FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

I am not saying that is incorrect as I would have no way of knowing; however, globally Jews seem to be on the very low end of the hate crime commission stats ... unless the global Jewish conspiracy suppresses all those stories ... whereas there is not really anywhere on Earth where Muslims peacefully coexist with anyone.

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

There is an element of Stockholm Syndrome. What do the more violent Islamists say they will do to the Jews on Saturday and then the Christians on Sunday?

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

That is not quite true. Maybe then the local Muslims, certainly.

When the libertarian learned that politics is tribal. https://t.co/I2oz12MBJI

— Blair Nathan (@Blair_A_Nathan) November 6, 2023

This situation wasn’t anticipated by the Founders. https://t.co/XCdBf5YP9t

— Battle Beagle (@HarmlessYardDog) November 6, 2023

On November 5, 2023, an Ohio-class submarine arrived in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility. pic.twitter.com/iDgUFp4enp

— U.S. Central Command (@CENTCOM) November 5, 2023

Bear8084 said:

---

On November 5, 2023, an Ohio-class submarine arrived in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility. pic.twitter.com/iDgUFp4enp

— U.S. Central Command (@CENTCOM) November 5, 2023

---

Those are the largest subs we have…. and packing lots of firepower.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

I am not saying that is incorrect as I would have no way of knowing; however, globally Jews seem to be on the very low end of the hate crime commission stats ... unless the global Jewish conspiracy suppresses all those stories ... whereas there is not really anywhere on Earth where Muslims peacefully coexist with anyone.

---

There is more to this guy's comments.

He later told me that he considered Hamas to be devils; but that the Jews were bigger devils.

That the Jews have now threatened to bomb Bethlehem.

Also claimed the Jews have publically stated that after they wipe out the Gaza Strip they are going to destroy the Christian Holy Sities throughout Israel and the West Bank.


For the record I am not saying this guy is right about any of this.

Simply an interesting take from a Christian who has lived in Bethlehem for the last 37 years.

I think we try to make a complex situation simple by picking a side. Both sides have done horribly wrong things. I personally think that the hatred that each group has towards each other will prevent them from ever finding peace short of one group annihilating the other.

Hamas is an evil organization. You can't justify the targeted killing of children. Israel has done plenty of evil things also. They made Palestinians second class citizens when the country was established. They literally forced them out of their homes. It is like what the US did to Native Americans. We forced many of them out and then we started taking away the land we gave them.

If Mexico took over Texas, and then forced you off your land how would you act? Would it be open season on Mexican soldiers and reservists?

There is no right or wrong side. It is all a bunch of wrong. The Gaza Strip is just a little larger than the city of Waco with over 2 million people living in it. I pray for the safety of the innocent people caught in the crossfire. I pray for those that Hamas took hostage. I pray for peace. I don't pray for the success of Israel or Hamas. As far as I am concerned, both are instruments of evil.

US Navy announces the Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group has officially transited the Suez Canal and arrived in the Middle East

So that's two huge battle groups now in vicinity of a combat zone with virtually no public deliberation or debate

Some things truly never change, do they pic.twitter.com/tfjuTagwM4

— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) November 5, 2023

KaiBear said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

As far as I am concerned, both are instruments of evil.

---

IMO this is a lazy approach to a complicated problem.


Israel has possessed the military power to destroy those in the Gaza strip for many years. Yet have always refraimed from doing so.

In the reverse situation does anyone believe the Muslims would have shown the same restraint regarding the Jews ?

Yes the Gaza Strip is a hell hole. But why haven't the oil rich Muslims countries provided them santuary in all these years ?

---

So if the oppressor that started this whole situation shows restraint they are benevolent. Before the UN setup the State of Israel, Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived pretty much peacefully in this land.

Gaza is a hell hole, and Hamas is unquestionably evil. To think that Israel is good just because they haven't done something that Hamas would do is a low measuring point. I have two uncles that were both alcoholics. They beat and cheated on my aunts. Does it necessarily make me a good husband because I don't do that if I had the power to do it?

The Palestinian/Israeli conflict is not just a Jewish/Muslim conflict. I have a conservative Christian friend that is a Palestinian Christian. He supports Palestine. His grandmother is a Palestinian Christian that lives in the capital of the West Bank, Ramallah. The mayor of Ramallah is a Christian. Gaza has very few Christians in it now, but there are plenty of Palestinian Christians that do not support Israel.

None of your post addresses my points. But you already know this. There is no comparison to the two cultures involved . Faults and all Israel is by far the most compassionate, the most progressive, the most democratic.

The land in question has changed possession repeatedly over the centuries. By force of arms.

Israel currently possesses the land by the same way they will eventually lose it.

By force of arms.

When the Muslims win they will massacre the majority of Jews remaining in the exact same manner they have done to others throughout their history.

And the world won't give a damn, except possibly to offer a few platitudes. As the slaughter of Jews has happened many times throughout history and much of the western world applauded.



So the Jews have little choice but to fight it out this time round. Hoping to give themselves maybe another 50 years of relative peace.

Knowing full well what happens the day they lose.

RightRevBear said:

---

I think we try to make a complex situation simple by picking a side. Both sides have done horribly wrong things. I personally think that the hatred that each group has towards each other will prevent them from ever finding peace short of one group annihilating the other.

---

You are probably right about that. All we can do as a nation is not get involved in such millennia old family feuds.

Quote:

---

If Mexico took over Texas...

---

If...??

KaiBear said:

---

None of your post addresses my points. But you already know this. There is no comparison to the two cultures involved . Faults and all Israel is by far the most compassionate, the most progressive, the most democratic.

The land in question has changed possession repeatedly over the centuries. By force of arms.

Israel currently possesses the land by the same way they will eventually lose it.

By force of arms.

When the Muslims win they will massacre the majority of Jews remaining in the exact same manner they have done to others throughout their history.

And the world won't give a damn, except possibly to offer a few platitudes. As the slaughter of Jews has happened many times throughout history and much of the western world applauded.



So the Jews have little choice but to fight it out this time round. Hoping to give themselves maybe another 50 years of relative peace.

Knowing full well what happens the day they lose.

---

Kai is correct. The far right Israeli Govt has empowered the far right Israelis and harassment of Christian sites of at its worst. It is Israeli citizens that are doing it, but the Govt is not stepping in to protect Christians.

On a positive note, the one thing making a difference is American Jews supporting Israel, they are go or open worship and the Israeli Govt listens to them during to money.

Far right is a problem, just as much as far left, in my opinion. Fanatics cause issues whether they are Jew, Moslem, Progressive, MAGA, Communist, etc...


https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/holy-land-christians-say-attacks-rising-in-far-right-israel-1.6354248

KaiBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

I am not saying that is incorrect as I would have no way of knowing; however, globally Jews seem to be on the very low end of the hate crime commission stats ... unless the global Jewish conspiracy suppresses all those stories ... whereas there is not really anywhere on Earth where Muslims peacefully coexist with anyone.

---

There is more to this guy's comments.

He later told me that he considered Hamas to be devils; but that the Jews were bigger devils.

That the Jews have now threatened to bomb Bethlehem.

Also claimed the Jews have publically stated that after they wipe out the Gaza Strip they are going to destroy the Christian Holy Sities throughout Israel and the West Bank.


For the record I am not saying this guy is right about any of this.

Simply an interesting take from a Christian who has lived in Bethlehem for the last 37 years.

---

There are videos on the internet of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims in Israel. They have attacked the Christian caretakers of Jacob's well multiple times, killing one in 1979.

The concept of Judeo-Christian religious unity is a myth.

Realitybites said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

I am not saying that is incorrect as I would have no way of knowing; however, globally Jews seem to be on the very low end of the hate crime commission stats ... unless the global Jewish conspiracy suppresses all those stories ... whereas there is not really anywhere on Earth where Muslims peacefully coexist with anyone.

---

There is more to this guy's comments.

He later told me that he considered Hamas to be devils; but that the Jews were bigger devils.

That the Jews have now threatened to bomb Bethlehem.

Also claimed the Jews have publically stated that after they wipe out the Gaza Strip they are going to destroy the Christian Holy Sities throughout Israel and the West Bank.


For the record I am not saying this guy is right about any of this.

Simply an interesting take from a Christian who has lived in Bethlehem for the last 37 years.

---

There are videos on the internet of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims in Israel. They have attacked the Christian caretakers of Jacob's well multiple times, killing one in 1979.

The concept of Judeo-Christian religious unity is a myth.

---

The Netanyhu Govt has made it worse. It is not Govt, Israeli far right is as bad as Moslem far right (maybe not that bad, just south of them). Far right empowers radicals just like far left.

Quote:

---

Easy call on who is the biggest threat.

---

Admitting that they are both threats is progress.

The difference is not right wing or left wing. It is that Dar-al-Islam and Zionism are two wings of the same flightless bird, one as far removed from "my kingdom is not of this world" as possible.

Bear8084 said:

---

On November 5, 2023, an Ohio-class submarine arrived in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility. pic.twitter.com/iDgUFp4enp

— U.S. Central Command (@CENTCOM) November 5, 2023

---

Those Iranian Kilos gotta get perforated.....

whiterock said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

On November 5, 2023, an Ohio-class submarine arrived in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility. pic.twitter.com/iDgUFp4enp

— U.S. Central Command (@CENTCOM) November 5, 2023

---

Those Iranian Kilos gotta get perforated.....

---

Well, where there is an Ohio, there is a Virginia... Maybe even a Sea Wolf.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

On November 5, 2023, an Ohio-class submarine arrived in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility. pic.twitter.com/iDgUFp4enp

— U.S. Central Command (@CENTCOM) November 5, 2023

---

Those Iranian Kilos gotta get perforated.....

---

Well, where there is an Ohio, there is a Virginia... Maybe even a Sea Wolf.

---

I would assume so but Naval OOB is a bit beyond my brief, other than the MEUs that were the cavalry for those of us in Embassies abroad.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

On November 5, 2023, an Ohio-class submarine arrived in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility. pic.twitter.com/iDgUFp4enp

— U.S. Central Command (@CENTCOM) November 5, 2023

---

Those Iranian Kilos gotta get perforated.....

---

Well, where there is an Ohio, there is a Virginia... Maybe even a Sea Wolf.

---

I would assume so but Naval OOB is a bit beyond my brief, other than the MEUs that were the cavalry for those of us in Embassies abroad.

---

I don't expect anyone on here to be talking facts about this type of stuff, if they are we have bigger problems! Just common knowledge stuff from people that have some limited experience. Logically, I would assume you send a boomer into that area, there is an attack sub not far away.

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

I am not saying that is incorrect as I would have no way of knowing; however, globally Jews seem to be on the very low end of the hate crime commission stats ... unless the global Jewish conspiracy suppresses all those stories ... whereas there is not really anywhere on Earth where Muslims peacefully coexist with anyone.

---

There is more to this guy's comments.

He later told me that he considered Hamas to be devils; but that the Jews were bigger devils.

That the Jews have now threatened to bomb Bethlehem.

Also claimed the Jews have publically stated that after they wipe out the Gaza Strip they are going to destroy the Christian Holy Sities throughout Israel and the West Bank.


For the record I am not saying this guy is right about any of this.

Simply an interesting take from a Christian who has lived in Bethlehem for the last 37 years.

---

There are videos on the internet of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims in Israel. They have attacked the Christian caretakers of Jacob's well multiple times, killing one in 1979.

The concept of Judeo-Christian religious unity is a myth.

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

But . . . the internet! Those are such rare examples. And the government (including local) have come out strongly against it.

---

Americans are treated really well. The Arabs and Muslims showed me a lot of hospitality and the Jews were friendly. I even met an Aggie in Jerusalem who was working at a restaurant. He moved me to the head of an hour-long line just because we were both Texans.

KaiBear said:

---

RightRevBear said:

---

As far as I am concerned, both are instruments of evil.

---

IMO this is a lazy approach to a complicated problem.


Israel has possessed the military power to destroy those in the Gaza strip for many years. Yet have always refrained from doing so.

In the reverse situation does anyone believe the Muslims would have shown the same restraint regarding the Jews?

Yes the Gaza Strip is a hell hole. But why haven't the oil rich Muslims countries provided them santuary in all these years ?

---

This provides an explanation for why other Arab countries don't want the Palestinians:

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/11/mustsee_video_why_muslim_nations_dont_want_palestinians.html

Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc are very rich. At y the hdd Ed very least they could provide food, fuel, etc to the Gazans easily. But, like Hamas, they would rather spend money on rockets & other weapons used to kill Jews. At least Iran does. Incredibly stupid for so many millions of people to hold a grudge for 4,000 years. Literally. Read the chapters in Genesis on Abraham, Hagar & Ishmael.

The angel's prophecy to Hagar is still coming true:

"And the angel of the Lord said to her, 'Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has listened to your affliction. He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.'" Genesis 16:11-12

History does not say that they have always been against each other. The Christian Byzantine Empire banned the Jews from living in Israel. The Jews sided with the Muslims in taking it back. During the crusades, the Jews often fought alongside the Muslims and had more freedoms under their rule.

Here is a good source of information.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-crusades

ankara.... anchored down in ankara.....

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

I am not saying that is incorrect as I would have no way of knowing; however, globally Jews seem to be on the very low end of the hate crime commission stats ... unless the global Jewish conspiracy suppresses all those stories ... whereas there is not really anywhere on Earth where Muslims peacefully coexist with anyone.

---

There is more to this guy's comments.

He later told me that he considered Hamas to be devils; but that the Jews were bigger devils.

That the Jews have now threatened to bomb Bethlehem.

Also claimed the Jews have publically stated that after they wipe out the Gaza Strip they are going to destroy the Christian Holy Sities throughout Israel and the West Bank.


For the record I am not saying this guy is right about any of this.

Simply an interesting take from a Christian who has lived in Bethlehem for the last 37 years.

---

There are videos on the internet of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims in Israel. They have attacked the Christian caretakers of Jacob's well multiple times, killing one in 1979.

The concept of Judeo-Christian religious unity is a myth.

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

But . . . the internet! Those are such rare examples. And the government (including local) have come out strongly against it.

---

Americans are treated really well. The Arabs and Muslims showed me a lot of hospitality and the Jews were friendly. I even met an Aggie in Jerusalem who was working at a restaurant. He moved me to the head of an hour-long line just because we were both Texans.

---

Glad to hear it. My interactions with Israelis were always positive, but I never been to Israel.

RightRevBear said:

---

History does not say that they have always been against each other. The Christian Byzantine Empire banned the Jews from living in Israel. The Jews sided with the Muslims in taking it back. During the crusades, the Jews often fought alongside the Muslims and had more freedoms under their rule.

Here is a good source of information.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-crusades

---

Jews were banned from living in the Levant long before the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) came into existence because of their constant and incessant military revolts against the Roman Empire.

[Jews were banned from Jerusalem and Roman Judaea was renamed Syria Palaestina, from which derived "Palestine" in English and "Filistin" in Arabic. After suppressing the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 AD]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt

And yes Jews (especially in Spain and Portugal often allied with the Muslim Moors) but the "Muslims gave us more freedom" sounds like excuse making for "we don't like the Christians so we want to help their enemies"

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

---

I am not saying that is incorrect as I would have no way of knowing; however, globally Jews seem to be on the very low end of the hate crime commission stats ... unless the global Jewish conspiracy suppresses all those stories ... whereas there is not really anywhere on Earth where Muslims peacefully coexist with anyone.

---

There is more to this guy's comments.

He later told me that he considered Hamas to be devils; but that the Jews were bigger devils.

That the Jews have now threatened to bomb Bethlehem.

Also claimed the Jews have publically stated that after they wipe out the Gaza Strip they are going to destroy the Christian Holy Sities throughout Israel and the West Bank.


For the record I am not saying this guy is right about any of this.

Simply an interesting take from a Christian who has lived in Bethlehem for the last 37 years.

---

There are videos on the internet of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims in Israel. They have attacked the Christian caretakers of Jacob's well multiple times, killing one in 1979.

The concept of Judeo-Christian religious unity is a myth.

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

But . . . the internet! Those are such rare examples. And the government (including local) have come out strongly against it.

---

Americans are treated really well. The Arabs and Muslims showed me a lot of hospitality and the Jews were friendly. I even met an Aggie in Jerusalem who was working at a restaurant. He moved me to the head of an hour-long line just because we were both Texans.

---

Glad to hear it. My interactions with Israelis were always positive, but I never been to Israel.

---

The girls in the mall selling Dead Sea Salts don't count. ;-)

---

But, they have special healing abilities...