ATL Bear said:
An almost impossible war to execute, at least under today's septic standards.
Hamas won't surrender and hides among the people.
Israel won't/can't risk soldiers going into extremely hostile areas to be more strategic/limited in their kills/targets.
Palestinian non combatants are stuck with nowhere to go as refugees.
Just a horrible situation.
Aliceinbubbleland said:
I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.
There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.
And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.
It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.
Exactly. been that way for decades.historian said:Aliceinbubbleland said:
I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.
There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.
And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.
It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.
That already described the Palestinian civilians. Nothing Israel does or died by do will change that. Palestinian civilians helped Hamas in the October 7 attacks and when the IDF madd the unprecedented step of calling Palestinian civilians before an attack do they could escape, the response was rudeness & insults. They preferred their children dead than surviving because Israel cared more for them than their leaders.
Aliceinbubbleland said:
I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.
There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.
And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.
It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.
cms186 said:a "mistake" no doubt ordered and planned for days, i don't know how many more "mistakes" this guy will get away with, the amount that has happened in this latest war is hilarious from a 1st world military force, until you realise that these aren't "mistakes" or "accidents"boognish_bear said:Netanyahu acknowledges 'tragic mistake' after Rafah strike kills dozens of Palestinians https://t.co/sxLOxR5on5
— The Associated Press (@AP) May 27, 2024
Hamas is a disgusting terrorist group and their use of tactics such as human shields is deplorable, but you have to question their usage when you know the Israelis couldn't give a **** if they "accidentally" kill some innocent civilians, whether it kills some Hamas members as well or not, Israel has repeatedly shown they don't care about non-Jews
so predictable. the greater the initial outrage, the more sure one can be it is partly or wholly a hoax.sombear said:cms186 said:a "mistake" no doubt ordered and planned for days, i don't know how many more "mistakes" this guy will get away with, the amount that has happened in this latest war is hilarious from a 1st world military force, until you realise that these aren't "mistakes" or "accidents"boognish_bear said:Netanyahu acknowledges 'tragic mistake' after Rafah strike kills dozens of Palestinians https://t.co/sxLOxR5on5
— The Associated Press (@AP) May 27, 2024
Hamas is a disgusting terrorist group and their use of tactics such as human shields is deplorable, but you have to question their usage when you know the Israelis couldn't give a **** if they "accidentally" kill some innocent civilians, whether it kills some Hamas members as well or not, Israel has repeatedly shown they don't care about non-Jews
While it doesn't make the deaths any less tragic, it appears y'all have been duped again by Hamas, and it was not Israel's fault. Rather, the idiot Hamas leaders that were killed had a nearby weapons depot (in a residence of course) that exploded.
sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
duped by that notorious Hamas agent, the ultra Right Wing Israeli President Benjamin Netanyau admitting to it?sombear said:cms186 said:a "mistake" no doubt ordered and planned for days, i don't know how many more "mistakes" this guy will get away with, the amount that has happened in this latest war is hilarious from a 1st world military force, until you realise that these aren't "mistakes" or "accidents"boognish_bear said:Netanyahu acknowledges 'tragic mistake' after Rafah strike kills dozens of Palestinians https://t.co/sxLOxR5on5
— The Associated Press (@AP) May 27, 2024
Hamas is a disgusting terrorist group and their use of tactics such as human shields is deplorable, but you have to question their usage when you know the Israelis couldn't give a **** if they "accidentally" kill some innocent civilians, whether it kills some Hamas members as well or not, Israel has repeatedly shown they don't care about non-Jews
While it doesn't make the deaths any less tragic, it appears y'all have been duped again by Hamas, and it was not Israel's fault. Rather, the idiot Hamas leaders that were killed had a nearby weapons depot (in a residence of course) that exploded.
I believe he acted too quickly, admitting generally a mistake after the world rendered judgment within 24 hours based on Hamas' spin. Whatever one thinks of 'ol Ben, not even he could have believed Hamas would have stored an unprotected weapons/bomb depot in the most dangerous possible place for innocents.cms186 said:duped by that notorious Hamas agent, the ultra Right Wing Israeli President Benjamin Netanyau admitting to it?sombear said:cms186 said:a "mistake" no doubt ordered and planned for days, i don't know how many more "mistakes" this guy will get away with, the amount that has happened in this latest war is hilarious from a 1st world military force, until you realise that these aren't "mistakes" or "accidents"boognish_bear said:Netanyahu acknowledges 'tragic mistake' after Rafah strike kills dozens of Palestinians https://t.co/sxLOxR5on5
— The Associated Press (@AP) May 27, 2024
Hamas is a disgusting terrorist group and their use of tactics such as human shields is deplorable, but you have to question their usage when you know the Israelis couldn't give a **** if they "accidentally" kill some innocent civilians, whether it kills some Hamas members as well or not, Israel has repeatedly shown they don't care about non-Jews
While it doesn't make the deaths any less tragic, it appears y'all have been duped again by Hamas, and it was not Israel's fault. Rather, the idiot Hamas leaders that were killed had a nearby weapons depot (in a residence of course) that exploded.
Did you read it? The point is about what would become Tel Aviv in the early 1900s. It was a sand dune. It is true that nobody cared about the British Mandate until the Jews.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
Before the Jews started moving into the land in large numbers, Jerusalem was an religious tourist town with a very tiny population.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
ShooterTX said:Before the Jews started moving into the land in large numbers, Jerusalem was an religious tourist town with a very tiny population.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
It wasn't until after the Jews starting moving there, that people suddenly cared about Jerusalem in a major way.
Numbers and estimates vary, but most sources agree that the Jews were the majority of the population in Jerusalem by at least 1885. Even then, the population was tiny. It was estimated to be about 32,000 people.
For perspective, that's about the same size as San Antonio or Dallas in that same era. This was before both of those cities saw their massive population spikes.
Chicago in 1885 was well over 500,000, New York was over 1,200,000, Boston was over 400,000, and Philadelphia was just under 1,000,000.
So yeah.... no one really cared that much about a tiny town in the middle of the desert... until the Jews showed up
sombear said:Did you read it? The point is about what would become Tel Aviv in the early 1900s. It was a sand dune. It is true that nobody cared about the British Mandate until the Jews.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
I don't think anyone has said that the area of Palestine was completely devoid of people... but Tel Aviv was created out of nothing. There literally was no one there.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Did you read it? The point is about what would become Tel Aviv in the early 1900s. It was a sand dune. It is true that nobody cared about the British Mandate until the Jews.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
Is not the whole point that they founded Tel Aviv because other cities and towns in the region already had existing populations?
530.000 people living in Israel-Palestine at the time.
432K of Arab Muslims, 57k of Arab Christians, and then in 3rd around 43k of Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
While mostly filled with small towns and small cities it was not uninhabited.
[According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#cite_note-89][88][/url]
ShooterTX said:I don't think anyone has said that the area of Palestine was completely devoid of people... but Tel Aviv was created out of nothing. There literally was no one there.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Did you read it? The point is about what would become Tel Aviv in the early 1900s. It was a sand dune. It is true that nobody cared about the British Mandate until the Jews.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
Is not the whole point that they founded Tel Aviv because other cities and towns in the region already had existing populations?
530.000 people living in Israel-Palestine at the time.
432K of Arab Muslims, 57k of Arab Christians, and then in 3rd around 43k of Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
While mostly filled with small towns and small cities it was not uninhabited.
[According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#cite_note-89][88][/url]
What you mean to say was "at the hands of Hamas' own bombs, rockets, and weapons, which should not have been anywhere near that area."J.R. said:
Turns out that the 45 who were killed and children burned to death was at the hand of our bombs. Time to cut those Mfer's off in ALL aid. They can fin for themselves as far as I'm concerned. We can reengage when they make serious changes including a brand new govt. Until then, no thanks.
No, the point was very simple. The area that became Tel Aviv was a sand dune that nobody cared about until the Jews moved there. This was never about land or even occupation. The land had changed hands numerous times, and Jordan itself (and others at various times) controlled the land and occupied Palestine. The issue was and is jews, period.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Did you read it? The point is about what would become Tel Aviv in the early 1900s. It was a sand dune. It is true that nobody cared about the British Mandate until the Jews.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
Is not the whole point that they founded Tel Aviv because other cities and towns in the region already had existing populations?
530.000 people living in Israel-Palestine at the time.
432K of Arab Muslims, 57k of Arab Christians, and then in 3rd around 43k of Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
While mostly filled with small towns and small cities it was not uninhabited.
[According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#cite_note-89][88][/url]
sombear said:No, the point was very simple. The area that became Tel Aviv was a sand dune that nobody cared about until the Jews moved there. This was never about land or even occupation. The land had changed hands numerous times, and Jordan itself (and others at various times) controlled the land and occupied Palestine. The issue was and is jews, period.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Did you read it? The point is about what would become Tel Aviv in the early 1900s. It was a sand dune. It is true that nobody cared about the British Mandate until the Jews.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
Is not the whole point that they founded Tel Aviv because other cities and towns in the region already had existing populations?
530.000 people living in Israel-Palestine at the time.
432K of Arab Muslims, 57k of Arab Christians, and then in 3rd around 43k of Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
While mostly filled with small towns and small cities it was not uninhabited.
[According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#cite_note-89][88][/url]
There is a lot more to this.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:No, the point was very simple. The area that became Tel Aviv was a sand dune that nobody cared about until the Jews moved there. This was never about land or even occupation. The land had changed hands numerous times, and Jordan itself (and others at various times) controlled the land and occupied Palestine. The issue was and is jews, period.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Did you read it? The point is about what would become Tel Aviv in the early 1900s. It was a sand dune. It is true that nobody cared about the British Mandate until the Jews.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
Is not the whole point that they founded Tel Aviv because other cities and towns in the region already had existing populations?
530.000 people living in Israel-Palestine at the time.
432K of Arab Muslims, 57k of Arab Christians, and then in 3rd around 43k of Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
While mostly filled with small towns and small cities it was not uninhabited.
[According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#cite_note-89][88][/url]
Probably more an issue that they established an ethnic particularist state on the land.
Then drove out about 500,000 to 700,000 Arabs and liquidated about 500+ Arab villages and towns (some Christian villages) to establish that state.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
More so than the fact they established a thriving economic city like Tel Aviv
sombear said:There is a lot more to this.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:No, the point was very simple. The area that became Tel Aviv was a sand dune that nobody cared about until the Jews moved there. This was never about land or even occupation. The land had changed hands numerous times, and Jordan itself (and others at various times) controlled the land and occupied Palestine. The issue was and is jews, period.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Did you read it? The point is about what would become Tel Aviv in the early 1900s. It was a sand dune. It is true that nobody cared about the British Mandate until the Jews.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:
A great point that most are unaware of:I love this photo of the founding of Tel Aviv.
— Max (@MaxNordau) May 24, 2024
It demonstrates perfectly why nobody really cared about the British Mandate prior to Jews living there: It was sparsely populated land with no natural resources.
It also demonstrates that terrorists are lying when they talk about… pic.twitter.com/10CajTi6T3
no one cared about Jerusalem?!? What?
Is not the whole point that they founded Tel Aviv because other cities and towns in the region already had existing populations?
530.000 people living in Israel-Palestine at the time.
432K of Arab Muslims, 57k of Arab Christians, and then in 3rd around 43k of Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
While mostly filled with small towns and small cities it was not uninhabited.
[According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#cite_note-89][88][/url]
Probably more an issue that they established an ethnic particularist state on the land.
Then drove out about 500,000 to 700,000 Arabs and liquidated about 500+ Arab villages and towns (some Christian villages) to establish that state.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
More so than the fact they established a thriving economic city like Tel Aviv
First of all, preceding 1948, there were atrocities committed by the extremists on both sides.
In 1948, Israel, unlike Palestine/Arabs accepted the partition, even with hundreds of thousands of Arabs living on land partitioned to Israel. If I recall correctly, it was close to 50-50 populations.
What are you are referencing, as you know, happened after they attacked Israel in 1948. It was war. I have no doubt there were atrocities committed. There also were atrocities against Jews - and, again, it wasn't the Jews who declared war/invaded.
As to the specifics of Nakba, they remain hotly debated to this day. Specifically, how many were forced out vs. left voluntarily.
sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
They had no issue with Jordan and really not even with Britain.
.
sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
And it was not their land and nobody recognized it as such. As has been discussed ad nauseum in this and other threads, it was a land whose people changed constantly from the beginning.
Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
And it was not their land and nobody recognized it as such. As has been discussed ad nauseum in this and other threads, it was a land whose people changed constantly from the beginning.
Well this must be awkward for you….
[Palestinians, among other Levantine groups, were found to derive 81-87% of their ancestry from Bronze age Levantines, relating to Canaanites as well as KuraAraxes culture impact from before 2400 BCE (4400 years before present); 8-12% from an East African source and 5-10% from Bronze age Europeans]
They are descendants of people who have been there since the Bronze Age
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10212583/
[A 2021 study by the New York Genome Center found that the predominant component of the DNA of modern Palestinians matches that of Bronze Age Palestinian Canaanites who lived around 2500-1700 BCE]
I've read plenty, for decades. Read more closely. They were very small groups of extremists. There was no overall outrage either internally or in other Arab nations. At least not until . . . Jews.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
They had no issue with Jordan and really not even with Britain.
.
You might want to read up on that
Jews and Arabs were both attacking British troops on a regular basis…they wanted the British to quit the county so they could get at each other
[Jewish militants attacked British government facilities in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and Jaffa on December 27, 1945, resulting in the deaths of ten British government personnel. Jewish militants killed seven British government soldiers near Tel Aviv on April 25, 1946.]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine
[The Arab Revolt of 1936-39 was the first sustained violent uprising of Palestinian Arabs in more than a century. Thousands of Arabs from all classes were mobilized, and nationalistic sentiment was fanned in the Arabic press, schools, and literary circles. The British, taken aback by the extent and intensity of the revolt, shipped more than 20,000 troops into Palestine]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
sombear said:I've read plenty, for decades. Read more closely. They were very small groups of extremists. There was no overall outrage either internally or in other Arab nations. At least not until . . . Jews.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
They had no issue with Jordan and really not even with Britain.
.
You might want to read up on that
Jews and Arabs were both attacking British troops on a regular basis…they wanted the British to quit the county so they could get at each other
[Jewish militants attacked British government facilities in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and Jaffa on December 27, 1945, resulting in the deaths of ten British government personnel. Jewish militants killed seven British government soldiers near Tel Aviv on April 25, 1946.]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine
[The Arab Revolt of 1936-39 was the first sustained violent uprising of Palestinian Arabs in more than a century. Thousands of Arabs from all classes were mobilized, and nationalistic sentiment was fanned in the Arabic press, schools, and literary circles. The British, taken aback by the extent and intensity of the revolt, shipped more than 20,000 troops into Palestine]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
Because there are whacko nut jobs on both sides. Still are.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:I've read plenty, for decades. Read more closely. They were very small groups of extremists. There was no overall outrage either internally or in other Arab nations. At least not until . . . Jews.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
They had no issue with Jordan and really not even with Britain.
.
You might want to read up on that
Jews and Arabs were both attacking British troops on a regular basis…they wanted the British to quit the county so they could get at each other
[Jewish militants attacked British government facilities in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and Jaffa on December 27, 1945, resulting in the deaths of ten British government personnel. Jewish militants killed seven British government soldiers near Tel Aviv on April 25, 1946.]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine
[The Arab Revolt of 1936-39 was the first sustained violent uprising of Palestinian Arabs in more than a century. Thousands of Arabs from all classes were mobilized, and nationalistic sentiment was fanned in the Arabic press, schools, and literary circles. The British, taken aback by the extent and intensity of the revolt, shipped more than 20,000 troops into Palestine]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
So there was no mass resistance to ottoman or British rule until a foreign people started to settle the land in mass…
That is not the winning argument you think it is
And you still have not explained why the Jews were attacking and killing innocent British soldiers and administrators
You are smart and well-read enough to know that who derived from and/or lived on the land historically is a hotly contested issue that requires analysis far beyond this forum. I've never even tried to make the pro-Israel argument on that other than to say it's debated, inhabitants have changed numerous times for centuries, both have histories there.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
And it was not their land and nobody recognized it as such. As has been discussed ad nauseum in this and other threads, it was a land whose people changed constantly from the beginning.
Well this must be awkward for you….
[Palestinians, among other Levantine groups, were found to derive 81-87% of their ancestry from Bronze age Levantines, relating to Canaanites as well as KuraAraxes culture impact from before 2400 BCE (4400 years before present); 8-12% from an East African source and 5-10% from Bronze age Europeans]
They are descendants of people who have been there since the Bronze Age
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10212583/
[A 2021 study by the New York Genome Center found that the predominant component of the DNA of modern Palestinians matches that of Bronze Age Palestinian Canaanites who lived around 2500-1700 BCE]
sombear said:You are smart and well-read enough to know that who derived from and/or lived on the land historically is a hotly contested issue that requires analysis far beyond this forum.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Never said it was the establishment of a single city. It was jews, period. Still is. It would not have mattered where or how much land in the Arab world.
I doubt they would have acted differently if was Christian Franks or Buddhist Han Chinese.
Why would they be ok with foreigners taking their land?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
And it was not their land and nobody recognized it as such. As has been discussed ad nauseum in this and other threads, it was a land whose people changed constantly from the beginning.
Well this must be awkward for you….
[Palestinians, among other Levantine groups, were found to derive 81-87% of their ancestry from Bronze age Levantines, relating to Canaanites as well as KuraAraxes culture impact from before 2400 BCE (4400 years before present); 8-12% from an East African source and 5-10% from Bronze age Europeans]
They are descendants of people who have been there since the Bronze Age
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10212583/
[A 2021 study by the New York Genome Center found that the predominant component of the DNA of modern Palestinians matches that of Bronze Age Palestinian Canaanites who lived around 2500-1700 BCE]
After 9/11, there was one group consistently and largely cheering ... the fhucktard Palestinians. They are so universally hated the other Arabs don't want the ghass holes.historian said:Aliceinbubbleland said:
I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.
There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.
And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.
It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.
That already describes the Palestinian civilians. Nothing Israel does or didn't do will change that. Palestinian civilians helped Hamas in the October 7 attacks and when the IDF madd the unprecedented step of calling Palestinian civilians before an attack do they could escape, the response was rudeness & insults. They preferred their children dead than surviving because Israel cared more for them than their leaders.
You're delusional.Aliceinbubbleland said:
Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.
The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.
The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.
I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
