The_barBEARian said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Bruh.... what are you talking about?

Trump is the one guy not assaulting democracy.

Biden and the uniparty are the ones doing that. My proof that they stole the last election is their complete unwillingness to do anything to improve our election integrity.

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The_barBEARian said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Bruh.... what are you talking about?

Trump is the one guy not assaulting democracy.

Biden and the uniparty are the ones doing that. My proof that they stole the last election is their complete unwillingness to do anything to improve our election integrity.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Yes, there are a number of countries around the world that significantly impinge on Christianity in the guise of "regulation." But that wasn't the point. I took issue with your absurd position that Putin was an "ally" of Christianity. If by "ally" you mean he allows Christians to merely exist, well, sure, so long as of course they confine their beliefs to themselves and live in Russia (Ukraine is apparently a different matter altogether).

You're not willing to support Trump, but you will vociferously defend and support Putin for being a cultural ally. Is it because you are ethnocentric and only care about policies that personally affect you? Don't give a **** about the average every day Russian? We already know you couldn't give two ****s about the average Ukrainian, of course, so perhaps that's the case.

I would submit anyone who thinks there is any real danger Trump is going to overthrow democracy in our country is either a moron, or is all up in their emotions. There literally is zero chance Trump could come close to doing any of the things your little buddy Putin has done in Russia. Yet, you don't appear to care very much about winning the culture war here.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

So alleged US meddling on Russian borders justifies political imprisonment and assassinations, severe crackdowns on free speech, religious persecution, cyber terrorism, and invading your sovereign neighbors?

LOL. Again I ask, when did you become such an anti-American Russian shill? When was it and what caused it?

---

I didn't become anything. Anyone who criticizes the American imperium will always be name-called by the warmongers and jingoes. You called me worse than that during the Iraq war, until you figured out I was right. It's par for the course.

---

That might be the case if you weren't a warmonger yourself. But the problem is, you ARE a warmonger. You don't have a problem with Russian military interventionism and bloodletting in surrounding countries. You don't have a problem with Russian invading and killing civilian populations. In fact, you will go to great lengths to defend such behavior as Christian (which, incidentally, it doesn't sound like you're much of a Christian either).

Your position was correct in Iraq, we agree. But it appears something has changed, or that your true beliefs have been exposed. It doesn't appear to be war and the death and destruction it has wrought you have a problem with, but instead, America.

So again I ask: what happened? When did it happen? Or has it always been there?

---

Russia is not "killing civilian populations." They're acting deliberately and with the least amount of force required at each step, while it is we who insist on prolonging the death and destruction.

---

Complete and total horse ***** I posted more than a dozen instances of them either shelling or targeting civilian areas in another thread. They're a hell of a lot more indiscriminate than we were in Iraq.

But in either regard, in typical Sam Lowry fashion, this is you cherry-picking what you want to address while ignoring the overall point. Let's put aside the fact more than 10k Ukrainian civilians have died since the war began and pretend Russia isn't targeting civilian populations. The fact is, you are still on board with Russian military interventionism, invasion and bloodletting in surrounding countries while criticizing America for similar conduct.

You're a hypocrite and war monger of the tallest order.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Yes, there are a number of countries around the world that significantly impinge on Christianity in the guise of "regulation." But that wasn't the point. I took issue with your absurd position that Putin was an "ally" of Christianity. If by "ally" you mean he allows Christians to merely exist, well, sure, so long as of course they confine their beliefs to themselves and live in Russia (Ukraine is apparently a different matter altogether).

You're not willing to support Trump, but you will vociferously defend and support Putin for being a cultural ally. Is it because you are ethnocentric and only care about policies that personally affect you? Don't give a **** about the average every day Russian? We already know you couldn't give two ****s about the average Ukrainian, of course, so perhaps that's the case.

I would submit anyone who thinks there is any real danger Trump is going to overthrow democracy in our country is either a moron, or is all up in their emotions. There literally is zero chance Trump could come close to doing any of the things your little buddy Putin has done in Russia. Yet, you don't appear to care very much about winning the culture war here.

---

Putin's policy is to encourage Christianity, not just tolerate it. I certainly care more about the average Russian or Ukrainian than most here, which is one reason I don't presume to impose our will on them. I also care about the culture war, but unlike you I'm not a single-issue voter.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

So alleged US meddling on Russian borders justifies political imprisonment and assassinations, severe crackdowns on free speech, religious persecution, cyber terrorism, and invading your sovereign neighbors?

LOL. Again I ask, when did you become such an anti-American Russian shill? When was it and what caused it?

---

I didn't become anything. Anyone who criticizes the American imperium will always be name-called by the warmongers and jingoes. You called me worse than that during the Iraq war, until you figured out I was right. It's par for the course.

---

That might be the case if you weren't a warmonger yourself. But the problem is, you ARE a warmonger. You don't have a problem with Russian military interventionism and bloodletting in surrounding countries. You don't have a problem with Russian invading and killing civilian populations. In fact, you will go to great lengths to defend such behavior as Christian (which, incidentally, it doesn't sound like you're much of a Christian either).

Your position was correct in Iraq, we agree. But it appears something has changed, or that your true beliefs have been exposed. It doesn't appear to be war and the death and destruction it has wrought you have a problem with, but instead, America.

So again I ask: what happened? When did it happen? Or has it always been there?

---

Russia is not "killing civilian populations." They're acting deliberately and with the least amount of force required at each step, while it is we who insist on prolonging the death and destruction.

---

Complete and total horse ***** I posted more than a dozen instances of them either shelling or targeting civilian areas in another thread. They're a hell of a lot more indiscriminate than we were in Iraq.

But in either regard, in typical Sam Lowry fashion, this is you cherry-picking what you want to address while ignoring the overall point. Let's put aside the fact more than 10k Ukrainian civilians have died since the war began and pretend Russia isn't targeting civilian populations. The fact is, you are still on board with Russian military interventionism, invasion and bloodletting in surrounding countries while criticizing America for similar conduct.

You're a hypocrite and war monger of the tallest order.

---

All wars have civilian casualties. There are two ways of evaluating them. One is to look at all the available information, including UN reports, and try to discern whether civilian deaths are intentional or excessive. The other is to post anecdotes for the emotional effect and shriek loudly at anyone who questions them. We'll have to disagree as to which is better.

If we are in fact putting aside the in bello issues, I can only say it's about time. I've been trying for weeks to explain that they are separate from the invasion itself. But I'll believe it when I see it.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Yes, there are a number of countries around the world that significantly impinge on Christianity in the guise of "regulation." But that wasn't the point. I took issue with your absurd position that Putin was an "ally" of Christianity. If by "ally" you mean he allows Christians to merely exist, well, sure, so long as of course they confine their beliefs to themselves and live in Russia (Ukraine is apparently a different matter altogether).

You're not willing to support Trump, but you will vociferously defend and support Putin for being a cultural ally. Is it because you are ethnocentric and only care about policies that personally affect you? Don't give a **** about the average every day Russian? We already know you couldn't give two ****s about the average Ukrainian, of course, so perhaps that's the case.

I would submit anyone who thinks there is any real danger Trump is going to overthrow democracy in our country is either a moron, or is all up in their emotions. There literally is zero chance Trump could come close to doing any of the things your little buddy Putin has done in Russia. Yet, you don't appear to care very much about winning the culture war here.

---

Putin's policy is to encourage Christianity, not just tolerate it. I certainly care more about the average Russian or Ukrainian than most here, which is one reason I don't presume to impose our will on them. I also care about the culture war, but unlike you I'm not a single-issue voter.

---

Had no idea you were this glib when it comes to Christianity. Putin doesn't encourage Christianity. He encourages Russian Orthodoxy because it is in lock step with him and blesses his agenda. As for actual Christianity, Putin has a long history of repressing it.

Based on this thread, I am not so sure you care about anyone but Sam Lowry, but let's pretend you do care about Russians or Ukrainians for a moment. One can be consistent on war and non-interventionism without imposing one's will on another people. For instance, I am probably pretty close to you on our support for the Ukraine war. But I can also recognize the only consistent position for a Christian and Just War adherent is to be against the Russian aggression and invasion. That is not imposing my will on anyone. It is the opposite.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

So alleged US meddling on Russian borders justifies political imprisonment and assassinations, severe crackdowns on free speech, religious persecution, cyber terrorism, and invading your sovereign neighbors?

LOL. Again I ask, when did you become such an anti-American Russian shill? When was it and what caused it?

---

I didn't become anything. Anyone who criticizes the American imperium will always be name-called by the warmongers and jingoes. You called me worse than that during the Iraq war, until you figured out I was right. It's par for the course.

---

That might be the case if you weren't a warmonger yourself. But the problem is, you ARE a warmonger. You don't have a problem with Russian military interventionism and bloodletting in surrounding countries. You don't have a problem with Russian invading and killing civilian populations. In fact, you will go to great lengths to defend such behavior as Christian (which, incidentally, it doesn't sound like you're much of a Christian either).

Your position was correct in Iraq, we agree. But it appears something has changed, or that your true beliefs have been exposed. It doesn't appear to be war and the death and destruction it has wrought you have a problem with, but instead, America.

So again I ask: what happened? When did it happen? Or has it always been there?

---

Russia is not "killing civilian populations." They're acting deliberately and with the least amount of force required at each step, while it is we who insist on prolonging the death and destruction.

---

Complete and total horse ***** I posted more than a dozen instances of them either shelling or targeting civilian areas in another thread. They're a hell of a lot more indiscriminate than we were in Iraq.

But in either regard, in typical Sam Lowry fashion, this is you cherry-picking what you want to address while ignoring the overall point. Let's put aside the fact more than 10k Ukrainian civilians have died since the war began and pretend Russia isn't targeting civilian populations. The fact is, you are still on board with Russian military interventionism, invasion and bloodletting in surrounding countries while criticizing America for similar conduct.

You're a hypocrite and war monger of the tallest order.

---

All wars have civilian casualties. There are two ways of evaluating them. One is to look at all the available information, including UN reports, and try to discern whether civilian deaths are intentional or excessive. The other is to post anecdotes for the emotional effect and shriek loudly at anyone who questions them. We'll have to disagree as to which is better.

If we are in fact putting aside the in bello issues, I can only say it's about time. I've been trying for weeks to explain that they are separate from the invasion itself. But I'll believe it when I see it.

---

The irony is, the numerous instances of Russia targeting civilian populations that I posted in the other thread were all from UN, American Red Cross and Amnesty Int'l reports, as opposed to "anecdotes." But ok.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Yes, there are a number of countries around the world that significantly impinge on Christianity in the guise of "regulation." But that wasn't the point. I took issue with your absurd position that Putin was an "ally" of Christianity. If by "ally" you mean he allows Christians to merely exist, well, sure, so long as of course they confine their beliefs to themselves and live in Russia (Ukraine is apparently a different matter altogether).

You're not willing to support Trump, but you will vociferously defend and support Putin for being a cultural ally. Is it because you are ethnocentric and only care about policies that personally affect you? Don't give a **** about the average every day Russian? We already know you couldn't give two ****s about the average Ukrainian, of course, so perhaps that's the case.

I would submit anyone who thinks there is any real danger Trump is going to overthrow democracy in our country is either a moron, or is all up in their emotions. There literally is zero chance Trump could come close to doing any of the things your little buddy Putin has done in Russia. Yet, you don't appear to care very much about winning the culture war here.

---

Putin's policy is to encourage Christianity, not just tolerate it. I certainly care more about the average Russian or Ukrainian than most here, which is one reason I don't presume to impose our will on them. I also care about the culture war, but unlike you I'm not a single-issue voter.

---

Had no idea you were this glib when it comes to Christianity. Putin doesn't encourage Christianity. He encourages Russian Orthodoxy because it is in lock step with him and blesses his agenda. As for actual Christianity, Putin has a long history of repressing it.

Based on this thread, I am not so sure you care about anyone but Sam Lowry, but let's pretend you do care about Russians or Ukrainians for a moment. One can be consistent on war and non-interventionism without imposing one's will on another people. For instance, I am probably pretty close to you on our support for the Ukraine war. But I can also recognize the only consistent position for a Christian and Just War adherent is to be against the Russian aggression and invasion. That is not imposing my will on anyone. It is the opposite.

---

This may come as news to right-wing fundamentalists, but Russian Orthodoxy is part of actual Christianity.

If you want to make a plausible argument against Russia based on Just War doctrine, feel free. But understand that you have to make your case in the context of all the dealings between Russia and the West in recent decades. As long as you're in denial about that history, it's just empty ranting.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

So alleged US meddling on Russian borders justifies political imprisonment and assassinations, severe crackdowns on free speech, religious persecution, cyber terrorism, and invading your sovereign neighbors?

LOL. Again I ask, when did you become such an anti-American Russian shill? When was it and what caused it?

---

I didn't become anything. Anyone who criticizes the American imperium will always be name-called by the warmongers and jingoes. You called me worse than that during the Iraq war, until you figured out I was right. It's par for the course.

---

That might be the case if you weren't a warmonger yourself. But the problem is, you ARE a warmonger. You don't have a problem with Russian military interventionism and bloodletting in surrounding countries. You don't have a problem with Russian invading and killing civilian populations. In fact, you will go to great lengths to defend such behavior as Christian (which, incidentally, it doesn't sound like you're much of a Christian either).

Your position was correct in Iraq, we agree. But it appears something has changed, or that your true beliefs have been exposed. It doesn't appear to be war and the death and destruction it has wrought you have a problem with, but instead, America.

So again I ask: what happened? When did it happen? Or has it always been there?

---

Russia is not "killing civilian populations." They're acting deliberately and with the least amount of force required at each step, while it is we who insist on prolonging the death and destruction.

---

Complete and total horse ***** I posted more than a dozen instances of them either shelling or targeting civilian areas in another thread. They're a hell of a lot more indiscriminate than we were in Iraq.

But in either regard, in typical Sam Lowry fashion, this is you cherry-picking what you want to address while ignoring the overall point. Let's put aside the fact more than 10k Ukrainian civilians have died since the war began and pretend Russia isn't targeting civilian populations. The fact is, you are still on board with Russian military interventionism, invasion and bloodletting in surrounding countries while criticizing America for similar conduct.

You're a hypocrite and war monger of the tallest order.

---

All wars have civilian casualties. There are two ways of evaluating them. One is to look at all the available information, including UN reports, and try to discern whether civilian deaths are intentional or excessive. The other is to post anecdotes for the emotional effect and shriek loudly at anyone who questions them. We'll have to disagree as to which is better.

If we are in fact putting aside the in bello issues, I can only say it's about time. I've been trying for weeks to explain that they are separate from the invasion itself. But I'll believe it when I see it.

---

The irony is, the numerous instances of Russia targeting civilian populations that I posted in the other thread were all from UN, American Red Cross and Amnesty Int'l reports, as opposed to "anecdotes." But ok.

---

And all cherry-picked, misinterpreted, or over-interpreted by you, often contrary to the source's actual conclusions.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Yes, there are a number of countries around the world that significantly impinge on Christianity in the guise of "regulation." But that wasn't the point. I took issue with your absurd position that Putin was an "ally" of Christianity. If by "ally" you mean he allows Christians to merely exist, well, sure, so long as of course they confine their beliefs to themselves and live in Russia (Ukraine is apparently a different matter altogether).

You're not willing to support Trump, but you will vociferously defend and support Putin for being a cultural ally. Is it because you are ethnocentric and only care about policies that personally affect you? Don't give a **** about the average every day Russian? We already know you couldn't give two ****s about the average Ukrainian, of course, so perhaps that's the case.

I would submit anyone who thinks there is any real danger Trump is going to overthrow democracy in our country is either a moron, or is all up in their emotions. There literally is zero chance Trump could come close to doing any of the things your little buddy Putin has done in Russia. Yet, you don't appear to care very much about winning the culture war here.

---

Putin's policy is to encourage Christianity, not just tolerate it. I certainly care more about the average Russian or Ukrainian than most here, which is one reason I don't presume to impose our will on them. I also care about the culture war, but unlike you I'm not a single-issue voter.

---

Had no idea you were this glib when it comes to Christianity. Putin doesn't encourage Christianity. He encourages Russian Orthodoxy because it is in lock step with him and blesses his agenda. As for actual Christianity, Putin has a long history of repressing it.

Based on this thread, I am not so sure you care about anyone but Sam Lowry, but let's pretend you do care about Russians or Ukrainians for a moment. One can be consistent on war and non-interventionism without imposing one's will on another people. For instance, I am probably pretty close to you on our support for the Ukraine war. But I can also recognize the only consistent position for a Christian and Just War adherent is to be against the Russian aggression and invasion. That is not imposing my will on anyone. It is the opposite.

---

This may come as news to right-wing fundamentalists, but Russian Orthodoxy is part of actual Christianity.

If you want to make a plausible argument against Russia based on Just War doctrine, feel free. But understand that you have to make your case in the context of all the dealings between Russia and the West in recent decades. As long as you're in denial about that history, it's just empty ranting.

---

Honestly, I am not sure you understand what actual Christianity is, my friend. You've consistently demonstrated on other threads over the years that you don't agree with even its most basic tenets (i.e. grace). I am still hoping you will have a "come to Jesus" moment like Martin Luther.

But putting that aside, I don't disagree with you that Russian Orthodoxy is a Christian sect. And I do appreciate that they reject the erroneous and un-Biblical Catholic doctrine of infallibility of the pope and consider their own patriarchs as human and thus subject to error. However, unfortunately, the Russian Orthodoxy simply does not encompass all Christianity, and has unfortunately behaved in a similar manner to the Christian evangelicals that you decry by embracing and condoning the illicit and evil actions of Putin. And even they are prevented by Putin from evangelizing.

As I said, Putin is no ally of Christianity. Never has been.

I've already made plausible arguments in opposition to your thin attempts to justify the Russian invasion, which quite frankly, have been soundly and thoroughly refuted. I of course understand why you will protest. It's what you do when you have no good arguments in support of your position.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

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Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

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Yes, there are a number of countries around the world that significantly impinge on Christianity in the guise of "regulation." But that wasn't the point. I took issue with your absurd position that Putin was an "ally" of Christianity. If by "ally" you mean he allows Christians to merely exist, well, sure, so long as of course they confine their beliefs to themselves and live in Russia (Ukraine is apparently a different matter altogether).

You're not willing to support Trump, but you will vociferously defend and support Putin for being a cultural ally. Is it because you are ethnocentric and only care about policies that personally affect you? Don't give a **** about the average every day Russian? We already know you couldn't give two ****s about the average Ukrainian, of course, so perhaps that's the case.

I would submit anyone who thinks there is any real danger Trump is going to overthrow democracy in our country is either a moron, or is all up in their emotions. There literally is zero chance Trump could come close to doing any of the things your little buddy Putin has done in Russia. Yet, you don't appear to care very much about winning the culture war here.

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Putin's policy is to encourage Christianity, not just tolerate it. I certainly care more about the average Russian or Ukrainian than most here, which is one reason I don't presume to impose our will on them. I also care about the culture war, but unlike you I'm not a single-issue voter.

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Had no idea you were this glib when it comes to Christianity. Putin doesn't encourage Christianity. He encourages Russian Orthodoxy because it is in lock step with him and blesses his agenda. As for actual Christianity, Putin has a long history of repressing it.

Based on this thread, I am not so sure you care about anyone but Sam Lowry, but let's pretend you do care about Russians or Ukrainians for a moment. One can be consistent on war and non-interventionism without imposing one's will on another people. For instance, I am probably pretty close to you on our support for the Ukraine war. But I can also recognize the only consistent position for a Christian and Just War adherent is to be against the Russian aggression and invasion. That is not imposing my will on anyone. It is the opposite.

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This may come as news to right-wing fundamentalists, but Russian Orthodoxy is part of actual Christianity.

If you want to make a plausible argument against Russia based on Just War doctrine, feel free. But understand that you have to make your case in the context of all the dealings between Russia and the West in recent decades. As long as you're in denial about that history, it's just empty ranting.

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Honestly, I am not sure you understand what actual Christianity is, my friend. You've consistently demonstrated on other threads over the years that you don't agree with even its most basic tenets (i.e. grace). I am still hoping you will have a "come to Jesus" moment like Martin Luther.

But putting that aside, I don't disagree with you that Russian Orthodoxy is a Christian sect. And I do appreciate that they reject the erroneous and un-Biblical Catholic doctrine of infallibility of the pope and consider their own patriarchs as human and thus subject to error. However, unfortunately, the Russian Orthodoxy simply does not encompass all Christianity, and has unfortunately behaved in a similar manner to the Christian evangelicals that you decry by embracing and condoning the illicit and evil actions of Putin. And even they are prevented by Putin from evangelizing.

As I said, Putin is no ally of Christianity. Never has been.

I've already made plausible arguments in opposition to your thin attempts to justify the Russian invasion, which quite frankly, have been soundly and thoroughly refuted. I of course understand why you will protest. It's what you do when you have no good arguments in support of your position.

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Of course I believe the tenets of Christianity. I don't "decry" evangelicals, nor would I refuse to consider them allies despite their errors (and even some theocratic tendencies, which they share with the ROC and others).

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Sam Lowry said:

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We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

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Queue a DC puff piece on Schumer, McConnell, and others “getting things done” aka racking up death-spiraling debt https://t.co/xSaQRqCARE

— Chip Roy (@chiproytx) April 25, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

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Queue a DC puff piece on Schumer, McConnell, and others “getting things done” aka racking up death-spiraling debt https://t.co/xSaQRqCARE

— Chip Roy (@chiproytx) April 25, 2024

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Opposing the war in Iraq: "pro-Saddam"

Opposing War on Terror spying: "pro-Terrorist"

Opposing regime change in Syria: "pro-Assad"

Opposing funding of war in Ukraine: "pro-Putin"

Opposing US-funded Israeli war in Gaza: "pro-Hamas"

Same tawdry neocon tactics over and over.💣

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) April 25, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

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Opposing the war in Iraq: "pro-Saddam"

Opposing War on Terror spying: "pro-Terrorist"

Opposing regime change in Syria: "pro-Assad"

Opposing funding of war in Ukraine: "pro-Putin"

Opposing US-funded Israeli war in Gaza: "pro-Hamas"

Same tawdry neocon tactics over and over.💣

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) April 25, 2024

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Redbrickbear said:

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Queue a DC puff piece on Schumer, McConnell, and others “getting things done” aka racking up death-spiraling debt https://t.co/xSaQRqCARE

— Chip Roy (@chiproytx) April 25, 2024

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

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Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

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The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

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Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

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If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

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If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

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They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

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I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

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Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

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The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

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Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

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Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

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Because your last sentence is patently false,

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No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

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An even better question is, why defend them?

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Because in many ways Putin is more of an ally to Christianity than our Western regimes. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think that's part of why he's so hated.

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I'm glad you tried to insert some comedy into the debate . . . .

Russia's War Against Evangelicals
IDEAS
BY PETER POMERANTSEV
APRIL 20, 2024 6:00 AM EDT
Pomerantsev's new book is How to Win an Information War: The Propagandist Who Outwitted Hitler. He is also the author of This is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality. He is a Senior Fellow at SNF Agora Institute, Johns Hopkins University.

After they beat Azat Azatyan so bad blood came out of his ears; after they sent electric shocks up his genitals; after they wacked him with pipes and truncheons, the Russians began to interrogate him about his faith. "When did you become a Baptist? When did you become an American spy?" Azat tried to explain that in Ukraine there was freedom of religion, you could just choose your faith. But his torturers saw the world the same way as their predecessors at the KGB did: an American church is just a front for the American state.
Azat was dragged back to the makeshift cell in the occupied city of Berdiansk, in southern Ukraine, where he was held with six others in a cellar that had a bucket for a toilet and hard mattresses on the floor. The other inmates wondered how he could be religious when the punishments meted out to him were so much worse than to them. Azat answered he felt God was always with him. He prayed for the other inmates to be spared. When the torturers returned they left the others alone but told him to come with them: "This time we will kill you."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is accompanied with a strategic effort to repress, control, and crush religious groups outside of the Kremlin controlled Moscow Patriarchate, the Russian Orthodox Church. There are over thirty cases of religious clergy killed and kidnapped. 109 known cases of interrogations, forced expulsions, imprisonments, arrests. 600 houses of worship destroyed. And these are just the confirmed numbers, with the real ones in information blackout of the occupied territories will much likely be higher.
Evangelicals are targeted by the Russians disproportionally, and Azat's story is typical for Russia's systemic persecution of Protestants in occupied Ukraine. Protestants were the victims of 34 percent of the reported persecution events, and 48 percent in the Zaporizhzhia region where Azat was held. Baptists made up 13 percent of victims the largest single group after Ukrainian Orthodox. Under Russian control 400 Baptist congregations have been lost, 17% of the total in Ukraine.
There's a reason for this. Protestants flourished in the democratic decades since the end of the U.S.S.R. Baptists are the third largest denomination in Ukraine. The mayor of Kyiv between 2006-2012 was an evangelical. And for the Russian occupiers they are perceived as agents of America.
Petro Dudnyk, Pastor of the Good News Church, explains that the occupying forces "thought and spoke like this: you are the American faith, the Americans are our enemies, the enemies must be destroyed." Inside Russia Jehovah's Witnesses are banned, as is missionary work for Mormons. Evangelical groups are constrained by laws banning missionary activity and labelling some groups as "undesirable organizations." The U.S. Congress Commission on International Religious Freedom considers Russia as one of the world's "worst violators" of religious freedom, on par with Iran and Pakistan.
What this persecution highlights is that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is more than just the latest iteration of the Kremlin's centuries old attempt to crush Ukraine's freedom. It is also part of the Kremlin's larger war against America. By hurting those who practice an "American" religion the Kremlin can claim it is striking against American powerwhile picking on the powerless.


The Russian persecution of Protestants is pursued through intimidation, expropriation, enforced conversion, and even murder.
"Your church has no right to exist, as it has connections with America and other Western countries," Russian authorities told the deacon of the Pentecostal church in Nova Kakhovka, Oleksandr Prokopchuk. They arrested him and his 19-year-old son. Both were later found dead in a forest. In occupied Sloviansk four members of the Evangelical Church of the Transformation were accused of being American spies because some U.S. dollars were found in their pockets. They were subsequently shot and killed.
But it's not just individual clergy Russian forces go after, sometimes it's whole congregations. As soon as Russia take over a city armed men turn up during prayers. The investigative news outlet, The Counter-Offensive, has reported on the fate of an Adventist congregation in Donetsk, where, the pastor explains, "every week or two there were searches. People would come with machine guns. Sometimes a tank would come. …they said, 'You are Americans, this is an American church, this is not [a Russian] church. We were treated like dogs. They beat us. Some were killed. Some disappeared."
When Russian occupying forces shut down the Melitopol Christian Church, they used sledge hammers to break into the building. Members were interrogated as to whether the church was hiding any Americans. The house of worship was expropriated and given to a Russian Ministry. Its fifty foot cross was chopped down. Click here for video.
Sometimes the Russians also try to "cure" protestants. Viktor Cherniiavskyi, was held for 25 days, beaten with a baseball bat and given electro-shocks. A Russian Orthodox priest was present in this process, and tried to cast demons out of him for being an evangelical Christian. The torturers used a taser to help the exorcism along.
The way the priest and the torturer worked together is emblematic of the interconnection between the Russian state and the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate. The Moscow Patriarch, Kirill, who was reportedly a KGB agent in the 1970s, has vociferously supported the invasion of Ukraine, openly backs the destruction of Ukraine's sovereignty and promises Russian soldiers their sins will be washed away. When Russian forces accuse evangelicals of being agents of the U.S. they are projecting how the Moscow patriarchate aids and abets Putin. The tradition of priests working for spy agencies continues with Orthodox priests in Ukraine who report to the Moscow Patriarch have also been found guilty of reporting directly to the Russian security services.
Only 4% of Ukrainians Patriarch remain faithful to Kirill's Moscow Patriarchatethe vast majority have moved to the Orthodox Church under the Kyiv Patriarchate. Moreover 85% of Ukrainians think that the Moscow branch of the Orthodox Church is a security threat. The Ukrainian Parliament is considering a bill that would prohibit religious organisations that are controlled from a country waging armed aggression against Ukraine. Steven Moore, a former Republican strategist who now runs a center documenting religious crimes in Ukraine, compares the approach to the struggle to legislate against TikTok in the US. According to Moore "Congress wants to ban TikTok unless it gets new ownership. The parliament of Ukraine has drafted a bill to close individual churches affiliated with Russia unless they find 'new ownership' and renounce the Russian affiliation."
But such nuance is lost on some lawmakers and media in America, such as Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson, who accuse the Ukrainian government of attacking religious freedom. It's a twisted situation thinks Moore: while Russia literally murders and tortures Protestants, Ukraine is attacked for trying to find a balance between religious freedom and security.


When I asked Azat about Americans who think Russia a bastion of Christianity while Ukraine persecutes Christians he shook his head in bemusement: "The Russians have come here to kill and oppressthat is against God's law, let alone human law."
Altogether Azat spent 43 days in captivity. I asked him how his faith had helped him through the ordeal. He described one moment in particular. After a night of torture so bad he couldn't walk any more. He lay on the floor of his cell, desperate for water. But there was none in the cell. At that moment it began to raina rare occurrence in the stifling summer of Berdyansk. Azat managed to rip a plastic tube from the wall and use it to funnel water from the narrow basement window. As he drank it in it felt like God had answered his prayer.
When we spoke Azat was in Zaporizhzhia, where he now works as a Baptist Children's Pastor and founded a children's centre, Garne Misce. Zaporizhzhia is near the front lines, and is under constant bombardment from Russia, partly due to stalled military support for Ukraine. For the moment the children have warm, bright rooms for study and play.
I asked Azat what life was like for Baptists still inside the occupied territories. Some, he said, meet in secret, in peoples' apartments. This is how the evangelical movement first developed in the Soviet Union. Other get the 'choice': they can keep their congregations if they collaborate and give speeches praising Putin, supporting the invasion. "That's what the Kremlin fears about Protestants- we follow God's law, not theirs. But they want to have everything under their control."

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Mothra said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. Absolutely insane.

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic.

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them.

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church

---

Why?

You guys never spoke up for or cared about the Middle Eastern Christians who got wiped out by 20 years of endless interventions in the that part of the world.

I have never heard you say a negative word about Bush and his wars of choice that did this…

Iraq Christians in 2001: 1.5 million

Iraq Christians in 2020: 150,000

Total destruction of their community by the lords of the universe in DC

[In 2022, Christian leaders report that the number of Christians has dropped from a pre-2003 estimate of fewer than 1.5 million to 150,000.]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Iraq

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You don't care about Iraqi Christians, it's just another data point you can use to take a pot shot.

.

---

And of course you and the interventionists are the ones who really care right?

Invading and bombing their country (and unleashing Islamist terrorism) is NOT showing that you care about these Iraq Christians.

Your approach in Eastern Europe is likely to be the same story of blood and misery for the Christians there….

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I was responding to a poster and others who are elevating Russia as some bastion of a Christian nation so far as arguing Just War, and defending the manipulation of the church.

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Honestly, it is incredible to me the transformation that has taken place among American conservatives. The pendulum has swung so far from the neo-conservative position that we have conservatives who now espouse a traditional leftist ideology, where America is the great enemy of peace in the world. I wonder how much the conservatives on this thread realize they sound like good little leftist Noam Chomsky adherents.

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

$500 from every family in America to Ukraine is "not a whole lot of money" in Mitch's book.

For context, roughly half of Americans do not have $500 for an emergency.https://t.co/cRlvCCQFNS

— Peter St Onge, Ph.D. (@profstonge) April 25, 2024

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

$500 from every family in America to Ukraine is "not a whole lot of money" in Mitch's book.

For context, roughly half of Americans do not have $500 for an emergency.https://t.co/cRlvCCQFNS

— Peter St Onge, Ph.D. (@profstonge) April 25, 2024

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

---

Putin's close association with the Orthodox Church is like Modi and the BJP and its association with Hinduism/Hindutva

Both are looking for legitimacy but neither are trying to establish an actual theocracy unlike places like Iran or Afghanistan


[For Indian nationalists, it has subsumed "religious sentiments and public rituals into a larger discourse of national culture (Bharatiya culture) and the Hindu nation, Hindu rashtra", states Hansen.[116] This notion has appealed to the masses in part because it "connects meaningfully with everyday anxieties of security, a sense of disorder" in modern Indian life.[116] The BJP has deployed the Hindutva theme in its election campaign since early 1991, as well as nominated candidates who are affiliated with organisations that support the Hindutva ideology]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

---

Putin's close association with the Orthodox Church is like Modi and the BJP and its association with Hinduism/Hindutva

Both are looking for legitimacy but neither are trying to establish an actual theocracy unlike places like Iran or Afghanistan


[For Indian nationalists, it has subsumed "religious sentiments and public rituals into a larger discourse of national culture (Bharatiya culture) and the Hindu nation, Hindu rashtra", states Hansen.[116] This notion has appealed to the masses in part because it "connects meaningfully with everyday anxieties of security, a sense of disorder" in modern Indian life.[116] The BJP has deployed the Hindutva theme in its election campaign since early 1991, as well as nominated candidates who are affiliated with organisations that support the Hindutva ideology]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva

---

No, it's not. First, local/state politics are much more powerful in India than anything in Russia. They have a wide range of political party participation that varies state to state, and that applies to religious influence as well, especially Muslim. Hinduism is also a variant religion with many subsects, so there's also that. Finally, this cultural and political diversity also fits in with the language variants by state, as well as the reality human mobility inter-India is no where close to countries even like Russia.

Hindu Nationalism is more of an external projection toward Pakistan primarily in their rivalry.

---

As Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his acolytes systematically weaken India’s democratic institutions, they are reshaping the country into a democracy only in name and an electoral autocracy in practice, writes @Ram_Guha. https://t.co/QELWmI2N4C

— Foreign Affairs (@ForeignAffairs) April 21, 2024

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

$500 from every family in America to Ukraine is "not a whole lot of money" in Mitch's book.

For context, roughly half of Americans do not have $500 for an emergency.https://t.co/cRlvCCQFNS

— Peter St Onge, Ph.D. (@profstonge) April 25, 2024

---

$16,000 per family for entitlements.

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

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If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

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Great point

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Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

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You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

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While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

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There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

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The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

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Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

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If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

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If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

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They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

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You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

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I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

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Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

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The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

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Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

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Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

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Because your last sentence is patently false,

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No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

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Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

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Putin's close association with the Orthodox Church is like Modi and the BJP and its association with Hinduism/Hindutva

Both are looking for legitimacy but neither are trying to establish an actual theocracy unlike places like Iran or Afghanistan


[For Indian nationalists, it has subsumed "religious sentiments and public rituals into a larger discourse of national culture (Bharatiya culture) and the Hindu nation, Hindu rashtra", states Hansen.[116] This notion has appealed to the masses in part because it "connects meaningfully with everyday anxieties of security, a sense of disorder" in modern Indian life.[116] The BJP has deployed the Hindutva theme in its election campaign since early 1991, as well as nominated candidates who are affiliated with organisations that support the Hindutva ideology]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva

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No, it's not. First, local/state politics are much more powerful in India than anything in Russia. They have a wide range of political party participation that varies state to state, and that applies to religious influence as well, especially Muslim. Hinduism is also a variant religion with many subsects, so there's also that. Finally, this cultural and political diversity also fits in with the language variants by state, as well as the reality human mobility inter-India is no where close to countries even like Russia.

Hindu Nationalism is more of an external projection toward Pakistan primarily in their rivalry.

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The Federalism of the Indian system is not really relevant to the aspersions of the Hindutva ideology.

(Not to mention that Russia of course is a Federal system as well-at least on paper)

Read the article…the point remains that what you dislike about inside of Putin's Russia is present inside of Modi's India

And neither are actual theocracies (both are looking for legitimacy and actually engaged in what they see as a "nation building campaign". India right now being far more successful at that than Russia…and for demographic reasons will be far more successful in the future

As Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his acolytes systematically weaken India’s democratic institutions, they are reshaping the country into a democracy only in name and an electoral autocracy in practice, writes @Ram_Guha. https://t.co/QELWmI2N4C

— Foreign Affairs (@ForeignAffairs) April 21, 2024

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