ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

Not as dangerous if you are the lone hyper power military/economic giant on earth.

Goat herders vs U.S. marines will billions in tech was always going to be a one sided casualty event.

But to the thousands of dead Americans and their families it's still bad.

(And the 1 million dead Iraqis and millions displaced)

Not to mention in most cases the world policing has just not worked well.

The one world policing duty the USA can do well….that costs little on lives…and that is of great help to the world is keeping the ocean shipping lanes open.

That is world policing we do well and that benefits everyone

---

The objective is to become the hyper power..

---

Leaving aside I'm not sure how that fits into the Founders ideals of being a free Republic with limited government….

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -Madison

The big problem is not getting there…it's not blundering into crises that destroy it

---

Madison was speaking at a time where fighting for freedom was a nascent ideal. Most wars of the era were for Monarchical power.

---

They got rid of the Continental army after the war.

Bottom line they did not like or trust standing armies

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900..

---

I wonder what lessons we can learn from another global military super power that went bankrupt after getting involved in two horrifying world wars…leading to the collapse of its empire

---

I think the direct rule colonial empires deserve to be on the scrap heap of history. I know you guys like to beat up on globalism, but one of the outcomes of the collapse of colonialism is more sovereign participation in the world economy, and the intertwined self interests that help thwart mass conflict and encourage alignment. It's not perfect, but has merits.

---

Dodging the point

In 1900 there was a great military power on the planet.

Though foolish and costly wars it went bankrupt and lost its power

Today in 2024 there is a great military power on the planet….its also trillions in debt and with a ruling class that seems addicted to costly and foolish military conflicts

---

Ironically, one thing we actually do well is fight wars (whether you believe worthy or not).

---

Does D.C. do it well?

Leaving out the spending, the graft, the waste

Just on a military basis…is that true?

It's been decades since we fought a real peer competitor in a major war.

And we frequently lose insurgency wars against ramshackle guerrilla forces or at least fail to secure our goals of "nation building"

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900..

---

I wonder what lessons we can learn from another global military super power that went bankrupt after getting involved in two horrifying world wars…leading to the collapse of its empire

---

I think the direct rule colonial empires deserve to be on the scrap heap of history. I know you guys like to beat up on globalism, but one of the outcomes of the collapse of colonialism is more sovereign participation in the world economy, and the intertwined self interests that help thwart mass conflict and encourage alignment. It's not perfect, but has merits.

---

Dodging the point

In 1900 there was a great military power on the planet.

Though foolish and costly wars it went bankrupt and lost its power

Today in 2024 there is a great military power on the planet….its also trillions in debt and with a ruling class that seems addicted to costly and foolish military conflicts

---

Not dodging any point. You simply can't compare an apple and an orange.

Britain exhausted itself fighting back to back mass world wars. We're exhausting ourselves on entitlement spending and an apathetic work force..

---

So not so apple and orange after all

Both "empires"/hyper powers…both going broke via bad leadership and decisions

---

Not sure there has ever been an empire going all the way back to the Egyptians that hasn't fallen due to that very mix. The circumstances and choices are just what was different.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900..

---

I wonder what lessons we can learn from another global military super power that went bankrupt after getting involved in two horrifying world wars…leading to the collapse of its empire

---

I think the direct rule colonial empires deserve to be on the scrap heap of history. I know you guys like to beat up on globalism, but one of the outcomes of the collapse of colonialism is more sovereign participation in the world economy, and the intertwined self interests that help thwart mass conflict and encourage alignment. It's not perfect, but has merits.

---

Dodging the point

In 1900 there was a great military power on the planet.

Though foolish and costly wars it went bankrupt and lost its power

Today in 2024 there is a great military power on the planet….its also trillions in debt and with a ruling class that seems addicted to costly and foolish military conflicts

---

Ironically, one thing we actually do well is fight wars (whether you believe worthy or not).

---

Does D.C. do it well?

Leaving our the spending, the graft, the waste

Just on a military basis…is that true?

It's been decades since we fought a real peer competitor in a major war.

And we frequently lose insurgency wars against ramshackle guerrilla forces or at least fail to secure our goals of "nation building"

---

The fighting we actually do pretty well. We can't seem to learn the lesson of winning the peace under misguided Western guidelines.

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900. Literally a class of one. I'm not naive to the internal and existential threats we face today in order to maintain that, but with all due respect, we aren't here without our efforts to exert might across the globe.

---

Realize you are an experienced international traveler and successful businessman so I appreciate your perspective.

Possibly i have acquired a more cautious approach.

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900. Literally a class of one. I'm not naive to the internal and existential threats we face today in order to maintain that, but with all due respect, we aren't here without our efforts to exert might across the globe.

---

Possibly i have acquired a more cautious approach.

---

Not to mention peace and caution (aka stability) favors the current global order (led by the USA)

Wars of choice, adventurism, unsustainable spending are what threaten the USA's power.

China has gotten to sit back the past 20 years and love watching the circus fire the USA has put itself through

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

Not as dangerous if you are the lone hyper power military/economic giant on earth.

Goat herders vs U.S. marines will billions in tech was always going to be a one sided casualty event.

But to the thousands of dead Americans and their families it's still bad.

(And the 1 million dead Iraqis and millions displaced)

Not to mention in most cases the world policing has just not worked well.

The one world policing duty the USA can do well….that costs little on lives…and that is of great help to the world is keeping the ocean shipping lanes open.

That is world policing we do well and that benefits everyone

---

The objective is to become the hyper power..

---

Leaving aside I'm not sure how that fits into the Founders ideals of being a free Republic with limited government….

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -Madison

The big problem is not getting there…it's not blundering into crises that destroy it

---

Madison was speaking at a time where fighting for freedom was a nascent ideal. Most wars of the era were for Monarchical power.

---

They got rid of the Continental army after the war.

Bottom line they did not like or trust standing armies

---

The Newburgh conspiracy very nearly justified their concerns.

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation. That we can leave NATO if they don't pay, which I believe was a Trump success. We are involved and in many cases the only ones capable of making a difference. Shipping is one where we partner with the Brits carrying the load. I have no problem with US intervention, Desert Storm was a good example.

Where we do agree is the 20 year wars. We got out after Desert Storm set up no fly zones and went home. Same with Grenada and Panama. We did what we were supposed to do and left.

These 20 year Afghan and Iraq, I can't disagree.

It's in everyone's interest to keep shipping lanes open. The Somali pirates a few years ago proved that. Eventually, Barack Hussein Obama demonstrated leadership and dealt with that problem. It might be the only example of him doing something that actually benefitted America and the world. The Houthi's are a contemporary example. We have seen there what a lack of American leadership produces.

Today, there is no other nation that can do it. The only country with a navy remotely capable of policing the world's oceans is China and no sane person would argue that the world would benefit from them taking on that responsibility. They would use it primarily for their own advantage and everyone else would suffer.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

Quote:

---

The new United Nations did offer the Palestinians their own state, the first of several such offers, when they recognized the new state of Israel but the Palestinians rejected this because of their irrational & genocidal hatred of the Jews and unwillingness to coexist beside them.

---

Yes, they offered them a tiny quarter of what previously they occupied. At the time I'm not sure they held such hostility towards the Jews because they both occupied the land previously without major wars.

We don't need to go back centuries because those folks who were displaced had lived there for generations.

It's a difficult question because as ATL Bear said Islam is scourge. The flip side of that coin is were they always a scourge before being shut out of their land.

Actually the territory they were offered in 1948 was larger than Israel. It wasn't the size, it was their bigotry. They wanted 100% of something that they never had before and wanted to annihilate all Jews. Those are still their objectives and that is why their dreams must be destroyed. It is the only intelligent and civilized response to their demonic evil.

It's not their land. Never has been.

historian said:

---

Actually the territory they were offered in 1948 was larger than Israel. It wasn't the size, it was their bigotry. They wanted 100% of something that they never had before and wanted to annihilate all Jews. Those are still their objectives and that is why their dreams must be destroyed. It is the only intelligent and civilized response to their demonic evil.

It's not their land. Never has been.

---

I am not sure that is accurate....

[The Partition Plan, a four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate; the gradual withdrawal of British armed forces by no later than 1 August 1948; and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem at least two months after the withdrawal, but no later than 1 October 1948. The Arab state was to have a territory of 11,100 square kilometres, or 42 percent of the Mandate's territory, and the Jewish state a territory of 14,100 square kilometres, or 56 percent; the remaining 2 percent-comprising Jerusalem, Bethlehem and the adjoining area-would become an international zone.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine


Either way....it was the best deal the Palestinians were ever gonna get.

70 years of conflict and they are about to get reduced down to just Gaza.

As someone noted, they already had Jordan which is significantly larger than Israel. Jordan was a British mandate as well.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

ScottS said:

---

Go Israel!!!!! Kick terrorist ****.

---

This aint football

---

Correct. Its a war vs at least 2 terror organizations.

Guy Noir said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Netanyahu and his right wing are committing genocide and we are complicit

---

I have seen the signs calling Israel's defense initiative genocide, but those same protesters call for the elimination of Israel. The Palestinians are the ones calling for genocide. Not me

Choosing to attack Israel, and take hostages, and shooting rockets into Israel is the reason the IDF is attacking them. It is not a motive of genocide. Yet 40,000 deaths 10,000 children

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

You may not go that far, but there are definitely several that do on this Board.

It is sort of like Football Defense, everyone has a risk tolerance. Some can live with the high risk, man-on D and be fine with getting beat on big plays. Others, hate that and want zone where the other team has to put together a 15 play drive. Everyone is on the spectrum (among other spectrums on this Board, me included).

Some want no military, short of defending invasion.
Others want just the Navy patrolling shipping lanes.
Others want the US to be part of Coalitions
Others want Coalitions and have a presence, like Germany, Korea etc. (My choice)
Others want us to go to do everything but be paid

Depends on your tolerance.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

---

Classic geography issue

Switzerland is up in the alps and hard to conquer (who did it last with success....Napoleon?)

While Belgium is on the flat European plain and a corridor to move through if your France headed east or Germany headed West.

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

---

Classic geography issue

Switzerland is up in the alps and hard to conquer (who did it last with success....Napoleon?)

While Belgium is on the flat European plain and a corridor to move through if your France headed east or Germany headed West.

---

Exactly. There is no large country that is not regularly subject to attack because of geography and valuable resources.
A prosperous and resource rich country like the US cannot afford to spend effort to isolate itself. It can insulate, but isolation leads to becoming an easier target as the US will always be due to its wealth.

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

---

Classic geography issue

Switzerland is up in the alps and hard to conquer (who did it last with success....Napoleon?)

While Belgium is on the flat European plain and a corridor to move through if your France headed east or Germany headed West.

---

Exactly. There is no large country that is not regularly subject to attack because of geography and valuable resources.
A prosperous and resource rich country like the US cannot afford to spend effort to isolate itself. It can insulate, but isolation leads to becoming an easier target as the US will always be due to its wealth.

---

Unless you can pull Canada or Mexico out of the USA orbit and get them to let you station troops in country ....then America is basically impenetrable to attack or invasion.





Surrounded on 3 sides by large oceans (one the Arctic ocean is basically impassable for invasion fleets)

With outward facing defensive islands (Hawaii/Puerto Rico) to place U.S. naval forces

With a small sliver of land to defend in central American along the isthmus there

Fortress North America essentially

No other nation on earth is as defended from invasion as us other than Australia....and it does not have our resources, population, or defensible natural barriers.

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

---

Classic geography issue

Switzerland is up in the alps and hard to conquer (who did it last with success....Napoleon?)

While Belgium is on the flat European plain and a corridor to move through if your France headed east or Germany headed West.

---

Exactly. There is no large country that is not regularly subject to attack because of geography and valuable resources.
A prosperous and resource rich country like the US cannot afford to spend effort to isolate itself. It can insulate, but isolation leads to becoming an easier target as the US will always be due to its wealth.

---

Unless you can pull Canada or Mexico out of the USA orbit and get them to let you station troops in country ....then America is basically impenetrable to attack or invasion.





Surrounded on 3 sides by large oceans (one the Arctic ocean is basically impassable for invasion fleets)

With outward facing defensive islands (Hawaii/Puerto Rico) to place U.S. naval forces

With a small sliver of land to defend in central American along the isthmus there

Fortress North America essentially

No other nation on earth is as defended from invasion as us other than Australia....and it does not have our resources, population, or defensible natural barriers.

---

There is a quote attributed to Otto von Bismarck that America's power comes from it being surrounded on the north and south by weak neighbors, and on the east and west by fish.

whitetrash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

---

Classic geography issue

Switzerland is up in the alps and hard to conquer (who did it last with success....Napoleon?)

While Belgium is on the flat European plain and a corridor to move through if your France headed east or Germany headed West.

---

Exactly. There is no large country that is not regularly subject to attack because of geography and valuable resources.
A prosperous and resource rich country like the US cannot afford to spend effort to isolate itself. It can insulate, but isolation leads to becoming an easier target as the US will always be due to its wealth.

---

Unless you can pull Canada or Mexico out of the USA orbit and get them to let you station troops in country ....then America is basically impenetrable to attack or invasion.





Surrounded on 3 sides by large oceans (one the Arctic ocean is basically impassable for invasion fleets)

With outward facing defensive islands (Hawaii/Puerto Rico) to place U.S. naval forces

With a small sliver of land to defend in central American along the isthmus there

Fortress North America essentially

No other nation on earth is as defended from invasion as us other than Australia....and it does not have our resources, population, or defensible natural barriers.

---

There is a quote attributed to Otto von Bismarck that America's power comes from it being surrounded on the north and south by weak neighbors, and on the east and west by fish.

---

Gotta love Bismarck


"There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children, and the United States of America." -Bismarck


ps

Another of my favorites

19th century Mexican President Porfirio Diaz once said, "Poor Mexico, So Far From God, So Close to the United States."

whitetrash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

---

Classic geography issue

Switzerland is up in the alps and hard to conquer (who did it last with success....Napoleon?)

While Belgium is on the flat European plain and a corridor to move through if your France headed east or Germany headed West.

---

Exactly. There is no large country that is not regularly subject to attack because of geography and valuable resources.
A prosperous and resource rich country like the US cannot afford to spend effort to isolate itself. It can insulate, but isolation leads to becoming an easier target as the US will always be due to its wealth.

---

Unless you can pull Canada or Mexico out of the USA orbit and get them to let you station troops in country ....then America is basically impenetrable to attack or invasion.





Surrounded on 3 sides by large oceans (one the Arctic ocean is basically impassable for invasion fleets)

With outward facing defensive islands (Hawaii/Puerto Rico) to place U.S. naval forces

With a small sliver of land to defend in central American along the isthmus there

Fortress North America essentially

No other nation on earth is as defended from invasion as us other than Australia....and it does not have our resources, population, or defensible natural barriers.

---

There is a quote attributed to Otto von Bismarck that America's power comes from it being surrounded on the north and south by weak neighbors, and on the east and west by fish.

---

Never heard this before.

Thank you.

Bismarck was very astute.

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's still about survival for the Jews. They are an existential crisis fighting a war against barbaric terrorists who want them all dead. Too many posters in this forum dismiss or forget that fact. What's amazing is how some Israeli's seem to forget that as well. Although I'm I don't believe the propaganda from the antisemitic press on anything, particularly when it comes to numbers of self-hating Jews.

---

Over 550 Lebanese have been killed in the last 48 hours by indiscriminate Israeli air attacks.

What about their survival ?

Why are the lives of Israeli children more precious than Lebanese ?

---

Maybe the Lebanese should stop putting Hezbollah missiles in civilian houses. Could help. Sort of like Ukraine, Putin stops invading, no more attacks on Russia. Lebanon stops allowing missiles to be fired, no more missiles coming in Lebanon.

Or, they can leave. That's right Hezbollah won't let them, but its the IDF fault.

You were in the military, you give an evacuation order, give time to leave and then go forward. What should the IDF do? Just let them fire missiles into Israel? They have cruise missiles in houses.

---

A dead child, is a dead child, regardless if it's Israeli, Lebanese, Russian, Ukrainian, Palestinian, Kuwaitis, Iraqi or American.

With its nuclear weapons, armor and overwhelming air superiority; Israel feels immune to the consequences of its indiscriminate air attacks against a weak neighbor.

Hope Turkey finally brings some reality to the Zionists. Only then is there a real chance for a negotiated settlement.

Especially since our DC politicians have been bought and paid for by the Zionist lobbyists for decades.

The US needs to stop funding these butcheries. Period.
The US needs to stop using our poor and working class overseas to continue to bleed on behalf of our elites.


WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.

---

Might be right.

You have a better shot at peace is Israel wins than Hezbellan or Hamas. They will just find someone else to hate and kill. It is what they do.

---

They don't hate Swedes, Swiss, Hungarians, or anyone in Central or South America.

Maybe, just maybe it's because none of those countries launch air strikes throughout the Middle East periodically.

We simply need to be like a host of other countries and stop attempting to be the worlds policeman.

---

Well, for 80 years it worked. Someone had to do it and the US as the Policemen limited the wars to regional types.

Are we ready for what happens when the US as cop isn't there? When we are relying on Putin and Xi's sense of fairness and human rights?

Not saying you are wrong, just that there are ramifications either way.

---

WW2

500,000 dead US servicemen

Result : Japan, Germany and Italy crushed. Millions dead.

Soviet Union rules Eastern Europe for over 50 years.
China goes communist


Korean War

38,000 US servicemen killed

Result : Mao shows the rest of the Far East the US can be beaten in a conventional war. China begins its journey towards dominance.

Vietnam War

53,000 US servicemen dead. Hundreds of thousands wounded.
Humiliation for the United States worldwide. American society begins its crumbling.

First Iraqi War. Bush and the US Army kicks ass. Follows UN mandate. Liberates Kuwait. Protects western oil nerfs.

2nd Iraqi War. US Army kicks ass again. Conquers Iraqi in one of the most tactically brilliant displays since the Mexican War.
US politicians then lose the peace. Iran power grows in the vacuum.



Meanwhile

9-11 over 3000 US civilians dead

---

All the wars you describe were regional and limited. They occurred because the US and our allies were in position to keep it to a regional war and not go through WW1 or WW2 again.

---

We avoided another world war because we understood our opponents and respected their security interests. Today that's considered "anti-American."

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

And communists didn't meddle?

What major countries have avoided Muslim terrorist attacks?

---

Really think our legions of permanently crippled servicemen care who is a 'major' country in the eyes of internet posters ?

We are being led into still more wars.


THINK !


Vote for a different approach.

---

I'm all for a good debate on foreign policy.

What I'll counter is this odd "blame America" strain.

---

"I like a good debate, but I don't understand why the other side gets to talk."

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's still about survival for the Jews. They are an existential crisis fighting a war against barbaric terrorists who want them all dead. Too many posters in this forum dismiss or forget that fact. What's amazing is how some Israeli's seem to forget that as well. Although I'm I don't believe the propaganda from the antisemitic press on anything, particularly when it comes to numbers of self-hating Jews.

---

Over 550 Lebanese have been killed in the last 48 hours by indiscriminate Israeli air attacks.

What about their survival ?

Why are the lives of Israeli children more precious than Lebanese ?

---

Maybe the Lebanese should stop putting Hezbollah missiles in civilian houses. Could help. Sort of like Ukraine, Putin stops invading, no more attacks on Russia. Lebanon stops allowing missiles to be fired, no more missiles coming in Lebanon.

Or, they can leave. That's right Hezbollah won't let them, but its the IDF fault.

You were in the military, you give an evacuation order, give time to leave and then go forward. What should the IDF do? Just let them fire missiles into Israel? They have cruise missiles in houses.

---

A dead child, is a dead child, regardless if it's Israeli, Lebanese, Russian, Ukrainian, Palestinian, Kuwaitis, Iraqi or American.

With its nuclear weapons, armor and overwhelming air superiority; Israel feels immune to the consequences of its indiscriminate air attacks against a weak neighbor.

Hope Turkey finally brings some reality to the Zionists. Only then is there a real chance for a negotiated settlement.

Especially since our DC politicians have been bought and paid for by the Zionist lobbyists for decades.

The US needs to stop funding these butcheries. Period.
The US needs to stop using our poor and working class overseas to continue to bleed on behalf of our elites.


WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.

---

Might be right.

You have a better shot at peace is Israel wins than Hezbellan or Hamas. They will just find someone else to hate and kill. It is what they do.

---

They don't hate Swedes, Swiss, Hungarians, or anyone in Central or South America.

Maybe, just maybe it's because none of those countries launch air strikes throughout the Middle East periodically.

We simply need to be like a host of other countries and stop attempting to be the worlds policeman.

---

Well, for 80 years it worked. Someone had to do it and the US as the Policemen limited the wars to regional types.

Are we ready for what happens when the US as cop isn't there? When we are relying on Putin and Xi's sense of fairness and human rights?

Not saying you are wrong, just that there are ramifications either way.

---

WW2

500,000 dead US servicemen

Result : Japan, Germany and Italy crushed. Millions dead.

Soviet Union rules Eastern Europe for over 50 years.
China goes communist


Korean War

38,000 US servicemen killed

Result : Mao shows the rest of the Far East the US can be beaten in a conventional war. China begins its journey towards dominance.

Vietnam War

53,000 US servicemen dead. Hundreds of thousands wounded.
Humiliation for the United States worldwide. American society begins its crumbling.

First Iraqi War. Bush and the US Army kicks ass. Follows UN mandate. Liberates Kuwait. Protects western oil nerfs.

2nd Iraqi War. US Army kicks ass again. Conquers Iraqi in one of the most tactically brilliant displays since the Mexican War.
US politicians then lose the peace. Iran power grows in the vacuum.



Meanwhile

9-11 over 3000 US civilians dead

---

All the wars you describe were regional and limited. They occurred because the US and our allies were in position to keep it to a regional war and not go through WW1 or WW2 again.

---

We avoided another world war because we understood our opponents and respected their security interests. Today that's considered "anti-American."

---

Worse

The ivy league professors/international affairs departments are literally teaching the next crop of US leaders that spheres of influence are an outdated concept and don't exist.

Absolute madmen/ and women

"U.S. policymakers had ceased to recognize spheres of influence"

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/HKSEE/HKSEE%20PDFs/Allison_Spheres%20of%20Influence,%20Foreign%20Affairs,%20March-April%202020.pdf

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/event/spheres-of-influence-outdated-relic-or-renewed-reality/

https://cftni.org/recent-events/spheres-of-influence-outdated-relic-or-renewed-reality/

“Sphere of influence” is an outdated term from the 19th century thinking. Russia has no special rights over countries it ruled in the past. They are free to choose their alliances and their future. https://t.co/epHwP7U0HL https://t.co/Z3lhzw2wfg pic.twitter.com/rL2RfQwtz5

— Alex Kokcharov (@AlexKokcharov) July 20, 2024

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900. Literally a class of one. I'm not naive to the internal and existential threats we face today in order to maintain that, but with all due respect, we aren't here without our efforts to exert might across the globe.

---

Possibly i have acquired a more cautious approach.

---

I can respect and understand that even if I don't always agree with it.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's still about survival for the Jews. They are an existential crisis fighting a war against barbaric terrorists who want them all dead. Too many posters in this forum dismiss or forget that fact. What's amazing is how some Israeli's seem to forget that as well. Although I'm I don't believe the propaganda from the antisemitic press on anything, particularly when it comes to numbers of self-hating Jews.

---

Over 550 Lebanese have been killed in the last 48 hours by indiscriminate Israeli air attacks.

What about their survival ?

Why are the lives of Israeli children more precious than Lebanese ?

---

Maybe the Lebanese should stop putting Hezbollah missiles in civilian houses. Could help. Sort of like Ukraine, Putin stops invading, no more attacks on Russia. Lebanon stops allowing missiles to be fired, no more missiles coming in Lebanon.

Or, they can leave. That's right Hezbollah won't let them, but its the IDF fault.

You were in the military, you give an evacuation order, give time to leave and then go forward. What should the IDF do? Just let them fire missiles into Israel? They have cruise missiles in houses.

---

A dead child, is a dead child, regardless if it's Israeli, Lebanese, Russian, Ukrainian, Palestinian, Kuwaitis, Iraqi or American.

With its nuclear weapons, armor and overwhelming air superiority; Israel feels immune to the consequences of its indiscriminate air attacks against a weak neighbor.

Hope Turkey finally brings some reality to the Zionists. Only then is there a real chance for a negotiated settlement.

Especially since our DC politicians have been bought and paid for by the Zionist lobbyists for decades.

The US needs to stop funding these butcheries. Period.
The US needs to stop using our poor and working class overseas to continue to bleed on behalf of our elites.


WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.

---

Might be right.

You have a better shot at peace is Israel wins than Hezbellan or Hamas. They will just find someone else to hate and kill. It is what they do.

---

They don't hate Swedes, Swiss, Hungarians, or anyone in Central or South America.

Maybe, just maybe it's because none of those countries launch air strikes throughout the Middle East periodically.

We simply need to be like a host of other countries and stop attempting to be the worlds policeman.

---

Well, for 80 years it worked. Someone had to do it and the US as the Policemen limited the wars to regional types.

Are we ready for what happens when the US as cop isn't there? When we are relying on Putin and Xi's sense of fairness and human rights?

Not saying you are wrong, just that there are ramifications either way.

---

WW2

500,000 dead US servicemen

Result : Japan, Germany and Italy crushed. Millions dead.

Soviet Union rules Eastern Europe for over 50 years.
China goes communist


Korean War

38,000 US servicemen killed

Result : Mao shows the rest of the Far East the US can be beaten in a conventional war. China begins its journey towards dominance.

Vietnam War

53,000 US servicemen dead. Hundreds of thousands wounded.
Humiliation for the United States worldwide. American society begins its crumbling.

First Iraqi War. Bush and the US Army kicks ass. Follows UN mandate. Liberates Kuwait. Protects western oil nerfs.

2nd Iraqi War. US Army kicks ass again. Conquers Iraqi in one of the most tactically brilliant displays since the Mexican War.
US politicians then lose the peace. Iran power grows in the vacuum.



Meanwhile

9-11 over 3000 US civilians dead

---

All the wars you describe were regional and limited. They occurred because the US and our allies were in position to keep it to a regional war and not go through WW1 or WW2 again.

---

We avoided another world war because we understood our opponents and respected their security interests. Today that's considered "anti-American."

---

Worse

The ivy league professors/international affairs departments are literally teaching the next crop of US leaders that spheres of influence are an outdated concept and don't exist.

Absolute madmen/ and women

"U.S. policymakers had ceased to recognize spheres of influence"

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/HKSEE/HKSEE%20PDFs/Allison_Spheres%20of%20Influence,%20Foreign%20Affairs,%20March-April%202020.pdf

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/event/spheres-of-influence-outdated-relic-or-renewed-reality/

https://cftni.org/recent-events/spheres-of-influence-outdated-relic-or-renewed-reality/

“Sphere of influence” is an outdated term from the 19th century thinking. Russia has no special rights over countries it ruled in the past. They are free to choose their alliances and their future. https://t.co/epHwP7U0HL https://t.co/Z3lhzw2wfg pic.twitter.com/rL2RfQwtz5

— Alex Kokcharov (@AlexKokcharov) July 20, 2024

---

Depends upon the type and purpose of influence. In a local community analogy, is it the church or a street gang? I also think the importance of history and geography is overstated as well.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

Not as dangerous if you are the lone hyper power military/economic giant on earth.

Goat herders vs U.S. marines will billions in tech was always going to be a one sided casualty event.

But to the thousands of dead Americans and their families it's still bad.

(And the 1 million dead Iraqis and millions displaced)

Not to mention in most cases the world policing has just not worked well.

The one world policing duty the USA can do well….that costs little on lives…and that is of great help to the world is keeping the ocean shipping lanes open.

That is world policing we do well and that benefits everyone

---

The objective is to become the hyper power..

---

Leaving aside I'm not sure how that fits into the Founders ideals of being a free Republic with limited government….

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -Madison

The big problem is not getting there…it's not blundering into crises that destroy it

---

Madison was speaking at a time where fighting for freedom was a nascent ideal. Most wars of the era were for Monarchical power.

And I agree that the key is to not blunder it away.

---

Fighting for freedom is a talking point, not an ideal. Madison would be overcome with laughter to hear that we're fighting for freedom in the Middle East, Europe, or anywhere else.

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's still about survival for the Jews. They are an existential crisis fighting a war against barbaric terrorists who want them all dead. Too many posters in this forum dismiss or forget that fact. What's amazing is how some Israeli's seem to forget that as well. Although I'm I don't believe the propaganda from the antisemitic press on anything, particularly when it comes to numbers of self-hating Jews.

---

Over 550 Lebanese have been killed in the last 48 hours by indiscriminate Israeli air attacks.

What about their survival ?

Why are the lives of Israeli children more precious than Lebanese ?

---

Maybe the Lebanese should stop putting Hezbollah missiles in civilian houses. Could help. Sort of like Ukraine, Putin stops invading, no more attacks on Russia. Lebanon stops allowing missiles to be fired, no more missiles coming in Lebanon.

Or, they can leave. That's right Hezbollah won't let them, but its the IDF fault.

You were in the military, you give an evacuation order, give time to leave and then go forward. What should the IDF do? Just let them fire missiles into Israel? They have cruise missiles in houses.

---

A dead child, is a dead child, regardless if it's Israeli, Lebanese, Russian, Ukrainian, Palestinian, Kuwaitis, Iraqi or American.

With its nuclear weapons, armor and overwhelming air superiority; Israel feels immune to the consequences of its indiscriminate air attacks against a weak neighbor.

Hope Turkey finally brings some reality to the Zionists. Only then is there a real chance for a negotiated settlement.

Especially since our DC politicians have been bought and paid for by the Zionist lobbyists for decades.

The US needs to stop funding these butcheries. Period.
The US needs to stop using our poor and working class overseas to continue to bleed on behalf of our elites.


WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.

---

Might be right.

You have a better shot at peace is Israel wins than Hezbellan or Hamas. They will just find someone else to hate and kill. It is what they do.

---

They don't hate Swedes, Swiss, Hungarians, or anyone in Central or South America.

Maybe, just maybe it's because none of those countries launch air strikes throughout the Middle East periodically.

We simply need to be like a host of other countries and stop attempting to be the worlds policeman.

---

Well, for 80 years it worked. Someone had to do it and the US as the Policemen limited the wars to regional types.

Are we ready for what happens when the US as cop isn't there? When we are relying on Putin and Xi's sense of fairness and human rights?

Not saying you are wrong, just that there are ramifications either way.

---

WW2

500,000 dead US servicemen

Result : Japan, Germany and Italy crushed. Millions dead.

Soviet Union rules Eastern Europe for over 50 years.
China goes communist


Korean War

38,000 US servicemen killed

Result : Mao shows the rest of the Far East the US can be beaten in a conventional war. China begins its journey towards dominance.

Vietnam War

53,000 US servicemen dead. Hundreds of thousands wounded.
Humiliation for the United States worldwide. American society begins its crumbling.

First Iraqi War. Bush and the US Army kicks ass. Follows UN mandate. Liberates Kuwait. Protects western oil nerfs.

2nd Iraqi War. US Army kicks ass again. Conquers Iraqi in one of the most tactically brilliant displays since the Mexican War.
US politicians then lose the peace. Iran power grows in the vacuum.



Meanwhile

9-11 over 3000 US civilians dead

---

All the wars you describe were regional and limited. They occurred because the US and our allies were in position to keep it to a regional war and not go through WW1 or WW2 again.

---

We avoided another world war because we understood our opponents and respected their security interests. Today that's considered "anti-American."

---

We both chose to fight proxy wars and not direct wars.

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

---

Classic geography issue

Switzerland is up in the alps and hard to conquer (who did it last with success....Napoleon?)

While Belgium is on the flat European plain and a corridor to move through if your France headed east or Germany headed West.

---

Exactly. There is no large country that is not regularly subject to attack because of geography and valuable resources.
A prosperous and resource rich country like the US cannot afford to spend effort to isolate itself. It can insulate, but isolation leads to becoming an easier target as the US will always be due to its wealth.

---

Unless you can pull Canada or Mexico out of the USA orbit and get them to let you station troops in country ....then America is basically impenetrable to attack or invasion.





Surrounded on 3 sides by large oceans (one the Arctic ocean is basically impassable for invasion fleets)

With outward facing defensive islands (Hawaii/Puerto Rico) to place U.S. naval forces

With a small sliver of land to defend in central American along the isthmus there

Fortress North America essentially

No other nation on earth is as defended from invasion as us other than Australia....and it does not have our resources, population, or defensible natural barriers.

---

This.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

Not as dangerous if you are the lone hyper power military/economic giant on earth.

Goat herders vs U.S. marines will billions in tech was always going to be a one sided casualty event.

But to the thousands of dead Americans and their families it's still bad.

(And the 1 million dead Iraqis and millions displaced)

Not to mention in most cases the world policing has just not worked well.

The one world policing duty the USA can do well….that costs little on lives…and that is of great help to the world is keeping the ocean shipping lanes open.

That is world policing we do well and that benefits everyone

---

The objective is to become the hyper power..

---

Leaving aside I'm not sure how that fits into the Founders ideals of being a free Republic with limited government….

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -Madison

The big problem is not getting there…it's not blundering into crises that destroy it

---

Madison was speaking at a time where fighting for freedom was a nascent ideal. Most wars of the era were for Monarchical power.

And I agree that the key is to not blunder it away.

---

Fighting for freedom is a talking point, not an ideal. Madison would be overcome with laughter to hear that we're fighting for freedom in the Middle East, Europe, or anywhere else.

---

Freedom is won after the wars, not because of them. That's why fighting campaigns succeed, and nation builds fail.

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

---

Exactly, the isolationist idea that we can become Switzerland or some Nation that is not involved is an unrealistic expectation..

---

And respectfully….no one is advocating for that

Americans want less foreign adventurism and regime change wars (Iraq) and less pricey proxy wars that could spin out of control (ukriane)

No one in America wants "isolationism"

---

There are some on this Board. They specifically said that Switzerland and others have no one attack them, don't spend money and don't send their people to die in foreign wars.

---

You bet your ass. Switzerland has done extremely well avoiding the **** shows.

Honestly, haven't you ever noticed ?

Those who have seen the corpses stack up, don't want to be used in another avoidable war ever again.

Whereas those who have never had so much as a broken finger and know they are insulated from seeing combat…….are ALWAYS the biggest Rambo's in any room.

Think I am wrong ?

Just re institute the DRAFT and see what happens.

---

Switzerland has never been on anyone's list for invasion as the return is not worth the trouble.
Neutral Belgium on the other hand….

---

Classic geography issue

Switzerland is up in the alps and hard to conquer (who did it last with success....Napoleon?)

While Belgium is on the flat European plain and a corridor to move through if your France headed east or Germany headed West.

---

Exactly. There is no large country that is not regularly subject to attack because of geography and valuable resources.
A prosperous and resource rich country like the US cannot afford to spend effort to isolate itself. It can insulate, but isolation leads to becoming an easier target as the US will always be due to its wealth.

---

Unless you can pull Canada or Mexico out of the USA orbit and get them to let you station troops in country ....then America is basically impenetrable to attack or invasion.





Surrounded on 3 sides by large oceans (one the Arctic ocean is basically impassable for invasion fleets)

With outward facing defensive islands (Hawaii/Puerto Rico) to place U.S. naval forces

With a small sliver of land to defend in central American along the isthmus there

Fortress North America essentially

No other nation on earth is as defended from invasion as us other than Australia....and it does not have our resources, population, or defensible natural barriers.

---

Yes, that and the most formidable fighting force in the world called the U.S. Navy. Strong navies have been the cornerstone of hyper powers ever since we figured out how to traverse the oceans.