Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID was funding over 6,200 journalists across 707 media outlets and 279 "media" NGOs, including nine out of ten media outlets in Ukraine.https://t.co/tLUoBT2GfNhttps://t.co/Siq2RJOXQf pic.twitter.com/LyaUFuq3He

— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) February 6, 2025

---

Confirming the Arestovych quote that I posted a while back:

Quote:

---

Almost 90% of Ukrainian media survived thanks to grants. Actually this is called intellectual occupation. Domestic humanitarians and media were intercepted and put under control back in the 90s. And this is the secret of why, instead of a large Multicultural Symphony of Ukraine, our Ukraine "humanitarians" began to dig a dugout, a Ukrainian Army dugout here the size of the largest European country. This is one of the main reasons for the start of the war. Because when the Biden administration needed to buy Ukraine to contain Russia, it didn't have to try very hard--everything had been bought long ago.

---

Supporting independent media is a noble pursuit, particularly when you're talking about state controlled entities that suppress and execute journalists that speak against those in power. The problem is what we started to promote as necessarily "independent" got off the rails I.e. LGBT initiatives, counter culture, etc.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

VY never claimed he fled for his life.

No, his party voted unanimously to oust him.

---

Such a vote would not have been possible since the requisite party members weren't present. The situation was too volatile after the violence at Maidan Square, which we now know was most likely instigated by our right-wing militia friends.

Yanukovych requested protection from Russia "to ensure his personal security from extremists' actions," stating that he and his supporters were receiving threats of "inflicting bodily harm."

---

They convicted the people responsible for the Maiden killings. Found their weapons and everything. A few they imprisoned, until they were traded to Russia in a prisoner exchange, while the remainder fled and remain in Russia having been granted passports and citizenship.

---

That trial was a sham for any number of reasons. The majority of wounded protesters testified that they were shot from Maidan-controlled areas or saw snipers there. A minority believed that they were shot by police, but in most cases their testimony was inconsistent with video and forensic evidence.

Video evidence and testimony showed that almost all protester deaths happened before police snipers arrived, with orders to stop the mass shooting. It did stop almost immediately, whereupon the police themselves came under fire from Maidan locations.

Even the government concluded that nearly half the victims weren't shot from police positions. In those cases there were simply no charges filed. This may have something to do with the fact that blanket immunity was granted to all Maidan participants, so none of them were ever investigated.

So yeah, the kangaroo court may have convicted some people. But the people responsible for the bloodshed at Maidan? Don't bet on it.

ATL Bear said:

---

Supporting independent media is a noble pursuit...

---

You know it's not "independent"

They are controlled by DC and Brussels

ATL Bear said:

---

Supporting independent media is a noble pursuit, particularly when you're talking about state controlled entities that suppress and execute journalists that speak against those in power. The problem is what we started to promote as necessarily "independent" got off the rails I.e. LGBT initiatives, counter culture, etc.

---

An odd comment, since Yanukovych never executed journalists. There has been a string of suspicious deaths among journalists since he was ousted, including an American who died in the custody of the Zelensky regime. But I doubt that's what you're referring to.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

VY never claimed he fled for his life.

No, his party voted unanimously to oust him.

---

Such a vote would not have been possible since the requisite party members weren't present. The situation was too volatile after the violence at Maidan Square, which we now know was most likely instigated by our right-wing militia friends.

Yanukovych requested protection from Russia "to ensure his personal security from extremists' actions," stating that he and his supporters were receiving threats of "inflicting bodily harm."

---

They convicted the people responsible for the Maiden killings. Found their weapons and everything...

---

You do realize that even the BBC has come out and said it was possible the protesters were the ones who started the shooting in Maidan Square

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Supporting independent media is a noble pursuit, particularly when you're talking about state controlled entities that suppress and execute journalists that speak against those in power. The problem is what we started to promote as necessarily "independent" got off the rails I.e. LGBT initiatives, counter culture, etc.

---

An odd comment, since Yanukovych never executed journalists. There has been a string of suspicious deaths among journalists since he was ousted, including an American who died in the custody of the Zelensky regime. But I doubt that's what you're referring to.

---

LOL. That sex pest propagandist wasn't a journalist.

Andrii Telizhenko:

Quote:

---

What I can tell you is when I went to work in the Prosecutor's office afterwards, I saw the Maidan case and it was in documents. The first case, because then they changed them a couple of times, and from the original case which I saw, Yanukovych's involvement in this was barely none. That's what I can tell you. He was not even in his office or in his house. He was outside of Kiev driving in three Ladas to a secure location with his bodyguards. And this is a testimony by his bodyguards who are working for the Ukraine government as the Security Service of Ukraine, and they testified that they witnessed him not understanding this whole situation at all. I don't want to protect anybody here, but this is what I read in the official documents by the Prosecutor's office of Ukraine, and I saw what the professor from the University of Ottawa published, and I agree with him. There are possibilities and there are connections with the West in this process. I personally did not trust them on my own. I can only tell you what I witnessed from the documents. But I agree that there's the connection to this massacre from the inside of Maidan and from the people who organized this from Maidan and the coup--and not from the people in the Ukraine government because this was the last thing they needed to happen in Ukraine.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/07/13/bidens-corruption-led-to-ukraines-destruction-fmr-kiev-diplomat/

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Andrii Telizhenko:

Quote:

---

What I can tell you is when I went to work in the Prosecutor's office afterwards, I saw the Maidan case and it was in documents. The first case, because then they changed them a couple of times, and from the original case which I saw, Yanukovych's involvement in this was barely none. That's what I can tell you. He was not even in his office or in his house. He was outside of Kiev driving in three Ladas to a secure location with his bodyguards. And this is a testimony by his bodyguards who are working for the Ukraine government as the Security Service of Ukraine, and they testified that they witnessed him not understanding this whole situation at all. I don't want to protect anybody here, but this is what I read in the official documents by the Prosecutor's office of Ukraine, and I saw what the professor from the University of Ottawa published, and I agree with him. There are possibilities and there are connections with the West in this process. I personally did not trust them on my own. I can only tell you what I witnessed from the documents. But I agree that there's the connection to this massacre from the inside of Maidan and from the people who organized this from Maidan and the coup--and not from the people in the Ukraine government because this was the last thing they needed to happen in Ukraine.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/07/13/bidens-corruption-led-to-ukraines-destruction-fmr-kiev-diplomat/

---

---

LOL. Good grief.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

VY never claimed he fled for his life.

No, his party voted unanimously to oust him.

---

Such a vote would not have been possible since the requisite party members weren't present. The situation was too volatile after the violence at Maidan Square, which we now know was most likely instigated by our right-wing militia friends.

Yanukovych requested protection from Russia "to ensure his personal security from extremists' actions," stating that he and his supporters were receiving threats of "inflicting bodily harm."

---

They convicted the people responsible for the Maiden killings. Found their weapons and everything. A few they imprisoned, until they were traded to Russia in a prisoner exchange, while the remainder fled and remain in Russia having been granted passports and citizenship.

---

That trial was a sham for any number of reasons. The majority of wounded protesters testified that they were shot from Maidan-controlled areas or saw snipers there. A minority believed that they were shot by police, but in most cases their testimony was inconsistent with video and forensic evidence.

Video evidence and testimony showed that almost all protester deaths happened before police snipers arrived, with orders to stop the mass shooting. It did stop almost immediately, whereupon the police themselves came under fire from Maidan locations.

Even the government concluded that nearly half the victims weren't shot from police positions. In those cases there were simply no charges filed. This may have something to do with the fact that blanket immunity was granted to all Maidan participants, so none of them were ever investigated.

So yeah, the kangaroo court may have convicted some people. But the people responsible for the bloodshed at Maidan? Don't bet on it.

---

They literally found the guns that they ditched in a pond that matched the caliber and ballistics. The location disclosed by one of the participants no less. They had video of the shooters at trial. They only questioned it because some were wearing masks or unclear images. Thats the reason only 48 killings were pinned on the specific officers. What they all had was Berkut police uniforms. Do you even realize how many Berkut police were convicted beyond the primary Maiden massacre for other beatings and killings, yet have found their way to Russia?

The protesters with arms were the "titushky" that were coordinated by Armen Sarkisyan and were counter protesters to Maiden. He's the guy I posted an article about who was assassinated in Moscow earlier this week.

This false flag madness is straight Russian disinformation and not supported by the actual facts. This was an actual 5 year investigation, and the only frustration from prosecutors was that the suspect/guilty kept getting traded to Russia or given lighter sentences.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

VY never claimed he fled for his life.

No, his party voted unanimously to oust him.

---

Such a vote would not have been possible since the requisite party members weren't present. The situation was too volatile after the violence at Maidan Square, which we now know was most likely instigated by our right-wing militia friends.

Yanukovych requested protection from Russia "to ensure his personal security from extremists' actions," stating that he and his supporters were receiving threats of "inflicting bodily harm."

---

They convicted the people responsible for the Maiden killings. Found their weapons and everything. A few they imprisoned, until they were traded to Russia in a prisoner exchange, while the remainder fled and remain in Russia having been granted passports and citizenship.

---

That trial was a sham for any number of reasons. The majority of wounded protesters testified that they were shot from Maidan-controlled areas or saw snipers there. A minority believed that they were shot by police, but in most cases their testimony was inconsistent with video and forensic evidence.

Video evidence and testimony showed that almost all protester deaths happened before police snipers arrived, with orders to stop the mass shooting. It did stop almost immediately, whereupon the police themselves came under fire from Maidan locations.

Even the government concluded that nearly half the victims weren't shot from police positions. In those cases there were simply no charges filed. This may have something to do with the fact that blanket immunity was granted to all Maidan participants, so none of them were ever investigated.

So yeah, the kangaroo court may have convicted some people. But the people responsible for the bloodshed at Maidan? Don't bet on it.

---

They literally found the guns that they ditched in a pond that matched the caliber and ballistics. The location disclosed by one of the participants no less. They had video of the shooters at trial…

---

10 years on and the matter is still open….and ongoing

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

VY never claimed he fled for his life.

No, his party voted unanimously to oust him.

---

Such a vote would not have been possible since the requisite party members weren't present. The situation was too volatile after the violence at Maidan Square, which we now know was most likely instigated by our right-wing militia friends.

Yanukovych requested protection from Russia "to ensure his personal security from extremists' actions," stating that he and his supporters were receiving threats of "inflicting bodily harm."

---

They convicted the people responsible for the Maiden killings. Found their weapons and everything. A few they imprisoned, until they were traded to Russia in a prisoner exchange, while the remainder fled and remain in Russia having been granted passports and citizenship.

---

That trial was a sham for any number of reasons. The majority of wounded protesters testified that they were shot from Maidan-controlled areas or saw snipers there. A minority believed that they were shot by police, but in most cases their testimony was inconsistent with video and forensic evidence.

Video evidence and testimony showed that almost all protester deaths happened before police snipers arrived, with orders to stop the mass shooting. It did stop almost immediately, whereupon the police themselves came under fire from Maidan locations.

Even the government concluded that nearly half the victims weren't shot from police positions. In those cases there were simply no charges filed. This may have something to do with the fact that blanket immunity was granted to all Maidan participants, so none of them were ever investigated.

So yeah, the kangaroo court may have convicted some people. But the people responsible for the bloodshed at Maidan? Don't bet on it.

---

They literally found the guns that they ditched in a pond that matched the caliber and ballistics. The location disclosed by one of the participants no less. They had video of the shooters at trial…

---

10 years on and the matter is still open….and ongoing

---

Sadovnyk fled to Russia in 2014. I'm assuming that the "other 2" mentioned are the ones who also fled to Russia.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

VY never claimed he fled for his life.

No, his party voted unanimously to oust him.

---

Such a vote would not have been possible since the requisite party members weren't present. The situation was too volatile after the violence at Maidan Square, which we now know was most likely instigated by our right-wing militia friends.

Yanukovych requested protection from Russia "to ensure his personal security from extremists' actions," stating that he and his supporters were receiving threats of "inflicting bodily harm."

---

They convicted the people responsible for the Maiden killings. Found their weapons and everything. A few they imprisoned, until they were traded to Russia in a prisoner exchange, while the remainder fled and remain in Russia having been granted passports and citizenship.

---

That trial was a sham for any number of reasons. The majority of wounded protesters testified that they were shot from Maidan-controlled areas or saw snipers there. A minority believed that they were shot by police, but in most cases their testimony was inconsistent with video and forensic evidence.

Video evidence and testimony showed that almost all protester deaths happened before police snipers arrived, with orders to stop the mass shooting. It did stop almost immediately, whereupon the police themselves came under fire from Maidan locations.

Even the government concluded that nearly half the victims weren't shot from police positions. In those cases there were simply no charges filed. This may have something to do with the fact that blanket immunity was granted to all Maidan participants, so none of them were ever investigated.

So yeah, the kangaroo court may have convicted some people. But the people responsible for the bloodshed at Maidan? Don't bet on it.

---

They literally found the guns that they ditched in a pond that matched the caliber and ballistics. The location disclosed by one of the participants no less. They had video of the shooters at trial…

---

10 years on and the matter is still open….and ongoing

---

Sadovnyk fled to Russia in 2014. I'm assuming that the "other 2" mentioned are the ones who also fled to Russia.

---

I would assume that as well

Sam Lowry said:

---

From a poll of Ukrainians in February 2014, published by the Kyiv Post:

45% supported the Maidan protests.
48% opposed them.

45% supported VY's decision to postpone the EU agreement.
42% opposed it.

17% had participated in Maidan-related activities.
81% had not.

3% were willing to join armed opposition to VY.
1% were willing to personally seize government buildings or block roads.

The narrative that some of you keep repeating--of a spontaneous, "democratic," mass uprising against a despised autocrat--is classic US propaganda. It's the same narrative they use every time. It's what they've been doing for decades. It has nothing to do with reality.

---

And while we're talking polls, by March 2014, less than 5% supported VY.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

I'd love to see some articles on all the PORs and their families attacked and all of them fleeing to Russia.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

From a poll of Ukrainians in February 2014, published by the Kyiv Post:

45% supported the Maidan protests.
48% opposed them.

45% supported VY's decision to postpone the EU agreement.
42% opposed it.

17% had participated in Maidan-related activities.
81% had not.

3% were willing to join armed opposition to VY.
1% were willing to personally seize government buildings or block roads.

The narrative that some of you keep repeating--of a spontaneous, "democratic," mass uprising against a despised autocrat--is classic US propaganda. It's the same narrative they use every time. It's what they've been doing for decades. It has nothing to do with reality.

---

And while we're talking polls, by March 2014, less than 5% supported VY.

---

Would be interesting to see who ran that supposed poll

Throughout his career is maintained a strong half of the country supporting him.

[After his defeat in the 2004 elections, few believed he would be able to come back victorious. Yet he won the presidency in 2010 with 48.89% of the vote, receiving three percent more than Tymoshenko

And he maintained a strong level of support from those Ukrainians who wanted close ties to Moscow

[Yanukovych, in attempting to strengthen the country's ties with Moscow, signed... agreementsthe Kharkiv Pactwith then-President of Russia Dmitry Medvedev on April 21, 2010. The document prolonged the stay of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in Crimea for another 25 years up until 2042 in exchange for a 30% discount on gas deliveries.

The deal also allowed Russia to station its troops in Sevastopol, Crimea. Russia's Black Sea Fleet took an integral part in Russia's 2014 occupation of Crimea.

Yanukovych also made attempts to distance Ukraine from its national identity, stressing that the Russian language was being "too politicized" and that a so-called "Russian-speaking minority" needed to be protected.

In 2012, Yanukovych's government enforced a new so-called language law that allowed using Russian as an official language, particularly in regions where the number of Russian speakers was more than 10 percent.]

https://kyivindependent.com/viktor-yanukovych-ukraines-scandal-ridden-ex-president/

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

From a poll of Ukrainians in February 2014, published by the Kyiv Post:

45% supported the Maidan protests.
48% opposed them.

45% supported VY's decision to postpone the EU agreement.
42% opposed it.

17% had participated in Maidan-related activities.
81% had not.

3% were willing to join armed opposition to VY.
1% were willing to personally seize government buildings or block roads.

The narrative that some of you keep repeating--of a spontaneous, "democratic," mass uprising against a despised autocrat--is classic US propaganda. It's the same narrative they use every time. It's what they've been doing for decades. It has nothing to do with reality.

---

And while we're talking polls, by March 2014, less than 5% supported VY.

---

Would be interesting to see who ran that supposed poll

Throughout his career is maintained a strong half of the country supporting him.

[After his defeat in the 2004 elections, few believed he would be able to come back victorious. Yet he won the presidency in 2010 with 48.89% of the vote, receiving three percent more than Tymoshenko

And he maintained a strong level of support from those Ukrainians who wanted close ties to Moscow

[Yanukovych, in attempting to strengthen the country's ties with Moscow, signed... agreementsthe Kharkiv Pactwith then-President of Russia Dmitry Medvedev on April 21, 2010. The document prolonged the stay of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in Crimea for another 25 years up until 2042 in exchange for a 30% discount on gas deliveries.

The deal also allowed Russia to station its troops in Sevastopol, Crimea. Russia's Black Sea Fleet took an integral part in Russia's 2014 occupation of Crimea.

Yanukovych also made attempts to distance Ukraine from its national identity, stressing that the Russian language was being "too politicized" and that a so-called "Russian-speaking minority" needed to be protected.

In 2012, Yanukovych's government enforced a new so-called language law that allowed using Russian as an official language, particularly in regions where the number of Russian speakers was more than 10 percent.]

https://kyivindependent.com/viktor-yanukovych-ukraines-scandal-ridden-ex-president/

---

Killing women and children, imprisoning opponents, backing out of popular EU deal, engaging in nepotism on steroids, limiting free press, and unprecedented (even for Ukraine) cronyism and corruption will do that.

Which also is why his own party expelled him in March.

Edit: And here is the pollster:

Razumkov Centre (Ukrainian: ), or fully the Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies named after Olexander Razumkov (Ukrainian: ), is a Ukrainian non-governmental public policy think tank.
The Razumkov Center carries out research in domestic, economic, social and foreign policy, state administration, energy, land relations, international and regional security, and national security and defence.
At the International Economic Forum in Krynica-Zdrj, Poland in 2004, the Razumkov Centre received one of the awards in the category "Non-Governmental Organization of the year in Central and Eastern Europe 2004".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razumkov_Centre#cite_note-1][1][/url]
In 2009, The Washington Post newspaper referred to Razumkov Centre as "a top research institute."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razumkov_Centre#cite_note-2][2][/url]
According to the 2016 Global Go to Think Tank Index Report[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razumkov_Centre#cite_note-3][3][/url] published by the Lauder Institute at the University of Pennsylvania, the Razumkov Centre was ranked as follows:

• 36 among the Top 150 Think Tanks Worldwide (non-US)
• 55 among the Top 175 Think Tanks Worldwide (including the US)
• 5th among the Top 90 Think Tanks in Central and Eastern Europe.

Until the year, 2000, the think tank was named Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razumkov_Centre#cite_note-:0-4][4][/url] Almost a year after the death of Olexander Razumkov, a former employee, its founders decided to attach his surname to the think tank's name.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razumkov_Centre#cite_note-:0-4][4][/url]


And here's the public disavowal by the POR: Oleksandr Yefremov, parliamentary faction leader, stated the party and its members "strongly condemn[ed] the criminal orders that led to human victims, an empty state treasury, huge debts, shame before the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the entire world."

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

VY never claimed he fled for his life.

No, his party voted unanimously to oust him.

---

Such a vote would not have been possible since the requisite party members weren't present. The situation was too volatile after the violence at Maidan Square, which we now know was most likely instigated by our right-wing militia friends.

Yanukovych requested protection from Russia "to ensure his personal security from extremists' actions," stating that he and his supporters were receiving threats of "inflicting bodily harm."

---

They convicted the people responsible for the Maiden killings. Found their weapons and everything. A few they imprisoned, until they were traded to Russia in a prisoner exchange, while the remainder fled and remain in Russia having been granted passports and citizenship.

---

That trial was a sham for any number of reasons. The majority of wounded protesters testified that they were shot from Maidan-controlled areas or saw snipers there. A minority believed that they were shot by police, but in most cases their testimony was inconsistent with video and forensic evidence.

Video evidence and testimony showed that almost all protester deaths happened before police snipers arrived, with orders to stop the mass shooting. It did stop almost immediately, whereupon the police themselves came under fire from Maidan locations.

Even the government concluded that nearly half the victims weren't shot from police positions. In those cases there were simply no charges filed. This may have something to do with the fact that blanket immunity was granted to all Maidan participants, so none of them were ever investigated.

So yeah, the kangaroo court may have convicted some people. But the people responsible for the bloodshed at Maidan? Don't bet on it.

---

They literally found the guns that they ditched in a pond that matched the caliber and ballistics. The location disclosed by one of the participants no less. They had video of the shooters at trial. They only questioned it because some were wearing masks or unclear images. Thats the reason only 48 killings were pinned on the specific officers. What they all had was Berkut police uniforms. Do you even realize how many Berkut police were convicted beyond the primary Maiden massacre for other beatings and killings, yet have found their way to Russia?

The protesters with arms were the "titushky" that were coordinated by Armen Sarkisyan and were counter protesters to Maiden. He's the guy I posted an article about who was assassinated in Moscow earlier this week.

This false flag madness is straight Russian disinformation and not supported by the actual facts. This was an actual 5 year investigation, and the only frustration from prosecutors was that the suspect/guilty kept getting traded to Russia or given lighter sentences.

---

The investigation produced zero evidence that the Yanukovych government hired titushki or any other third party groups, Russian, Ukrainian, or otherwise to do violence against protesters. Literally not a scrap.

This Sarkisyan story has been flickering around the surface of pro-Ukrainian media for a while, but there's no depth to it. Real reporters deal in details--names, dates, locations. Check your sources, and I'm guessing you won't find any. It's all conclusory statements by journalists and vague quotes from Ukrainian officials (Sarkisyan is "known for" this or "accused of" that).

What I'm saying isn't Russian spin. It's the overwhelming consensus among independent analysts. Even Zelensky admitted there are still questions.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

From a poll of Ukrainians in February 2014, published by the Kyiv Post:

45% supported the Maidan protests.
48% opposed them.

45% supported VY's decision to postpone the EU agreement.
42% opposed it.

17% had participated in Maidan-related activities.
81% had not.

3% were willing to join armed opposition to VY.
1% were willing to personally seize government buildings or block roads.

The narrative that some of you keep repeating--of a spontaneous, "democratic," mass uprising against a despised autocrat--is classic US propaganda. It's the same narrative they use every time. It's what they've been doing for decades. It has nothing to do with reality.

---

And while we're talking polls, by March 2014, less than 5% supported VY.

---

Doesn't sound like any poll I've seen, but in any case VY agreed to elections later that year. If he was that unpopular, he'd have been gone soon enough.

Not liking your president isn't the same as supporting the overthrow of your republic (despite how some of our MAGA posters may sound sometimes).

sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

I'd love to see some articles on all the PORs and their families attacked and all of them fleeing to Russia.

---

Time was when people fleeing Nazis found refuge in the West. The fact they're running the other way says more about us than anything else, sadly.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

From a poll of Ukrainians in February 2014, published by the Kyiv Post:

45% supported the Maidan protests.
48% opposed them.

45% supported VY's decision to postpone the EU agreement.
42% opposed it.

17% had participated in Maidan-related activities.
81% had not.

3% were willing to join armed opposition to VY.
1% were willing to personally seize government buildings or block roads.

The narrative that some of you keep repeating--of a spontaneous, "democratic," mass uprising against a despised autocrat--is classic US propaganda. It's the same narrative they use every time. It's what they've been doing for decades. It has nothing to do with reality.

---

And while we're talking polls, by March 2014, less than 5% supported VY.

---

Would be interesting to see who ran that supposed poll

Throughout his career is maintained a strong half of the country supporting him.

[After his defeat in the 2004 elections, few believed he would be able to come back victorious. Yet he won the presidency in 2010 with 48.89% of the vote, receiving three percent more than Tymoshenko

And he maintained a strong level of support from those Ukrainians who wanted close ties to Moscow

[Yanukovych, in attempting to strengthen the country's ties with Moscow, signed... agreementsthe Kharkiv Pactwith then-President of Russia Dmitry Medvedev on April 21, 2010. The document prolonged the stay of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in Crimea for another 25 years up until 2042 in exchange for a 30% discount on gas deliveries.

The deal also allowed Russia to station its troops in Sevastopol, Crimea. Russia's Black Sea Fleet took an integral part in Russia's 2014 occupation of Crimea.

Yanukovych also made attempts to distance Ukraine from its national identity, stressing that the Russian language was being "too politicized" and that a so-called "Russian-speaking minority" needed to be protected.

In 2012, Yanukovych's government enforced a new so-called language law that allowed using Russian as an official language, particularly in regions where the number of Russian speakers was more than 10 percent.]

https://kyivindependent.com/viktor-yanukovych-ukraines-scandal-ridden-ex-president/

---

Killing women and children, imprisoning opponents, backing out of popular EU deal, engaging in nepotism on steroids, limiting free press, and unprecedented (even for Ukraine) cronyism and corruption will do that.

---

Sounds like you're confusing Yanukovych with Zelensky, too. There's never been any evidence that VY ordered any killings at Maidan. Zelensky of course has killed thousands of Ukrainians, for example with his saturation bombing of civilian neighborhoods in Donetsk.

The EU deal was not canceled; it was postponed. VY was negotiating with both sides and trying to get the best deal possible, as well he should have. It was the West that refused to deal further. I've already addressed the documented campaign by Western NGOs to exaggerate accusations of corruption against VY and minimize those against his opponents. Obviously those efforts are still paying dividends.

As for political opponents and a free press, at least they existed under Yanukovych. Zelensky has literally banned opposing political parties, and unlike VY he actually kills journalists.

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

---

Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

---

Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

---

sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

---

lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

---

uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

---

When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

---

There was no coup.
.

---

Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

---

Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

---

It was led by small militia groups, and much of VY's party fled along with him. That's why the vote was illegal.

I love this idea that a leader isn't being overthrown if he flees for his life. I guess it was just pure whimsy that caused him to abandon his post while the mob coincidentally raged outside the gates...ha ha.

---

VY never claimed he fled for his life.

No, his party voted unanimously to oust him.

---

Such a vote would not have been possible since the requisite party members weren't present. The situation was too volatile after the violence at Maidan Square, which we now know was most likely instigated by our right-wing militia friends.

Yanukovych requested protection from Russia "to ensure his personal security from extremists' actions," stating that he and his supporters were receiving threats of "inflicting bodily harm."

---

They convicted the people responsible for the Maiden killings. Found their weapons and everything. A few they imprisoned, until they were traded to Russia in a prisoner exchange, while the remainder fled and remain in Russia having been granted passports and citizenship.

---

That trial was a sham for any number of reasons. The majority of wounded protesters testified that they were shot from Maidan-controlled areas or saw snipers there. A minority believed that they were shot by police, but in most cases their testimony was inconsistent with video and forensic evidence.

Video evidence and testimony showed that almost all protester deaths happened before police snipers arrived, with orders to stop the mass shooting. It did stop almost immediately, whereupon the police themselves came under fire from Maidan locations.

Even the government concluded that nearly half the victims weren't shot from police positions. In those cases there were simply no charges filed. This may have something to do with the fact that blanket immunity was granted to all Maidan participants, so none of them were ever investigated.

So yeah, the kangaroo court may have convicted some people. But the people responsible for the bloodshed at Maidan? Don't bet on it.

---

They literally found the guns that they ditched in a pond that matched the caliber and ballistics. The location disclosed by one of the participants no less. They had video of the shooters at trial. They only questioned it because some were wearing masks or unclear images. Thats the reason only 48 killings were pinned on the specific officers. What they all had was Berkut police uniforms. Do you even realize how many Berkut police were convicted beyond the primary Maiden massacre for other beatings and killings, yet have found their way to Russia?

The protesters with arms were the "titushky" that were coordinated by Armen Sarkisyan and were counter protesters to Maiden. He's the guy I posted an article about who was assassinated in Moscow earlier this week.

This false flag madness is straight Russian disinformation and not supported by the actual facts. This was an actual 5 year investigation, and the only frustration from prosecutors was that the suspect/guilty kept getting traded to Russia or given lighter sentences.

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The investigation produced zero evidence that the Yanukovych government hired titushki or any other third party groups, Russian, Ukrainian, or otherwise to do violence against protesters. Literally not a scrap.

This Sarkisyan story has been flickering around the surface of pro-Ukrainian media for a while, but there's no depth to it. Real reporters deal in details--names, dates, locations. Check your sources, and I'm guessing you won't find any. It's all conclusory statements by journalists and vague quotes from Ukrainian officials (Sarkisyan is "known for" this or "accused of" that).

What I'm saying isn't Russian spin. It's the overwhelming consensus among independent analysts. Even Zelensky admitted there are still questions.

---

You can't be serious Sam. It is straight Russian disinformation or nutball conspiracies, not "independent" analysis. There are a ton of sources, articles, testimony, etc. I just don't think it matters to you. Do they have a smoking gun on Yanukovych's direct involvement? No. In fact, the more likely scenario is he was under pressure from the Russians to suppress the riots, and they let things get out of control. They likely did it through his security chief who was a loyal Russian asset.

It's well known what Sarkisyan did during Maiden. He was always a henchman for Russia and their puppet regime. Obviously made too many enemies judging from the nature of his demise.

And there are still questions because over a hundred people died on those few fateful days in February and answers for only 48 of them have been provided. The search would continue, but the main suspects all fled or have been prisoner exchanged and are under the protection of Russia.

---

BBC is about as far from Russian propaganda as you can get. It's not just that Yanukovych wasn't directly involved. There was no evidence that anyone in the Yanukovych government was involved. And before you cry "Russia," the Ukrainian prosecutor in charge of the Maidan investigation expressly stated that there was no evidence of involvement by the Russian government or Russian snipers, either. What they did find was evidence that at least some of the protesters were killed or wounded by shots fired from the Ukraine Hotel and other Maidan-controlled locations.

There's no reason the Ukrainians couldn't charge people who fled to Russia. In some cases they did. But in most cases no charges were filed because they refused to investigate what the evidence clearly suggested. In fact they were prohibited from doing so. The new government passed a law granting immunity to all Maidan participants, which alone should be enough to cast serious doubt on the trial results.

Many of the key initial findings were also reversed, i.e. falsified, including the ballistic test results you referred to. Dozens of earlier tests showed that ballistics didn't match rifles used by the police. Video footage showed that officers either weren't present or weren't firing at the relevant times. Examination of victims' wounds showed that they were shot from elevated locations and from the back or the side, not from the front at ground level where the Berkut officers were.

What the investigation and trial actually found is completely different from what you're reading in pro-Ukrainian media.

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io

— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025

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Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!

The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.

.

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Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.

Most American either for that matter

Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations

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sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.

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lol Nothing landed in our lap

The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess

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uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.

There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.

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When you sponsor a regime change operation that over throws the guy who got the majority of the votes you are in fact destabilizing the country and its political system

And you are subverting democracy

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There was no coup.
.

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Of course there was a coup

The whole world watched as violent street protests drove the elected President from power in Kyiv

The involvement of the USG is up for debate.

But strong evidence suggests their fingers were all over it….

USAID was used to fund the Ukrainian color revolution in 2014 and kick off the start of a massive war against Russia that has been raging since then. https://t.co/PSI1oLgngF

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 2, 2025

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Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group . . . often by the military.

Sudden? No. months of citizen protest.
Military-led? No.
Small group? No.
Overthrow? No. VY fled; the legislature voted overwhelmingly to oust, including his own party.

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1. Websters does not define a coup as needing to be military led

Often they are not

When the Nazis tried to take over the Bavarian government that was led by Nazi party non-official milita groups

Same as when the Bolsheviks took power in Russia during the October Revolution

[Coup: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics

especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group]

The group/protestors in Kyiv was small compare to the 40 million person Ukrainian political society.

Thousands of Nazis or thousands of Bolsheviks seizing power is still a small group....

2. Again, you won't deal with the facts. The Ukrainian parliament did not even have the votes needed to remove him from power.....it was an illegal vote via the actual Ukrainian constitution.

They did no reach the 338 votes needed for removal, did not get a case before the Ukrainian Constitutional Court as was required by law, and did not follow the rule in the Constitution about the successor process.

[The 1996 and the 2004 constitutions are uniform when it comes to the reasons for removing a president, with Article 111 stating the parliament has the right to initiate a procedure of impeachment "if he commits treason or other crime."

However, it is not clear that the hasty February 22 vote upholds constitutional guidelines, which call for a review of the case by Ukraine's Constitutional Court and a three-fourths majority vote by the Verkhovna Rada -- i.e., 338 lawmakers.

Pro-Yanukovych lawmakers may also argue that under the 1996 constitution, it should have been the current acting prime minister, Serhiy Arbuzov, who assumed power after Yanukovych's removal.]

https://www.rferl.org/a/was-yanukovychs-ouster-constitutional/25274346.html

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LOL you're dancing on the head of a pin. Yanukovich did not leave the country after being removed from office. He fled the country when his police & military were unable to disperse massive public demonstrations, despite firing into crowds of unarmed citizens. THEN his replacement, both interim and subsequent elections, were done according to constitutional processes.

Not long ago, we had a city councilman who just quit coming to meetings. We called, urged a return, etc....and finally had to say "you need to either return or resign, or we will have to remove you." Resignation tendered. Seat filled per charter. Point of that is to note that when a elected official disappears, you don't elect/appoint a replacement. You first have to declare the seat vacant. The designation of a vacancy is a necessary procedural step to kick off the replacement process. Disagreement over details of processes of all that does not a coup make. Otherwise, every lawsuit against a Presidential administration is a coup. Ukrainians across the spectrum were trying to follow constitutional processes, NOT use force to install a new government.

Again. The narrative that USAID overthrew the Ukrainian government is completely baseless. Not a fact in view supporting comma or phrase within the narrative.

ATL Bear said:

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Supporting independent media is a noble pursuit, particularly when you're talking about state controlled entities that suppress and execute journalists that speak against those in power. The problem is what we started to promote as necessarily "independent" got off the rails I.e. LGBT initiatives, counter culture, etc.

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Nah that's how we get regime changes and media outlets trying to suppress the will of the people in those countries. There's a long history of independent media trying to suppress and quell populist movements, aka movements of the people against the corruption of their governments.

Zelensky will never step down from power.

Yall really need to understand that both Russia and Ukraine are extremely corrupt, but you've drank the kool aid about Ukraine from media propagandists paid through USAID.

Admitting that Ukraine is corrupt doesn't mean you're a Russian shill or that you're in favor of Russia. You're allowed to dislike both.

Doc Holliday said:

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Zelensky will never step down from power.

Yall really need to understand that both Russia and Ukraine are extremely corrupt, but you've drank the kool aid about Ukraine from media propagandists paid through USAID.

Admitting that Ukraine is corrupt doesn't mean you're a Russian shill or that you're in favor of Russia. You're allowed to dislike both.

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big difference between admitting Ukraine has long been corrupt and thinking Zelensky will nerve step down from power. I believe he'll end the Martial Law as soon as the war is over and hold elections. He may win again, he may not. But I'm not going to fault him for declaring Martial Law after getting wholesale invaded. Uniting his country was and had to be primary focus at that juncture, and he did. Also, appreciating Zelensky doesn't mean supporting the idiot who just left office in our country. Some of y'all don't understand that they are not one and the same.

Doc Holliday said:

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Zelensky will never step down from power.

Yall really need to understand that both Russia and Ukraine are extremely corrupt, but you've drank the kool aid about Ukraine from media propagandists paid through USAID.

Admitting that Ukraine is corrupt doesn't mean you're a Russian shill or that you're in favor of Russia. You're allowed to dislike both.

---

It's not kool aid. It's just recognizing that there is no comparison between Russia and Ukraine.

One is a friend, the other is an enemy who fights us in every corner of the world economically, politically, intel, and defense.

One is friends with our friends, the other is friends with our enemies - Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, China, etc.

One is top 1/3 on the world free press index (and amazingly, improving 2022 to present), the other is near the bottom.

One is one of the most Christian countries in Europe, the other is one of the least.

One has demonstrably reduced corruption (public firings and arrests of even political allies), while the other is more corrupt than ever before.

One is defending its freedom and sovereignty, the other invaded.

One has a democratically elected leader elected in an internationally recognized free and secure election, the other has a dictator who literally murdered political enemies.

One has no oligarch or otherwise billionaire family members, while the other has notorious nepotism.

One has no ties to organized crime, the other has longtime ties to Russian mob.

One has a leader who is not a multi-billionaire, the other's leader is a multi-billionaire through corruption.

One has a leader who is not former KGB, the other has a leader who is former KGB.

As for martial law in Ukraine, it was the right move and was and is supported by all of Ukraine parliament. The people complaining about are not Ukrainians. Rather, it's Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan (who talks a big game but refused to interview Zelensky), and Poso.

sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Zelensky will never step down from power.

Yall really need to understand that both Russia and Ukraine are extremely corrupt, but you've drank the kool aid about Ukraine from media propagandists paid through USAID.

Admitting that Ukraine is corrupt doesn't mean you're a Russian shill or that you're in favor of Russia. You're allowed to dislike both.

---

It's not kool aid. It's just recognizing that there is no comparison between Russia and Ukraine.

One is a friend, the other is an enemy who fights us in every corner of the world economically, politically, intel, and defense.

One is friends with our friends, the other is friends with our enemies - Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, China, etc.

One is top 1/3 on the world free press index (and amazingly, improving 2022 to present), the other is near the bottom.

One is one of the most Christian countries in Europe, the other is one of the least.

One has demonstrably reduced corruption (public firings and arrests of even political allies), while the other is more corrupt than ever before.

One is defending its freedom and sovereignty, the other invaded.

One has a democratically elected leader elected in an internationally recognized free and secure election, the other has a dictator who literally murdered political enemies.

One has no oligarch or otherwise billionaire family members, while the other has notorious nepotism.

One has no ties to organized crime, the other has longtime ties to Russian mob.

One has a leader who is not a multi-billionaire, the other's leader is a multi-billionaire through corruption.

One has a leader who is not former KGB, the other has a leader who is former KGB.

As for martial law in Ukraine, it was the right move and was and is supported by all of Ukraine parliament. The people complaining about are not Ukrainians. Rather, it's Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan (who talks a big game but refused to interview Zelensky), and Poso.

---

Riiiight.... they only had USAID controlling 9 out of 10 of the news channels in Ukraine…because that's what their people want? They can't find $100B we gave them, even though they desperately need it for war and that's not sketchy whatsoever…

NATO won't give them membership because they're not corrupt. Yeah that makes sense…

For sure Russia is worse, I wont argue with that. But what I won't do is pretend that Ukraine isn't corrupt. Are you trying to make the case that they're not corrupt?

Got a feeling yall hate Trump.

‼️🇷🇺🇺🇸 "They(Ukraine) may be Russians someday, or they may not be. Anyways I want our money back"

– US President, Donald Trump

Hahaha, what a statement, the Ukrainian media is crying at the moment. pic.twitter.com/miqdtJeHt4

— Spetsnaℤ 007 🇷🇺 (@Alex_Oloyede2) February 11, 2025

BTW, there's going to be a territory swap as part of the peace deal…which could have happened from the beginning but we allowed hundreds of thousands of VERY young men to die. Congrats.

Doc Holliday said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Zelensky will never step down from power.

Yall really need to understand that both Russia and Ukraine are extremely corrupt, but you've drank the kool aid about Ukraine from media propagandists paid through USAID.

Admitting that Ukraine is corrupt doesn't mean you're a Russian shill or that you're in favor of Russia. You're allowed to dislike both.

---

It's not kool aid. It's just recognizing that there is no comparison between Russia and Ukraine.

One is a friend, the other is an enemy who fights us in every corner of the world economically, politically, intel, and defense.

One is friends with our friends, the other is friends with our enemies - Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, China, etc.

One is top 1/3 on the world free press index (and amazingly, improving 2022 to present), the other is near the bottom.

One is one of the most Christian countries in Europe, the other is one of the least.

One has demonstrably reduced corruption (public firings and arrests of even political allies), while the other is more corrupt than ever before.

One is defending its freedom and sovereignty, the other invaded.

One has a democratically elected leader elected in an internationally recognized free and secure election, the other has a dictator who literally murdered political enemies.

One has no oligarch or otherwise billionaire family members, while the other has notorious nepotism.

One has no ties to organized crime, the other has longtime ties to Russian mob.

One has a leader who is not a multi-billionaire, the other's leader is a multi-billionaire through corruption.

One has a leader who is not former KGB, the other has a leader who is former KGB.

As for martial law in Ukraine, it was the right move and was and is supported by all of Ukraine parliament. The people complaining about are not Ukrainians. Rather, it's Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan (who talks a big game but refused to interview Zelensky), and Poso.

---

Riiiight.... they only had USAID controlling 9 out of 10 of the news channels in Ukraine…because that's what their people want? They can't find $100B we gave them, even though they desperately need it for war and that's not sketchy whatsoever…

NATO won't give them membership because they're not corrupt. Yeah that makes sense…

For sure Russia is worse, I wont argue with that. But what I won't do is pretend that Ukraine isn't corrupt. Are you trying to make the case that they're not corrupt?

---

Ukraine is corrupt. Eastern Europe has a long history of corruption.

Ukraine is one of the few that has cracked down on corruption. Zelesnsky ran on an anti-corruption platform and has walked the walk. Still more to do no doubt. But Russia wrote the book on corruption, and Putin is a featured chapter.

The $100B story has been debunked.

USAID controlling news channels? I'm not familiar with that story. But I'll go back to what I posted earlier. Ukraine has rocketed up to the top 3 in the world press freedom rankings, and amazingly, has climbed since the invasion.

Doc Holliday said:

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Got a feeling yall hate Trump.

‼️🇷🇺🇺🇸 "They(Ukraine) may be Russians someday, or they may not be. Anyways I want our money back"

– US President, Donald Trump

Hahaha, what a statement, the Ukrainian media is crying at the moment. pic.twitter.com/miqdtJeHt4

— Spetsnaℤ 007 🇷🇺 (@Alex_Oloyede2) February 11, 2025

BTW, there's going to be a territory swap as part of the peace deal…which could have happened from the beginning but we allowed hundreds of thousands of VERY young men to die. Congrats.

---

I actually commend Trump. He's making crazy statements about both sides. That's what he does.

I told anyone who would listen that there was zero chance Trump would pull Ukraine funding. He knows how important it is.

He'll continue to say crazy things, and hopefully he'll help reach a deal.

No, it could NOT have happened from the beginning. Russia demanded far more.

sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Zelensky will never step down from power.

Yall really need to understand that both Russia and Ukraine are extremely corrupt, but you've drank the kool aid about Ukraine from media propagandists paid through USAID.

Admitting that Ukraine is corrupt doesn't mean you're a Russian shill or that you're in favor of Russia. You're allowed to dislike both.

---

It's not kool aid. It's just recognizing that there is no comparison between Russia and Ukraine.

One is a friend, the other is an enemy who fights us in every corner of the world economically, politically, intel, and defense.

One is friends with our friends, the other is friends with our enemies - Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, China, etc.

One is top 1/3 on the world free press index (and amazingly, improving 2022 to present), the other is near the bottom.

One is one of the most Christian countries in Europe, the other is one of the least.

One has demonstrably reduced corruption (public firings and arrests of even political allies), while the other is more corrupt than ever before.

One is defending its freedom and sovereignty, the other invaded.

One has a democratically elected leader elected in an internationally recognized free and secure election, the other has a dictator who literally murdered political enemies.

One has no oligarch or otherwise billionaire family members, while the other has notorious nepotism.

One has no ties to organized crime, the other has longtime ties to Russian mob.

One has a leader who is not a multi-billionaire, the other's leader is a multi-billionaire through corruption.

One has a leader who is not former KGB, the other has a leader who is former KGB.

As for martial law in Ukraine, it was the right move and was and is supported by all of Ukraine parliament. The people complaining about are not Ukrainians. Rather, it's Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan (who talks a big game but refused to interview Zelensky), and Poso.

---

Well, at least I can say I've had my dose of Uke propaganda for the year…and it's only February!

Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

Zelensky will never step down from power.

Yall really need to understand that both Russia and Ukraine are extremely corrupt, but you've drank the kool aid about Ukraine from media propagandists paid through USAID.

Admitting that Ukraine is corrupt doesn't mean you're a Russian shill or that you're in favor of Russia. You're allowed to dislike both.

---

It's not kool aid. It's just recognizing that there is no comparison between Russia and Ukraine.

One is a friend, the other is an enemy who fights us in every corner of the world economically, politically, intel, and defense.

One is friends with our friends, the other is friends with our enemies - Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, China, etc.

One is top 1/3 on the world free press index (and amazingly, improving 2022 to present), the other is near the bottom.

One is one of the most Christian countries in Europe, the other is one of the least.

One has demonstrably reduced corruption (public firings and arrests of even political allies), while the other is more corrupt than ever before.

One is defending its freedom and sovereignty, the other invaded.

One has a democratically elected leader elected in an internationally recognized free and secure election, the other has a dictator who literally murdered political enemies.

One has no oligarch or otherwise billionaire family members, while the other has notorious nepotism.

One has no ties to organized crime, the other has longtime ties to Russian mob.

One has a leader who is not a multi-billionaire, the other's leader is a multi-billionaire through corruption.

One has a leader who is not former KGB, the other has a leader who is former KGB.

As for martial law in Ukraine, it was the right move and was and is supported by all of Ukraine parliament. The people complaining about are not Ukrainians. Rather, it's Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan (who talks a big game but refused to interview Zelensky), and Poso.

---

Well, at least I can say I've had my dose of Uke propaganda for the year…and it's only February!

---

Please be specific. What is untrue?