sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.

Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.

---

But did the American people?

Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?

Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?

We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?

---

With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.

---

I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.

And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.

---

I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regard

---

Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.

The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.

ps

25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.

---

How do you know what that money was spent on?

Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"

Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?

Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"

Get real buddy....

People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people

---

Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.

---

Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.

And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.

It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)

Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.

And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices


https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799


If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.

---

Totally disagree. Particularly in the context of history, for a country that went virtually overnight from communist Soviet Union to sovereign nation then still in large part controlled by Russia years after, Ukraine's commitment to freedom and democracy and reduction in corruption have been exceedingly impressive.

---

Well I think its obvious that our rulers don't care if Ukraine is free, democratic, and non-corrupt.

Those are secondary concerns...if concerns at all.

What they care about is that Ukraine is out the orbit of Russia...and they want it in NATO one day so there is no Black sea fleet in Crimea.

They also probably want it so Corporate goons like Blackrock can exploit it for its resources. Natural gas and farmland in particular.

[BlackRock and JPMorgan help set up Ukraine reconstruction bank

Fund aims to attract billions of dollars in private investment to assist "rebuilding projects" in war-torn country]

https://www.ft.com/content/3d6041fb-5747-4564-9874-691742aa52a2

Poor Ukraine they are going to end up answering to Moscow after this war or DC....no freedom for them.

Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The irony here....LOL.

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

---

No you don't. Just look at what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

ron.reagan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

---

No you don't. Just look at what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

---

Well true...I forgot the DC drive your armies to Baghdad way of regime change.

I doubt 1 million dead Iraqis forgot...but I did...foolish me

Redbrickbear said:

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ron.reagan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

---

No you don't. Just look at what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

---

Well true...I forgot the DC drive your armies to Baghdad way of regime change.

I doubt 1 million dead Iraqis forgot...but I did...foolish me

---

Not as peaceful as your boy Stalin for sure

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.

Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.

---

But did the American people?

Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?

Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?

We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?

---

With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.

---

I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.

And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.

---

I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regard

---

Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.

The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.

ps

25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.

---

How do you know what that money was spent on?

Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"

Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?

Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"

Get real buddy....

People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people

---

Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.

---

Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.

And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.

It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)

Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.

And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices


https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799


If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.

---

Totally disagree. Particularly in the context of history, for a country that went virtually overnight from communist Soviet Union to sovereign nation then still in large part controlled by Russia years after, Ukraine's commitment to freedom and democracy and reduction in corruption have been exceedingly impressive.

---

Well I think its obvious that our rulers don't care if Ukraine is free, democratic, and non-corrupt.

Those are secondary concerns...if concerns at all.

What they care about is that Ukraine is out the orbit of Russia...and they want it in NATO one day so there is no Black sea fleet in Crimea.

They also probably want it so Corporate goons like Blackrock can exploit it for its resources. Natural gas and farmland in particular.

[BlackRock and JPMorgan help set up Ukraine reconstruction bank

Fund aims to attract billions of dollars in private investment to assist "rebuilding projects" in war-torn country]

https://www.ft.com/content/3d6041fb-5747-4564-9874-691742aa52a2

Poor Ukraine they are going to end up answering to Moscow after this war or DC....no freedom for them.

---

Different issues entirely.

I despise Black Rock, but I'm actually glad it is U.S. institutions involved.

And I do believe our leaders care about freedom for the Ukrainian people. We have a long history of supporting freedom and democracy often in regions with little strategic significance.

ron.reagan said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

---

No you don't. Just look at what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

---

Well true...I forgot the DC drive your armies to Baghdad way of regime change.

I doubt 1 million dead Iraqis forgot...but I did...foolish me

---

Not as peaceful as your boy Stalin for sure

---

You're the leftist here…you would know

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

---

Apparently anything that didn't cheerlead Russia is a coup mechanism. Is that what I'm to understand?

ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

---

Apparently anything that didn't cheerlead Russia is a coup mechanism. Is that what I'm to understand?

---

No one said that.

Hosting a talk at the local university on English common law is not coup stuff (but who are we kidding the liberal ghouls at the State Department would never host such a conference with such "whiteness")

Funneling money into a militia at maidan would be.

So what was the CIA and State Department doing with taxpayer money?

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.

Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.

---

But did the American people?

Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?

Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?

We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?

---

With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.

---

I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.

And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.

---

I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regard

---

Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.

The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.

ps

25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.

---

How do you know what that money was spent on?

Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"

Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?

Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"

Get real buddy....

People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people

---

Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.

---

Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.

And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.

It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)

Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.

And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices


https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799


If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.

---

Ok, that is disingenuous. The CIA played a huge role in bringing down the Soviet Union.

---

The terrible Soviet economic system was one of the main drivers of brining down the USSR.

And the precipitating event that lead to the full break up of the Union was the failed coup launch in August of 1991

Are you trying to make the crazy argument that the CIA made the Soviet Union engage in a terrible communist economic system and that the CIA planned the August Coup of 1991 which lead to the end of the USSR?

[The unsuccessful August 1991 coup against Gorbachev sealed the fate of the Soviet Union. Planned by hard-line Communists, the coup diminished Gorbachev's power and propelled Yeltsin and the democratic forces to the forefront of Soviet and Russian politics.

On 20 August, the Russian SFSR was scheduled to sign a New Union Treaty that would have converted the Soviet Union into a federation of independent republics with a common president, foreign policy and military. It was strongly supported by the Central Asian republics, which needed the economic advantages of a common market to prosper...

Thousands of Muscovites came out to defend the White House (the Russian Federation's parliament and Yeltsin's office), the symbolic seat of Russian sovereignty at the time. The organizers of the coup tried but ultimately failed to arrest Yeltsin, who rallied opposition to the coup by making speeches from atop a tank.

After three days, on 21 August 1991, the coup collapsed.

The Soviet Union collapsed with dramatic speed in the last quarter of 1991. Between August and December, 10 republics seceded from the union, including the Russian SFSR, largely out of fear of another coup.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

---

You only seem to attribute negatives to the US..

---

I think you have failed to make a distinction between the regime that rules in DC and the American people and States.

You understand they are not the same thing right?

And if you think DC has earned trust then you really are deep into the propaganda

---

Earned our trust? What has the US done not to be trusted? Take the terrorist war to the Middle East? Fight in their cities not ours? Talk to the Afghani women who finally got to school. Support nations wanting to rule themselves? Protecting trade routes? Protecting Europe, Japan and Korea. Yeah, aren't we *******s.

What you don't get is there is no separation between the American people and DC. We are the same and for the most part the Nations that Allie with us, the individual has more freedom and opportunities than any other Allie. Maybe if you served, you would feel different. It gives you an opportunity to see the people the US try to help. I didn't meet a kuwaiti that preferred Iraq or Russia or China.

Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

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I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

---

Apparently anything that didn't cheerlead Russia is a coup mechanism. Is that what I'm to understand?

---

No one said that.

Hosting a talk at the local university on English common law is not coup stuff (but who are we kidding the liberal ghouls at the State Department would never host such a conference with such "whiteness")

Funneling money into a militia at maidan would be.

So what was the CIA and State Department doing with taxpayer money?

---

Clearly not enough.

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.

Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.

---

But did the American people?

Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?

Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?

We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?

---

With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.

---

I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.

And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.

---

I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regard

---

Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.

The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.

ps

25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.

---

How do you know what that money was spent on?

Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"

Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?

Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"

Get real buddy....

People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people

---

Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.

---

Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.

And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.

It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)

Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.

And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices


https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799


If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.

---

Ok, that is disingenuous. The CIA played a huge role in bringing down the Soviet Union.

---

The terrible Soviet economic system was one of the main drivers of brining down the USSR.

And the precipitating event that lead to the full break up of the Union was the failed coup launch in August of 1991

Are you trying to make the crazy argument that the CIA made the Soviet Union engage in a terrible communist economic system and that the CIA planned the August Coup of 1991 which lead to the end of the USSR?

[The unsuccessful August 1991 coup against Gorbachev sealed the fate of the Soviet Union. Planned by hard-line Communists, the coup diminished Gorbachev's power and propelled Yeltsin and the democratic forces to the forefront of Soviet and Russian politics.

On 20 August, the Russian SFSR was scheduled to sign a New Union Treaty that would have converted the Soviet Union into a federation of independent republics with a common president, foreign policy and military. It was strongly supported by the Central Asian republics, which needed the economic advantages of a common market to prosper...

Thousands of Muscovites came out to defend the White House (the Russian Federation's parliament and Yeltsin's office), the symbolic seat of Russian sovereignty at the time. The organizers of the coup tried but ultimately failed to arrest Yeltsin, who rallied opposition to the coup by making speeches from atop a tank.

After three days, on 21 August 1991, the coup collapsed.

The Soviet Union collapsed with dramatic speed in the last quarter of 1991. Between August and December, 10 republics seceded from the union, including the Russian SFSR, largely out of fear of another coup.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

---

You only seem to attribute negatives to the US..

---

I think you have failed to make a distinction between the regime that rules in DC and the American people and States.

You understand they are not the same thing right?

And if you think DC has earned trust then you really are deep into the propaganda

---

Earned our trust? What has the US done not to be trusted?

What you don't get is there is no separation between the American people and DC.

---

You just forgot the lies that got us into the Iraq war huh?


And yes there is a difference between the Federal government in DC and the people (and States)


Can't believe you would even say something like that….

KaiBear said:

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Realitybites said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BREAKING:

Financial Times reports that President Milei is planning to organize a “South American Support Summit" for Ukraine later this year.

He wants South America to start pitching in with North America and Europe in the effort to help Ukraine win the war with Russia

🇦🇷🇺🇦 pic.twitter.com/4slS0jruhB

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) February 29, 2024

---

He needs to focus on fixing Argentina. If he doesn't, the Peronistas will be back in power in the next election.

---

Exactly right .

Argentina does not have a penny to waste on Ukraine.

Of course the United States doesn't either.

But the federal printing press churns on anyway.

---

he's executed his campaign promises. Already has slashed govt jobs by something like 2/3 and has a balanced budget. He's got a lot of work to do, but the first steps are spot on.

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

Good grief. what a mess of cause/effect.

Giving aid to a post-Yanukovich government is not meddling in internal affairs or sponsoring a coup.

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

Giving aid to a post-Yanukovich government is not meddling in internal affairs or sponsoring a coup.

---

We were spending billions in Ukraine long before a post-Yanukovich government.

And spending that money on nebulous projects and ideas like "democratic values"….you have to wonder who was getting that cash

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.

Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.

---

But did the American people?

Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?

Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?

We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?

---

With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.

---

I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.

And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.

---

I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regard

---

Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.

The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.

ps

25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.

---

How do you know what that money was spent on?

Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"

Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?

Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"

Get real buddy....

People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people

---

Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.

---

Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.

And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.

It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)

Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.

And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices


https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799


If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.

---

Ok, that is disingenuous. The CIA played a huge role in bringing down the Soviet Union.

---

The terrible Soviet economic system was one of the main drivers of brining down the USSR.

And the precipitating event that lead to the full break up of the Union was the failed coup launch in August of 1991

Are you trying to make the crazy argument that the CIA made the Soviet Union engage in a terrible communist economic system and that the CIA planned the August Coup of 1991 which lead to the end of the USSR?

[The unsuccessful August 1991 coup against Gorbachev sealed the fate of the Soviet Union. Planned by hard-line Communists, the coup diminished Gorbachev's power and propelled Yeltsin and the democratic forces to the forefront of Soviet and Russian politics.

On 20 August, the Russian SFSR was scheduled to sign a New Union Treaty that would have converted the Soviet Union into a federation of independent republics with a common president, foreign policy and military. It was strongly supported by the Central Asian republics, which needed the economic advantages of a common market to prosper...

Thousands of Muscovites came out to defend the White House (the Russian Federation's parliament and Yeltsin's office), the symbolic seat of Russian sovereignty at the time. The organizers of the coup tried but ultimately failed to arrest Yeltsin, who rallied opposition to the coup by making speeches from atop a tank.

After three days, on 21 August 1991, the coup collapsed.

The Soviet Union collapsed with dramatic speed in the last quarter of 1991. Between August and December, 10 republics seceded from the union, including the Russian SFSR, largely out of fear of another coup.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

---

You only seem to attribute negatives to the US..

---

I think you have failed to make a distinction between the regime that rules in DC and the American people and States.

You understand they are not the same thing right?

And if you think DC has earned trust then you really are deep into the propaganda

---

Earned our trust? What has the US done not to be trusted?

What you don't get is there is no separation between the American people and DC.

---

You just forgot the lies that got us into the Iraq war huh?


And yes there is a difference between the Federal government in DC and the people (and States)


Can't believe you would even say something like that….

---

Lies? It was bad information. I was over there in the Gulf War, there was every reason to believe that Sadaam had and would use WMDs. He did it against Iraq. I saw the Scuds.
I have friends that were in those bunkers every time that ******* sent a missile toward Dharain. Anyone else here remember looking to the north and the sky bright orange from oil fires? Invading was worth retribution for that alone.
Want to talk eco disaster? Bush was not wrong, he just got bad intel. Others have more insight into that. But you forget the case Sadaam built against himself.

It is very easy 20 years later to say it was lies and a plot by the deep state. The American people keep voting these people in and are about to do it again with Trump. Don't tell me the American people are innocent. Bush won 2 terms. Obama won 2 terms. They did what the American people want. What this Board can't get, is this group is the minority. You are the one with the opinions that are strange to the population. Biden is going to get 90 to 100 million votes, not because of fraud but because more people agree with him than the Baylor Alum. That is the reality. And we are running Trump, THE most hated man in the Nation. Gonna be fun, buy those Alt Energy stocks it is the American way.

ron.reagan said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

---

I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

---

Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

---

So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

---

Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

---

You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

---

No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

---

Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

---

The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior?

---

Well of course there were.

You have to lay the ground work for regime change...it does not just happen on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution#:~:text=The%20Colour%20revolutions%20(sometimes%20coloured,Federal%20Republic%20of%20Yugoslavia%20during

---

No you don't. Just look at what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

---

Good point. Russia COULD have done to Ukraine what we did, effective positive change without inantry, tanks, artillery, missile barrages, naval blockade, etc....

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.

Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.

---

But did the American people?

Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?

Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?

We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?

---

With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.

---

I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.

And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.

---

I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regard

---

Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.

The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.

ps

25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.

---

How do you know what that money was spent on?

Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"

Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?

Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"

Get real buddy....

People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people

---

Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.

---

Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.

And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.

It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)

Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.

And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices


https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799


If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.

---

Ok, that is disingenuous. The CIA played a huge role in bringing down the Soviet Union.

---

The terrible Soviet economic system was one of the main drivers of brining down the USSR.

And the precipitating event that lead to the full break up of the Union was the failed coup launch in August of 1991

Are you trying to make the crazy argument that the CIA made the Soviet Union engage in a terrible communist economic system and that the CIA planned the August Coup of 1991 which lead to the end of the USSR?

[The unsuccessful August 1991 coup against Gorbachev sealed the fate of the Soviet Union. Planned by hard-line Communists, the coup diminished Gorbachev's power and propelled Yeltsin and the democratic forces to the forefront of Soviet and Russian politics.

On 20 August, the Russian SFSR was scheduled to sign a New Union Treaty that would have converted the Soviet Union into a federation of independent republics with a common president, foreign policy and military. It was strongly supported by the Central Asian republics, which needed the economic advantages of a common market to prosper...

Thousands of Muscovites came out to defend the White House (the Russian Federation's parliament and Yeltsin's office), the symbolic seat of Russian sovereignty at the time. The organizers of the coup tried but ultimately failed to arrest Yeltsin, who rallied opposition to the coup by making speeches from atop a tank.

After three days, on 21 August 1991, the coup collapsed.

The Soviet Union collapsed with dramatic speed in the last quarter of 1991. Between August and December, 10 republics seceded from the union, including the Russian SFSR, largely out of fear of another coup.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

---

You only seem to attribute negatives to the US..

---

I think you have failed to make a distinction between the regime that rules in DC and the American people and States.

You understand they are not the same thing right?

And if you think DC has earned trust then you really are deep into the propaganda

---

Earned our trust? What has the US done not to be trusted?

What you don't get is there is no separation between the American people and DC.

---

You just forgot the lies that got us into the Iraq war huh?


And yes there is a difference between the Federal government in DC and the people (and States)


Can't believe you would even say something like that….

---

Lies? It was bad information.

Want to talk eco disaster? Bush was not wrong, he just got bad intel.

---

So the CIA and intelligence agencies are not liars….they are just incompetent? Fair enough

It was a putsch, like Lenin’s in 1917 in Petrograd, and like Gottwald’s ( backed by Stalin) in Prague in 1948. And like the CIA’s ( helped by MI6) in Teheran in 1953, and like the CIA’s in Santiago de Chile in 1973. These things happen all the time. Only the dim don’t realise… https://t.co/tbz1YF2vns

— Peter Hitchens (@ClarkeMicah) March 2, 2024

I have some personal dog in this fight. We had an exchange student live with us for 2 yrs. She (Alika) was from Ukraine. She is part of the family. She is now a lawyer in Warsaw. However , her parents lived 10 miles from Kiev . Their house was bombed and the had to leave everything behind and had to flee to Poland and now live with Alika. I have heard stories first hand and they are horrific. We must supply Ukraine with what they need. This is WW2 in the making if we don't help stop it.

We got drawn into WW2 by helping China and Great Britain.

500,000 dead American servicemen later China became communist, the British Empire fell apart and eastern Europe was under the complete domination of the Soviet Union.

One would think US foreign policy would finally return to the wisdom of our Founding Fathers.

KaiBear said:

---

We got drawn into WW2 by helping China and Great Britain.

500,000 dead American servicemen later China became communist, the British Empire fell apart and eastern Europe was under the complete domination of the Soviet Union.

One would think US foreign policy would finally return to the wisdom of our Founding Fathers.

---

WW2 has certainly become a cornerstone event for the ruling class of the West.

They constantly refer to the enemies overseas and their domestic conservative enemies as Nazis.

Not to mention our understanding of that war is filtered through a lot of lenses.

Who was it who said "WW2 began by trying to prevent a totalitarian government from controlling Poland, it ended with a totalitarian government controlling Poland, and along the way 50+ million people died"


[88% of Americans in 1940 opposed the idea of declaring war against the Axis powers in Europe," per The National World War Two Museum. "As late as June, only 35% of Americans believed their government should risk war to help the British."]

KaiBear said:

---

We got drawn into WW2 by helping China and Great Britain.

500,000 dead American servicemen later China became communist, the British Empire fell apart and eastern Europe was under the complete domination of the Soviet Union.

One would think US foreign policy would finally return to the wisdom of our Founding Fathers.

---

Founding fathers almost killed everyone. You are one stupid mother ****er

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.

Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.

---

But did the American people?

Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?

Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?

We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?

---

With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.

---

I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.

And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.

---

I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regard

---

Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.

The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.

ps

25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.

---

Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

---

You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

---

We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

---

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

---

"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

---

Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

---

Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

---

I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.

---

How do you know what that money was spent on?

Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"

Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?

Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"

Get real buddy....

People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people

---

Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.

---

Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.

And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.

It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)

Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.

And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices


https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799


If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.

---

Ok, that is disingenuous. The CIA played a huge role in bringing down the Soviet Union.

---

The terrible Soviet economic system was one of the main drivers of brining down the USSR.

And the precipitating event that lead to the full break up of the Union was the failed coup launch in August of 1991

Are you trying to make the crazy argument that the CIA made the Soviet Union engage in a terrible communist economic system and that the CIA planned the August Coup of 1991 which lead to the end of the USSR?

[The unsuccessful August 1991 coup against Gorbachev sealed the fate of the Soviet Union. Planned by hard-line Communists, the coup diminished Gorbachev's power and propelled Yeltsin and the democratic forces to the forefront of Soviet and Russian politics.

On 20 August, the Russian SFSR was scheduled to sign a New Union Treaty that would have converted the Soviet Union into a federation of independent republics with a common president, foreign policy and military. It was strongly supported by the Central Asian republics, which needed the economic advantages of a common market to prosper...

Thousands of Muscovites came out to defend the White House (the Russian Federation's parliament and Yeltsin's office), the symbolic seat of Russian sovereignty at the time. The organizers of the coup tried but ultimately failed to arrest Yeltsin, who rallied opposition to the coup by making speeches from atop a tank.

After three days, on 21 August 1991, the coup collapsed.

The Soviet Union collapsed with dramatic speed in the last quarter of 1991. Between August and December, 10 republics seceded from the union, including the Russian SFSR, largely out of fear of another coup.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

---

You only seem to attribute negatives to the US..

---

I think you have failed to make a distinction between the regime that rules in DC and the American people and States.

You understand they are not the same thing right?

And if you think DC has earned trust then you really are deep into the propaganda

---

Earned our trust? What has the US done not to be trusted?

What you don't get is there is no separation between the American people and DC.

---

You just forgot the lies that got us into the Iraq war huh?


And yes there is a difference between the Federal government in DC and the people (and States)


Can't believe you would even say something like that….

---

Lies? It was bad information.

Want to talk eco disaster? Bush was not wrong, he just got bad intel.

---

So the CIA and intelligence agencies are not liars….they are just incompetent? Fair enough

---

You really believe that intelligence gathering is an exact science? If that is the case, international relations may not be the area for you. Try engineering or chemistry, you will get exact results there as math doesn't lie. If you believe that the CIA and the US intelligence community is incompetent not much anyone can do to convince you.

If you doubt that Sadaam deserved what he got in 2003, reference below. Even without the WMD, which the risk and his history made going in worthwhile, the eco-damage and human damage he did justified it. Kuwait on fire, 1991. We are still dealing with the cancer issues. But, I guess like Ukraine it would have been better to just give Sadaam Kuwait. That seems to be the conventional wisdom for Putin, give him what he wants.

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.

Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.

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But did the American people?

Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?

Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?

We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?

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With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.

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I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.

And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.

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I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regard

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Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.

The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.

ps

25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.

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Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.

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You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.

A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?

What could go wrong....

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We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.

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I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:

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"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear

It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.

Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.

Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.

One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....

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Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?

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Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.

She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.

Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.




[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.

Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]


So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)

Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s

Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.

Its all very very interesting....

Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.

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I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.

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How do you know what that money was spent on?

Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"

Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?

Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"

Get real buddy....

People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people

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Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.

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Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.

And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.

It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)

Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.

And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices


https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799


If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.

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Ok, that is disingenuous. The CIA played a huge role in bringing down the Soviet Union.

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The terrible Soviet economic system was one of the main drivers of brining down the USSR.

And the precipitating event that lead to the full break up of the Union was the failed coup launch in August of 1991

Are you trying to make the crazy argument that the CIA made the Soviet Union engage in a terrible communist economic system and that the CIA planned the August Coup of 1991 which lead to the end of the USSR?

[The unsuccessful August 1991 coup against Gorbachev sealed the fate of the Soviet Union. Planned by hard-line Communists, the coup diminished Gorbachev's power and propelled Yeltsin and the democratic forces to the forefront of Soviet and Russian politics.

On 20 August, the Russian SFSR was scheduled to sign a New Union Treaty that would have converted the Soviet Union into a federation of independent republics with a common president, foreign policy and military. It was strongly supported by the Central Asian republics, which needed the economic advantages of a common market to prosper...

Thousands of Muscovites came out to defend the White House (the Russian Federation's parliament and Yeltsin's office), the symbolic seat of Russian sovereignty at the time. The organizers of the coup tried but ultimately failed to arrest Yeltsin, who rallied opposition to the coup by making speeches from atop a tank.

After three days, on 21 August 1991, the coup collapsed.

The Soviet Union collapsed with dramatic speed in the last quarter of 1991. Between August and December, 10 republics seceded from the union, including the Russian SFSR, largely out of fear of another coup.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

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You only seem to attribute negatives to the US..

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I think you have failed to make a distinction between the regime that rules in DC and the American people and States.

You understand they are not the same thing right?

And if you think DC has earned trust then you really are deep into the propaganda

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Earned our trust? What has the US done not to be trusted?

What you don't get is there is no separation between the American people and DC.

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You just forgot the lies that got us into the Iraq war huh?


And yes there is a difference between the Federal government in DC and the people (and States)


Can't believe you would even say something like that….

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Lies? It was bad information.

Want to talk eco disaster? Bush was not wrong, he just got bad intel.

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So the CIA and intelligence agencies are not liars….they are just incompetent? Fair enough

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You really believe that intelligence gathering is an exact science? If that is the case, international relations may not be the area for you. Try engineering or chemistry, you will get exact results there as math doesn't lie. If you believe that the CIA and the US intelligence community is incompetent ]

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image from salon as source. lmao

ron.reagan said:

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image from salon as source. lmao

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You like Newsweek better comrade?







How about the AP or is that far too conservative for you.

I think this is my new favorite visualization of contributions to total NATO defense spending. pic.twitter.com/OcATNmaxgF

— Crémieux (@cremieuxrecueil) March 2, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

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ron.reagan said:

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image from salon as source. lmao

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You like Newsweek better comrade?

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All that you have shown is that Sadaam's henchmen said they had no WMDs and that Bush didn't have that information.

Now, point 1. You are seriously going to sit here and tell us that because Sadaam said he didn't have WMDs that everyone should have stood down?? Disregard the Iranian nerve gassing, the nerve agent sensors that went off during the Gulf War, the bunkers that were found during the Gulf War, and Sadaam's firing of SCUDS. All that disregard because Sadaams staff said we are clean? Really?

Point 2, even if that were the case and in some Bizzarro world we all agree the US and its coalition should have stood down. The decisionmakers never got the information. So, how is Bush a war criminal?

I would love to hear what the Intelligence community and the military S2's think of this source of Deep State conspiracy to take Iraq, even though we never made a dime off their oil or got any. This was all done for contracts???

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ron.reagan said:

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image from salon as source. lmao

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You like Newsweek better comrade?

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All that you have shown is that Sadaam's henchmen said they had no WMDs and that Bush didn't have that information….

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So you admit the intelligence agencies you love were wrong and incompetent?


[Powell's presentation was forceful, seemingly exhaustive and had the effect of cinching the US case for preemptive war against Iraq before the international community.

"What we are giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence," Powell told the Security Council.

But it was not true. The underlying intelligence was false.

Years later, confronted with the facts, Powell was forced to acknowledge that his UN presentation, painstakingly prepared across several days by the CIA, was wrong.

"It turned out, as we discovered later, that a lot of sources that had been attested to by the intelligence community were wrong," said Powell]

Have you guys ever questioned why you're in lockstep support with democrats and radical leftists over supporting this war?

You guys need to wake the *** up.

World War 3 has already begun.

British troops are directing air strikes in Ukraine.

Germany intends to bomb Crimea. pic.twitter.com/IvRvKTa1dP

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 2, 2024

Germany confirms the authenticity of the recording of German military officials discussing ukraine, leaked by Russian media.

In the tape, German officials are heard speaking of American and British troops operating inside of Ukraine. https://t.co/UzMYm0FTHZ

— Trita Parsi (@tparsi) March 2, 2024

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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sombear said:

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I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.

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I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.

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Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.

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So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?

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Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.

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You know you're lying to yourself.

And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.

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No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.

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Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.

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The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior? Hell, Yanukovych even did interviews on them. This is absolutely laughable association.

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This makes no sense. No one is saying that all webcasts are "coup mechanisms." Only the ones that, you know, work in support of a coup.