Redbrickbear said:

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Realitybites said:

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Meanwhile, in the country with the second largest military in NATO...

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Our dear friends the Turks….

It will be interesting interesting to see how neocons keep their sanity if Turkey declares war, escalation ensues, Israel hits Turkey with an airstrike, and Erdogan invokes Article 5. pic.twitter.com/tSKE5gMVik

— Laocoon of Troy (@LaocoonofTroy) October 29, 2023

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Realitybites said:

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Meanwhile, in the country with the second largest military in NATO...

● JUST IN | During a rally in support of Palestine, Turkish President Erdoğan mentioned, 'We can come at any night unexpectedly,' and hundreds of thousands of Turkish citizens chanted, 'Turkish military to Gaza' in response pic.twitter.com/pOLBGHTNeT

— The Spot (@Spotnewsth) October 28, 2023

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Our dear friends the Turks….

It will be interesting interesting to see how neocons keep their sanity if Turkey declares war, escalation ensues, Israel hits Turkey with an airstrike, and Erdogan invokes Article 5. pic.twitter.com/tSKE5gMVik

— Laocoon of Troy (@LaocoonofTroy) October 29, 2023

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I am becoming more and more convinced this is an AI planned scenario by China and maybe even Russia.

Look at the pieces being moved and the fall out, the fall out is several layers below the expected areas. Turkey creating a NATO Article 5 crisis? This is 3d chess stuff...

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Realitybites said:

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Meanwhile, in the country with the second largest military in NATO...

● JUST IN | During a rally in support of Palestine, Turkish President Erdoğan mentioned, 'We can come at any night unexpectedly,' and hundreds of thousands of Turkish citizens chanted, 'Turkish military to Gaza' in response pic.twitter.com/pOLBGHTNeT

— The Spot (@Spotnewsth) October 28, 2023

---

Our dear friends the Turks….

It will be interesting interesting to see how neocons keep their sanity if Turkey declares war, escalation ensues, Israel hits Turkey with an airstrike, and Erdogan invokes Article 5. pic.twitter.com/tSKE5gMVik

— Laocoon of Troy (@LaocoonofTroy) October 29, 2023

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I am becoming more and more convinced this is an AI planned scenario by China and maybe even Russia.

Look at the pieces being moved and the fall out, the fall out is several layers below the expected areas. Turkey creating a NATO Article 5 crisis? This is 3d chess stuff...

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I doubt any of these actors are that smart for 3d chess type scenarios.

I think more likely this is just what happens when you have chaotic situations, bad actors, and a coalition of allies that often distrust each other or even hate each other.

Turkey especially has been a bad friend. Needed for its vital location...but other wise a untrustworthy entity.

Be it helping engage in Armenian ethnic cleansing in Nagorno-Karabakh enclave with Azerbaijan, playing footsie with China with the Belt & Road initiative, letting millions of Syrian refugees pour into Europe, shooting rockets at the Kurds in Syria (nominal allies of the US), often times seeming to encourage Islamic fundamentalism, etc.


[If Erdogan's schmoozing of Putin, double-dealing over Ukraine, neo-Ottoman overreaching and on-off aggression towards fellow Nato member Greece are not sufficient proof of bad faith, then consider his other war on his country's democracy. Human rights abuses aside, Erdogan has made a huge mess of Turkey's economy. Inflation is at 58%, living standards are plummeting. More than 70% of 18 to 25-year-olds say they would prefer to live elsewhere.]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/05/turkeys-two-faced-sultan-is-no-friend-of-the-west-its-time-to-play-hardball

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FLBear5630 said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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3-D chess is not necessary when Obama and Biden are running the show.

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True.

But, that doesn't mean China wasn't ready to play it. You don't see anything coordinated with unintended/unthought about down the line results? It has an asymmetry about it that looks scheduled and planned, as opposed to opportunistic and organic.

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Redbrickbear said:

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BearN said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Realitybites said:

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The whole Jewish presence in Israel for thousands of years has already been discussed previously. About 2000 years of a Jewish Kingdom there followed by about 2000 years of the Jewish presence there having been virtually extinguished and the region's name changed to Syria Palestina.

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Without doubt there were jews in the western part of the Levant between modern Lebanon and Egypt well before the the rise of the Roman Republic/Empire.

But much of what we think we know about the history there might be myth and not real history.

["Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and nobody wants to hear about it. This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom." By Ze'ev Herzog (Professor, Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures Department, Tel Aviv University)]


[In the Jewish Study Bible (2014), Oded Lip*****s states the concept of United Monarchy should be abandoned, while Aren Maeir believes there is insufficient evidence in support of the United Monarchy. In August 2015, Israeli archaeologists discovered massive fortifications in the ruins of the ancient city of Gath, supposed birthplace of Goliath. The size of the fortifications shows that Gath was a large city in the 10th century BCE, perhaps the largest in Canaan at the time. The professor leading the dig, Aren Maeir, estimated that Gath was as much as four times the size of contemporary Jerusalem, which cast doubt that David's kingdom could have been as powerful as described in the Bible]

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Now tell us about the part where the holocaust never happened either.

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If you want to imply that the Holocaust is as open a question as the Bronze Age history of the ancient Levant…that is certainly and interesting take.

If you had read the post you would notice it's all modern Israeli archaeology professors and academics doubting if there ever was a migration out of Egypt and casting doubt on the supposed regional power of the United monarchy (and if it existed at al).

One thing that can be said is that modern Israeli archaeologists are brave enough to question national mythos and question if they are in fact real.

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Redbrickbear said:

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BearN said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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BearN said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Realitybites said:

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The whole Jewish presence in Israel for thousands of years has already been discussed previously. About 2000 years of a Jewish Kingdom there followed by about 2000 years of the Jewish presence there having been virtually extinguished and the region's name changed to Syria Palestina.

---

Without doubt there were jews in the western part of the Levant between modern Lebanon and Egypt well before the the rise of the Roman Republic/Empire.

But much of what we think we know about the history there might be myth and not real history.

["Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and nobody wants to hear about it. This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom." By Ze'ev Herzog (Professor, Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures Department, Tel Aviv University)]


[In the Jewish Study Bible (2014), Oded Lip*****s states the concept of United Monarchy should be abandoned, while Aren Maeir believes there is insufficient evidence in support of the United Monarchy. In August 2015, Israeli archaeologists discovered massive fortifications in the ruins of the ancient city of Gath, supposed birthplace of Goliath. The size of the fortifications shows that Gath was a large city in the 10th century BCE, perhaps the largest in Canaan at the time. The professor leading the dig, Aren Maeir, estimated that Gath was as much as four times the size of contemporary Jerusalem, which cast doubt that David's kingdom could have been as powerful as described in the Bible]

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Now tell us about the part where the holocaust never happened either.

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If you want to imply that the Holocaust is as open a question as the Bronze Age history of the ancient Levant…that is certainly and interesting take.

If you had read the post you would notice it's all modern Israeli archaeology professors and academics doubting if there ever was a migration out of Egypt and casting doubt on the supposed regional power of the United monarchy (and if it existed at al).

One thing that can be said is that modern Israeli archaeologists are brave enough to question national mythos and question if they are in fact real.

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Yes I read the garbage research you posted. Of course they doubt it. They are liberal atheists and see everything through that lens.

There is plenty of archaeological and historical evidence that supports the Biblical Narrative and nothing has been found that has disproved it.

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What about these views are "garbage research"

And how do you know these specific Israeli archaeologists are liberal atheists?

Israel Finkelstein and others are obviously ethnically Ashkenazi Jews and Israeli but I don't see anything online about their specific political views or religious views.

I don't think they would intentionally set out to disprove a cornerstone ideological mythos of the Jewish people and their claim on the land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Finkelstein

[Finkelstein dealt with a variety of themes related to the archeology and history of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. He proposed that the first North Israelite territorial polity emerged in the Gibeon-Bethel plateau in the late Iron I and early Iron IIA. He found archaeological evidence for this in the system of fortified sites, such as Tell en-Nasbeh, Khirbet ed-Dawwara, et-Tell ("Ai") and Gibeon. Historical evidence for the existence of this polity can be found in the campaign of Pharaoh Sheshonq I in this region ... According to Finkelstein, positive memories in the Bible of the House of Saul, which originated from the North, represent this early Israelite entity. He suggested that this north Israelite polity ruled over much of the territory of the highlands, that it presented a threat to the interests of Egypt of the 22nd Dynasty in Canaan, and that it was taken over during the campaign of Sheshonq I.

Finkelstein proposed that in its early days, the Northern Kingdom (Jeroboam I and his successors) ruled over the Samaria Highlands, the western slopes of the Gilead and the area of the Jezreel Valley...

Finkelstein also reflected on biblical traditions related to the Northern Kingdom, such as the Jacob cycle in Genesis (a study carried out with Thomas Römer), the Exodus tradition, the heroic stories in the Book of Judges and remnants of royal traditions in the Books of Samuel and Kings. He suggested that these North Israelite traditions were first committed to writing in the days of Jeroboam II (first half of the 8th century BCE), that they were brought to Judah with Israelite refugees after the takeover of Israel by Assyria, and that they were later incorporated into the Judahite-dominated Bible.]

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Redbrickbear said:

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BearN said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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BearN said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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BearN said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Realitybites said:

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The whole Jewish presence in Israel for thousands of years has already been discussed previously. About 2000 years of a Jewish Kingdom there followed by about 2000 years of the Jewish presence there having been virtually extinguished and the region's name changed to Syria Palestina.

---

Without doubt there were jews in the western part of the Levant between modern Lebanon and Egypt well before the the rise of the Roman Republic/Empire.

But much of what we think we know about the history there might be myth and not real history.

["Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and nobody wants to hear about it. This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom." By Ze'ev Herzog (Professor, Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures Department, Tel Aviv University)]


[In the Jewish Study Bible (2014), Oded Lip*****s states the concept of United Monarchy should be abandoned, while Aren Maeir believes there is insufficient evidence in support of the United Monarchy. In August 2015, Israeli archaeologists discovered massive fortifications in the ruins of the ancient city of Gath, supposed birthplace of Goliath. The size of the fortifications shows that Gath was a large city in the 10th century BCE, perhaps the largest in Canaan at the time. The professor leading the dig, Aren Maeir, estimated that Gath was as much as four times the size of contemporary Jerusalem, which cast doubt that David's kingdom could have been as powerful as described in the Bible]

---

Now tell us about the part where the holocaust never happened either.

---

If you want to imply that the Holocaust is as open a question as the Bronze Age history of the ancient Levant…that is certainly and interesting take.

If you had read the post you would notice it's all modern Israeli archaeology professors and academics doubting if there ever was a migration out of Egypt and casting doubt on the supposed regional power of the United monarchy (and if it existed at al).

One thing that can be said is that modern Israeli archaeologists are brave enough to question national mythos and question if they are in fact real.

---

Yes I read the garbage research you posted. Of course they doubt it. They are liberal atheists and see everything through that lens.

There is plenty of archaeological and historical evidence that supports the Biblical Narrative and nothing has been found that has disproved it.

---

What about these views are "garbage research"

And how do you know these specific Israeli archaeologists are liberal atheists?

Israel Finkelstein and others are obviously ethnically Ashkenazi Jews and Israeli but I don't see anything online about their specific political views or religious views.

I don't think they would intentionally set out to disprove a cornerstone ideological mythos of the Jewish people and their claim on the land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Finkelstein

[Finkelstein dealt with a variety of themes related to the archeology and history of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. He proposed that the first North Israelite territorial polity emerged in the Gibeon-Bethel plateau in the late Iron I and early Iron IIA. He found archaeological evidence for this in the system of fortified sites, such as Tell en-Nasbeh, Khirbet ed-Dawwara, et-Tell ("Ai") and Gibeon. Historical evidence for the existence of this polity can be found in the campaign of Pharaoh Sheshonq I in this region ... According to Finkelstein, positive memories in the Bible of the House of Saul, which originated from the North, represent this early Israelite entity. He suggested that this north Israelite polity ruled over much of the territory of the highlands, that it presented a threat to the interests of Egypt of the 22nd Dynasty in Canaan, and that it was taken over during the campaign of Sheshonq I.

Finkelstein proposed that in its early days, the Northern Kingdom (Jeroboam I and his successors) ruled over the Samaria Highlands, the western slopes of the Gilead and the area of the Jezreel Valley...

Finkelstein also reflected on biblical traditions related to the Northern Kingdom, such as the Jacob cycle in Genesis (a study carried out with Thomas Römer), the Exodus tradition, the heroic stories in the Book of Judges and remnants of royal traditions in the Books of Samuel and Kings. He suggested that these North Israelite traditions were first committed to writing in the days of Jeroboam II (first half of the 8th century BCE), that they were brought to Judah with Israelite refugees after the takeover of Israel by Assyria, and that they were later incorporated into the Judahite-dominated Bible.]

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Fffs if you are going to claim that the very foundations of Judaism and Christianity are myth, can you at least please put this garbage in another thread so it will be easier to ignore? It's hard enough sifting through your **** posting anti-Israel / Pro Allah Murder Cult, and now you want to take it to a whole other level of whackjobery.

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I can't tell if your a troll or just dumb....

The fact that modern Israeli archeology does not believe (or at least seriously questions) the national mythos of the Jewish people/modern Israel is certainly a question for a thread about a land dispute and ethnic war between modern Israelis and Palestinians....it has nothing to do with the religious truths of Christianity.

I myself am a Baylor grad and practicing Christian.

If you can not handle a discussion of that scope...then that is your problem.

I myself think an Exodus of the ancient Hebrews from Egypt almost certainly did take place...but they remained a small tribal group surrounded by other peoples for a long time into the Iron Age.

Their wars against other peoples in the area show they were never the only people in the Levant....nor or they the only people group there today.

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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Turkey has always been the real flash point in this ongoing mess.

The real reason the US has put 2 carrier groups in the area.

Better warm up the carrier groups in Japan and get them out to sea asap.

As events are escalating rapidly.

No hyperbole: The US could be at war by the end of the week.

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We better hope that it holds off until 2024! We do not have anyone in leadership I am comfortable handling such a mess. Biden and Harris make Bush and Cheney look like Marshall and Eisenhower...

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historian said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Realitybites said:

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Meanwhile, in the country with the second largest military in NATO...

● JUST IN | During a rally in support of Palestine, Turkish President Erdoğan mentioned, 'We can come at any night unexpectedly,' and hundreds of thousands of Turkish citizens chanted, 'Turkish military to Gaza' in response pic.twitter.com/pOLBGHTNeT

— The Spot (@Spotnewsth) October 28, 2023

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Our dear friends the Turks….

It will be interesting interesting to see how neocons keep their sanity if Turkey declares war, escalation ensues, Israel hits Turkey with an airstrike, and Erdogan invokes Article 5. pic.twitter.com/tSKE5gMVik

— Laocoon of Troy (@LaocoonofTroy) October 29, 2023

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I do not think NATO members would be obligated to help Turkey in a war they declared & started, especially if they allied themselves with terrorists.

Hopefully Islamofascist Erdogan is just blowing smoke & won't actually follow through with his insane rhetoric. It's a very foolish & dangerous game he is playing.

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historian said:

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I do not think NATO members would be obligated to help Turkey in a war they declared & started, especially if they allied themselves with terrorists.

Hopefully Islamofascist Erdogan is just blowing smoke & won't actually follow through with his insane rhetoric. It's a very foolish & dangerous game he is playing.

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Redbrickbear said:

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The "Queers for Hamas" meme didn't originate from the gullible college students who are desperate for any cause to protest; it was hatched by the founding intellectuals of queer theory itself.

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) October 30, 2023

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