Except for those Nazis in Mariupol right? I don't even know if you track reality at this point.Sam Lowry said:It wasn't controversial at the time to classify it as a genuine civil war. That changed as Russia became more involved and the West began revising history. One thing is certain -- there are far more citizens of Donetsk and Luhansk fighting alongside Russian forces today than fighting against them (because the latter number is at or near zero).sombear said:No. Russia and a small number of pro-Russian separatists fought for Donbas.Sam Lowry said:
The Donbas has fought for some form of autonomy or independence from Kiev since 2014. You seem to be under the impression that the territory is ours to give or not give to Russia as a "reward." That's not the reality. You can't give up what you don't have.
Why Are We in Ukraine?
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Last: 42 min ago by ATL Bear
Read Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley in 1862 for some interesting clarificationRedbrickbear said:historian said:
The Emancipation Proclamation was the beginning of a process leading to the 13th amendment. It was all very political..
Then stop saying he freed the slaves
Congress did
And he apparently didn't even want to issue the EP at all…he felt it was a necessary war measure and was apparently in a bad mood when deciding he had to do it
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Good news folks ...
— Catturd ™ (@catturd2) March 1, 2025
Europe and especially the UK will be providing everything Zelensky needs from now on to keep fighting for years and never have peace.
They'll be providing all the money and all the military weaponry. Oh yeah, and what they can't provide, Canada will be more…
Facebook Groups at; Memories of: Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Through a Texas Lens and also Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
Redbrickbear said:historian said:
The Emancipation Proclamation was the beginning of a process leading to the 13th amendment. It was all very political..
Then stop saying he freed the slaves
Congress did
And he apparently didn't even want to issue the EP at all…he felt it was a necessary war measure and was apparently in a bad mood when deciding he had to do it
That's not how our government operates. Civics 101.
He did his part. The Emancipation Proclamation was the single most important thing to start the process. Without that, it's difficult to imagine the slaves being freed anytime soon. He has earned the label "Great Emancipator."
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
historian said:Redbrickbear said:historian said:
The Emancipation Proclamation was the beginning of a process leading to the 13th amendment. It was all very political..
Then stop saying he freed the slaves
Congress did
And he apparently didn't even want to issue the EP at all…he felt it was a necessary war measure and was apparently in a bad mood when deciding he had to do it
He did his part.
By carefully crafting an executive order that freed no slaves….and specifically avoiding freeing them where he had the power to do so
Abraham Lincoln wrote a letter to Horace Greeley on August 22, 1862. In the letter, Lincoln stated that his main goal was to save the Union, not to end slavery.Redbrickbear said:historian said:Redbrickbear said:historian said:
The Emancipation Proclamation was the beginning of a process leading to the 13th amendment. It was all very political..
Then stop saying he freed the slaves
Congress did
And he apparently didn't even want to issue the EP at all…he felt it was a necessary war measure and was apparently in a bad mood when deciding he had to do it
He did his part.
By carefully crafting an executive order that freed no slaves….and specifically avoiding freeing them where he had the power to do so
Facebook Groups at; Memories of: Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Through a Texas Lens and also Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
Assassin said:Abraham Lincoln wrote a letter to Horace Greeley on August 22, 1862. In the letter, Lincoln stated that his main goal was to save the Union, not to end slavery.Redbrickbear said:historian said:Redbrickbear said:historian said:
The Emancipation Proclamation was the beginning of a process leading to the 13th amendment. It was all very political..
Then stop saying he freed the slaves
Congress did
And he apparently didn't even want to issue the EP at all…he felt it was a necessary war measure and was apparently in a bad mood when deciding he had to do it
He did his part.
By carefully crafting an executive order that freed no slaves….and specifically avoiding freeing them where he had the power to do so
That was Lincoln's primary goal from winning the 1860 election to the day he died. In the end, however, he took the lead in moving the country towards emancipation.
Lincoln remains the best president we have ever had.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
historian said:Assassin said:Abraham Lincoln wrote a letter to Horace Greeley on August 22, 1862. In the letter, Lincoln stated that his main goal was to save the Union, not to end slavery.Redbrickbear said:historian said:Redbrickbear said:historian said:
The Emancipation Proclamation was the beginning of a process leading to the 13th amendment. It was all very political..
Then stop saying he freed the slaves
Congress did
And he apparently didn't even want to issue the EP at all…he felt it was a necessary war measure and was apparently in a bad mood when deciding he had to do it
He did his part.
By carefully crafting an executive order that freed no slaves….and specifically avoiding freeing them where he had the power to do so
Lincoln remains the best president we have ever had.
Not even close
He got this county into its worst and most bloody war.
And he shredded the Constitution to win it (even though State secession is not forbidden by the US Constitution)
Bingo
“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
And none of the Europeans trust France or Germany or anyone else to be the leader of a new militarily alliance.
These three regions comprise 50% of world GDP. pic.twitter.com/9KVQGWjXDX
— Epic Maps 🗺️ (@theepicmap) July 16, 2024
Zelenskyy's life works
Did NATO puppets really send this clown to negotiate with President Trump? pic.twitter.com/TDzhIKxtQy
— DC_Draino (@DC_Draino) March 1, 2025
Facebook Groups at; Memories of: Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Through a Texas Lens and also Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
UKRAINE: Zelensky is hellbent on America’s sons and daughters dying in Ukraine. Thank God for Trump and Vance. pic.twitter.com/V9kfv1278P
— @amuse (@amuse) March 2, 2025
Facebook Groups at; Memories of: Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Through a Texas Lens and also Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Unlike the attacks on Russian Orthodox churches, that is definitely something I would expect to hear shouted from the rooftops in Western media. I haven't seen the evidence of it.sombear said:Sure, they either were murdered, imprisoned, forced out, or just plain left. Sure, I'll concede that between mid-2014 and 2022, most pro-Ukraine Donbas residents were gone.Sam Lowry said:No, I'm saying there's none of the local resistance that one would expect against a foreign "occupation." The Russians are being welcomed by a population weary of aggression from Kiev.sombear said:Russia admitted a good chunk of the early "separatists" were Russians who had crossed the border and mostly retired military or intel. And that's not even counting the actual Russian soldiers and equipment.Sam Lowry said:It wasn't controversial at the time to classify it as a genuine civil war. That changed as Russia became more involved and the West began revising history. One thing is certain -- there are far more citizens of Donetsk and Luhansk fighting alongside Russian forces today than fighting against them (because the latter number is at or near zero).sombear said:No. Russia and a small number of pro-Russian separatists fought for Donbas.Sam Lowry said:
The Donbas has fought for some form of autonomy or independence from Kiev since 2014. You seem to be under the impression that the territory is ours to give or not give to Russia as a "reward." That's not the reality. You can't give up what you don't have.
I don't know that your last statement is true. Are you saying no Ukrainians originally from Donbas are fighting for Ukraine? If so, that's crazy and demonstrably false.
Fair point, I wasn't counting the actually very small group of right-wing extremists who continue to exist with Western support. Russia has incorporated many entire battalions of Donbas militia into its army, which would not likely be done against their will (and it would be a mistake to do so anyway).ATL Bear said:Except for those Nazis in Mariupol right? I don't even know if you track reality at this point.Sam Lowry said:It wasn't controversial at the time to classify it as a genuine civil war. That changed as Russia became more involved and the West began revising history. One thing is certain -- there are far more citizens of Donetsk and Luhansk fighting alongside Russian forces today than fighting against them (because the latter number is at or near zero).sombear said:No. Russia and a small number of pro-Russian separatists fought for Donbas.Sam Lowry said:
The Donbas has fought for some form of autonomy or independence from Kiev since 2014. You seem to be under the impression that the territory is ours to give or not give to Russia as a "reward." That's not the reality. You can't give up what you don't have.
What will eventually happen, if we're lucky, is that the Ukraine war will end and after a few years you'll realize that it was a huge waste of money and lives for no real purpose. By which time you will already be advocating more of the same strategy in Taiwan. If we're not lucky, we'll get nuked sooner rather than later because "democracy."
I hope and pray that you are never introduced to reality.
You're looking at the newest signs of NATO's disintegration and still not getting it. Europe paying more means Europe having more independence.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
What's wrong with Europe having more independence, when it means we are relieved of some of the financial burden of paying a disproportionate share of their defense? Why would we NOT want other Nato members to be capable of bearing a greater share of their own defense?Sam Lowry said:You're looking at the newest signs of NATO's disintegration and still not getting it. Europe paying more means Europe having more independence.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
Nato states have alligator-armed their defense spending for many decades. I have heard all their excuses over and over throughout my adult lifetime, from within govt and without, most of which are variants of "yes, the Euros are not doing their part, but we can't just pull out and let the Soviets roll over them. It's in our interest to defend them even if they aren't doing everything they're supposed to be. They're doing something and that's enough." Every single US president has flailed at getting them to pay more. Trump finally shook them loose.
The natural order for Nato is for European members to focus on defending Europe, and the USA to focus on defending Asia. That's clearly what Trump wants to do. It's why he's forcing an end to the Ukraine War. It's why he's cajoling Nato states. Finally. They realize that their gravy train is over. #winning
Trump's strategy here is built on sound decision making - are we willing to spend whatever it takes to maintain US hegemony around the world, or are we going to adapt to a multi-polar world? The answer is pretty clear. Given our debt/deficit situation, only one of those two options is viable. Europe is as large & wealthy as we are. They should bear a greater portion of the burden of their own security. That will give us time to catch our breath (fiscally) and start transitioning our focus to Asia, where our allies there are frankly more motivated and muscular than Nato is.
Nato will not leave us.
We will not leave Nato.
It' makes too much sense for both parties to remain committed to come to each others' defense.
(Europe just needs more than the token force they currently have.)
it has meant everything to them. We're just telling them we're not going to do everything forever.Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
In a shocking transcendence of our current paradigm, Trump has simultaneously become Chamberlain and Hitler.
— Ryan Turnipseed 🦬 (@TurnipMerchant) March 1, 2025
Facebook Groups at; Memories of: Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Through a Texas Lens and also Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
The U.S. has never failed to meet its security commitments and treaty obligations
(Ukraine is not in NATO and not an enrolled ally of the USA)
historian said:
Says the 5'4 comedian turned billon dollar welfare queen
What a massive suka this little Zelensky is
(Not to mention is saying that to a 6'2 former marine from Appalachia)
Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
The U.S. has never failed to meet its security commitments and treaty obligations
(Ukraine is not in NATO and not an enrolled ally of the USA)
South Vietnam ?
KaiBear said:Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
The U.S. has never failed to meet its security commitments and treaty obligations
(Ukraine is not in NATO and not an enrolled ally of the USA)
South Vietnam ?
Good point
But not a NATO member
Your initial comment was vague in regards to being NATO specific.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
The U.S. has never failed to meet its security commitments and treaty obligations
(Ukraine is not in NATO and not an enrolled ally of the USA)
South Vietnam ?
Good point
But not a NATO member
KaiBear said:Your initial comment was vague in regards to being NATO specific.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
The U.S. has never failed to meet its security commitments and treaty obligations
(Ukraine is not in NATO and not an enrolled ally of the USA)
South Vietnam ?
Good point
But not a NATO member
It was
And South Vietnam stands out of course as being a low point for us…..but it was a unique and long term intractable guerrilla war
But at the end of the day you are right and we didn't re-enter the war as Hanoi conquered Saigon
All of the police actions or guerrilla wars have one thing in common, if you are not willing to occupy and rebuild for a good 50 years nation building does not work.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:Your initial comment was vague in regards to being NATO specific.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
The U.S. has never failed to meet its security commitments and treaty obligations
(Ukraine is not in NATO and not an enrolled ally of the USA)
South Vietnam ?
Good point
But not a NATO member
It was
And South Vietnam stands out of course as being a low point for us…..but it was a unique and long term intractable guerrilla war
But at the end of the day you are right and we didn't not re-enter the war as Hanoi conquered Saigon
It does not work period.FLBear5630 said:All of the police actions or guerrilla wars have one thing in common, if you are not willing to occupy and rebuild for a good 50 years nation building does not work.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:Your initial comment was vague in regards to being NATO specific.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
The U.S. has never failed to meet its security commitments and treaty obligations
(Ukraine is not in NATO and not an enrolled ally of the USA)
South Vietnam ?
Good point
But not a NATO member
It was
And South Vietnam stands out of course as being a low point for us…..but it was a unique and long term intractable guerrilla war
But at the end of the day you are right and we didn't not re-enter the war as Hanoi conquered Saigon
Regardless how careful. soon many civilians are kiled and the survivors always hate you.
It was a ridiculous war that the Democrats got us into. We didn't learn our lessons from the failure of the French and others there. And to avoid Laos was ridiculous. The NVA would come down from the north and hit us from the sides. I am writing a book partially about it now. Just got picked up by TCU Press.Redbrickbear said:It wasKaiBear said:Your initial comment was vague in regards to being NATO specific.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Except we just showed them that US protection means nothing.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If they do actually pay, which I highly doubt…then that means they could have been paying more all along.whiterock said:
Bingo“Europe is going to have to pay
— AGNEWSLIVE (@AMErikaNGIRLLL) March 2, 2025
to defend itself!” 💥 pic.twitter.com/wrNA0FsRYp
The EU is one of the richest regions on earth
So we all know they can pay
And we all know they won't
They can live under the umbrella of US protection and not pay more than 2% GDP a year
The U.S. has never failed to meet its security commitments and treaty obligations
(Ukraine is not in NATO and not an enrolled ally of the USA)
South Vietnam ?
Good point
But not a NATO member
And South Vietnam stands out of course as being a low point for us…..but it was a unique and long term intractable guerrilla war
But at the end of the day you are right and we didn't not re-enter the war as Hanoi conquered Saigon
Facebook Groups at; Memories of: Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Through a Texas Lens and also Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
🇺🇦🇺🇸 DUALITY OF UKRAINIANS:
— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) March 2, 2025
1) Women in Mykolaiv demand the release of the children and husbands, that were forcefully mobilized
2) Ukrainians on New York demand more weapons so Ukrainians in Ukraine be sent to war
Besides “hypocritical cowardice” I don’t know what else to say pic.twitter.com/BqfiGx00tI
Facebook Groups at; Memories of: Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Through a Texas Lens and also Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
whiterock said:uh, no. the taxpayers did not spend billions to foment instability in Ukraine. Russia did that. We did the exact opposite.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:sadly, Russia did want this fight, so it landed in our lap anyway.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Glad this guy is breaking news that was well known over 20 years ago!Redbrickbear said:USAID played a critical role in overturning the results of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election between the pro-Western candidate, Viktor Yuschenko and pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. pic.twitter.com/AnbMEy85Io
— Josiah Lippincott (@jlippincott_) February 4, 2025
The fight was very much public: Russia and its allies on one wide, the Wes on the other.
.
Most Western countries in Europe never wanted this fight.
Most American either for that matter
Nor was the U.S. government open with our people that USAID and other groups were flooding Ukraine with tax payer money to support coups and regime change operations
lol Nothing landed in our lap
The powers that be in DC spent billions of tax payer dollars and 20+ years getting us into this mess
There are things to criticize about our Ukraine policy over the last 20 years. But it is silly on every level to suggest that our actions forced Russia into a just war.
we have played the aggressor for the majority of the past 90 years so who are we to talk?
that and nato has slowly expanded since is creation and the ussr and then russia has been specifically excluded from it
they feel like they are being encroached upon - and they are
it is no different than communism spreading to cuba and our government throwing a fit when it did
That cute little stunt Kier Starmer did is already being walked back as it didn’t work and only embarrassed everyone except the USA, which now looks stronger than ever. https://t.co/uywP7GAxX0
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 2, 2025