Redbrickbear said:

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KaiBear said:

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Realitybites said:

---

boognish_bear said:

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Israel using several female fighter pilots in the strikes against the Islamist regime which has subjugated and enslaved the women of Iran is truly poetic justice. pic.twitter.com/03W4U59Gna

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) October 26, 2024

---

No, this isn't poetic justice. It is merely another example of the feminist exhibitionism that is destroying western civilization. Women do not belong in combat roles.

---

Disagree.

There are some tough, clear minded, women who are valuable in any combat zone.

---

Like in all thing....there are always outliers

In general....women will never be as effective as men in direct combat roles

---

Again I disagree.

The degradation of US males makes the inclusion of qualified women necessary.

Studies have found, that under the rigors of prolonged combat ; such women to be the equal of men psychologically.

Their only limitation is physical strength.

KaiBear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

boognish_bear said:

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Israel using several female fighter pilots in the strikes against the Islamist regime which has subjugated and enslaved the women of Iran is truly poetic justice. pic.twitter.com/03W4U59Gna

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) October 26, 2024

---

No, this isn't poetic justice. It is merely another example of the feminist exhibitionism that is destroying western civilization. Women do not belong in combat roles.

---

Disagree.

There are some tough, clear minded, women who are valuable in any combat zone.

---

Like in all thing....there are always outliers

In general....women will never be as effective as men in direct combat roles

---

Again I disagree.

The degradation of US males makes the inclusion of qualified women necessary.

Studies have found, that under the rigors of prolonged combat ; such women to be the equal of men psychologically.

Their only limitation is physical strength.

---

I seriously doubt the female brain evolved over eons to handle the stress of combat/warfare better than the male brain

But maybe....but I doubt it

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Israel using several female fighter pilots in the strikes against the Islamist regime which has subjugated and enslaved the women of Iran is truly poetic justice. pic.twitter.com/03W4U59Gna

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) October 26, 2024

---

No, this isn't poetic justice. It is merely another example of the feminist exhibitionism that is destroying western civilization. Women do not belong in combat roles.

---

Disagree.

There are some tough, clear minded, women who are valuable in any combat zone.

---

Like in all thing....there are always outliers

In general....women will never be as effective as men in direct combat roles

---

Again I disagree.

The degradation of US males makes the inclusion of qualified women necessary.

Studies have found, that under the rigors of prolonged combat ; such women to be the equal of men psychologically.

Their only limitation is physical strength.

---

I seriously doubt the female brain evolved over eons to handle the stress of combat/warfare better than the male brain

But maybe....but I doubt it

---

Women can be just as effective. The issue is the physical strength and what can be done to them upon capture. I do not think it is a mental toughness or competence issue, I served with some tough women. One was on the Golden Knights Parachute team and would kick most guys ass (Maine girl, she scared me...).

Redbrickbear said:

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ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

I think the bigger difference is actually Japan, not America. Japan before WW1 was relatively peaceful, outside of the conflict with Russia. Japan wanted to maintain it's influence over Manchuria, but Russia refused to allow that... so they went to war. Japan won the war, and the begging of the Russian decline followed.
Japan was not really an ally of America... it was an ally of the UK. When America joined the war, we were allies with everyone who was an ally of the UK. So technically, we were allies with Japan.

Japan in the 1930s was invading, conquering and occupying nations all around Eastern Asia.
They invaded China, Indochina, and many other nations. They also became allies with Nazi Germany, who was occupying many of our allied nations (France, Belgum, etc) and currently bombing the UK.
So the US stopped trade with Japan because of their actions in Asia, and their support of Germany in Europe.

American polices had nothing to do with Japan becoming an ally of Nazi Germany. Likewise, American polices had nothing to do with Japan invading & conquering nations all across Asia & the Pacific.

The reasons for Japan being an ally and becoming an enemy fall completely upon Japan... not the US.

---

Great post

You also have to wonder if geography played a role in Japan's rise to greatness

"the cost of transport via water is roughly 10 to 30 times cheaper than overland. This simple fact makes countries with robust maritime transport options extremely capital-rich when compared to countries limited to land-only options. This factor is the primary reason why the major economic powers of the past half-millennia have been Japan, Germany, France, the United Kingdom and the United States."

---

Geography certainly helped shape Japan's history, although it did not cause events. As an island nation, they became a maritime power after the Meiji Restoration in the late 19th century. Before they, however, they were almost completely cut off from the rest of the world for 250 years under the Tokugawa Shogunate. This was only possible for an island nation. It was a period of peace & prosperity but little technical advancement. I don't know of any other place that had 250 years with no warfare any time in history. Commodore Perry ended that and the lack of scientific advancement of industrialization made them relatively weak, ending the regime.

pic.twitter.com/jr3T8AIh6q

— Chris Brunet (@realChrisBrunet) October 29, 2024

The_barBEARian said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Iran informed Israel through a foreign mediator that it will not respond to Israel's attack.

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) October 26, 2024

---

This is an exit ramp. Even Iran is figuring it out that war is not in anyone's best interest Only true psychos like Putin and NKorea seem to want it.

---

Once Trump gets back in there and ends the war in Ukraine, we will all see who the real psychos are... they live among us unfortunately.

---

Yes, you speak to one in the mirror daily.

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

We liberated China from Japanese invasion. In less than 5 years we were fighting them in a country that was an ally, only to lose half of it to our former ally.

Life moves fast when vacuums occur.

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

img]

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yeah, Spetznaz teams, migrations of workers to Crimea and moving of Eastern Ukrainians out. The usual Russian methods...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yeah, Spetznaz teams, migrations of workers to Crimea and moving of Eastern Ukrainians out. The usual Russian methods...

---

Russia has been involved with Ukraine since the 1600s

DC elites could not have cared less about the place until the post 2000 era

Why are they spending billions on a proxy war again? (One that is unlikely to be successful)

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yeah, Spetznaz teams, migrations of workers to Crimea and moving of Eastern Ukrainians out. The usual Russian methods...

---

Russia has been involved with Ukraine since the 1600s

DC elites could not have cared less about the place until the post 2000 era

Why are they spending billions on a proxy war again? (One that is unlikely to be successful)

---

Everyone has been there! It is the crossstreet of the world. Crimea was more British than Russian!

Redbrickbear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Israel using several female fighter pilots in the strikes against the Islamist regime which has subjugated and enslaved the women of Iran is truly poetic justice. pic.twitter.com/03W4U59Gna

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) October 26, 2024

---

No, this isn't poetic justice. It is merely another example of the feminist exhibitionism that is destroying western civilization. Women do not belong in combat roles.

---

Interesting enough women have been proven to be able to keep tract of more individual targets than men.

Men basically lose the ability to keep tract of more than 3 individual targets while women can easily double that number.

But they are far less able to handle G forces in a fighter plane

[G tolerance: Some studies have found that women have a significant difference in G tolerance when matched for height. Pilot selection tests: The U.S. Air Force has found that there are mean score differences on pilot selection tests between men and women]

---

and.....having women serving where they CAN be effective frees up males to lug 80lb rucksacks into battle.

My daughter is a good example. She's a logistics readiness careerist - moving things into battle. She will be at risk of long-range artillery when at base and SAM/AAM fire when in the air, but not actually patrolling except the defensive lines at her own base to guard against unlikely scenarios. Filling her spot with a woman frees up a dude to put on a rucksack and head to the front lines to face small arms & arty fire all day, every day.. The proliferation of roles for drones in warfare also creates demand for roles women could perform well quite far from the front lines.

That is not to say there not problems to manage. Are the American people ready to see their daughters become POWs in 3rd world jails? (I think not). And there are definitely "close-quarters" issues with women on naval deployments, complicating good order & discipline.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yeah, Spetznaz teams, migrations of workers to Crimea and moving of Eastern Ukrainians out. The usual Russian methods...

---

Russia has been involved with Ukraine since the 1600s

DC elites could not have cared less about the place until the post 2000 era

Why are they spending billions on a proxy war again? (One that is unlikely to be successful)

---

Everyone has been there! It is the crossstreet of the world. Crimea was more British than Russian!

---

Please

How long exactly was it British?

While ethnic Russians make up the current majority of Crimea and has been ruled by Russia since the 1700s

You don't believe in self determination for peoples?

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

Massive Uke propaganda spew in 3...2...1...

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

Massive Uke propaganda spew in 3...2...1...

---

More Russian propaganda from the Russian in 3....2.....1....

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine. That never was a consideration until Russia decided to take it over. Even their handpicked Presidents didn't think that way.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine.

---

Well demographically its certainly not filled with ethnic Ukrainians. (Donbass and Crimea are full of ethnic russians)

But the people there were ok with being ruled by Kyiv until a bloody coup in 2014 overthrew their candidate who had won the election for another one hostile to their interests.

Who sponsored that coup ATL?

Who set off this cycle of violence that has gripped the country since 2014....

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine. That never was a consideration until Russia decided to take it over. Even their handpicked Presidents didn't think that way.

---

That has nothing to do with my position. No one thought that way until Russia decided to take it over.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine.

---

Well demographically its certainly not filled with ethnic Ukrainians. (Donbass and Crimea are full of ethnic russians)

But the people there were ok with being ruled by Kyiv until a bloody coup in 2014 overthrew their candidate who had won the election for another one hostile to their interests.

Who sponsored that coup ATL?

Who set off this cycle of violence that has gripped the country since 2014....

---

The Russians, and it started well before 2014.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine.

---

Well demographically its certainly not filled with ethnic Ukrainians. (Donbass and Crimea are full of ethnic russians)

But the people there were ok with being ruled by Kyiv until a bloody coup in 2014 overthrew their candidate who had won the election for another one hostile to their interests.

Who sponsored that coup ATL?

Who set off this cycle of violence that has gripped the country since 2014....

---

The Russians

---

You can be sure that the Russians did not start the Maidan revolution/coup in Kyiv


[Chapter 4 describes the Maidan events the start of the war. Mass social mobilization began when the government rejected an EU trade agreement. It ended with a regime change. These protests marked the first time since independence that police used excessive force against protesters in a significant way. A radical subset of protesters then used violence strategically against the police. The Party of Regions imploded and power transferred to the opposition. This created a crisis of political legitimacy and two opposing narratives. In one narrative, the illegitimate police violence against protesters finished the regime ("Revolution of Dignity"). In the other, the street violence against the police created an illegitimate political outcome ("fascist coup"). Anti-Maidan protesters in the East formed militias, acting on the second narrative. The roots of Ukraine's war -whatever one calls it - can thus be traced to Maidan.]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/ukraines-unnamed-war/regime-change-maidan/BEEA67BB188AC655A1EFDC142D77C664

Isn't it funny how every political poll, election, party, or candidate in Ukraine is fraudulent except the US-backed coup regime? I guess that's why it's okay for Zelensky to ban all of the opposition.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Isn't it funny how every political poll, election, party, or candidate in Ukraine is fraudulent except the US-backed coup regime? I guess that's why it's okay for Zelensky to ban all of the opposition.

---

Its one of the most corrupt countries out there.

But somehow the corruption only flows one way...

ATL Bear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Iran informed Israel through a foreign mediator that it will not respond to Israel's attack.

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) October 26, 2024

---

This is an exit ramp. Even Iran is figuring it out that war is not in anyone's best interest Only true psychos like Putin and NKorea seem to want it.

---

Once Trump gets back in there and ends the war in Ukraine, we will all see who the real psychos are... they live among us unfortunately.

---

Yes, you speak to one in the mirror daily.

---

Stay mad.

Trump, if elected, will end the Ukraine war in the next 12 months so you better grab a rifle and put on some Kevlar and get over there now before your chance to LARP WW3 expires.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine.

---

Well demographically its certainly not filled with ethnic Ukrainians. (Donbass and Crimea are full of ethnic russians)

But the people there were ok with being ruled by Kyiv until a bloody coup in 2014 overthrew their candidate who had won the election for another one hostile to their interests.

Who sponsored that coup ATL?

Who set off this cycle of violence that has gripped the country since 2014....

---

The Russians

---

You can be sure that the Russians did not start the Maidan revolution/coup in Kyiv


[Chapter 4 describes the Maidan events the start of the war. Mass social mobilization began when the government rejected an EU trade agreement. It ended with a regime change. These protests marked the first time since independence that police used excessive force against protesters in a significant way. A radical subset of protesters then used violence strategically against the police. The Party of Regions imploded and power transferred to the opposition. This created a crisis of political legitimacy and two opposing narratives. In one narrative, the illegitimate police violence against protesters finished the regime ("Revolution of Dignity"). In the other, the street violence against the police created an illegitimate political outcome ("fascist coup"). Anti-Maidan protesters in the East formed militias, acting on the second narrative. The roots of Ukraine's war -whatever one calls it - can thus be traced to Maidan.]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/ukraines-unnamed-war/regime-change-maidan/BEEA67BB188AC655A1EFDC142D77C664

---

Maidan was a result of the decades of Russian corruption and meddling leading up to it. It's amazing how you guys will cite 17th century history for Russian claims on Ukraine, but there's a 20 year memory hole from post Soviet Union to Maidan. It's amazing how inept you claim the U.S. foreign policy apparatus is, yet in less than 60 days they went from all is hunky dory to pulling off a coup. Hell Victoria Nuland wasn't even in her position at State until late September of 2013.

Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine. That never was a consideration until Russia decided to take it over. Even their handpicked Presidents didn't think that way.

---

That has nothing to do with my position. No one thought that way until Russia decided to take it over.

---

You mean no one thought that way until Russian propaganda infected the echo chambers in Social and online media.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine.

---

Well demographically its certainly not filled with ethnic Ukrainians. (Donbass and Crimea are full of ethnic russians)

But the people there were ok with being ruled by Kyiv until a bloody coup in 2014 overthrew their candidate who had won the election for another one hostile to their interests.

Who sponsored that coup ATL?

Who set off this cycle of violence that has gripped the country since 2014....

---

The Russians

---

You can be sure that the Russians did not start the Maidan revolution/coup in Kyiv


[Chapter 4 describes the Maidan events the start of the war. Mass social mobilization began when the government rejected an EU trade agreement. It ended with a regime change. These protests marked the first time since independence that police used excessive force against protesters in a significant way. A radical subset of protesters then used violence strategically against the police. The Party of Regions imploded and power transferred to the opposition. This created a crisis of political legitimacy and two opposing narratives. In one narrative, the illegitimate police violence against protesters finished the regime ("Revolution of Dignity"). In the other, the street violence against the police created an illegitimate political outcome ("fascist coup"). Anti-Maidan protesters in the East formed militias, acting on the second narrative. The roots of Ukraine's war -whatever one calls it - can thus be traced to Maidan.]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/ukraines-unnamed-war/regime-change-maidan/BEEA67BB188AC655A1EFDC142D77C664

---

It's amazing how inept you claim the U.S. foreign policy apparatus is,.

---

I never claimed it's "inept"

They are experts on getting us into wars and conflicts

They are just not good at winning wars of occupation

Or maybe they never intended to win wars of occupation? Maybe it was all just a money laundering operation

That would make some sense actually

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine.

---

Well demographically its certainly not filled with ethnic Ukrainians. (Donbass and Crimea are full of ethnic russians)

But the people there were ok with being ruled by Kyiv until a bloody coup in 2014 overthrew their candidate who had won the election for another one hostile to their interests.

Who sponsored that coup ATL?

Who set off this cycle of violence that has gripped the country since 2014....

---

The Russians

---

You can be sure that the Russians did not start the Maidan revolution/coup in Kyiv


[Chapter 4 describes the Maidan events the start of the war. Mass social mobilization began when the government rejected an EU trade agreement. It ended with a regime change. These protests marked the first time since independence that police used excessive force against protesters in a significant way. A radical subset of protesters then used violence strategically against the police. The Party of Regions imploded and power transferred to the opposition. This created a crisis of political legitimacy and two opposing narratives. In one narrative, the illegitimate police violence against protesters finished the regime ("Revolution of Dignity"). In the other, the street violence against the police created an illegitimate political outcome ("fascist coup"). Anti-Maidan protesters in the East formed militias, acting on the second narrative. The roots of Ukraine's war -whatever one calls it - can thus be traced to Maidan.]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/ukraines-unnamed-war/regime-change-maidan/BEEA67BB188AC655A1EFDC142D77C664

---

Maidan was a result of the decades of Russian corruption and meddling leading up to it. It's amazing how you guys will cite 17th century history for Russian claims on Ukraine, but there's a 20 year memory hole from post Soviet Union to Maidan. It's amazing how inept you claim the U.S. foreign policy apparatus is, yet in less than 60 days they went from all is hunky dory to pulling off a coup. Hell Victoria Nuland wasn't even in her position at State until late September of 2013.

---

Total straw man. We've covered how the US spent years, even decades, destabilizing Ukraine. Maidan was only a culmination of our efforts going back to the Orange Revolution and beyond.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine.

---

Well demographically its certainly not filled with ethnic Ukrainians. (Donbass and Crimea are full of ethnic russians)

But the people there were ok with being ruled by Kyiv until a bloody coup in 2014 overthrew their candidate who had won the election for another one hostile to their interests.

Who sponsored that coup ATL?

Who set off this cycle of violence that has gripped the country since 2014....

---

The Russians

---

You can be sure that the Russians did not start the Maidan revolution/coup in Kyiv


[Chapter 4 describes the Maidan events the start of the war. Mass social mobilization began when the government rejected an EU trade agreement. It ended with a regime change. These protests marked the first time since independence that police used excessive force against protesters in a significant way. A radical subset of protesters then used violence strategically against the police. The Party of Regions imploded and power transferred to the opposition. This created a crisis of political legitimacy and two opposing narratives. In one narrative, the illegitimate police violence against protesters finished the regime ("Revolution of Dignity"). In the other, the street violence against the police created an illegitimate political outcome ("fascist coup"). Anti-Maidan protesters in the East formed militias, acting on the second narrative. The roots of Ukraine's war -whatever one calls it - can thus be traced to Maidan.]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/ukraines-unnamed-war/regime-change-maidan/BEEA67BB188AC655A1EFDC142D77C664

---

Maidan was a result of the decades of Russian corruption and meddling leading up to it. It's amazing how you guys will cite 17th century history for Russian claims on Ukraine, but there's a 20 year memory hole from post Soviet Union to Maidan. It's amazing how inept you claim the U.S. foreign policy apparatus is, yet in less than 60 days they went from all is hunky dory to pulling off a coup. Hell Victoria Nuland wasn't even in her position at State until late September of 2013.

---

Total straw man. We've covered how the US spent years, even decades, destabilizing Ukraine. Maidan was only a culmination of our efforts going back to the Orange Revolution and beyond.

---

Complete horse hockey.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Japan was an Allied Power in World War I.

23 years later they bombed Pearl Harbor.

Such a drastic change requires some self examination. It is also a lesson on how quickly the world can change.

---

Are you implying that the United States was somehow responsible for causing the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor? That the US did something that made them want to attack?

---

I'm saying that if in 23 years you can go from fighting a war with someone to fighting a war against someone that the foreign policy that led to such an outcome needs to have a proctologist look at it.

This is equally true of the few decades from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the current mess in Ukraine.

Not all wars can be avoided. But it is one thing for simmering tensions between hostile nations to boil over (Armenia/Azerbaijan), and it is quite another to convert an ally or potential ally into an enemy in a short period of time.

---

Curious, how was Ukraine the US fault or avoidable? Ukraine and the others wanted to align west and have access to the western economy and security.

---

You keep shilling for that State Department/CIA talking point

In truth half of Ukraine's voting population did not want to align with DC-Brussels and consistently voted for the pro-Moscow party (The Party of Regions)

They even won the election in 2010 by 49.55% of the vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

Indeed a various points its been the largest political party in Ukraine (until Zelensky banned it)

[The Party of Regions ,Partiia rehioniv, is a political party in Ukraine formed in late 1997 that became the largest party in Ukraine between 2006 and 2014.]


Ukraine was always a divided country between its capital region and western provinces who wanted to align with the EU-USA and its eastern provinces that wanted to align with Russia

Obviously both DC and Moscow have engaged in taking advantage of those internal fault lines to try and pull the whole country into one or the other camp.

But its foolish and wrong to say that "all Ukrainians wanted to align with Russia" or to say "all Ukrainians wanted to align with the West"

---

Gee, I wonder how the Party of Regions happened to ascend to power during that period…

---

By building an electoral power base in the Eastern part of the country?

---

Yes, how do you think they built this "electoral power base"? Just ask another Eastern Ukrainian politician like Yulia Tymoshenko.

---

Probably by appealing to the ethnic Russians that inhabit those regions

(They don't want to align with the U.S.-EU

All their trade, cultural, historical ties are East with Russia)

---

You and Sam's fundamental flaw is you posit the same Russian BS that somehow Eastern Ukraine isn't Ukraine.

---

Well demographically its certainly not filled with ethnic Ukrainians. (Donbass and Crimea are full of ethnic russians)

But the people there were ok with being ruled by Kyiv until a bloody coup in 2014 overthrew their candidate who had won the election for another one hostile to their interests.

Who sponsored that coup ATL?

Who set off this cycle of violence that has gripped the country since 2014....

---

The Russians

---

You can be sure that the Russians did not start the Maidan revolution/coup in Kyiv


[Chapter 4 describes the Maidan events the start of the war. Mass social mobilization began when the government rejected an EU trade agreement. It ended with a regime change. These protests marked the first time since independence that police used excessive force against protesters in a significant way. A radical subset of protesters then used violence strategically against the police. The Party of Regions imploded and power transferred to the opposition. This created a crisis of political legitimacy and two opposing narratives. In one narrative, the illegitimate police violence against protesters finished the regime ("Revolution of Dignity"). In the other, the street violence against the police created an illegitimate political outcome ("fascist coup"). Anti-Maidan protesters in the East formed militias, acting on the second narrative. The roots of Ukraine's war -whatever one calls it - can thus be traced to Maidan.]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/ukraines-unnamed-war/regime-change-maidan/BEEA67BB188AC655A1EFDC142D77C664

---

Maidan was a result of the decades of Russian corruption and meddling leading up to it. It's amazing how you guys will cite 17th century history for Russian claims on Ukraine, but there's a 20 year memory hole from post Soviet Union to Maidan. It's amazing how inept you claim the U.S. foreign policy apparatus is, yet in less than 60 days they went from all is hunky dory to pulling off a coup. Hell Victoria Nuland wasn't even in her position at State until late September of 2013.

---

Total straw man. We've covered how the US spent years, even decades, destabilizing Ukraine. Maidan was only a culmination of our efforts going back to the Orange Revolution and beyond.

---

Complete horse hockey.

---

to be fair, that's all he has......

🚨 Breaking: CNN reports according to a high-ranking Iranian official that Iran 🇮🇷 will launch a massive attack on Israel 🇮🇱 within days.

Israeli sources said if Iran does so, Israel will respond by destroying Iran's nuclear sites ☢️ and oil infrastructure 🛢️

FAFO coming soon.

— Dr. Eli David (@DrEliDavid) October 30, 2024

The US has deployed B-52 bombers to the Middle East. 🇺🇸

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) November 1, 2024