The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

I'm not sure you "produce" a whole lot, nor pay any significant taxes. Tax cuts in this bill are ridiculous without corresponding spending reductions. The R's have NO Balls to stand up to Fatman. I would forgo a tax cut to bring down the debt if everyone else did too. Trust me, I stand to do very well on these tax cuts, but I really don't need them. Everyone has to sacrifice.

---

It would have been nice if you Boomers had sacrificed in 2008 and lost half your savings instead of kicking the can down the road, ballooning our debt to unprecedented, historic proportions, and making the next generation pay for your mistakes.

I'm in my peak earning years so every dollar you *******s steal from me is one less dollar I can invest and put towards retirement.

---

Great perspective from a guy educated at the schools we funded, driving the roads we built and using the airports we maintained.

Hate to say it, we all benefit from what others did for us.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

I'm not sure you "produce" a whole lot, nor pay any significant taxes. Tax cuts in this bill are ridiculous without corresponding spending reductions. The R's have NO Balls to stand up to Fatman. I would forgo a tax cut to bring down the debt if everyone else did too. Trust me, I stand to do very well on these tax cuts, but I really don't need them. Everyone has to sacrifice.

---

It would have been nice if you Boomers had sacrificed in 2008 and lost half your savings instead of kicking the can down the road, ballooning our debt to unprecedented, historic proportions, and making the next generation pay for your mistakes.

I'm in my peak earning years so every dollar you *******s steal from me is one less dollar I can invest and put towards retirement.

---

Great perspective from a guy educated at the schools we funded, driving the roads we built and using the airports we maintained.

Hate to say it, we all benefit from what others did for us.

---

So boomers should be celebrated for doing the absolute bare minimum?

The GG left boomers with all that without the historic national debt and inflation or the condescending attitude towards millenials or Gen Z who are doing their best despite not having the abundance of opportunity Boomers had.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

Reported by one Russian source, then contradicted by multiple Russian sources.

Ukraine's latest proposal is published for all to see.

No idea what final tally will be, but anything to exert pressure on Putin, his troops, or his citizens helps Ukraine.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

The General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has announced that after processing additional information from various sources and verifying it, total losses from Operation Spiderweb amount to 41 destroyed aircraft, including several long-range strategic bombers and other combat… pic.twitter.com/iHNz7z4s8a

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) June 3, 2025

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

---

It's not corrupt establishment Republicans who authored this bill. It was the Trump supporters in the House with substantial assistance from the Trump admin. Make no mistake - this is the spending package Trump wants.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to erroneously cast blame at "establishment" Republicans, but that's just not an accurate statement.

The strawman was maintaining I advocate higher taxes because I pointed out your hypocrisy.

sombear said:

---

The General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has announced that after processing additional information from various sources and verifying it, total losses from Operation Spiderweb amount to 41 destroyed aircraft, including several long-range strategic bombers and other combat… pic.twitter.com/iHNz7z4s8a

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) June 3, 2025

---

Good.

Too bad the false-flag Ukrainian "attack" on Putin's helicopter missed its mark. World would be better of with him dead.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

---

It's not corrupt establishment Republicans who authored this bill. It was the Trump supporters in the House with substantial assistance from the Trump admin. Make no mistake - this is the spending package Trump wants.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to erroneously cast blame at "establishment" Republicans, but that's just not an accurate statement.

The strawman was maintaining I advocate higher taxes because I pointed out your hypocrisy.

---

It isnt a strawman when the practical application of your position quite literally results in higher taxes.

Also, you failed to answer my question... but I'm accustomed to being one of the only people with enough testosterone to answer direct questions on this board.

What is your alternative?

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

Reported by one Russian source, then contradicted by multiple Russian sources.

Ukraine's latest proposal is published for all to see.

No idea what final tally will be, but anything to exert pressure on Putin, his troops, or his citizens helps Ukraine.

---

"No comment" isn't a contradiction.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

---

It's not corrupt establishment Republicans who authored this bill. It was the Trump supporters in the House with substantial assistance from the Trump admin. Make no mistake - this is the spending package Trump wants.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to erroneously cast blame at "establishment" Republicans, but that's just not an accurate statement.

The strawman was maintaining I advocate higher taxes because I pointed out your hypocrisy.

---

What is your alternative?

---

A bill that doesn't include massive spending increases proposed by Trumpists. Thought that was a pretty obvious.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

I'm not sure you "produce" a whole lot, nor pay any significant taxes. Tax cuts in this bill are ridiculous without corresponding spending reductions. The R's have NO Balls to stand up to Fatman. I would forgo a tax cut to bring down the debt if everyone else did too. Trust me, I stand to do very well on these tax cuts, but I really don't need them. Everyone has to sacrifice.

---

It would have been nice if you Boomers had sacrificed in 2008 and lost half your savings instead of kicking the can down the road, ballooning our debt to unprecedented, historic proportions, and making the next generation pay for your mistakes.

I'm in my peak earning years so every dollar you *******s steal from me is one less dollar I can invest and put towards retirement.

---

Great perspective from a guy educated at the schools we funded, driving the roads we built and using the airports we maintained.

Hate to say it, we all benefit from what others did for us.

---

So boomers should be celebrated for doing the absolute bare minimum?

The GG left boomers with all that without the historic national debt and inflation or the condescending attitude towards millenials or Gen Z who are doing their best despite not having the abundance of opportunity Boomers had.

---

Celebrated? No. Nor should they be cast aside for doing their part for the promise of SS in their later years.

What I hate that you're doing is the idea that America started the day you were born and all you are responsible for is yourself.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

---

It's not corrupt establishment Republicans who authored this bill. It was the Trump supporters in the House with substantial assistance from the Trump admin. Make no mistake - this is the spending package Trump wants.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to erroneously cast blame at "establishment" Republicans, but that's just not an accurate statement.

The strawman was maintaining I advocate higher taxes because I pointed out your hypocrisy.

---

What is your alternative?

---

A bill that doesn't include massive spending increases proposed by Trumpists. Thought that was a pretty obvious.

---

How does that happen before the tax cuts expire?

One area where I agree with you is I would like to see government spending return to pre-COVID levels immediately with more spending cuts in the future and I hope we can agree there should be a constitutional amendment requiring congress to pass a balanced budget.

"WW3 is the only way to prevent WW3"

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

---

It's not corrupt establishment Republicans who authored this bill. It was the Trump supporters in the House with substantial assistance from the Trump admin. Make no mistake - this is the spending package Trump wants.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to erroneously cast blame at "establishment" Republicans, but that's just not an accurate statement.

The strawman was maintaining I advocate higher taxes because I pointed out your hypocrisy.

---

What is your alternative?

---

A bill that doesn't include massive spending increases proposed by Trumpists. Thought that was a pretty obvious.

---

How does that happen before the tax cuts expire?

One area where I agree with you is I would like to see government spending return to pre-COVID levels immediately with more spending cuts in the future and I hope we can agree there should be a constitutional amendment requiring congress to pass a balanced budget.

---

It will not, since Trump doesn't wish to lower spending. He never has. He's always had a Democrat-mentality on spending.

That's my point - you're blaming the wrong people.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

---

It's not corrupt establishment Republicans who authored this bill. It was the Trump supporters in the House with substantial assistance from the Trump admin. Make no mistake - this is the spending package Trump wants.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to erroneously cast blame at "establishment" Republicans, but that's just not an accurate statement.

The strawman was maintaining I advocate higher taxes because I pointed out your hypocrisy.

---

What is your alternative?

---

A bill that doesn't include massive spending increases proposed by Trumpists. Thought that was a pretty obvious.

---

How does that happen before the tax cuts expire?

One area where I agree with you is I would like to see government spending return to pre-COVID levels immediately with more spending cuts in the future and I hope we can agree there should be a constitutional amendment requiring congress to pass a balanced budget.

---

It will not, since Trump doesn't wish to lower spending. He never has. He's always had a Democrat-mentality on spending.

That's my point - you're blaming the wrong people.

---

Perhaps... but conversely you arent blaming establishment Republicans enough.

There are only a handful of truly principled fiscal conservatives in Congress and among them are people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie who are going to be targeted and replaced by AIPAC and Israel lobby for not voting for wasteful spending for Israel.

The only time this government worked together to pass anything over the last several years has been to give hundreds of billions of dollars away to foreigners in Israel and Ukraine while American tax payers are rewarded with higher taxes....

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

---

It's not corrupt establishment Republicans who authored this bill. It was the Trump supporters in the House with substantial assistance from the Trump admin. Make no mistake - this is the spending package Trump wants.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to erroneously cast blame at "establishment" Republicans, but that's just not an accurate statement.

The strawman was maintaining I advocate higher taxes because I pointed out your hypocrisy.

---

What is your alternative?

---

A bill that doesn't include massive spending increases proposed by Trumpists. Thought that was a pretty obvious.

---

How does that happen before the tax cuts expire?

One area where I agree with you is I would like to see government spending return to pre-COVID levels immediately with more spending cuts in the future and I hope we can agree there should be a constitutional amendment requiring congress to pass a balanced budget.

---

It will not, since Trump doesn't wish to lower spending. He never has. He's always had a Democrat-mentality on spending.

That's my point - you're blaming the wrong people.

---

Perhaps... but conversely you arent blaming establishment Republicans enough.

There are only a handful of truly principled fiscal conservatives in Congress and among them are people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie who are going to be targeted and replaced by AIPAC and Israel lobby for not voting for wasteful spending for Israel.

The only time this government worked together to pass anything over the last several years has been to give hundreds of billions of dollars away to foreigners in Israel and Ukraine while American tax payers are rewarded with higher taxes....

---

If establishment Republicans were to blame for this bill, I would blame them. But this one is on Trump.

BTW, agreed on Massie, but MTG has voted for every Republican spending package since she's been in Congress. She is no fiscal conservative.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.

The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.

If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.

---

I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?

---

I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.

My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.

On the democrat side:

Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.

There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.

There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.

On the rhino/neo-con side:

Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!

CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.

Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.

I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.

---

So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???

---

I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!

The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.

I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.

---

So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?

---

Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.

---

Gotcha. It's interesting how willing some are to abandon their purported deeply held beliefs for selfish reasons.

---

Yep. I am "selfish" for wanting to keep my own property. Spoken like a true leftist.

---

I appreciate a good strawman every now and then, but this one is pretty flimsy.

---

1) It wasn't a strawman. The dollars you are taxed is extortion in exchange for your property not being confiscated by the state.

2) What do you propose since you seem to take issue with Trump's budget bill? A government shut-down? The Democrats and corrupt establishment Republicans wont cut government spending.

---

It's not corrupt establishment Republicans who authored this bill. It was the Trump supporters in the House with substantial assistance from the Trump admin. Make no mistake - this is the spending package Trump wants.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to erroneously cast blame at "establishment" Republicans, but that's just not an accurate statement.

The strawman was maintaining I advocate higher taxes because I pointed out your hypocrisy.

---

What is your alternative?

---

A bill that doesn't include massive spending increases proposed by Trumpists. Thought that was a pretty obvious.

---

How does that happen before the tax cuts expire?

One area where I agree with you is I would like to see government spending return to pre-COVID levels immediately with more spending cuts in the future and I hope we can agree there should be a constitutional amendment requiring congress to pass a balanced budget.

---

It will not, since Trump doesn't wish to lower spending. He never has. He's always had a Democrat-mentality on spending.

That's my point - you're blaming the wrong people.

---

Perhaps... but conversely you arent blaming establishment Republicans enough.

There are only a handful of truly principled fiscal conservatives in Congress and among them are people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie who are going to be targeted and replaced by AIPAC and Israel lobby for not voting for wasteful spending for Israel.

The only time this government worked together to pass anything over the last several years has been to give hundreds of billions of dollars away to foreigners in Israel and Ukraine while American tax payers are rewarded with higher taxes....

---

If establishment Republicans were to blame for this bill, I would blame them. But this one is on Trump.

BTW, agreed on Massie, but MTG has voted for every Republican spending package since she's been in Congress. She is no fiscal conservative.

---

Mags Green is a lunatic , plain and simple

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kyiv. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

LMAO. Oh brother.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

Russia did demand regime change initially and is doing so now. Again, its latest proposal has been made public.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

Russia did demand regime change initially and is doing so now. Again, its latest proposal has been made public.

---

Initially they did not. I wouldn't be surprised if they are now.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

Russia did demand regime change initially and is doing so now. Again, its latest proposal has been made public.

---

Initially they did not. I wouldn't be surprised if they are now.

---

I think Russia prefers having a crackhead, kleptocratic, clown as the leader of Ukraine... why risk Ukraine replacing him with someone inspiring and charismatic ?

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

Well, let's use your logic for a moment. You allege that Ukraine is calling for regime change because it wants Putin to be prosecuted. We know that since the beginning of this war, Russia has attempted to assassinate Zelensky literally dozens of times. Does that not qualify as a demand for regime change, using the logic you've employed regarding war crimes prosecution?

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

Well, let's use your logic for a moment. You allege that Ukraine is calling for regime change because it wants Putin to be prosecuted. We know that since the beginning of this war, Russia has attempted to assassinate Zelensky literally dozens of times. Does that not qualify as a demand for regime change, using the logic you've employed regarding war crimes prosecution?

---

The Russians could take out Zelensky any time they wanted.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

Well, let's use your logic for a moment. You allege that Ukraine is calling for regime change because it wants Putin to be prosecuted. We know that since the beginning of this war, Russia has attempted to assassinate Zelensky literally dozens of times. Does that not qualify as a demand for regime change, using the logic you've employed regarding war crimes prosecution?

---

The Russians could take out Zelensky any time they wanted.

---

lmao, no

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

Well, let's use your logic for a moment. You allege that Ukraine is calling for regime change because it wants Putin to be prosecuted. We know that since the beginning of this war, Russia has attempted to assassinate Zelensky literally dozens of times. Does that not qualify as a demand for regime change, using the logic you've employed regarding war crimes prosecution?

---

The Russians could take out Zelensky any time they wanted.

---

They've tried for over 3 years

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

---

Well, let's use your logic for a moment. You allege that Ukraine is calling for regime change because it wants Putin to be prosecuted. We know that since the beginning of this war, Russia has attempted to assassinate Zelensky literally dozens of times. Does that not qualify as a demand for regime change, using the logic you've employed regarding war crimes prosecution?

---

The Russians could take out Zelensky any time they wanted.

---

They've tried for over 3 years

---

Not really.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

---

Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

---

Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

---

Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

---

Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

---

Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

---

Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

---

So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

---

There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

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And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

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If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

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Well, let's use your logic for a moment. You allege that Ukraine is calling for regime change because it wants Putin to be prosecuted. We know that since the beginning of this war, Russia has attempted to assassinate Zelensky literally dozens of times. Does that not qualify as a demand for regime change, using the logic you've employed regarding war crimes prosecution?

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The Russians could take out Zelensky any time they wanted.

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They've tried for over 3 years

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Not really.

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There's some pretty well-documented failed assassination attempts. Are you arguing they were half-hearted?

Russia could win the war pretty quickly with the use of nukes as well. There's a reason they haven't used them.

But again, this doesn't change the point - Russia has tried for years to kill Zelensky.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.

Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B

— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025

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Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.

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Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.

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Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.

But I don't look at it that way.

Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.

To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:

- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.

This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.

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Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?

The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.

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Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.

I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.

I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.

There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .

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Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.

Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.

The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.

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So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?

Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.

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There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.

---

And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.

---

If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.

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Well, let's use your logic for a moment. You allege that Ukraine is calling for regime change because it wants Putin to be prosecuted. We know that since the beginning of this war, Russia has attempted to assassinate Zelensky literally dozens of times. Does that not qualify as a demand for regime change, using the logic you've employed regarding war crimes prosecution?

---

The Russians could take out Zelensky any time they wanted.

---

They've tried for over 3 years

---

Not really.

---

There's some pretty well-documented failed assassination attempts. Are you arguing they were half-hearted?

Russia could win the war pretty quickly with the use of nukes as well. There's a reason they haven't used them.

But again, this doesn't change the point - Russia has tried for years to kill Zelensky.

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They are actually rather poorly documented. A few attempts have been claimed, and one Ukrainian official said simply that he "believed" there had been a dozen or more. The best known attempt was carried out by Ukrainian military officers with alleged ties to Russia, but we only have Ukraine's word for that. An attempt by Ukraine's military makes plenty of sense given widespread discontent with Zelensky's leadership. Putin on the other hand has plenty for which to thank Zelensky. His unwavering stubbornness and tendency to reinforce failure have stymied negotiations, but they've also greatly helped Russia on the battlefield. Anyway, the bottom line is that Zelensky spends most of his time in a bunker in Kiev with little or no air defense at this point. If Putin really wanted him gone, he'd be buried alive tomorrow.