We see through your ruse nutball.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:I'm not making up **** because I love Jews, but you certainly are because you hate them. In fact I wasn't even defending the incident, only pointing out your factual lie.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:
They even paid compensation to the dead and injured with public apologies.
Are you a scumbag?
What the hell is wrong with you?
The rest of the pro-zionist, pro-Israel guys are intelligent to understand this attack is indefensible and dont bother trying to equivocate and excuse a mass execution of US servicemen by a foreign nation
Get help,
I am pissed off bcs its not just Palestinians. Israel can kill Americans with impunity and jackoffs like you would rather argue with me.
It was covered up you disingenuous idiot! The videos I posted had first hand testimony from some of the living survivors who described the cover-up! They said '97 is when the general public became aware of what happened!
Watching the ****ING VIDEOS!!!
I'm the sane one. I'm the one that doesnt think another country should get away Scot-free with the deliberate murder of 34 American servicemen and attempted murder of 171 more American servicemen.
Netanyahu said "we are at war,"
430,269 Views |
6535 Replies |
Last: 9 hrs ago by Sam Lowry
Scattershooting while wondering if Hams has released the hostages and sued for peace?
It wasn't a false flag operation. (the term is wildly misused).The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:well, that's blocked. I'm sure it was a harrowing experience for all involved, one they did not deserve. Same can be said about all those people on Iran Air Flight 655. All you can do in such a situation is apologize, fire the captain, start writing checks, and assess what could be done differently to prevent such from re-occuring.The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:Lighten up, Francis.The_barBEARian said:
And I am honestly sickened this post got any likes... I suggest those posters move to Israel if they care more about Israeli lives than American lives.
Listen to this before you tell anyone to lighten up.
You really don't like Jews very much, do you?
I really don't like Americans being slaughtered in a false flag operation.
Appearently you are another wise boomer who values Israeli lives over American lives.
You are so wise, but you couldn't be bother to watch any of the videos I posted and hear the first hand testimony of the USS Liberty servicemen who survived?
I've been pretty open about my position on Israel. I think they view Americans as cattle. I think AIPAC has done more election interference than Russia, China, and the rest of the world combined. I would like to cut our alliance with them and return to neutrality.
These people are not the chosen ones, God doesn't exist, and the Bible, while having a tremendous amount of literary merit, is still just a very old book.
Your hostility to religion clouds your assessments of reality.. Israel is an outpost of western civilization in a part of the world that is philosophically hostile to western civilization. Western Civilization benefits from having the Arab world distracted and divided, pursuing jihad somewhere other than the west. Nothing accomplishes that better than Israel.
Supporting Zionism is one of the wisest foreign policy choices the West has ever made.
Exactly, Putin has done nothing to gain the benefit of the doubt. Trust is a 2 way street. I could care less if Moscow trust the US, the US may not be perfect but we have a better track record than Putin.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:I'm not. NATO would never attack Russia.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not sure you do. Successfully invading NATO and successfully defending against it are two different things.sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Well, obviously, no country wants a rival next door. The question is why Putin would invade and attempt to take over a neighbor (and lose what will probably be millions of lives and a $ trillion) when it does nothing to improve your situation relative to NATO.Redbrickbear said:That itself is a strange question.sombear said:
If Putin knows he has zero chance against NATO, why do you buy into the argument that Putin invaded Ukraine over NATO? Said another way, how would invading and taking over Ukraine somehow make Putin the favorite over NATO (or even appreciably shorten the odds)?
Why would any country oppose a hostile foreign military alliance being on its borders?
China knows they have no chance against the Western alliance...yet obviously they would oppose USA troops being placed in Mongolia or Burma.
The geo-strategic imperative of Moscow is to keep Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, and Kazakhstan on its side (by sweet talk or by military action)
DC seems committed to pulling those countries out of the orbit of Moscow...by coups and proxy wars if necessary.
Why Moscow wants to prevent that is obvious....why DC cares that much is the real question.
Latin America, Central & Western Europe, East Asia, the oil rich Middle east....these are all far more important areas to American prosperity and security than Belarus or Ukraine.
It prevents NATO from putting troops in eastern Ukraine....faster striking distance into Southern Russia and Rostov-on-Don and Volgograd (old Stalingrad)....major Russian cities.
And it prevents NATO troops from ever being stationed in Crimea/Sevastopol where their Black Sea fleet is located.
So its obvious why they want a friendly government in Kyiv....one not aligned to DC
Now its a different story if it even matters much....they are so far behind the game against the USA-EU in development and military spending that they can never catch back up. But that is then a policy point...Russian leaders after Putin is dead may come to realize they are wasting money in a race they can never win.
Putin is in his 70s...he will not be around forever.
I understand that argument.
So you think Putin could defend a NATO attack?
.
Why are you contemplating a NATO invasion of Russia?
I thought NATO was a purely defensive organization that does not attack countries that have not attacked it?
Well other than Serbia and Libya….
I doubt people in Moscow trust DC and their promises anymore than average Americans do.
Who in the US trusts Russia?
Trust? Some in our government want active war with Russia and some on this very board do as well…over a country we are not even an official ally with.
There is no trust between DC and Moscow and there is unlikely to be for a long long time
lol if that is your reason for supporting Israel you are completely oblivious.
The most popular boy's name for newborns in western Europe is Muhammad. Western civilization won't exist a generation from now bcs the native populations of Europe will be replaced.
The precedent was set with Serbia that if Christian Europeans try to defend their homeland and stand up for themselves, the United States will bomb the **** out of them.
For whatever reason, perhaps bcs AIPAC money has allowed jews to become massively over-represented in congress, Israel seems to be able to play by a different set of rules. Israel is not only allowed but enabled by our government to fight back against foreign invaders and the native Palestinians.
For some reason there is a double standard - what the Serbs did was a genocide but what the Israelis are doing now is defending themselves.
The most popular boy's name for newborns in western Europe is Muhammad. Western civilization won't exist a generation from now bcs the native populations of Europe will be replaced.
The precedent was set with Serbia that if Christian Europeans try to defend their homeland and stand up for themselves, the United States will bomb the **** out of them.
For whatever reason, perhaps bcs AIPAC money has allowed jews to become massively over-represented in congress, Israel seems to be able to play by a different set of rules. Israel is not only allowed but enabled by our government to fight back against foreign invaders and the native Palestinians.
For some reason there is a double standard - what the Serbs did was a genocide but what the Israelis are doing now is defending themselves.
that's quite a jumbled mess of cause & effect errors.The_barBEARian said:
lol if that is your reason for supporting Israel you are completely oblivious.
The most popular boy's name for newborns in western Europe is Muhammad. Western civilization won't exist a generation from now bcs the native populations of Europe will be replaced.
The precedent was set with Serbia that if Christian Europeans try to defend their homeland and stand up for themselves, the United States will bomb the **** out of them.
For whatever reason, perhaps bcs AIPAC money has allowed jews to become massively over-represented in congress, Israel seems to be able to play by a different set of rules. Israel is not only allowed but enabled by our government to fight back against foreign invaders and the native Palestinians.
For some reason there is a double standard - what the Serbs did was a genocide but what the Israelis are doing now is defending themselves.
AIPAC got nothing to do with European immigration policies.
whiterock said:that's quite a jumbled mess of cause & effect errors.The_barBEARian said:
lol if that is your reason for supporting Israel you are completely oblivious.
The most popular boy's name for newborns in western Europe is Muhammad. Western civilization won't exist a generation from now bcs the native populations of Europe will be replaced.
The precedent was set with Serbia that if Christian Europeans try to defend their homeland and stand up for themselves, the United States will bomb the **** out of them.
For whatever reason, perhaps bcs AIPAC money has allowed jews to become massively over-represented in congress, Israel seems to be able to play by a different set of rules. Israel is not only allowed but enabled by our government to fight back against foreign invaders and the native Palestinians.
For some reason there is a double standard - what the Serbs did was a genocide but what the Israelis are doing now is defending themselves.
AIPAC got nothing to do with European immigration policies.
It's much less jumbled than your post that supporting Israel is good for "western civilization" when the evidence is clear that it hasnt been.
I would add that there has been a tremendous transfer of wealth from "western civilization" to the arab world in foreign aid so that Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the gulf states are bribed to be good neighbors with Israel.
whiterock said:Israel is an outpost of western civilization in a part of the world that is philosophically hostile to western civilization.The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:well, that's blocked. I'm sure it was a harrowing experience for all involved, one they did not deserve. Same can be said about all those people on Iran Air Flight 655. All you can do in such a situation is apologize, fire the captain, start writing checks, and assess what could be done differently to prevent such from re-occuring.The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:Lighten up, Francis.The_barBEARian said:
And I am honestly sickened this post got any likes... I suggest those posters move to Israel if they care more about Israeli lives than American lives.
Listen to this before you tell anyone to lighten up.
You really don't like Jews very much, do you?
I really don't like Americans being slaughtered in a false flag operation.
Appearently you are another wise boomer who values Israeli lives over American lives.
You are so wise, but you couldn't be bother to watch any of the videos I posted and hear the first hand testimony of the USS Liberty servicemen who survived?
I've been pretty open about my position on Israel. I think they view Americans as cattle. I think AIPAC has done more election interference than Russia, China, and the rest of the world combined. I would like to cut our alliance with them and return to neutrality.
These people are not the chosen ones, God doesn't exist, and the Bible, while having a tremendous amount of literary merit, is still just a very old book.
Awkward....
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/terra-incognita-israel-is-not-a-western-country-and-never-has-been-490048
[The demographic in Israel that sees the country as closely linked to Europe and frets over it becoming less "Western" and less European tend to be the same demographic that speaks of "returning" to Europe. What they have never internalized, and what many commentators on Israel abroad have never understood, is that Israel is not a Western country. It is not a European country.]
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290484345_Is_Israel_Western
[Although Israel, as a culture, a society and a state, is not solidly Western but has also significant non-Western components]
FLBear5630 said:Exactly, Putin has done nothing to gain the benefit of the doubt. Trust is a 2 way street. I could care less if Moscow trust the US, the US may not be perfect but we have a better track record than Putin.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:I'm not. NATO would never attack Russia.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not sure you do. Successfully invading NATO and successfully defending against it are two different things.sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Well, obviously, no country wants a rival next door. The question is why Putin would invade and attempt to take over a neighbor (and lose what will probably be millions of lives and a $ trillion) when it does nothing to improve your situation relative to NATO.Redbrickbear said:That itself is a strange question.sombear said:
If Putin knows he has zero chance against NATO, why do you buy into the argument that Putin invaded Ukraine over NATO? Said another way, how would invading and taking over Ukraine somehow make Putin the favorite over NATO (or even appreciably shorten the odds)?
Why would any country oppose a hostile foreign military alliance being on its borders?
China knows they have no chance against the Western alliance...yet obviously they would oppose USA troops being placed in Mongolia or Burma.
The geo-strategic imperative of Moscow is to keep Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, and Kazakhstan on its side (by sweet talk or by military action)
DC seems committed to pulling those countries out of the orbit of Moscow...by coups and proxy wars if necessary.
Why Moscow wants to prevent that is obvious....why DC cares that much is the real question.
Latin America, Central & Western Europe, East Asia, the oil rich Middle east....these are all far more important areas to American prosperity and security than Belarus or Ukraine.
It prevents NATO from putting troops in eastern Ukraine....faster striking distance into Southern Russia and Rostov-on-Don and Volgograd (old Stalingrad)....major Russian cities.
And it prevents NATO troops from ever being stationed in Crimea/Sevastopol where their Black Sea fleet is located.
So its obvious why they want a friendly government in Kyiv....one not aligned to DC
Now its a different story if it even matters much....they are so far behind the game against the USA-EU in development and military spending that they can never catch back up. But that is then a policy point...Russian leaders after Putin is dead may come to realize they are wasting money in a race they can never win.
Putin is in his 70s...he will not be around forever.
I understand that argument.
So you think Putin could defend a NATO attack?
.
Why are you contemplating a NATO invasion of Russia?
I thought NATO was a purely defensive organization that does not attack countries that have not attacked it?
Well other than Serbia and Libya….
I doubt people in Moscow trust DC and their promises anymore than average Americans do.
Who in the US trusts Russia?
Trust? Some in our government want active war with Russia and some on this very board do as well…over a country we are not even an official ally with.
There is no trust between DC and Moscow and there is unlikely to be for a long long time
The U.S. as a nation might have a better track record but not Biden. We can usually trust Putin to do what he thinks is in Russia's best interest, even if misdefined. We cannot honestly say that about Biden. Arguably, Biden has done just the opposite.
Point taken.historian said:FLBear5630 said:Exactly, Putin has done nothing to gain the benefit of the doubt. Trust is a 2 way street. I could care less if Moscow trust the US, the US may not be perfect but we have a better track record than Putin.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:I'm not. NATO would never attack Russia.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not sure you do. Successfully invading NATO and successfully defending against it are two different things.sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Well, obviously, no country wants a rival next door. The question is why Putin would invade and attempt to take over a neighbor (and lose what will probably be millions of lives and a $ trillion) when it does nothing to improve your situation relative to NATO.Redbrickbear said:That itself is a strange question.sombear said:
If Putin knows he has zero chance against NATO, why do you buy into the argument that Putin invaded Ukraine over NATO? Said another way, how would invading and taking over Ukraine somehow make Putin the favorite over NATO (or even appreciably shorten the odds)?
Why would any country oppose a hostile foreign military alliance being on its borders?
China knows they have no chance against the Western alliance...yet obviously they would oppose USA troops being placed in Mongolia or Burma.
The geo-strategic imperative of Moscow is to keep Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, and Kazakhstan on its side (by sweet talk or by military action)
DC seems committed to pulling those countries out of the orbit of Moscow...by coups and proxy wars if necessary.
Why Moscow wants to prevent that is obvious....why DC cares that much is the real question.
Latin America, Central & Western Europe, East Asia, the oil rich Middle east....these are all far more important areas to American prosperity and security than Belarus or Ukraine.
It prevents NATO from putting troops in eastern Ukraine....faster striking distance into Southern Russia and Rostov-on-Don and Volgograd (old Stalingrad)....major Russian cities.
And it prevents NATO troops from ever being stationed in Crimea/Sevastopol where their Black Sea fleet is located.
So its obvious why they want a friendly government in Kyiv....one not aligned to DC
Now its a different story if it even matters much....they are so far behind the game against the USA-EU in development and military spending that they can never catch back up. But that is then a policy point...Russian leaders after Putin is dead may come to realize they are wasting money in a race they can never win.
Putin is in his 70s...he will not be around forever.
I understand that argument.
So you think Putin could defend a NATO attack?
.
Why are you contemplating a NATO invasion of Russia?
I thought NATO was a purely defensive organization that does not attack countries that have not attacked it?
Well other than Serbia and Libya….
I doubt people in Moscow trust DC and their promises anymore than average Americans do.
Who in the US trusts Russia?
Trust? Some in our government want active war with Russia and some on this very board do as well…over a country we are not even an official ally with.
There is no trust between DC and Moscow and there is unlikely to be for a long long time
The U.S. as a marooning might have a better track record but not Biden. We can usually trust Putin to do what he thinks is in Russia's best interest, even if misdefined. We cannot honestly say that about Biden. Arguably, Biden has done just the opposite.
A Houthi-run court in Yemen has just sentenced 13 people to public execution on homosexuality charges.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) February 7, 2024
The biggest transfer of wealth to those places by a factor of 100 has been you (collective) filling up your car.The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:that's quite a jumbled mess of cause & effect errors.The_barBEARian said:
lol if that is your reason for supporting Israel you are completely oblivious.
The most popular boy's name for newborns in western Europe is Muhammad. Western civilization won't exist a generation from now bcs the native populations of Europe will be replaced.
The precedent was set with Serbia that if Christian Europeans try to defend their homeland and stand up for themselves, the United States will bomb the **** out of them.
For whatever reason, perhaps bcs AIPAC money has allowed jews to become massively over-represented in congress, Israel seems to be able to play by a different set of rules. Israel is not only allowed but enabled by our government to fight back against foreign invaders and the native Palestinians.
For some reason there is a double standard - what the Serbs did was a genocide but what the Israelis are doing now is defending themselves.
AIPAC got nothing to do with European immigration policies.
It's much less jumbled than your post that supporting Israel is good for "western civilization" when the evidence is clear that it hasnt been.
I would add that there has been a tremendous transfer of wealth from "western civilization" to the arab world in foreign aid so that Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the gulf states are bribed to be good neighbors with Israel.
Sometimes I hate autocorrect or autocomplete! One of these days maybe I will to proofread these things. Original corrected.
No surprise for a nation with any degree of Sharia law. There are probably a dozen other Muslim countries who do the same thing all the time. Our western press usually don't report this because they tend to think it's more important to stay connected to the Islamofascists. They think they have more in common than differences. They may be in for a rude awakening some day. Someone might have a better explanation but I doubt it.
That's precision - here's the difference.
— Jim Hendren (@JimHendren1) February 8, 2024
- Russian air strike "maybe we'll hit the right city this time 🤷"
- US air strike "front seat or back?" https://t.co/BcvYbb42Xh
boognish_bear said:A Houthi-run court in Yemen has just sentenced 13 people to public execution on homosexuality charges.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) February 7, 2024
Meanwhile, a court in Montana has seized the child of a couple, turned the child over to the state's CPS, sent the child to Wyoming and on to Canada for gender transition. The state's "republican" governor is defending his state bureaucracy saying they acted appropriately and a judge that imposed a gag order is going to have the couple arrested and sent to prison for speaking out.
Sounds to me like normal Americans have more to fear from American courts than Houthi courts (unless you're a Bud Light drinker).
One strange case doesn't make the whole system the equivalent of Houthi run justice. But, keep calling out every anomaly as if it were the norm. Suits the narrative better.Realitybites said:boognish_bear said:A Houthi-run court in Yemen has just sentenced 13 people to public execution on homosexuality charges.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) February 7, 2024
Meanwhile, a court in Montana has seized the child of a couple, turned the child over to the state's CPS, sent the child to Wyoming and on to Canada for gender transition. The state's "republican" governor is defending his state bureaucracy saying they acted appropriately and a judge that imposed a gag order is going to have the couple arrested and sent to prison for speaking out.
Sounds to me like normal Americans have more to fear from American courts than Houthi courts (unless you're a Bud Light drinker).
There are plenty of such cases (one in Texas), a whole slew of custody related cases with financial conflicts of interest in Missouri. The Third Reich and USSR had courts, too.
see. you acknowledge the wisdom of supporting Israel without even realizing it.The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:that's quite a jumbled mess of cause & effect errors.The_barBEARian said:
lol if that is your reason for supporting Israel you are completely oblivious.
The most popular boy's name for newborns in western Europe is Muhammad. Western civilization won't exist a generation from now bcs the native populations of Europe will be replaced.
The precedent was set with Serbia that if Christian Europeans try to defend their homeland and stand up for themselves, the United States will bomb the **** out of them.
For whatever reason, perhaps bcs AIPAC money has allowed jews to become massively over-represented in congress, Israel seems to be able to play by a different set of rules. Israel is not only allowed but enabled by our government to fight back against foreign invaders and the native Palestinians.
For some reason there is a double standard - what the Serbs did was a genocide but what the Israelis are doing now is defending themselves.
AIPAC got nothing to do with European immigration policies.
It's much less jumbled than your post that supporting Israel is good for "western civilization" when the evidence is clear that it hasnt been.
I would add that there has been a tremendous transfer of wealth from "western civilization" to the arab world in foreign aid so that Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the gulf states are bribed to be good neighbors with Israel.
And after I point that out, you probably still won't understand it.
that last sentence illustrates the untenableness of the premise. Just because Israel has some non-western features, does not mean it is not a part of Western Civ.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:Israel is an outpost of western civilization in a part of the world that is philosophically hostile to western civilization.The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:well, that's blocked. I'm sure it was a harrowing experience for all involved, one they did not deserve. Same can be said about all those people on Iran Air Flight 655. All you can do in such a situation is apologize, fire the captain, start writing checks, and assess what could be done differently to prevent such from re-occuring.The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:Lighten up, Francis.The_barBEARian said:
And I am honestly sickened this post got any likes... I suggest those posters move to Israel if they care more about Israeli lives than American lives.
Listen to this before you tell anyone to lighten up.
You really don't like Jews very much, do you?
I really don't like Americans being slaughtered in a false flag operation.
Appearently you are another wise boomer who values Israeli lives over American lives.
You are so wise, but you couldn't be bother to watch any of the videos I posted and hear the first hand testimony of the USS Liberty servicemen who survived?
I've been pretty open about my position on Israel. I think they view Americans as cattle. I think AIPAC has done more election interference than Russia, China, and the rest of the world combined. I would like to cut our alliance with them and return to neutrality.
These people are not the chosen ones, God doesn't exist, and the Bible, while having a tremendous amount of literary merit, is still just a very old book.
Awkward....
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/terra-incognita-israel-is-not-a-western-country-and-never-has-been-490048
[The demographic in Israel that sees the country as closely linked to Europe and frets over it becoming less "Western" and less European tend to be the same demographic that speaks of "returning" to Europe. What they have never internalized, and what many commentators on Israel abroad have never understood, is that Israel is not a Western country. It is not a European country.]
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290484345_Is_Israel_Western
[Although Israel, as a culture, a society and a state, is not solidly Western but has also significant non-Western components]
When we talk about "Western Civilization," what we are really talking about are societies built on "Judeo-Christian values." Israel shares with Western Civ far more than just a parliamentary form of government. It shares with us almost every premise of how to structure a civilization. All we really disagree upon is whether or not Jesus is the Messiah. Pretty much everything else is built upon foundations stretching back to Genesis.
The opposite is true of islamic society. Western Civ and islamic civ are oil & water, fire & ice, matter & anti-matter. Each is purpose built to destroy one another.
Western civilization wasn't built around the Bible.
It was built around the Greek philosophers and scientists. Greece was the birthplace of western civilization, not Israel.
I think Islam and the Arab world is as big a threat to our way of life as you do. Unfortunately our imbecilic leaders want to go to war with Russia and Serbia when they should be our shared allies against a common enemy.
I believe the post-soviet, Russian speaking world would be a much better ally to us than Israel ever was.
It was built around the Greek philosophers and scientists. Greece was the birthplace of western civilization, not Israel.
I think Islam and the Arab world is as big a threat to our way of life as you do. Unfortunately our imbecilic leaders want to go to war with Russia and Serbia when they should be our shared allies against a common enemy.
I believe the post-soviet, Russian speaking world would be a much better ally to us than Israel ever was.
FLBear5630 said:One strange case doesn't make the whole system the equivalent of Houthi run justice. But, keep calling out every anomaly as if it were the norm. Suits the narrative better.Realitybites said:boognish_bear said:A Houthi-run court in Yemen has just sentenced 13 people to public execution on homosexuality charges.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) February 7, 2024
Meanwhile, a court in Montana has seized the child of a couple, turned the child over to the state's CPS, sent the child to Wyoming and on to Canada for gender transition. The state's "republican" governor is defending his state bureaucracy saying they acted appropriately and a judge that imposed a gag order is going to have the couple arrested and sent to prison for speaking out.
Sounds to me like normal Americans have more to fear from American courts than Houthi courts (unless you're a Bud Light drinker).
It's an extreme example but it's not like this has not happened before and there are no politicians who want to put parents in jail for trying to protect their kids. Several have said so and you know there are others who won't say it.
Western Civilization is built on Judeo-Christian philosophical values about the rights & wrongs of social contract, of which the list of examples is quite long. I mean, what European war was fought over Plato vs Socrates? Athens vs. Sparta?The_barBEARian said:
Western civilization wasn't built around the Bible.
It was built around the Greek philosophers and scientists. Greece was the birthplace of western civilization, not Israel.
I think Islam and the Arab world is as big a threat to our way of life as you do. Unfortunately our imbecilic leaders want to go to war with Russia and Serbia when they should be our shared allies against a common enemy.
I believe the post-soviet, Russian speaking world would be a much better ally to us than Israel ever was.
When islamic armies besiege the next Vienna, I have no doubt Russia and Serbia will be there to help. Perhaps the next Sobieski will even speak Russian as his native tongue. In the meantime, the Russians hold some very old and quite nakedly revanchist geopolitical notions that are at odds with modern constructions. And THEY invaded a neighbor to take what they thought they were entitled to, not us.
Russia should, indeed, be more worried about its neighbors to its south and west. That they irrationally chose to attack westwards only proves the point I've been making about the costs of ignoring reality - powers make bad decisions, and dealing with the consequences are frightfully expensive, win or lose. Best course of action is to respond quickly and forcefully, to send Pavlovian lessons that will shape future decision-making in a more productive direction.
This may sound odd, but not everyone's policy is controlled by Pavlovian responses.whiterock said:Western Civilization is built on Judeo-Christian philosophical values about the rights & wrongs of social contract, of which the list of examples is quite long. I mean, what European war was fought over Plato vs Socrates? Athens vs. Sparta?The_barBEARian said:
Western civilization wasn't built around the Bible.
It was built around the Greek philosophers and scientists. Greece was the birthplace of western civilization, not Israel.
I think Islam and the Arab world is as big a threat to our way of life as you do. Unfortunately our imbecilic leaders want to go to war with Russia and Serbia when they should be our shared allies against a common enemy.
I believe the post-soviet, Russian speaking world would be a much better ally to us than Israel ever was.
When islamic armies besiege the next Vienna, I have no doubt Russia and Serbia will be there to help. Perhaps the next Sobieski will even speak Russian as his native tongue. In the meantime, the Russians hold some very old and quite nakedly revanchist geopolitical notions that are at odds with modern constructions. And THEY invaded a neighbor to take what they thought they were entitled to, not us.
Russia should, indeed, be more worried about its neighbors to its south and west. That they irrationally chose to attack westwards only proves the point I've been making about the costs of ignoring reality - powers make bad decisions, and dealing with the consequences are frightfully expensive, win or lose. Best course of action is to respond quickly and forcefully, to send Pavlovian lessons that will shape future decision-making in a more productive direction.
Curious questions: "what European war was fought over Plato vs Socrates? Athens vs. Sparta?" For decades, scholars have compared the Cold War to the Athens vs Sparta Peloponnesian War. I think I learned that at Baylor in the 1980s.
No. But some are or can be pushed in that direction. Arguably, that's what Pres Trump did to frighten the Norks into behaving themselves.
just another day of Israel defending themselves against *checks notes* unarmed civilians including a 6 year old child and Paramedics sent to try and rescue said Child with supposed coordination with the Israeli military
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68261286
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68261286
I'm the English Guy
The_barBEARian said:
Western civilization wasn't built around the Bible.
It was built around the Greek philosophers and scientists. Greece was the birthplace of western civilization, not Israel.
I think Islam and the Arab world is as big a threat to our way of life as you do...
[Sp*****r recognized at least eight high cultures: Babylonian, Egyptian, Chinese, Indian, Mesoamerican (Mayan/Aztec), Classical (Greek/Roman, "Apollonian"), the non-Babylonian Middle East ("Magian"), and Western ("Faustian"). Sp*****r combined a number of groups under the "Magian" label; "Semitic", Arabian, Persian, and the Abrahamic religions in general as originating from them (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). Similarly, he combined various Mediterranean cultures of antiquity including both Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome as "Apollonian", and modern Westerners as "Faustian". ]
Yeah, a dog can get numbed to electric collar stimulation. Particularly a tough one. Find one that barks the batteries out of a bark collar., and very often, they become immune to levels of training stimulation that would crumple the average dog. But the vast majority of dogs submit to the collar so thoroughly all you have to do is put the collar on them and they become uber compliant.Sam Lowry said:This may sound odd, but not everyone's policy is controlled by Pavlovian responses.whiterock said:Western Civilization is built on Judeo-Christian philosophical values about the rights & wrongs of social contract, of which the list of examples is quite long. I mean, what European war was fought over Plato vs Socrates? Athens vs. Sparta?The_barBEARian said:
Western civilization wasn't built around the Bible.
It was built around the Greek philosophers and scientists. Greece was the birthplace of western civilization, not Israel.
I think Islam and the Arab world is as big a threat to our way of life as you do. Unfortunately our imbecilic leaders want to go to war with Russia and Serbia when they should be our shared allies against a common enemy.
I believe the post-soviet, Russian speaking world would be a much better ally to us than Israel ever was.
When islamic armies besiege the next Vienna, I have no doubt Russia and Serbia will be there to help. Perhaps the next Sobieski will even speak Russian as his native tongue. In the meantime, the Russians hold some very old and quite nakedly revanchist geopolitical notions that are at odds with modern constructions. And THEY invaded a neighbor to take what they thought they were entitled to, not us.
Russia should, indeed, be more worried about its neighbors to its south and west. That they irrationally chose to attack westwards only proves the point I've been making about the costs of ignoring reality - powers make bad decisions, and dealing with the consequences are frightfully expensive, win or lose. Best course of action is to respond quickly and forcefully, to send Pavlovian lessons that will shape future decision-making in a more productive direction.
MOST nations bombed back to the stone age will remember it for a good long while, and calibrate their actions to avoid it.
Flat awful, obviously. Stories like this are endless during war. War is hell.cms186 said:
just another day of Israel defending themselves against *checks notes* unarmed civilians including a 6 year old child and Paramedics sent to try and rescue said Child with supposed coordination with the Israeli military
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68261286
If this article is accurate, I hope whoever did it is convicted of a war crime.
Hamas started this.
Hamas committed over 1000 war crimes against innocent civilians, including children.
Strong majorities of Gazans support what Hamas did in October.
Hamas could end this anytime by returning hostages.
Hamas uses ambulances, children, women, hospitals, schools, UN offices, and mosques as shields and feigns.
Quote:
MOST nations bombed back to the stone age will remember it for a good long while, and calibrate their actions to avoid it.
...and there are those countries, like Afghanistan, that never left the stone age, where "back to the stone age" has no meaning.
Did you forget you were talking about Russia, or do you really thinking bombing them back to the Stone Age is a good plan?whiterock said:Yeah, a dog can get numbed to electric collar stimulation. Particularly a tough one. Find one that barks the batteries out of a bark collar., and very often, they become immune to levels of training stimulation that would crumple the average dog. But the vast majority of dogs submit to the collar so thoroughly all you have to do is put the collar on them and they become uber compliant.Sam Lowry said:This may sound odd, but not everyone's policy is controlled by Pavlovian responses.whiterock said:Western Civilization is built on Judeo-Christian philosophical values about the rights & wrongs of social contract, of which the list of examples is quite long. I mean, what European war was fought over Plato vs Socrates? Athens vs. Sparta?The_barBEARian said:
Western civilization wasn't built around the Bible.
It was built around the Greek philosophers and scientists. Greece was the birthplace of western civilization, not Israel.
I think Islam and the Arab world is as big a threat to our way of life as you do. Unfortunately our imbecilic leaders want to go to war with Russia and Serbia when they should be our shared allies against a common enemy.
I believe the post-soviet, Russian speaking world would be a much better ally to us than Israel ever was.
When islamic armies besiege the next Vienna, I have no doubt Russia and Serbia will be there to help. Perhaps the next Sobieski will even speak Russian as his native tongue. In the meantime, the Russians hold some very old and quite nakedly revanchist geopolitical notions that are at odds with modern constructions. And THEY invaded a neighbor to take what they thought they were entitled to, not us.
Russia should, indeed, be more worried about its neighbors to its south and west. That they irrationally chose to attack westwards only proves the point I've been making about the costs of ignoring reality - powers make bad decisions, and dealing with the consequences are frightfully expensive, win or lose. Best course of action is to respond quickly and forcefully, to send Pavlovian lessons that will shape future decision-making in a more productive direction.
MOST nations bombed back to the stone age will remember it for a good long while, and calibrate their actions to avoid it.
"He started it" is the kind of thing a child says when fighting with their sibling. Of course Israel should (and always does) defend itself, but this is going way beyond that.sombear said:Flat awful, obviously. Stories like this are endless during war. War is hell.cms186 said:
just another day of Israel defending themselves against *checks notes* unarmed civilians including a 6 year old child and Paramedics sent to try and rescue said Child with supposed coordination with the Israeli military
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68261286
If this article is accurate, I hope whoever did it is convicted of a war crime.
Hamas started this.
Hamas committed over 1000 war crimes against innocent civilians, including children.
Strong majorities of Gazans support what Hamas did in October.
Hamas could end this anytime by returning hostages.
Hamas uses ambulances, children, women, hospitals, schools, UN offices, and mosques as shields and feigns.
Nobody (at least no one rational) is trying to justify what Hamas did, it was awful beyond words, what Israel is doing is far, far worse. there is no way of knowing for certain, but many international aid charities have put a rough estimate at the amount of Palestinian Children killed in this "war" at over 10'000 and that's not even including the amount of innocent Civilian adults.
Yes, many of them probably voted for Hamas and many probably support Hamas's actions, that doesn't mean they deserve to die, fortunately I don't have first hand experience but I imagine that life for an average Palestinian in Gaza (before this war) is pretty **** and Hamas is probably one of the few entities that fights (or at least professes to fight, in reality it seems they have little regard for the life of the average Palestinian) for their interests.
I'm the English Guy
I'd say posting one anecdote during a war is childish, but I don't take these discussions personally.cms186 said:"He started it" is the kind of thing a child says when fighting with their sibling. Of course Israel should (and always does) defend itself, but this is going way beyond that.sombear said:Flat awful, obviously. Stories like this are endless during war. War is hell.cms186 said:
just another day of Israel defending themselves against *checks notes* unarmed civilians including a 6 year old child and Paramedics sent to try and rescue said Child with supposed coordination with the Israeli military
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68261286
If this article is accurate, I hope whoever did it is convicted of a war crime.
Hamas started this.
Hamas committed over 1000 war crimes against innocent civilians, including children.
Strong majorities of Gazans support what Hamas did in October.
Hamas could end this anytime by returning hostages.
Hamas uses ambulances, children, women, hospitals, schools, UN offices, and mosques as shields and feigns.
Nobody (at least no one rational) is trying to justify what Hamas did, it was awful beyond words, what Israel is doing is far, far worse. there is no way of knowing for certain, but many international aid charities have put a rough estimate at the amount of Palestinian Children killed in this "war" at over 10'000 and that's not even including the amount of innocent Civilian adults.
Yes, many of them probably voted for Hamas and many probably support Hamas's actions, that doesn't mean they deserve to die, fortunately I don't have first hand experience but I imagine that life for an average Palestinian in Gaza (before this war) is pretty **** and Hamas is probably one of the few entities that fights (or at least professes to fight, in reality it seems they have little regard for the life of the average Palestinian) for their interests.
More importantly, I did not just argue "they started it." They started it. They could end it literally anytime. They commit constant war crimes by using all the shields and feigns I mentioned. They are an elected organization. They proudly and openly call for the destruction of Israel. They planned all of this while pretending to work with Israel.
I do not believe what Israel is doing is worse. They cannot defend themselves without defeating Hamas, and, absent Hamas surrendering - which they are too cowardly to do - the only way to defeat Hamas is to go after them where they are. And unfortunately, where the cowards are - intentionally so - is with and by innocents.
Who said ANYONE deserves to die? They don't. But deaths happen in war. Hamas knew that. In fact, they attacked Israel precisely because they knew how Israel would respond, and they hoped that would undermine Israel's relationships with other Arab countries.
Research game theory.
Player 1 starts
Player 2 goes further
Player 1 retaliates and goes further
Player 2 retaliates and goes further still
On the outside it makes no sense especially when you're watching the players destroy each other. From the inside retaliation makes perfect sense.
It's why, in War Games, the computer eventually determines the only outcome is to not play the game.
Player 1 starts
Player 2 goes further
Player 1 retaliates and goes further
Player 2 retaliates and goes further still
On the outside it makes no sense especially when you're watching the players destroy each other. From the inside retaliation makes perfect sense.
It's why, in War Games, the computer eventually determines the only outcome is to not play the game.