FLBear5630 said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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KaiBear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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KaiBear said:

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FWIW the guide of our now canceled Holy Land trip lives in Bethlehem.

Was just asked if his family is in any danger.

He replied, 'Christians in Bethlehem have always been in more danger from the local Jews than the Muslims. But US media doesn't cover that.

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I am not saying that is incorrect as I would have no way of knowing; however, globally Jews seem to be on the very low end of the hate crime commission stats ... unless the global Jewish conspiracy suppresses all those stories ... whereas there is not really anywhere on Earth where Muslims peacefully coexist with anyone.

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There is more to this guy's comments.

He later told me that he considered Hamas to be devils; but that the Jews were bigger devils.

That the Jews have now threatened to bomb Bethlehem.

Also claimed the Jews have publically stated that after they wipe out the Gaza Strip they are going to destroy the Christian Holy Sities throughout Israel and the West Bank.


For the record I am not saying this guy is right about any of this.

Simply an interesting take from a Christian who has lived in Bethlehem for the last 37 years.

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There are videos on the internet of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims in Israel. They have attacked the Christian caretakers of Jacob's well multiple times, killing one in 1979.

The concept of Judeo-Christian religious unity is a myth.

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Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

But . . . the internet! Those are such rare examples. And the government (including local) have come out strongly against it.

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Americans are treated really well. The Arabs and Muslims showed me a lot of hospitality and the Jews were friendly. I even met an Aggie in Jerusalem who was working at a restaurant. He moved me to the head of an hour-long line just because we were both Texans.

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Glad to hear it. My interactions with Israelis were always positive, but I never been to Israel.

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The girls in the mall selling Dead Sea Salts don't count. ;-)

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But, they have special healing abilities...

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My Dad sponsored two families from Israel that opened a transmission shop with him when I was a teenager, worked with them alot. Eli was a former paratrooper. Good guys. I was raised in NYC, I go Yom Kippur and Rosh HaShanah off every year growing up.

Actually, I am much more comfortable with Jews than Protestants. Where I grew up, you were either Catholic or Jewish. I heard of Protestants, didn't meet one till I moved to Florida at 17. To me, a Cantor is not something a horse does...

Redbrickbear said:

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RightRevBear said:

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History does not say that they have always been against each other. The Christian Byzantine Empire banned the Jews from living in Israel. The Jews sided with the Muslims in taking it back. During the crusades, the Jews often fought alongside the Muslims and had more freedoms under their rule.

Here is a good source of information.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-crusades

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Jews were banned from living in the Levant long before the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) came into existence because of their constant and incessant military revolts against the Roman Empire.

[Jews were banned from Jerusalem and Roman Judaea was renamed Syria Palaestina, from which derived "Palestine" in English and "Filistin" in Arabic. After suppressing the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 AD]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt

And yes Jews (especially in Spain and Portugal often allied with the Muslim Moors) but the "Muslims gave us more freedom" sounds like excuse making for "we don't like the Christians so we want to help their enemies"

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You are right on the Jews being banned from Palestine. I was just trying to use that as a reference to why they worked with the Muslims. I did the post in between meetings, so I might not have been clear on that.

On the more freedoms aspect, I would disagree with you. Jews were openly and brutally oppressed during much of this time. The Muslims allowed the Jews to live in Palestine, including Jerusalem. You can read this Wikipedia entry. While life wasn't free of persecution, there was less under Muslim rule.

My whole point is to say they have been fighting each other for thousands of years is something I have heard, since I was a child. I think the historical record shows that is not really accurate.

RightRevBear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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RightRevBear said:

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History does not say that they have always been against each other. The Christian Byzantine Empire banned the Jews from living in Israel. The Jews sided with the Muslims in taking it back. During the crusades, the Jews often fought alongside the Muslims and had more freedoms under their rule.

Here is a good source of information.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-crusades

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Jews were banned from living in the Levant long before the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) came into existence because of their constant and incessant military revolts against the Roman Empire.

[Jews were banned from Jerusalem and Roman Judaea was renamed Syria Palaestina, from which derived "Palestine" in English and "Filistin" in Arabic. After suppressing the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 AD]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt

And yes Jews (especially in Spain and Portugal often allied with the Muslim Moors) but the "Muslims gave us more freedom" sounds like excuse making for "we don't like the Christians so we want to help their enemies"

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You are right on the Jews being banned from Palestine. I was just trying to use that as a reference to why they worked with the Muslims. I did the post in between meetings, so I might not have been clear on that.

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Yea, I'm not so sure about that....honestly it could be true...could also be a little revisionist history to come up with post-hoc reasons for why the Jews worked with invading Muslims to oppress and harm their Christian neighbors.

I would have to learn more about Jewish relations with the Byzantine Empire in Egypt and the Western Levant...and to what extent the Byzantines (Eastern Romans) oppressed them.

But Jews in North Africa under the Vandals/Berber tribes and in Spain under the Visigoths were not particularly opressed...yet they sided with the invading Muslims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigothic_Kingdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Spain

[Spanish Jews supported the Muslim invaders and guarded major conquered cities left behind by Muslim troops during their rapid advance. They were then rewarded with an improvement in their condition. They continued to collaborate with the conquerors and function as a counterpoise to the large subject Catholic population. This alliance of convenience followed an Islamic practice dating back to the earliest Muslim conquests of the Christian lands of the Greek Roman Empire ("Byzantine") in the Middle East and North Africa. It had an even earlier precedent in the wars between Persia and the Greek Roman Empire. Therefore, favoring the Sephardic Jewish community continued at the discretion of Muslim rulers as long as it was politically and economically helpful]

p.s.

I actually did find that forced conversion of jews did step up after the Council of Toledo in 653..." The Council again tackled the issue of Jews within the realm. Further measures at the time included the forbidding many Jewish rites. The council was aware that prior efforts had been frustrated by lack of compliance among authorities on the local level; therefore, anyone, including nobles and clergy, found to have aided Jews in their practice of Judaism was to be punished by seizure of one quarter of their property and excommunication.

So that theory might hold

NM

historian said:

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Antisemitism & violence against the Jews have been real all through history. Read the Book of Esther.

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Good call.

Esther's cousin uncovers a plot to kill all of the Jews in the Persian Empire. Esther then uses her position as queen to intervene and save the Jews.

[Note - this is my understanding and not an interpretation]

Israel's #LGBTQ community is playing a broad role on all fronts in war against Hamas: fighting in Gaza, helping the displaced, promoting advocacy#SDG5  #HamasisISIS @AgudaIsraelLGBT @AWiderBridge https://t.co/Xqv7ATu0Lk pic.twitter.com/Almqudb8h2

— Social Impact Israel (@ImpactIsrael) November 6, 2023

sombear said:

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Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

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I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

Quote:

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The Christian Byzantine Empire banned the Jews from living in Israel.

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That's not correct. The directive expelling the Jews from the region came from pre-Christian Rome under Emperor Hadrian at the end of the Bar Kokhba revolt in 136 AD. Constantinople was not founded until 330 AD.

Judaism was generally tolerated in Byzantium, but there were certain restrictions placed on Jews such as the inability to hold public office or serve in the Byzantine military. There was also a prohibition on the construction of new synagogues. We Americans would have done well to recognize the wisdom behind limiting alien religions; if we had we would not have a Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, the Fort Hood Shooter, and the proliferation of Wahabbi mosques after 9-11.

Despite being generally tolerated within the Empire, the Jews revolted and fought with the Persians during the Byzantine-Sasanian War. Note that this consisted of Jews aligning themselves with Zoroastrian Persia, prior to the conquest of Persia by the Rashidun Caliphate and its subjugation by Islam. So no Judeo-Christian sympathies there.

Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

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I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

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Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

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There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

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There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

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Agree, very complicated. But I still maintain we are talking tiny minorities amongst a population that has suffered through the Holocaust and constant attacks ever since. All religions have their extremists, and all in all I'd say Jews/Israelis have largely kept theirs under control despite awful circumstances.

Edit: I watched the videos after posting. Disgusting obviously, but, again, not surprised by Israelis and Gazans absolutely despising each other, and, yes, some number of Israelis (small numbers) wanting to wipe Gaz off the map after Oct 7.

BTW: Jackson Hinkle is a scumbag who I think has set a record for being dupes and posting fraudulent videos.

The public has no idea how deadly the threat against our troops is right now—and the administration is doing nothing. If that continues, it's only a matter of time until people die.

I talked to a buddy at one of these bases tonight. Here's a ground level perspective:

"We're in… https://t.co/b7wzHZ9X01

— James Hasson (@JamesHasson20) November 7, 2023

Quote:

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The public has no idea how deadly the threat against our troops is right nowand the administration is doing nothing. If that continues, it's only a matter of time until people die.

I talked to a buddy at one of these bases tonight. Here's a ground level perspective:

"We're in the bunkers about every other day. These ****ers will eventually get lucky with one of these drones and kill a lot of people."

He attributed the (relative) lack of severity in the number and type of casualties to "sheer luck."

"We aren't doing **** in response." The administration's total inertia in response to the threat level is hard for them to fathom.

The administration's sole response to 40+ attacksyes, more than the 38 publicly acknowledged so farwasn't serious and the whole region knows it: "Meanwhile, we bombed a few empty shacks in Syria."

The bottom line: unless the administration starts showing some meaningful deterrence, things could get really bad really quickly.

There's a *lot* happening in the world right now (understatement of the century), but this needs to be a MUCH bigger story than it is right now.

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

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And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

---

And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

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Correct…They just vote for a government that will do it for them.

While keeping 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank under the military boot and endless occupation

KaiBear said:

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War is a *****, always has been, and Americans have zero right to pontificate on Israeli revenge.

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Some people are surprised that Western powers when sufficiently roused will fight a war of annihilation and demand your unconditional surrender before they stop killing your people and tearing up your stuff. Most living Europeans and Americans, despite suffering horrific attacks themselves, have not seen such an objective or resolve. It is a new concept in practice.

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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KaiBear said:

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War is a *****, always has been, and Americans have zero right to pontificate on Israeli revenge.

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Some people are surprised that Western powers when sufficiently roused will fight a war of annihilation and demand your unconditional surrender before they stop killing your people and tearing up your stuff. Most living Europeans and Americans, despite suffering horrific attacks themselves, have not seen such an objective or resolve. It is a new concept in practice.

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Not since Japan and Germany...

KaiBear said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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KaiBear said:

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War is a *****, always has been, and Americans have zero right to pontificate on Israeli revenge.

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Some people are surprised that Western powers when sufficiently roused will fight a war of annihilation and demand your unconditional surrender before they stop killing your people and tearing up your stuff. Most living Europeans and Americans, despite suffering horrific attacks themselves, have not seen such an objective or resolve. It is a new concept in practice.

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Anyone who was alive during 9-11 knows what revenge is all about.


But when it involves Jews some folks magically aquire selective amnesia.

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To see the look on the Hamas prisoners' faces when they realize they will not be let of an Israeli prison on a prisoner swap and might even be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

---

And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

---

Correct…They just vote for a government that will do it for them.

While keeping 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank under the military boot and endless occupation

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No, the Palestinians vote for that sort of government. I do not think that ever before in the history of the world have there been a people who, as an identifiable people group, remained refugees for 3 consecutive generations. The Jews were liquidated and forced out of Europe and became successful in America and Israel in one generation. The Vietnamese and Cubans come here on boats and are successful in one generation. Indians come here and are successful in one generation.

You might think that there is incentive, through the global government welfare received by the PA and Hamas, to perpetuate the victim status of their people.

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You seem to be lumping a lot of things together.

1. Did Jews getting massacred into Europe entitled them to take other peoples land? The Armenians getting slaughter by the Turks did not entitle them move somewhere else to take some other land for their own. (Either way....Israel was established by international agreement...so it exists now as a sovereign state and that has to be acknowledged)

2. Vietnamese and Cubans coming to American and being successful is because American Whites already created a extremely successful nation and are nice enough/kind enough to allow foreign peoples in to share in the wealth, civil government, lawful courts, protection of property, etc. that already exist here. If you are an ethnic/racial group that can not thrive in America you have some serious internal problems.

3. The Local Arabs around the region and the Israelis have never let the Palestinians become citizens (which of course opens up another discussion about why the local Arab States have never allowed that...or why Israel has not allowed that since racial Diversity is Strength or at least that is what we are constantly told)

4. None of these historic or present issues between the Israelis and the Palestinians make it our problem. Our elected leaders in Congress should stay out of this ethnic/racial conflict

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

---

And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

---

Correct…They just vote for a government that will do it for them.

While keeping 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank under the military boot and endless occupation

---

No, the Palestinians vote for that sort of government. I do not think that ever before in the history of the world have there been a people who, as an identifiable people group, remained refugees for 3 consecutive generations. The Jews were liquidated and forced out of Europe and became successful in America and Israel in one generation. The Vietnamese and Cubans come here on boats and are successful in one generation. Indians come here and are successful in one generation.

You might think that there is incentive, through the global government welfare received by the PA and Hamas, to perpetuate the victim status of their people.

---

You seem to be lumping a lot of things together.

1. Did Jews getting massacred into Europe entitled them to take other peoples land? The Armenians getting slaughter by the Turks did not entitle them move somewhere else to take some other land for their own. (Either way....Israel was established by international agreement...so it exists now as a sovereign state and that has to be acknowledged)

2. Vietnamese and Cubans coming to American and being successful is because American Whites already created a extremely successful nation and are nice enough/kind enough to allow foreign peoples in to share in the wealth, civil government, lawful courts, protection of property, etc. that already exist here. If you are an ethnic/racial group that can not thrive in America you have some serious internal problems.

3. The Local Arabs around the region and the Israelis have never let the Palestinians become citizens (which of course opens up another discussion about why the local Arab States have never allowed that...or why Israel has not allowed that since racial Diversity is Strength or at least that is what we are constantly told)

4. None of these historic or present issues between the Israelis and the Palestinians make it our problem. Our elected leaders in Congress should stay out of this ethnic/racial conflict

---

The threshold flaw here is that they did not "take other peoples land." That land had changed hands/populations numerous times and recently had been British, Jordan land, etc. Jews lived there historically (arguably first) and well into the 20th Century, despite being forced out by Palestinians/Arabs.

One can argue that Jews should not have been given any land, but that is a different argument entirely, and not many folks admit adopting it. A strong majority believes the partition was fair and just, and Israel accepted it.

---

Its a semantic argument and one that is not actually that interesting.

Should the Ashkenazi Jews from Europe have come to the Levant to try and establish a State and pushed out the Arabs? Should the Mizrahi Jews of the middle east have been forced out from their land by other Arabs to move to Israel? etc.

What's done is done.

My point is that talking about the Holocaust or the Nakba is no longer really relevant (except for emotional reasons). Its been 75 years since those events and 3 generations of people have been born on both sides.

The world community has coalesced around a very reasonable position that the land that should be divided up between the Israelis and the Palestinians and that both should have States now.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

---

And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

---

Correct…They just vote for a government that will do it for them.

While keeping 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank under the military boot and endless occupation

---

No, the Palestinians vote for that sort of government. I do not think that ever before in the history of the world have there been a people who, as an identifiable people group, remained refugees for 3 consecutive generations. The Jews were liquidated and forced out of Europe and became successful in America and Israel in one generation. The Vietnamese and Cubans come here on boats and are successful in one generation. Indians come here and are successful in one generation.

You might think that there is incentive, through the global government welfare received by the PA and Hamas, to perpetuate the victim status of their people.

---

You seem to be lumping a lot of things together.

1. Did Jews getting massacred into Europe entitled them to take other peoples land? The Armenians getting slaughter by the Turks did not entitle them move somewhere else to take some other land for their own. (Either way....Israel was established by international agreement...so it exists now as a sovereign state and that has to be acknowledged)

2. Vietnamese and Cubans coming to American and being successful is because American Whites already created a extremely successful nation and are nice enough/kind enough to allow foreign peoples in to share in the wealth, civil government, lawful courts, protection of property, etc. that already exist here. If you are an ethnic/racial group that can not thrive in America you have some serious internal problems.

3. The Local Arabs around the region and the Israelis have never let the Palestinians become citizens (which of course opens up another discussion about why the local Arab States have never allowed that...or why Israel has not allowed that since racial Diversity is Strength or at least that is what we are constantly told)

4. None of these historic or present issues between the Israelis and the Palestinians make it our problem. Our elected leaders in Congress should stay out of this ethnic/racial conflict

---

The threshold flaw here is that they did not "take other peoples land." That land had changed hands/populations numerous times and recently had been British, Jordan land, etc. Jews lived there historically (arguably first) and well into the 20th Century, despite being forced out by Palestinians/Arabs.

One can argue that Jews should not have been given any land, but that is a different argument entirely, and not many folks admit adopting it. A strong majority believes the partition was fair and just, and Israel accepted it.

---

The world community has coalesced around a very reasonable position that the land that should be divided up between the Israelis and the Palestinians and that both should have States now.

---

The Palestinians have been offered a state multiple times. Have you been sleepwalking through the past three decades?

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

---

And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

---

Correct…They just vote for a government that will do it for them.

While keeping 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank under the military boot and endless occupation

---

No, the Palestinians vote for that sort of government. I do not think that ever before in the history of the world have there been a people who, as an identifiable people group, remained refugees for 3 consecutive generations. The Jews were liquidated and forced out of Europe and became successful in America and Israel in one generation. The Vietnamese and Cubans come here on boats and are successful in one generation. Indians come here and are successful in one generation.

You might think that there is incentive, through the global government welfare received by the PA and Hamas, to perpetuate the victim status of their people.

---

You seem to be lumping a lot of things together.

1. Did Jews getting massacred into Europe entitled them to take other peoples land? The Armenians getting slaughter by the Turks did not entitle them move somewhere else to take some other land for their own. (Either way....Israel was established by international agreement...so it exists now as a sovereign state and that has to be acknowledged)

2. Vietnamese and Cubans coming to American and being successful is because American Whites already created a extremely successful nation and are nice enough/kind enough to allow foreign peoples in to share in the wealth, civil government, lawful courts, protection of property, etc. that already exist here. If you are an ethnic/racial group that can not thrive in America you have some serious internal problems.

3. The Local Arabs around the region and the Israelis have never let the Palestinians become citizens (which of course opens up another discussion about why the local Arab States have never allowed that...or why Israel has not allowed that since racial Diversity is Strength or at least that is what we are constantly told)

4. None of these historic or present issues between the Israelis and the Palestinians make it our problem. Our elected leaders in Congress should stay out of this ethnic/racial conflict

---

The threshold flaw here is that they did not "take other peoples land." That land had changed hands/populations numerous times and recently had been British, Jordan land, etc. Jews lived there historically (arguably first) and well into the 20th Century, despite being forced out by Palestinians/Arabs.

One can argue that Jews should not have been given any land, but that is a different argument entirely, and not many folks admit adopting it. A strong majority believes the partition was fair and just, and Israel accepted it.

---

I would like to see the arguments that Jews lived there first. I am not saying their might not be, but I don't really know of any.

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

---

And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

---

Correct…They just vote for a government that will do it for them.

While keeping 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank under the military boot and endless occupation

---

No, the Palestinians vote for that sort of government. I do not think that ever before in the history of the world have there been a people who, as an identifiable people group, remained refugees for 3 consecutive generations. The Jews were liquidated and forced out of Europe and became successful in America and Israel in one generation. The Vietnamese and Cubans come here on boats and are successful in one generation. Indians come here and are successful in one generation.

You might think that there is incentive, through the global government welfare received by the PA and Hamas, to perpetuate the victim status of their people.

---

You seem to be lumping a lot of things together.

1. Did Jews getting massacred into Europe entitled them to take other peoples land? The Armenians getting slaughter by the Turks did not entitle them move somewhere else to take some other land for their own. (Either way....Israel was established by international agreement...so it exists now as a sovereign state and that has to be acknowledged)

2. Vietnamese and Cubans coming to American and being successful is because American Whites already created a extremely successful nation and are nice enough/kind enough to allow foreign peoples in to share in the wealth, civil government, lawful courts, protection of property, etc. that already exist here. If you are an ethnic/racial group that can not thrive in America you have some serious internal problems.

3. The Local Arabs around the region and the Israelis have never let the Palestinians become citizens (which of course opens up another discussion about why the local Arab States have never allowed that...or why Israel has not allowed that since racial Diversity is Strength or at least that is what we are constantly told)

4. None of these historic or present issues between the Israelis and the Palestinians make it our problem. Our elected leaders in Congress should stay out of this ethnic/racial conflict

---

The threshold flaw here is that they did not "take other peoples land." That land had changed hands/populations numerous times and recently had been British, Jordan land, etc. Jews lived there historically (arguably first) and well into the 20th Century, despite being forced out by Palestinians/Arabs.

One can argue that Jews should not have been given any land, but that is a different argument entirely, and not many folks admit adopting it. A strong majority believes the partition was fair and just, and Israel accepted it.

---

The world community has coalesced around a very reasonable position that the land that should be divided up between the Israelis and the Palestinians and that both should have States now.

---

The Palestinians have been offered a state multiple times. Have you been sleepwalking through the past three decades?

---

He knows.

But nothing is going to remove what his parents put in.

KaiBear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

---

And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

---

Correct…They just vote for a government that will do it for them.

While keeping 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank under the military boot and endless occupation

---

No, the Palestinians vote for that sort of government. I do not think that ever before in the history of the world have there been a people who, as an identifiable people group, remained refugees for 3 consecutive generations. The Jews were liquidated and forced out of Europe and became successful in America and Israel in one generation. The Vietnamese and Cubans come here on boats and are successful in one generation. Indians come here and are successful in one generation.

You might think that there is incentive, through the global government welfare received by the PA and Hamas, to perpetuate the victim status of their people.

---

You seem to be lumping a lot of things together.

1. Did Jews getting massacred into Europe entitled them to take other peoples land? The Armenians getting slaughter by the Turks did not entitle them move somewhere else to take some other land for their own. (Either way....Israel was established by international agreement...so it exists now as a sovereign state and that has to be acknowledged)

2. Vietnamese and Cubans coming to American and being successful is because American Whites already created a extremely successful nation and are nice enough/kind enough to allow foreign peoples in to share in the wealth, civil government, lawful courts, protection of property, etc. that already exist here. If you are an ethnic/racial group that can not thrive in America you have some serious internal problems.

3. The Local Arabs around the region and the Israelis have never let the Palestinians become citizens (which of course opens up another discussion about why the local Arab States have never allowed that...or why Israel has not allowed that since racial Diversity is Strength or at least that is what we are constantly told)

4. None of these historic or present issues between the Israelis and the Palestinians make it our problem. Our elected leaders in Congress should stay out of this ethnic/racial conflict

---

The threshold flaw here is that they did not "take other peoples land." That land had changed hands/populations numerous times and recently had been British, Jordan land, etc. Jews lived there historically (arguably first) and well into the 20th Century, despite being forced out by Palestinians/Arabs.

One can argue that Jews should not have been given any land, but that is a different argument entirely, and not many folks admit adopting it. A strong majority believes the partition was fair and just, and Israel accepted it.

---

The world community has coalesced around a very reasonable position that the land that should be divided up between the Israelis and the Palestinians and that both should have States now.

---

The Palestinians have been offered a state multiple times. Have you been sleepwalking through the past three decades?

---

He knows.

But nothing is going to remove what his parents put in.

---

In 1948, Israel would have received 30% of the land and 0% of Jerusalem. Palestinians would have received 70% of the land and 100% of Jerusalem

Osodecentx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

---

Have you visited Israel?

Christians are treated amazingly well in every respect.

---

I have. One of the regrets I have is that at the time I went with an Evangelical group that skipped the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. The automatic elevators (they set them to run continuously, stopping on every floor) on the Sabbath were interesting, because Jews aren't supposed to do the work of pressing an elevator button on the sabbath. There are things you see - like off duty IDF in civilian clothes wandering around with their battle rifles - that you definitely don't see here. Oh, and you can't get a Cheeseburger because it violates Jewish dietary law.

Christian pilgrims do spend a good bit of money in Israel. In general, Secular Jews have a generally favorable disposition to Christian pilgrims and treat us well. Religious Jews on the other hand, well, you get to see why the Pharisee avoided the Samaritan.

Do a little research into what the Talmud teaches about Jesus vs the Koran. This is not an endorsement of either but it gives you some insight into what separates the thee Abrahamic religions.

---

Yes, all kinds of interesting experiences in Israel.

I do think you're painting religious jews with a broad brush. You seem to have considerable knowledge in this area, and there is tremendous diversity among religious jews. I've spent a lot of time with religious jews, including living and working in the most Orthodox area in a major metro area. I've not had one negative experience.

I'm far from a religious scholar, but I know enough to know that Talmud references to Jesus are hotly debated to this day. But, regardless, I could care less. By definition, religions believe that other religions are full of it . . . .

---

There are Hardi Jews that don't even believe in the State of Israel…aka they think the Torah prevents them from creating a State until the coming of the messiah.

And then there are secular Jews who are basically full on with blood lust for wiping out their racial enemies.

It's certainly complicated over there

Regarding calls for genocide and violence to wipe out entire populations, here are interviews with young Israelis who went to enjoy watching the sight of bombs falling on Gaza in 2014.

Clear off all the city, one said: just take it off the ground. "I'm a little bit fascist." pic.twitter.com/edfredIUI3

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 6, 2023

holy sh*t pic.twitter.com/E7xV4ommTA

— Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 (@jacksonhinklle) November 6, 2023

---

And not a single one of them launched a rocket or strapped a bomb vest on themselves to explode themselves around unsuspecting Gazans.

---

Correct…They just vote for a government that will do it for them.

While keeping 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank under the military boot and endless occupation

---

No, the Palestinians vote for that sort of government. I do not think that ever before in the history of the world have there been a people who, as an identifiable people group, remained refugees for 3 consecutive generations. The Jews were liquidated and forced out of Europe and became successful in America and Israel in one generation. The Vietnamese and Cubans come here on boats and are successful in one generation. Indians come here and are successful in one generation.

You might think that there is incentive, through the global government welfare received by the PA and Hamas, to perpetuate the victim status of their people.

---

You seem to be lumping a lot of things together.

1. Did Jews getting massacred into Europe entitled them to take other peoples land? The Armenians getting slaughter by the Turks did not entitle them move somewhere else to take some other land for their own. (Either way....Israel was established by international agreement...so it exists now as a sovereign state and that has to be acknowledged)

2. Vietnamese and Cubans coming to American and being successful is because American Whites already created a extremely successful nation and are nice enough/kind enough to allow foreign peoples in to share in the wealth, civil government, lawful courts, protection of property, etc. that already exist here. If you are an ethnic/racial group that can not thrive in America you have some serious internal problems.

3. The Local Arabs around the region and the Israelis have never let the Palestinians become citizens (which of course opens up another discussion about why the local Arab States have never allowed that...or why Israel has not allowed that since racial Diversity is Strength or at least that is what we are constantly told)

4. None of these historic or present issues between the Israelis and the Palestinians make it our problem. Our elected leaders in Congress should stay out of this ethnic/racial conflict

---

The threshold flaw here is that they did not "take other peoples land." That land had changed hands/populations numerous times and recently had been British, Jordan land, etc. Jews lived there historically (arguably first) and well into the 20th Century, despite being forced out by Palestinians/Arabs.

One can argue that Jews should not have been given any land, but that is a different argument entirely, and not many folks admit adopting it. A strong majority believes the partition was fair and just, and Israel accepted it.

---

The world community has coalesced around a very reasonable position that the land that should be divided up between the Israelis and the Palestinians and that both should have States now.

---

The Palestinians have been offered a state multiple times. Have you been sleepwalking through the past three decades?

---

He knows.

But nothing is going to remove what his parents put in.

---

In 1948, Israel would have received 30% of the land and 0% of Jerusalem. Palestinians would have received 70% of the land and 100% of Jerusalem

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In 1540 native Americans owned 100% of the land and and the United States 0 %.

When you ask yourself why the dog is in a cage it's because every time it gets let out it kills the neighbors cat and can't be trusted.