Says the guy who's been posting on this thread for a year and hasn't been right yet. When are your boys going to seize Crimea and spark a revolution in Moscow again?trey3216 said:Kiev has been raining down rockets and artillery on Russian military who have been in Donbas since before 2014. They may disagree with their Russian speaking citizens, but they're not killing them for it. You have no basis in reality with anything you type.Sam Lowry said:When you consider that most of the fighting is in areas that support Russia, it doesn't make much sense for them to target their own people. It's easier to understand why Kiev rains down rockets on civilians in Donetsk for months at a time. They hate Russian speakers and want to punish them.KaiBear said:There are thousands of dead Ukrainian civilians, resulting from Russian missiles, drones and airstrikes.Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Really think they are all accidental ?
Why Are We in Ukraine?
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Last: 8 hrs ago by whiterock
Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
Sam Lowry said:Oh, I've seen the accusations. Just not the evidence. Russia is targeting plenty of dual-use infrastructure around the country. In many instances Ukraine can't even claim that much.sombear said:Not surprising given you get your info from Russian state media. There are videos and pictures posted at least weekly of schools, hospitals, malls, and apartment complexes being bombed nowhere near battlefields, including in Kyiv. Russia has been doing this since the beginning of the war.Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
I haven't seen proof that your IQ is Siberian bathroom temperature, but your posting pretty well assures my inclination.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
When a Nation is fighting an invasion, by a larger nuclear-powered neighbor no less, they tend to be given the benefit of the doubt. To stick to the WW2 comparison, the French Resistance committed some horrendous acts, yet they were occupied so they were the victim. Russia cannot be a victim when it rolled 200k troops across a neighbor's border. Just like Iraq could not be the victim from Kuwaiti's. The aggressor has a hard time calling foul when they are the cause of the war.Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...
Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Why not just move your ass to Russia. Stop quiet quitting and be a big boy. They are the aggressor here. You talk about apartments being bombed and it's probably a shot down drone. You talk about terrorism and the only guilty party of terroristic acts is Russia here. Go! Freee your mind of western propaganda and embrace the cold, sadistic, hopeless and hapless culture of Vladimir Putin's Russia. Have fun. And don't get caught posting, or you'll be fed into the meat grinder in Ukraine, or Georgia, or Armenia, or in some other locale far far from home.Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
LOL.trey3216 said:Why not just move your ass to Russia. Stop quiet quitting and be a big boy. They are the aggressor here. You talk about apartments being bombed and it's probably a shot down drone. You talk about terrorism and the only guilty party of terroristic acts is Russia here. Go! Freee your mind of western propaganda and embrace the cold, sadistic, hopeless and hapless culture of Vladimir Putin's Russia. Have fun. And don't get caught posting, or you'll be fed into the meat grinder in Ukraine, or Georgia, or Armenia, or in some other locale far far from home.Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Let's you move to Ukraine and I'll move to Russia, and we'll see who goes in the meat grinder first. Even you know enough not to take that bet.
Sam Lowry said:When you consider that most of the fighting is in areas that support Russia, it doesn't make much sense for them to target their own people. It's easier to understand why Kiev rains down rockets on civilians in Donetsk for months at a time. They hate Russian speakers and want to punish them.KaiBear said:There are thousands of dead Ukrainian civilians, resulting from Russian missiles, drones and airstrikes.Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Really think they are all accidental ?
So thousands of dead Ukrainian civilians is not the fault of the Russians.
Thank you for clearing that up.
I didn't say they were without fault. I said they were without intent, as far as I can tell. Could be wrong, though.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When you consider that most of the fighting is in areas that support Russia, it doesn't make much sense for them to target their own people. It's easier to understand why Kiev rains down rockets on civilians in Donetsk for months at a time. They hate Russian speakers and want to punish them.KaiBear said:There are thousands of dead Ukrainian civilians, resulting from Russian missiles, drones and airstrikes.Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Really think they are all accidental ?
So thousands of dead Ukrainian civilians is not the fault of the Russians.
Thank you for clearing that up.
Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
We were technically invaders in WW2, but we saw it as an invasion in order to liberate. That's why we didn't go killing French civilians. Russia sees its invasion of the Donbas in the same way.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
Sam Lowry said:That's why we didn't go killing French civilians.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
Allied bombing in France killed more than 68,000 French civilians.
Another piece of history conveniently forgotten by the winners.
I think that supports my point. There was collateral damage, but it wasn't intentional.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:That's why we didn't go killing French civilians.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
Allied bombing in France killed more than 68,000 French civilians.
Another piece of history conveniently forgotten by the winners.
Sam Lowry said:I think that supports my point. There was collateral damage, but it wasn't intentional.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:That's why we didn't go killing French civilians.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
Allied bombing in France killed more than 68,000 French civilians.
Another piece of history conveniently forgotten by the winners.
I'm sure that made a huge difference to all of those who had their children burned alive or blown apart miles from legitimate targets.
If it made no difference, would we have been welcomed as we were? Did the French perceive us as trying to exterminate them? I don't think so.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:I think that supports my point. There was collateral damage, but it wasn't intentional.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:That's why we didn't go killing French civilians.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
Allied bombing in France killed more than 68,000 French civilians.
Another piece of history conveniently forgotten by the winners.
I'm sure that made a huge difference to all of those who had their children burned alive or blown apart miles from legitimate targets.
Sam Lowry said:If it made no difference, would we have been welcomed as we were? Did the French perceive us as trying to exterminate them? I don't think so.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:I think that supports my point. There was collateral damage, but it wasn't intentional.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:That's why we didn't go killing French civilians.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
Allied bombing in France killed more than 68,000 French civilians.
Another piece of history conveniently forgotten by the winners.
I'm sure that made a huge difference to all of those who had their children burned alive or blown apart miles from legitimate targets.
Allied bombing killed far more French civilians than the Gestapo. Another 100,000 civilians were seriously wounded.
But our historians conveniently forgot to interview those who suffered most.
FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
But nothing more than that…
I don't remember China, Russia, or India funding a proxy war against us for violating international law and invading Iraq and overthrowing it's government.
(Though we might make the argument that Iran did)
KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:If it made no difference, would we have been welcomed as we were? Did the French perceive us as trying to exterminate them? I don't think so.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:I think that supports my point. There was collateral damage, but it wasn't intentional.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:That's why we didn't go killing French civilians.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
Allied bombing in France killed more than 68,000 French civilians.
Another piece of history conveniently forgotten by the winners.
I'm sure that made a huge difference to all of those who had their children burned alive or blown apart miles from legitimate targets.
Allied bombing killed far more French civilians than the Gestapo. Another 100,000 civilians were seriously wounded.
But our historians conveniently forgot to interview those who suffered most.
World War II is a extremely interesting conflict
If nothing else because of the way the post war Western leadership has really leaned into the mythos and uses it to shill for endless interventionism abroad while stifling nationalism/right wing populist movements at home.
*Plus Churchill waging war to save Poland from a totalitarian dictatorship only to hand it over to a totalitarian dictatorship is something out of a Greek tragedy
Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:If it made no difference, would we have been welcomed as we were? Did the French perceive us as trying to exterminate them? I don't think so.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:I think that supports my point. There was collateral damage, but it wasn't intentional.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:That's why we didn't go killing French civilians.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
Part true, we are supporting the defender. Just like WW2. When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
Allied bombing in France killed more than 68,000 French civilians.
Another piece of history conveniently forgotten by the winners.
I'm sure that made a huge difference to all of those who had their children burned alive or blown apart miles from legitimate targets.
Allied bombing killed far more French civilians than the Gestapo. Another 100,000 civilians were seriously wounded.
But our historians conveniently forgot to interview those who suffered most.
World War II is a extremely interesting conflict
If nothing else because of the way the post war Western leadership has really leaned into the mythos and uses it to shill for endless interventionism abroad while stifling nationalism/right wing populist movements at home.
*Plus Churchill waging war to save Poland from a totalitarian dictatorship only to hand it over to a totalitarian dictatorship is something out of a Greek tragedy
All true.
But most Americans couldn't even tell you who fought in the war or why.
Much less comprehend your comments.
So we inevitably stumble into still another blood fest with Harris as commander in chief.
FLBear5630 said:
When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
About that Iraq/Kuwait invasion. People forget Ross Perot callig out April Glaspie (our ambassador to Iraq in 1990). She hadn't met with Saddam Hussein for two years and then, upon being summond to meet him that July, green lit the invasion of Kuwait.
Her incompetence as a diplomat was a textbook lesson on how cat ranchers from the state department should not handle statecraft...until Victoria Nuland staged a coup in Ukraine and dragged the world towards World War 3.
Just curious. How many U.S. soldiers have died in combat in the last 50 years (1974-2024) vs how many died in combat in the 50 years prior to that (1924-1973), or the 50 years prior to that (1873-1923), or even the 50 years prior to that (1822-1872)?
Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
But nothing more than that…
I don't remember China, Russia, or India funding a proxy war against us for violating international law and invading Iraq and overthrowing it's government.
(Though we might make the argument that Iran did)
No, they went after the oil and the contracts. We are the only ones that get caught up in this stuff. China invaded and takes. Russia invaded and takes. We are the only ones worried about making a better life or installing Democracy. Europe wouldn't lift a finger to help without the US. Trying to compare China and Russians motives to the US is laughable. We are the only ones that have Attorneys like you that would side against their Nation in the name of consistency. Look up what happened to the whistleblowers in Russia and China.
FLBear5630 said:
China invaded and takes. Russia invaded and takes. We are the only ones worried about making a better life or installing Democracy. Europe wouldn't lift a finger to help without the US. Trying to compare China and Russians motives to the US is laughable. We are the only ones that have Attorneys like you that would side against their Nation in the name of consistency. Look up what happened to the whistleblowers in Russia and China.
All great powers in history have done the same thing. In the past, doctrines like manifest destiny led countries like England, France, and the US to behave similarly.
Today, most nations wrap their influence operations in something that looks nicer than camouflage: foreign aid, color revolutions, and so on.
As far as whistleblowers and political prisoners, you don't have to look far to find Snowden, Assange, the J6ers, and any number of pro-life protestors. Scott Ritter was flying to Russia to speak and an economic conference...and he had his passport confiscated and home raided for that bit of disobedience. The facts don't square with your attempts to sell a virtuous .gov.
LOL if one is going to spin beyond the facts, one should avoid accidentally admitting something one has insisted is not now nor has ever been the Russian intent - to take Ukraine.Sam Lowry said:Russia: Ukraine should stay neutral.whiterock said:so Russia invaded Ukraine to make it neutral.Sam Lowry said:LMAO…if anyone was wondering why the US has no credibility any more, just take a look at the above.whiterock said:Neutral isn't really an option (thanks to Russia).Redbrickbear said:
[Yesterday Politico dropped a story about how "former GOP officials are sounding the alarm over Trump's Orban embrace." Gosh, where would we be without Former GOP Officials, eh? The story attempts to demonize anyone who has anything to do with the Hungarian prime minister. Excerpt:Quote:
The Conservative Partnership Institute, a nerve center for incubating policies for a second Trump administration, co-sponsored a discussion in October 2022 about how to bring "peace in Ukraine" featuring Hungarian Minister of Foreign Affairs Peter Szijjarto.
Audience members included conservative policy and national security officials and GOP strategists, according to a person familiar with the meeting. Once seated, they were given pamphlets pushing unabashedly pro-Russia talking points.
"Russia has the will, strength, and patience to continue war," warned the document, which was given to POLITICO by a participant. "U.S aid to Ukraine must be severely constricted and Ukrainian President Zelensky should be encouraged by U.S. leadership to seek armistice and concede Ukraine as a neutral country."
"If the U.S. continues to enable war, it will result in the destruction of Ukraine and provoke further Russian aggression toward the West, with the potential for nuclear conflict," it said.
You see what Politico is doing here? We are not supposed to evaluate these claims; we are supposed to reject them out of hand as "pro-Russian talking points."
This is the same kind of manipulation the Blob used to manufacture consent of the American people to support the Iraq War. What, you think Arabs don't deserve democracy? You want Iraq to create a mushroom cloud over an American city? You want the terrorists to win?!
The Orban government might be wrong in its analysis of the Ukraine war, but characterizing it as nothing more than "pro-Russian talking points" does a profound disservice to democratic publics in the US and Europe, who are financing NATO's participation in this war. If Orban's government is wrong, then explain how they're wrong. Don't talk to people like we're morons.]
LOL
America: Ukraine should join NATO.
Russia: Ukraine should really stay neutral.
America: Ukraine should definitely join NATO.
Russia: Seriously, Ukraine needs to stay neutral.
America: Ukraine is 100% joining NATO and there's nothing you can do about it.
Russia: Okay, we're taking Ukraine.
America: B-B-BUT WHAT ABOUT NEUTRALITY???
Progress is progress, however inadvertently it might occur.
except for one......ahem....Realitybites said:FLBear5630 said:
China invaded and takes. Russia invaded and takes. We are the only ones worried about making a better life or installing Democracy. Europe wouldn't lift a finger to help without the US. Trying to compare China and Russians motives to the US is laughable. We are the only ones that have Attorneys like you that would side against their Nation in the name of consistency. Look up what happened to the whistleblowers in Russia and China.
All great powers in history have done the same thing. In the past, doctrines like manifest destiny led countries like England, France, and the US to behave similarly.
Today, most nations wrap their influence operations in something that looks nicer than camouflage: foreign aid, color revolutions, and so on.
As far as whistleblowers and political prisoners, you don't have to look far to find Snowden, Assange, the J6ers, and any number of pro-life protestors. Scott Ritter was flying to Russia to speak and an economic conference...and he had his passport confiscated and home raided for that bit of disobedience. The facts don't square with your attempts to sell a virtuous .gov.
ATL Bear said:
Just curious. How many U.S. soldiers have died in combat in the last 50 years (1974-2024) vs how many died in combat in the 50 years prior to that (1924-1973), or the 50 years prior to that (1873-1923), or even the 50 years prior to that (1822-1872)?
Are you trying to argue that we are getting better at fighting wars with less casualites?
Or just pointing out that we have not been fighting peer competitors lately?
The ability of the Taliban, Iraqi insurgents, or Grenada Marxists to inflict mass casualties on the powerful U.S. military was/is always low.
In fact I actually assume our casualty rates are very similar to the 1873-1923 era (if you take out WWI) when we were fighting banana wars in Latin America and Regime Change operations around our sphere of influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars
[The Banana Wars were a series of conflicts that consisted of military occupation, police action, and intervention by the United States in Central America and the Caribbean between the end of the Spanish-American War in 1898 and the inception of the Good Neighbor Policy in 1934. The military interventions were primarily carried out by the United States Marine Corps, which also developed a manual, the Small Wars Manual (1921) based on their experiences. ]
FLBear5630 said:Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
But nothing more than that…
I don't remember China, Russia, or India funding a proxy war against us for violating international law and invading Iraq and overthrowing it's government.
(Though we might make the argument that Iran did)
No, they went after the oil and the contracts. We are the only ones that get caught up in this stuff. China invaded and takes. Russia invaded and takes. We are the only ones worried about making a better life or installing Democracy. Europe wouldn't lift a finger to help without the US. Trying to compare China and Russians motives to the US is laughable. We are the only ones that have Attorneys like you that would side against their Nation in the name of consistency. Look up what happened to the whistleblowers in Russia and China.
Which should get us to re-evaluate messianic liberal ideology around regime change in the 3rd world.
Its failed countless times....without any noticeable benefit to the American people.
As you say at least Russia and China get resources/strategic possessions with they do it.
D.C. looks at these failures of intervention and says "lets try it again"
D.C. can't even bring stable democracy to Haiti....a very small country a few hundred miles from Miami...and a country we have been trying to help since the 1890s
FLBear5630 said:Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I don't recall Saddam Hussein getting any slack when we illegally invaded his country, do you? Literally quite the opposite.FLBear5630 said:You say that then complain when the Russian's get called out and the Ukrainian's don't. Those fighting invaders are giving a greater latitude. Let's see how it plays out.Sam Lowry said:Not according to any recognized law of war.FLBear5630 said:Like it or not, Russia invaded. They are free game to the Ukainians. You do overlook that little tid-bit a lot...Sam Lowry said:Certain things are par for the course in Western war propaganda. The enemy is always the new Hitler. He's always incapable of listening to reason, even if we're the ones refusing to negotiate. He's always a bloodthirsty tyrant bent on killing as many civilians as possible, even if it makes no sense. Maybe you take this stuff at face value. Personally I don't.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I haven't seen proof that Russia targets civilians. We know Ukraine does, with this airport attack being the latest example.sombear said:I don't recall you posting when Putin bombed hospitals, schools, malls, and apartment buildings far away from battle areas.Sam Lowry said:Fighting a war, stopping Zelensky from terrorizing any more civilians in the Donbas.KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:When all else fails, attack civilian targets. Ukranazis doing what they do best.boognish_bear said:BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) September 10, 2024
All flights in and out of Moscow have been cancelled as a Ukrainian drone swarm is striking Russia’s capital city pic.twitter.com/vShOgLfwjD
Whoa….that's a reach.
What do you think Russia has been doing since day one of their invasion ?
Is Putin your Uncle or something? Got money on Russia? This blind defense of Russia is puzzling.
What's interesting is not that Ukraine is being accused of war crimes. What's interesting is that the West doesn't even bother to deny it. On the contrary, we celebrate it. It's like when they were flying drones into apartment buildings a few months ago. They're taking the fight to the enemy's homeland -- hurray! We even admit what the purpose is. It's to effect political change in Russia by using violence against the population. This is the textbook definition of terrorism. It's very telling that no one notices.
You can say what you want, human nature will cut the defender of an illegal invasion slack.
I understand your position, and I appreciate you saying the quiet part out loud: the rules don't apply to us or our allies. Most here probably agree with you but are less honest with themselves about it. You have to admit it's ironic, though. You think I'm biased toward Russia, but you're the one admittedly applying a double standard. At least I'm trying to be consistent.
When we invade or support an illegal invasion and are wrong we get called out for it, see Iraq.
But nothing more than that…
I don't remember China, Russia, or India funding a proxy war against us for violating international law and invading Iraq and overthrowing it's government.
(Though we might make the argument that Iran did)
We are the only ones that have Attorneys like you that would side against their Nation in the name of consistency.
Again you are confusing criticism of the Federal Government (a State and its political class) with criticism of the Nation.
Different things...
Iraq is just interesting because it shows the US government will just ignore world opinion and international law and invade a country if it feels like its needed.
Russia (in Donbas) and China (with Tibet) have and do act in a similar way.
Its just interesting to point out the hypocrisy....Russia howled when we invaded Iraq....then they turn around and invade Ukraine.
Maybe the fact we don't have to fight those peer wars is the relative peace the globe needs. I know it's not perfect or devoid of conflict, but as the saying goes, it's better to fight the small wars to avoid the big ones.Redbrickbear said:ATL Bear said:
Just curious. How many U.S. soldiers have died in combat in the last 50 years (1974-2024) vs how many died in combat in the 50 years prior to that (1924-1973), or the 50 years prior to that (1873-1923), or even the 50 years prior to that (1822-1872)?
Are you trying to argue that we are getting better at fighting wars with less casualites?
Or just pointing out that we have not been fighting peer competitors lately?
The ability of the Taliban, Iraqi insurgents, or Grenada Marxists to inflict mass casualties on the powerful U.S. military was/is always low.
In fact I actually assume our casualty rates are very similar to the 1873-1923 era (if you take out WWI) when we were fighting banana wars in Latin America and Regime Change operations around our sphere of influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars
[The Banana Wars were a series of conflicts that consisted of military occupation, police action, and intervention by the United States in Central America and the Caribbean between the end of the Spanish-American War in 1898 and the inception of the Good Neighbor Policy in 1934. The military interventions were primarily carried out by the United States Marine Corps, which also developed a manual, the Small Wars Manual (1921) based on their experiences. ]
The geo political reality is that in the past 50 years economic and military relationships have intertwined to the point it takes a lot to escalate to the big war due to shared interests. And yes, I know everyone has their eye on Ukraine for that very reason.
DOD data does not support Redbrick's argument. Since 1980, in only 5 years have death rates in hostile action exceeded death rates by accident. Not once during that period did hostile action deaths come terribly close to half of total deaths.ATL Bear said:Maybe the fact we don't have to fight those peer wars is the relative peace the globe needs. I know it's not perfect or devoid of conflict, but as the saying goes, it's better to fight the small wars to avoid the big ones.Redbrickbear said:ATL Bear said:
Just curious. How many U.S. soldiers have died in combat in the last 50 years (1974-2024) vs how many died in combat in the 50 years prior to that (1924-1973), or the 50 years prior to that (1873-1923), or even the 50 years prior to that (1822-1872)?
Are you trying to argue that we are getting better at fighting wars with less casualites?
Or just pointing out that we have not been fighting peer competitors lately?
The ability of the Taliban, Iraqi insurgents, or Grenada Marxists to inflict mass casualties on the powerful U.S. military was/is always low.
In fact I actually assume our casualty rates are very similar to the 1873-1923 era (if you take out WWI) when we were fighting banana wars in Latin America and Regime Change operations around our sphere of influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars
[The Banana Wars were a series of conflicts that consisted of military occupation, police action, and intervention by the United States in Central America and the Caribbean between the end of the Spanish-American War in 1898 and the inception of the Good Neighbor Policy in 1934. The military interventions were primarily carried out by the United States Marine Corps, which also developed a manual, the Small Wars Manual (1921) based on their experiences. ]
The geo political reality is that in the past 50 years economic and military relationships have intertwined to the point it takes a lot to escalate to the big war due to shared interests. And yes, I know everyone has their eye on Ukraine for that very reason.
https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYearManner
There are valid grounds to criticize neverWars, but the death rate argument is not terribly compelling.
ATL Bear said:Maybe the fact we don't have to fight those peer wars is the relative peace the globe needs. I know it's not perfect or devoid of conflict, but as the saying goes, it's better to fight the small wars to avoid the big ones.Redbrickbear said:ATL Bear said:
Just curious. How many U.S. soldiers have died in combat in the last 50 years (1974-2024) vs how many died in combat in the 50 years prior to that (1924-1973), or the 50 years prior to that (1873-1923), or even the 50 years prior to that (1822-1872)?
Are you trying to argue that we are getting better at fighting wars with less casualites?
Or just pointing out that we have not been fighting peer competitors lately?
The ability of the Taliban, Iraqi insurgents, or Grenada Marxists to inflict mass casualties on the powerful U.S. military was/is always low.
In fact I actually assume our casualty rates are very similar to the 1873-1923 era (if you take out WWI) when we were fighting banana wars in Latin America and Regime Change operations around our sphere of influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars
[The Banana Wars were a series of conflicts that consisted of military occupation, police action, and intervention by the United States in Central America and the Caribbean between the end of the Spanish-American War in 1898 and the inception of the Good Neighbor Policy in 1934. The military interventions were primarily carried out by the United States Marine Corps, which also developed a manual, the Small Wars Manual (1921) based on their experiences. ]
No doubt not fighting wars against peer competitors will keep loses down....we certainly agree that peace on the globe is better than world wars.
But you then lean info the idea that fighting endless small wars in the 3rd world is somehow preventing big wars from taking place.
A very very neo-con argument.
And one not really back up by the facts.
We might very well stumble into a nuclear war with Russia because of a very stupid proxy war in ukriane.
Another "small war" that could go very big very quickly
whiterock said:DOD data does not support Redbrick's argument. Since 1980, in only 5 years have death rates in hostile action exceeded death rates by accident. Not once during that period did hostile action deaths come terribly close to half of total deaths.ATL Bear said:Maybe the fact we don't have to fight those peer wars is the relative peace the globe needs. I know it's not perfect or devoid of conflict, but as the saying goes, it's better to fight the small wars to avoid the big ones.Redbrickbear said:ATL Bear said:
Just curious. How many U.S. soldiers have died in combat in the last 50 years (1974-2024) vs how many died in combat in the 50 years prior to that (1924-1973), or the 50 years prior to that (1873-1923), or even the 50 years prior to that (1822-1872)?
Are you trying to argue that we are getting better at fighting wars with less casualites?
Or just pointing out that we have not been fighting peer competitors lately?
The ability of the Taliban, Iraqi insurgents, or Grenada Marxists to inflict mass casualties on the powerful U.S. military was/is always low.
In fact I actually assume our casualty rates are very similar to the 1873-1923 era (if you take out WWI) when we were fighting banana wars in Latin America and Regime Change operations around our sphere of influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars
[The Banana Wars were a series of conflicts that consisted of military occupation, police action, and intervention by the United States in Central America and the Caribbean between the end of the Spanish-American War in 1898 and the inception of the Good Neighbor Policy in 1934. The military interventions were primarily carried out by the United States Marine Corps, which also developed a manual, the Small Wars Manual (1921) based on their experiences. ]
The geo political reality is that in the past 50 years economic and military relationships have intertwined to the point it takes a lot to escalate to the big war due to shared interests. And yes, I know everyone has their eye on Ukraine for that very reason.
https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYearManner
There are valid grounds to criticize neverWars, but the death rate argument is not terribly compelling.
I did not make any argument about death rates/causality rates
ATL brough that up that topic
I then asked if it was because we had gotten better at fighting wars or if it was because we were not fighting peer competitors?
I gave no data and made no claims about military casualties