Sure. Russia would have settled for less than they've already taken. Ukraine will be lucky to keep anything east of the Dnieper now. Not to mention countless lives saved, no backfired sanctions, no huge loss of Western credibility, etc.FLBear5630 said:But using your strategy Ukraine rolled over 2 years ago because Russia is bigger. That is better?Sam Lowry said:Expect more of this. One of the fascinating things about America's military failures is how intensely we analyze them and develop creative ways to avoid learning anything. No takeaway is more enduring than "the results would have been different if only we'd done more of the same." When you see Whiterock parroting that one, you'll know the end is nigh.sombear said:
We no longer stand for freedom.Ukrainian forces so starved for artillery ammo they sometimes fire smoke rounds at advancing Russians. Near Bakhmut. @CNN @cnni @MarkHertling @CedricLeighton #Ukraine with @JosephAtaman @TarasovaMarkina https://t.co/i9APbKFYf8
— Frederik Pleitgen (@fpleitgenCNN) January 23, 2024
Why Are We in Ukraine?
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5859 Replies |
Last: 3 days ago by whiterock
It would not make a difference except to get more people killed. Nor do I believe Ukraine's military performance has been particularly good. Brave, to be sure, but they are not well trained at this point. Those who were died very early on.sombear said:They're getting outshot around 10 to 1 by estimates on both sides yet still fighting bravely and holding ground.Sam Lowry said:Expect more of this. One of the fascinating things about America's military failures is how intensely we analyze them and develop creative ways to avoid learning anything. No takeaway is more enduring than "the results would have been different if only we'd done more of the same." When you see Whiterock parroting that one, you'll know the end is nigh.sombear said:
We no longer stand for freedom.Ukrainian forces so starved for artillery ammo they sometimes fire smoke rounds at advancing Russians. Near Bakhmut. @CNN @cnni @MarkHertling @CedricLeighton #Ukraine with @JosephAtaman @TarasovaMarkina https://t.co/i9APbKFYf8
— Frederik Pleitgen (@fpleitgenCNN) January 23, 2024
Are you saying sending them more ammo and equipment would not make a difference? Or are you admitting the obvious (that it would) but just don't care? BTW the latter is not a rhetorical question. I know folks who will say straight up they just don't care. I respect their candor if nothing else.
I mean, even Russian millbloggers generally agree that Ukrainians badly outfight the Russians in battles where they are even close to even strength.
sombear said:They're getting outshot around 10 to 1 by estimates on both sides yet still fighting bravely and holding ground.Sam Lowry said:Expect more of this. One of the fascinating things about America's military failures is how intensely we analyze them and develop creative ways to avoid learning anything. No takeaway is more enduring than "the results would have been different if only we'd done more of the same." When you see Whiterock parroting that one, you'll know the end is nigh.sombear said:
We no longer stand for freedom.Ukrainian forces so starved for artillery ammo they sometimes fire smoke rounds at advancing Russians. Near Bakhmut. @CNN @cnni @MarkHertling @CedricLeighton #Ukraine with @JosephAtaman @TarasovaMarkina https://t.co/i9APbKFYf8
— Frederik Pleitgen (@fpleitgenCNN) January 23, 2024
Are you saying sending them more ammo and equipment would not make a difference? Or are you admitting the obvious (that it would) but just don't care? BTW the latter is not a rhetorical question. I know folks who will say straight up they just don't care. I respect their candor if nothing else.
I mean, even Russian millbloggers generally agree that Ukrainians badly outfight the Russians in battles where they are even close to even strength.
This is correct. Sam continues to show his idiocy.
Sam Lowry said:Sure. Russia would have settled for less than they've taken. Ukraine will be lucky to keep anything east of the Dnieper now. Not to mention countless lives saved, no backfired sanctions, no huge loss of Western credibility, etc.FLBear5630 said:But using your strategy Ukraine rolled over 2 years ago because Russia is bigger. That is better?Sam Lowry said:Expect more of this. One of the fascinating things about America's military failures is how intensely we analyze them and develop creative ways to avoid learning anything. No takeaway is more enduring than "the results would have been different if only we'd done more of the same." When you see Whiterock parroting that one, you'll know the end is nigh.sombear said:
We no longer stand for freedom.Ukrainian forces so starved for artillery ammo they sometimes fire smoke rounds at advancing Russians. Near Bakhmut. @CNN @cnni @MarkHertling @CedricLeighton #Ukraine with @JosephAtaman @TarasovaMarkina https://t.co/i9APbKFYf8
— Frederik Pleitgen (@fpleitgenCNN) January 23, 2024
Nope.
Biden's "defense of democracy" in Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan is not delivering. His approach intensifies conflicts without resolving them, while entangling the United States within them. And it's playing into Trump's hands. My thoughts in @TheAtlantic: https://t.co/BkurgEevBQ
— Stephen Wertheim (@stephenwertheim) January 23, 2024
Again, even Russian millbloggers disagree with you.Sam Lowry said:It would not make a difference except to get more people killed. Nor do I believe Ukraine's military performance has been particularly good. Brave, to be sure, but they are not well trained at this point. Those who were died very early on.sombear said:They're getting outshot around 10 to 1 by estimates on both sides yet still fighting bravely and holding ground.Sam Lowry said:Expect more of this. One of the fascinating things about America's military failures is how intensely we analyze them and develop creative ways to avoid learning anything. No takeaway is more enduring than "the results would have been different if only we'd done more of the same." When you see Whiterock parroting that one, you'll know the end is nigh.sombear said:
We no longer stand for freedom.Ukrainian forces so starved for artillery ammo they sometimes fire smoke rounds at advancing Russians. Near Bakhmut. @CNN @cnni @MarkHertling @CedricLeighton #Ukraine with @JosephAtaman @TarasovaMarkina https://t.co/i9APbKFYf8
— Frederik Pleitgen (@fpleitgenCNN) January 23, 2024
Are you saying sending them more ammo and equipment would not make a difference? Or are you admitting the obvious (that it would) but just don't care? BTW the latter is not a rhetorical question. I know folks who will say straight up they just don't care. I respect their candor if nothing else.
I mean, even Russian millbloggers generally agree that Ukrainians badly outfight the Russians in battles where they are even close to even strength.
I don't know who these bloggers are, but if they know how to fully train a 17-year-old in three weeks I'm sure Putin would love to hear from them.sombear said:Again, even Russian millbloggers disagree with you.Sam Lowry said:It would not make a difference except to get more people killed. Nor do I believe Ukraine's military performance has been particularly good. Brave, to be sure, but they are not well trained at this point. Those who were died very early on.sombear said:They're getting outshot around 10 to 1 by estimates on both sides yet still fighting bravely and holding ground.Sam Lowry said:Expect more of this. One of the fascinating things about America's military failures is how intensely we analyze them and develop creative ways to avoid learning anything. No takeaway is more enduring than "the results would have been different if only we'd done more of the same." When you see Whiterock parroting that one, you'll know the end is nigh.sombear said:
We no longer stand for freedom.Ukrainian forces so starved for artillery ammo they sometimes fire smoke rounds at advancing Russians. Near Bakhmut. @CNN @cnni @MarkHertling @CedricLeighton #Ukraine with @JosephAtaman @TarasovaMarkina https://t.co/i9APbKFYf8
— Frederik Pleitgen (@fpleitgenCNN) January 23, 2024
Are you saying sending them more ammo and equipment would not make a difference? Or are you admitting the obvious (that it would) but just don't care? BTW the latter is not a rhetorical question. I know folks who will say straight up they just don't care. I respect their candor if nothing else.
I mean, even Russian millbloggers generally agree that Ukrainians badly outfight the Russians in battles where they are even close to even strength.
It's a moot point. For whatever reason, they're running out of men. Russia has the initiative and won't give them time to recover.
You might be right. Nobody knows for sure. My folks are unusually pessimistic unfortunately. But I have not read much about manpower being the issue right now. It's ammo and equipment. And frustratingly, it's the type that is available and could quickly be sent. I'm not saying manpower will not become a major issue at some point.Sam Lowry said:I don't know who these bloggers are, but if they know how to fully train a 17-year-old in three weeks I'm sure Putin would love to hear from them.sombear said:Again, even Russian millbloggers disagree with you.Sam Lowry said:It would not make a difference except to get more people killed. Nor do I believe Ukraine's military performance has been particularly good. Brave, to be sure, but they are not well trained at this point. Those who were died very early on.sombear said:They're getting outshot around 10 to 1 by estimates on both sides yet still fighting bravely and holding ground.Sam Lowry said:Expect more of this. One of the fascinating things about America's military failures is how intensely we analyze them and develop creative ways to avoid learning anything. No takeaway is more enduring than "the results would have been different if only we'd done more of the same." When you see Whiterock parroting that one, you'll know the end is nigh.sombear said:
We no longer stand for freedom.Ukrainian forces so starved for artillery ammo they sometimes fire smoke rounds at advancing Russians. Near Bakhmut. @CNN @cnni @MarkHertling @CedricLeighton #Ukraine with @JosephAtaman @TarasovaMarkina https://t.co/i9APbKFYf8
— Frederik Pleitgen (@fpleitgenCNN) January 23, 2024
Are you saying sending them more ammo and equipment would not make a difference? Or are you admitting the obvious (that it would) but just don't care? BTW the latter is not a rhetorical question. I know folks who will say straight up they just don't care. I respect their candor if nothing else.
I mean, even Russian millbloggers generally agree that Ukrainians badly outfight the Russians in battles where they are even close to even strength.
It's a moot point. For whatever reason, they're running out of men. Russia has the initiative and won't give them time to recover.
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Orban should vote quickly and get this done before other NATO allies start to consider extraordinary methods to kick Hungary out and let Sweden in. https://t.co/vkL32z3psa
— Michael McFaul (@McFaul) January 24, 2024
The desperate and urgent maneuvering being done by the establishment wings of both parties trying to get $60 billion more for Ukraine is something you rarely see them doing when it comes to bill that would actually improve the lives of American citizens: https://t.co/eZxtDRQh27
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) January 25, 2024
Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Biden just wants to delay admitting defeat until after the election. He's the only one McConnell is helping. Maybe it's about keeping Trump out of office.Redbrickbear said:The desperate and urgent maneuvering being done by the establishment wings of both parties trying to get $60 billion more for Ukraine is something you rarely see them doing when it comes to bill that would actually improve the lives of American citizens: https://t.co/eZxtDRQh27
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) January 25, 2024
Putin has put out feelers to the US via indirect channels to signal he’s open to talks for ending Russia’s war in Ukraine, including potentially on future security arrangements for Ukraine, according to two people close to the Kremlin, @business reports. https://t.co/CTFhS5mieg
— Jennifer Jacobs (@JenniferJJacobs) January 25, 2024
I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Redbrickbear said:quash said:whiterock said:But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.Redbrickbear said:trey3216 said:Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:Doc Holliday said:White guilt is woke nonsense.trey3216 said:
Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.
Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.
Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.
There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?
Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.
Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.
Economics of war isn't new.a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:
— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023
if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i
So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?
Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".
About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"
It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays
I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.
I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)
It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses
Keep Ukraine out of NATO.
Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.
What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.
We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.
If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.
I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.
Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.
They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.
All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.
If only dead Ukrainians mattered. That $100B is largely being spent in places like Lima OH, where armored vehicles are partially built. Yet the Senator from Ohio is complaining about fraud...
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
quash said:Redbrickbear said:quash said:whiterock said:But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.Redbrickbear said:trey3216 said:Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:Doc Holliday said:White guilt is woke nonsense.trey3216 said:
Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.
Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.
Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.
There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?
Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.
Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.
Economics of war isn't new.a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:
— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023
if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i
So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?
Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".
About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"
It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays
I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.
I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)
It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses
Keep Ukraine out of NATO.
Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.
What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.
We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.
If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.
I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.
Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.
They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.
All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.
If only dead Ukrainians mattered. That $100B is largely being spent in places like Lima OH, where armored vehicles are partially built. Yet the Senator from Ohio is complaining about fraud...
1. Why is government spending now such a big part of our economy and how is that a good thing for the long term health of the USA?
[Government spending in the United States was last recorded at 37.0 percent of GDP in 2022]
2. You could just spend the money in Ohio and not fight a proxy war right... Would that not be theoretically possible?
Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
5 Ukrainian officials arrested over theft of $40 million in war funds as Ukraine corruption persists https://t.co/Z1u94DLA2o
— Fox News (@FoxNews) January 28, 2024
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-corrupt-officials-stole-40-million-meant-buy-106742837
The Big Guy is not happy about this! The Ukraine gravy train may get disrupted.
The Big Guy is not happy about this! The Ukraine gravy train may get disrupted.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
Why is this bad news?Redbrickbear said:5 Ukrainian officials arrested over theft of $40 million in war funds as Ukraine corruption persists https://t.co/Z1u94DLA2o
— Fox News (@FoxNews) January 28, 2024
I mean, everyone knows corruption is an issue . . . in all countries.
What distinguishes some countries from others is that some governments look the other way or worse, are part of it.
The problem in much of Eastern Europe (and Africa, South America, and the Middle East) is mass corruption at the highest levels of government.
Ukraine has arrested more in the last year than previous administration have in total. That is good news. And this article is about uncovering private sector corruption, which is even better news because it typically is more difficult to uncover in those countries.
I totally understand how this headline will be viewed by the pro-Russian crowd, but then again, many of them still think Putin is nothing more than a misunderstood Nazi hunter.
sombear said:Why is this bad news?Redbrickbear said:5 Ukrainian officials arrested over theft of $40 million in war funds as Ukraine corruption persists https://t.co/Z1u94DLA2o
— Fox News (@FoxNews) January 28, 2024
I mean, everyone knows corruption is an issue . . . in all countries.
What distinguishes some countries from others is that some governments look the other way or worse, are part of it.
The problem in much of Eastern Europe (and Africa, South America, and the Middle East) is mass corruption at the highest levels of government.
Ukraine has arrested more in the last year than previous administration have in total. That is good news. And this article is about uncovering private sector corruption, which is even better news because it typically is more difficult to uncover in those countries.
I totally understand how this headline will be viewed by the pro-Russian crowd, but then again, many of them still think Putin is nothing more than a misunderstood Nazi hunter.
Interesting perspective.
Probably the correct one.
+ 1
Biden's speech at the Atlantic Council. 1997
— ShanghaiPanda (@thinking_panda) February 26, 2023
"- And then the Russians tell me: "If you continue to expand NATO, we will make friends with China. Laughed and replied "good luck to you guys. If it doesn't work out with China, try Iran”
🤔🤔🤔pic.twitter.com/mQEGIKoQNh
Hungary is using NATO positions as part of its effort to stop EU cultural agendas.Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
And perhaps he's looking further down the road, calculating what he believes is most likely to happen (Russia outlasting Nato in Ukraine) and making appropriate recalibrations (a dynamic I have repeatedly pointed out to you....)
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
whiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
Checking in on the "liberal order" we are supposed to fight Russia over...
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/12/13/germany-afd-far-right-ban-populism/
[As of 2017, it was estimated that nine people per day were being arrested for online speech and other various thought crimes within the UK, with five leading to convictions. Some regulation of the Internet is coordinated through an online police presence.]
We didnt and the ones that were willing to fight are already dead.whiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
Now we are just fueling the extravagant lifestyles of the corrupt cowards and quislings who only want the free paychecks.
What will he say on the 99th day of January??boognish_bear said:
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
So now anything good is because he is running and anything bad is Biden...trey3216 said:What will he say on the 99th day of January??boognish_bear said:
He really has a set. But, that is why the Alpha-male society loves him.
Oops...put that Trump Truth Social tweet in the wrong thread...oh well
None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
A bit at a loss to understand how blind you are to the obvious non-sequitur. How do we solve the problem of left-wing intolerance in our own countries by letting autocratic regimes invade democratically elected governments elsewhere?Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
Checking in on the "liberal order" we are supposed to fight Russia over...
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/12/13/germany-afd-far-right-ban-populism/
[As of 2017, it was estimated that nine people per day were being arrested for online speech and other various thought crimes within the UK, with five leading to convictions. Some regulation of the Internet is coordinated through an online police presence.]
Are we ready to add Ukraine as another historic Biden / Obama III failure in an administration of historic failures? This was driven by a Russian agent and Hillary Clinton catalyzed by a left-wing media stupid and drunk on TDS?