If I had to guess I'd say around 7.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
Why Are We in Ukraine?
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Last: 7 hrs ago by ron.reagan
ron.reagan said:If I had to guess I'd say around 7.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
Try guessing again when it's not one of your drinking nights.
So much for restocking the meat grinder with more able bodied Ukrainian men...
🇺🇦🇷🇴 Ukranian guys fled to Romania
— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) July 5, 2025
“We are fucking free”
Congrats boys! Welcome. pic.twitter.com/qA6ATQ6722
Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
No, that's a dodge to avoid reality on the demographic details.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
The answer to Ron's question is "a cohort somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 to 1.5 million." For perspective, that is roughly 1.5x the size of the current active duty Ukrainian military.
It is a cold hard fact that Ukraine is not going to run out of soldiers for many years. Given the circumstances of this conflict, they effectively have a bottomless well of bodies to send to the front. That will have profound impact on policy decisions, by everyone involved.
How long Ukraine lasts is a function of how long Nato sends enough money and ammo to keep the Ukrainian Army in the field. And in simple resource terms, Nato can easily outlast Russia. Russia knows that but believes Nato will throw in the towel. As you have.
that is Russia's game. Keep up the pressure, no matter how bad the losses get, in order to convince the West that Russian victory is inevitable (when such is not at all the case) thereby hoping to gain at the negotiating table what it cannot gain on the battlefield.
whiterock said:No, that's a dodge to avoid reality on the demographic details.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
The answer to Ron's question is "a cohort somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 to 1.5 million." For perspective, that is roughly 1.5x the size of the current active duty Ukrainian military.
It is a cold hard fact that Ukraine is not going to run out of soldiers for many years. Given the circumstances of this conflict, they effectively have a bottomless well of bodies to send to the front. That will have profound impact on policy decisions, by everyone involved.
How long Ukraine lasts is a function of how long Nato sends enough money and ammo to keep the Ukrainian Army in the field. And in simple resource terms, Nato can easily outlast Russia. Russia knows that but believes Nato will throw in the towel. As you have.
that is Russia's game. Keep up the pressure, no matter how bad the losses get, in order to convince the West that Russian victory is inevitable (when such is not at all the case) thereby hoping to gain at the negotiating table what it cannot gain on the battlefield.
Must have missed how Russia continues to occupy large swaths of Ukrainian territory.
Must be a fantasy that Russia is raining down drone attacks on Ukraine in unprecedented numbers.
Reportedly Russia is now massing over 120,000 troops for still another advance.
And money isn't going to stop them.
Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that. You really should heed the old adage.whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
Well, it is Worker's Paradise...Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
The mandatory military service is within Russia. There is some risk to those stationed near the Ukraine border, particularly as we saw in Kursk. There have also been reports of corrupt officers coercing conscripts to sign up for duty on the front lines. But by all accounts the vast majority of Russians in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
No Russia has forced hundreds of thousands to fight and also severely increased penalties for those who evade service after tens of thousands fled the country.Sam Lowry said:The mandatory military service is within Russia. There is some risk to those stationed near the Ukraine border, particularly as we saw in Kursk. There have also been reports of corrupt officers coercing conscripts to sign up for duty on the front lines. But by all accounts the vast majority of Russians in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
As for volunteers, Russia is paying "volunteers" 3 to 4 times their work salaries to fight, in addition to other promises.
Russia is doing the same with foreign fighters. In addition to all the North Koreans, Russia is paying men from all over African and Asia, promising $ and citizenship.
Those penalties are part of an effort to increase the overall size of the military. Conscripts are not fighting in any significant numbers, however. I don't know about three or four times their salary, but the volunteers are paid well. Obviously there are foreign mercenaries on both sides.sombear said:No Russia has forced hundreds of thousands to fight and also severely increased penalties for those who evade service after tens of thousands fled the country.Sam Lowry said:The mandatory military service is within Russia. There is some risk to those stationed near the Ukraine border, particularly as we saw in Kursk. There have also been reports of corrupt officers coercing conscripts to sign up for duty on the front lines. But by all accounts the vast majority of Russians in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
As for volunteers, Russia is paying "volunteers" 3 to 4 times their work salaries to fight, in addition to other promises.
Russia is doing the same with foreign fighters. In addition to all the North Koreans, Russia is paying men from all over African and Asia, promising $ and citizenship.
I have no problem with any country penalizing deserters. My point was that they increased those penalties for a reason: Conscripts were leaving. So of course they are using conscripts en masse.Sam Lowry said:Those penalties are part of an effort to increase the overall size of the military. Conscripts are not fighting in any significant numbers, however. I don't know about three or four times their salary, but the volunteers are paid well. Obviously there are foreign mercenaries on both sides.sombear said:No Russia has forced hundreds of thousands to fight and also severely increased penalties for those who evade service after tens of thousands fled the country.Sam Lowry said:The mandatory military service is within Russia. There is some risk to those stationed near the Ukraine border, particularly as we saw in Kursk. There have also been reports of corrupt officers coercing conscripts to sign up for duty on the front lines. But by all accounts the vast majority of Russians in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
As for volunteers, Russia is paying "volunteers" 3 to 4 times their work salaries to fight, in addition to other promises.
Russia is doing the same with foreign fighters. In addition to all the North Koreans, Russia is paying men from all over African and Asia, promising $ and citizenship.
Yes, both sides have mercs. One side happens to have about a 50 to 1 advantage in mercs.
You're probably referring to the troops who were mobilized in 2022. Those were reservists, not conscripts. People may be leaving because of the potential for a second mobilization, but so far there's been no need for one because they have so many volunteers.sombear said:I have no problem with any country penalizing deserters. My point was that they increased those penalties for a reason: Conscripts were leaving. So of course they are using conscripts en masse.Sam Lowry said:Those penalties are part of an effort to increase the overall size of the military. Conscripts are not fighting in any significant numbers, however. I don't know about three or four times their salary, but the volunteers are paid well. Obviously there are foreign mercenaries on both sides.sombear said:No Russia has forced hundreds of thousands to fight and also severely increased penalties for those who evade service after tens of thousands fled the country.Sam Lowry said:The mandatory military service is within Russia. There is some risk to those stationed near the Ukraine border, particularly as we saw in Kursk. There have also been reports of corrupt officers coercing conscripts to sign up for duty on the front lines. But by all accounts the vast majority of Russians in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
As for volunteers, Russia is paying "volunteers" 3 to 4 times their work salaries to fight, in addition to other promises.
Russia is doing the same with foreign fighters. In addition to all the North Koreans, Russia is paying men from all over African and Asia, promising $ and citizenship.
Yes, both sides have mercs. One side happens to have about a 50 to 1 advantage in mercs.
I'm not sure what the significance of the mercs is supposed to be. If you're implying that Russia is scraping the bottom of the barrel, I don't think that's the case. They've been using mercenaries for some of the most grueling battles (Bakhmut, for example) while building up their regular forces and saving them for the big push currently underway.
Russia admitted as far back as 2022 that conscripts were fighting. It had to admit it because many were captured as POWs.Sam Lowry said:You're probably referring to the troops who were mobilized in 2022. Those were reservists, not conscripts. People may be leaving because of the potential for a second mobilization, but so far there's been no need for one because they have so many volunteers.sombear said:I have no problem with any country penalizing deserters. My point was that they increased those penalties for a reason: Conscripts were leaving. So of course they are using conscripts en masse.Sam Lowry said:Those penalties are part of an effort to increase the overall size of the military. Conscripts are not fighting in any significant numbers, however. I don't know about three or four times their salary, but the volunteers are paid well. Obviously there are foreign mercenaries on both sides.sombear said:No Russia has forced hundreds of thousands to fight and also severely increased penalties for those who evade service after tens of thousands fled the country.Sam Lowry said:The mandatory military service is within Russia. There is some risk to those stationed near the Ukraine border, particularly as we saw in Kursk. There have also been reports of corrupt officers coercing conscripts to sign up for duty on the front lines. But by all accounts the vast majority of Russians in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
As for volunteers, Russia is paying "volunteers" 3 to 4 times their work salaries to fight, in addition to other promises.
Russia is doing the same with foreign fighters. In addition to all the North Koreans, Russia is paying men from all over African and Asia, promising $ and citizenship.
Yes, both sides have mercs. One side happens to have about a 50 to 1 advantage in mercs.
I'm not sure what the significance of the mercs is supposed to be. If you're implying that Russia is scraping the bottom of the barrel, I don't think that's the case. They've been using mercenaries for some of the most grueling battles (Bakhmut, for example) while building up their regular forces and saving them for the big push currently underway.
Again, no broader point on the mercs. Just saying it's a massive number. Russia's total fighting force has a significant % of foreigners and conscripts.
"As far back as 2022" is an artful way of putting it. Another way would be, "Once back in 2022 and not since." No doubt conscripts have been coerced or tricked into volunteering (and have still been referred to as conscripts by Western media when discovered). Some may even have been deployed without that technicality, especially early on. Some have been deployed in what are arguably combat zones along the border. But there is zero evidence of widespread use of conscripts in Ukraine itself. It would be a gross violation of Russian law and a source of real anger among the populace, which Putin has every reason to avoid.sombear said:Russia admitted as far back as 2022 that conscripts were fighting. It had to admit it because many were captured as POWs.Sam Lowry said:You're probably referring to the troops who were mobilized in 2022. Those were reservists, not conscripts. People may be leaving because of the potential for a second mobilization, but so far there's been no need for one because they have so many volunteers.sombear said:I have no problem with any country penalizing deserters. My point was that they increased those penalties for a reason: Conscripts were leaving. So of course they are using conscripts en masse.Sam Lowry said:Those penalties are part of an effort to increase the overall size of the military. Conscripts are not fighting in any significant numbers, however. I don't know about three or four times their salary, but the volunteers are paid well. Obviously there are foreign mercenaries on both sides.sombear said:No Russia has forced hundreds of thousands to fight and also severely increased penalties for those who evade service after tens of thousands fled the country.Sam Lowry said:The mandatory military service is within Russia. There is some risk to those stationed near the Ukraine border, particularly as we saw in Kursk. There have also been reports of corrupt officers coercing conscripts to sign up for duty on the front lines. But by all accounts the vast majority of Russians in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
As for volunteers, Russia is paying "volunteers" 3 to 4 times their work salaries to fight, in addition to other promises.
Russia is doing the same with foreign fighters. In addition to all the North Koreans, Russia is paying men from all over African and Asia, promising $ and citizenship.
Yes, both sides have mercs. One side happens to have about a 50 to 1 advantage in mercs.
I'm not sure what the significance of the mercs is supposed to be. If you're implying that Russia is scraping the bottom of the barrel, I don't think that's the case. They've been using mercenaries for some of the most grueling battles (Bakhmut, for example) while building up their regular forces and saving them for the big push currently underway.
Again, no broader point on the mercs. Just saying it's a massive number. Russia's total fighting force has a significant % of foreigners and conscripts.
Bottom line is that if we use the same yardstick, we get very different results. Russia is training a growing volunteer army. Ukraine is increasingly throwing untrained conscripts into the meat grinder. No surprises there. "To the last Ukrainian" is what we've always said. Except maybe when Whiterock said "Russia MUST lose," but I doubt even he believed that.
I agree with your wife that you aren't smartKaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If I had to guess I'd say around 7.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
Try guessing again when it's not one of your drinking nights.
Sam Lowry said:"As far back as 2022" is an artful way of putting it. Another way would be, "Once back in 2022 and not since." No doubt conscripts have been coerced or tricked into volunteering (and have still been referred to as conscripts by Western media when discovered). Some may even have been deployed without that technicality, especially early on. Some have been deployed in what are arguably combat zones along the border. But there is zero evidence of widespread use of conscripts in Ukraine itself. It would be a gross violation of Russian law and a source of real anger among the populace, which Putin has every reason to avoid.sombear said:Russia admitted as far back as 2022 that conscripts were fighting. It had to admit it because many were captured as POWs.Sam Lowry said:You're probably referring to the troops who were mobilized in 2022. Those were reservists, not conscripts. People may be leaving because of the potential for a second mobilization, but so far there's been no need for one because they have so many volunteers.sombear said:I have no problem with any country penalizing deserters. My point was that they increased those penalties for a reason: Conscripts were leaving. So of course they are using conscripts en masse.Sam Lowry said:Those penalties are part of an effort to increase the overall size of the military. Conscripts are not fighting in any significant numbers, however. I don't know about three or four times their salary, but the volunteers are paid well. Obviously there are foreign mercenaries on both sides.sombear said:No Russia has forced hundreds of thousands to fight and also severely increased penalties for those who evade service after tens of thousands fled the country.Sam Lowry said:The mandatory military service is within Russia. There is some risk to those stationed near the Ukraine border, particularly as we saw in Kursk. There have also been reports of corrupt officers coercing conscripts to sign up for duty on the front lines. But by all accounts the vast majority of Russians in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:They've always conscripted Russian youth for a one-year term of service, if I recall correctly, but not on the front lines. Those fighting in Ukraine are volunteers.Redbrickbear said:Sam Lowry said:Russia doesn't have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine, so there is that..whiterock said:Do you really think every person in a Ukrainian uniform was conscripted that way? A handful of videos of Ukrainian police rounding up draft doggers is the sum total of the Ukrainian recruitment effort? Geez, dude.....heed the old adage we used to joke about at Langley - "never listen to your own propaganda.....you might start to believe it."The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:they have nearly a half-million men reaching military age each year.......KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
They are choosing to fight with older demographic cohorts, but have over the course of the war starting moving the age of conscription downward. (out of necessity)
Much can be said about the limitations Ukraine faces in continuing the war. Manpower is, literally, the least of their concerns.
You mean those fighting age men that are being dragged kicking and screaming as they are pulled into unmarked vans with tinted windows in every major town square?
Yeah I'm sure they are going to fight real hard for a country that abducted them and essentially imposed a death sentence on them by shipping them into a war zone to fight for the losing side.
If I was one of those men who were kidnapped and forced into a fight I wanted no part in, I would execute my commissar at the first opportunity and surrender to the other side.
Forced conscription is an act of desperation, not strength.
Have you applied the same yardstick to Russia?
I think it's been proven that they in fact do have to conscript soldiers to fight in Ukraine.
They even have to hire N. Korea troops to guard their supply depots in Russia.
And even possibly fight on the front lines
[In Russia, male citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 are required to serve one year of mandatory military service. This conscription is typically carried out twice a year, with the spring draft from April 1 to July 15 and the fall draft from October 1 to December 31. ]
It's a hard sell to say that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine are there as volunteers or by choice as supporters of the war
As for volunteers, Russia is paying "volunteers" 3 to 4 times their work salaries to fight, in addition to other promises.
Russia is doing the same with foreign fighters. In addition to all the North Koreans, Russia is paying men from all over African and Asia, promising $ and citizenship.
Yes, both sides have mercs. One side happens to have about a 50 to 1 advantage in mercs.
I'm not sure what the significance of the mercs is supposed to be. If you're implying that Russia is scraping the bottom of the barrel, I don't think that's the case. They've been using mercenaries for some of the most grueling battles (Bakhmut, for example) while building up their regular forces and saving them for the big push currently underway.
Again, no broader point on the mercs. Just saying it's a massive number. Russia's total fighting force has a significant % of foreigners and conscripts.
Bottom line is that if we use the same yardstick, we get very different results. Russia is training a growing volunteer army. Ukraine is increasingly throwing untrained conscripts into the meat grinder. No surprises there. "To the last Ukrainian" is what we've always said. Except maybe when Whiterock said "Russia MUST lose," but I doubt even he believed that.
No, there have been numerous reports on conscripted fighters and captives for years.
You're really horrible at tit for tat Ron...ron.reagan said:I agree with your wife that you aren't smartKaiBear said:Try guessing again when it's not one of your drinking nights.ron.reagan said:If I had to guess I'd say around 7.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
Facebook Groups at; Memories of Dallas, Mem of Texas, Mem of Football in Texas, Mem Texas Music and Through a Texas Lens. Come visit! Over 100,000 members and 100,000 regular visitors
Sure, if you're talking about people in places like Kursk, or who volunteered after being trained as conscripts. But the claim that there are hundreds of thousands of conscripts on the front line is fantastical.
Like I said. There are reasons why Ukraine cannot win. Available manpower to put in the field is not one of them. Same can be said about Russia. Available manpower is not a problem for them, either. The limits both of them face is marshaling the resources to EQUIP the soldiers they suit up. Money, Uniforms. Boots. Helmets. Rifles. Ammunition. Food. Water. Artillery Tubes. Artillery Rounds. Tanks. Tank ammunition. Gasoline. Jets. Jet fuel. missiles. And on and on and on. Transporting all that to the front. Etc... Armies rarely collapse because they run out of men. Invariably, they run out of all the stuff it takes to get & keep their men in battle. When that happens, the soldiers self-demobilize and start walking home. That is what a war of attrition is designed to cause - extreme stress on the war effort, causing enough logistical shortfalls in enough places that the system grinds down to a halt, and collapses to a point where it can neither attack nor defend itself, and then the whole organization just atomizes away.KaiBear said:whiterock said:No, that's a dodge to avoid reality on the demographic details.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
The answer to Ron's question is "a cohort somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 to 1.5 million." For perspective, that is roughly 1.5x the size of the current active duty Ukrainian military.
It is a cold hard fact that Ukraine is not going to run out of soldiers for many years. Given the circumstances of this conflict, they effectively have a bottomless well of bodies to send to the front. That will have profound impact on policy decisions, by everyone involved.
How long Ukraine lasts is a function of how long Nato sends enough money and ammo to keep the Ukrainian Army in the field. And in simple resource terms, Nato can easily outlast Russia. Russia knows that but believes Nato will throw in the towel. As you have.
that is Russia's game. Keep up the pressure, no matter how bad the losses get, in order to convince the West that Russian victory is inevitable (when such is not at all the case) thereby hoping to gain at the negotiating table what it cannot gain on the battlefield.
Must have missed how Russia continues to occupy large swaths of Ukrainian territory.
Must be a fantasy that Russia is raining down drone attacks on Ukraine in unprecedented numbers.
Reportedly Russia is now massing over 120,000 troops for still another advance.
And money isn't going to stop them.
BOTH sides are showing extreme stress. For sure, this war would have been over long ago had Nato not stepped up to support Ukraine with money and munitions. And as long as Nato continues to support Ukraine, odds are that Ukraine can last longer than Russia, because Nato has more money than Russia to continue the war. We drop the hammer of Russia with sanctions, load up Ukraine with weapons we allow them to use without restrictions, and start to mobilize war production industry......Russia can't last much more than a year. They're already at +20% interest rates. Insane recruitment bonuses are starting to lose effectiveness. They're bringing in foreign mercs by the 10's of thousands. Interest rates are going to choke off the private sector, including war production industries.
Is that worth the nickel it'd take to do it? That is a debatable policy question. Trump just wants the war to stop. Not because of the geostrategics of the war itself, but because he sees it as a distraction from the larger problem of dealing with China. He's not wrong on that. Where I disagree with him is on how to get there. The strategy of trying to grind down both sides to force them to the table won't work. Trump has tried it. Not working. I think he's realizing what many of us have said all along - Russia will not stop until they face collapse (or get what they demand).
Time to drop sanctions on Russia. Hard.
War production and related industries are exempt from the key interest rate. That's why it has to be so high in order to achieve the desired deflationary effect. 20% is high even for Russia, but it's happened before. Last month's rate cut, the first since 2022, is a sign that it's working. Another cut is expected this month.
ron.reagan said:I agree with your wife that you aren't smartKaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If I had to guess I'd say around 7.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
Try guessing again when it's not one of your drinking nights.
Indeed I am fortunate to be married to an intelligent and extremely attractive woman.
Does your wife appreciate your 3 nights a week drinking sessions ?
Lil Petey steps in it yet again. As I said from the get go, he is not remotely qualified for his job. First, Signal gate (what happened to that investigation?). Now, lil Petey halted the arms sales/delivery to Ukraine without getting any approval or letting Trump know. He should be fired today. Need to fire the pole dancer Bondi too.
No, Bondi is too valuable as a scapegoat on Epstein. She will be there until the end, it will all be hung on her.J.R. said:
Lil Petey steps in it yet again. As I said from the get go, he is not remotely qualified for his job. First, Signal gate (what happened to that investigation?). Now, lil Petey halted the arms sales/delivery to Ukraine without getting any approval or letting Trump know. He should be fired today. Need to fire the pole dancer Bondi too.
J.R. said:
Lil Petey steps in it yet again. As I said from the get go, he is not remotely qualified for his job. First, Signal gate (what happened to that investigation?). Now, lil Petey halted the arms sales/delivery to Ukraine without getting any approval or letting Trump know. He should be fired today. Need to fire the pole dancer Bondi too.
Expect Bondi to resign within the next 12 months.
Since we don't share an interest in jewelry like you I think she does appreciate discussing the wine collectionKaiBear said:ron.reagan said:I agree with your wife that you aren't smartKaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If I had to guess I'd say around 7.KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:How many 15,16,17 year olds are now 18+ since the war started, Pythagoras?KaiBear said:I believe Ukraine has over 300.000 of its combat aged men either killed or wounded.ron.reagan said:Exactly how many casualties do you think Ukraine has taken? What is their population? How bad are you at math?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:He's no where near out. He has more potential soldier than any country in Europe right now...KaiBear said:Putin has read the battlefield.....Zelensky has rin out of soldiers.Assassin said:He's read the room. No help to ZelenskyKaiBear said:
Putin massing over 120,000 troops for the final push; as Ukraine is ready to collapse.
As money simply cannot replace lost blood, bone and brain matter.
Hate to see Putin win this; but Biden - Harris totally mishandled the entire situation.
Now unless Trump commits US troops, naval units and a no fly zone..............
Ukranine is finished.
What is the source of these potential soldiers ?
Am actually pretty good at math.
Do you really think Ukraine is going to win this war ?
The better question is how many 15,16,and 17 year olds have already been killed or crippled for life.
Try guessing again when it's not one of your drinking nights.
Indeed I am fortunate to be married to an intelligent and extremely attractive woman.
Does your wife appreciate your 3 nights a week drinking sessions ?