cms186 said:

---

according to US numbers, 25'000 Palestinian Women or Children have been killed by Israel

UNREAL!!! US Secty of Defense just stated under oath in his congressional testimony that Netanyahu's military has killed MORE than 25,000 women and children!!! Yes, based on US intel more than 25,000 women and CHILDREN have been killed by Netanyahu's military! pic.twitter.com/XsUQ9fEwMA

— (((DeanObeidallah))) (@DeanObeidallah) February 29, 2024

---

The White House later clarified that he was simply parroting Hamas' numbers.

J.R. said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

I was in Lebanon in April. That is one interesting place. We stayed in Beruit, but hosts had us all over the country including the south which is Hezzbola territory . Our hosts were of the Christian variety. It is about 90-10 Muslim/Christian. We were in the south and we found out that our host paid off Hezzbo so that we could visit places that were under their control. We didn't find out till toward the end of the trip that we had security everywhere we went, but didn't know it. Just how it works. It is really sad to see what has happened to that amazing country and culture.

---

My wife is of Lebanese descent. Many of her aunts and cousins came to the US directly from Lebanon.

All are Christians; and all bemoan what has occurred in Lebanon over the last 40! years. How the Muslims forced most Christians out of the country with terror tactics. Including the kidnapping of young Christian girls.

Irregardless I envy your ability to visit the country as it has long been on my bucket list. You certainly live well.


BTW my wife tells me Beruit used to be so beautiful and cosmopolitan that it was commonly known as Paris of the Middle East. Now she feels it is not worth the risk to go.

---

I have been fortunate to travel all over the world, and that is in my top 3 trips. The warmth of the people, really getting to see it up close and personal. Lebanon is so beautiful. The biblical history is awesome. Somehow, our hosts got us into this small chapel that most can't access and it was the place where St. Paul and St. Peter had their last meeting. You can ski in the morning and be at the beach in the afternoon. The food...oh, the food! Great wine too! (that is why we were there). Our friends fled when all this broke out. Thankfully , most have homes in Europe, but they are so worried about their beautiful homes getting bombed. Once this settles. I'd highly recommend. I can tell you where to stay and what to do.

---

Concur on Lebanon. Was actually surprised at how great of a city Beirut was. If you haven't already, I recommend Morocco as well.

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

If it was my children that Hamas did that to then 25K would be a good start. The question as an outsider is should you continue to support the plan that has no clear end in sight but ending it would mean more deaths for Israel. I doubt this is going to be solved this century.

---

Without US support Israel cannot survive in the face of increasing Muslim military strength and sophistication.

With our irreversible demographic changes US support of Israel will eventually cease.

Israel needs to make a reasonable effort for ( an imperfect ) peace now while they still can.

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

historian said:

---

I'm not sure I trust anything coming out if this regime. Even if true, it's just another indictment against Hamas. Those terrorists have the blood on their hands of everyone on both sides who died in this war.

---

Thats how I feel about Israel and our puppet govt

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

I'm not sure I trust anything coming out if this regime. Even if true, it's just another indictment against Hamas. Those terrorists have the blood on their hands of everyone on both sides who died in this war.

---

Thats how I feel about Israel and our puppet govt

---

As long as you also feel that way about Hamas then there's no issue. Healthy distrust of state media is really smart.

nein51 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

I'm not sure I trust anything coming out if this regime. Even if true, it's just another indictment against Hamas. Those terrorists have the blood on their hands of everyone on both sides who died in this war.

---

Thats how I feel about Israel and our puppet govt

---

As long as you also feel that way about Hamas then there's no issue. Healthy distrust of state media is really smart.

---

I dont trust any terrorist group but Hamas wouldnt exist if the Mossad didnt create them.

ATL Bear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

nein51 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

I'm not sure I trust anything coming out if this regime. Even if true, it's just another indictment against Hamas. Those terrorists have the blood on their hands of everyone on both sides who died in this war.

---

Thats how I feel about Israel and our puppet govt

---

As long as you also feel that way about Hamas then there's no issue. Healthy distrust of state media is really smart.

---

I dont trust any terrorist group but Hamas wouldnt exist if the Mossad didnt create them.

---

Oh boy…

---

Turns out to be true...

The Washington Post admits as much. And so do most other new organizations....its not even a controversial take anymore. Israel helped create Hamas as a counterweight to the more secular Arab nationalist PLO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

It also obscures Hamas's curious history. To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.
At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). Fatah was secular and cast in the mold of other revolutionary, leftist guerrilla movements waging insurgencies elsewhere in the world during the Cold War. The PLO carried out assassinations and kidnappings and, although recognized by neighboring Arab states, was considered a terrorist organization by Israel; PLO operatives in the occupied territories faced brutal repression at the hands of the Israeli security state.
Meanwhile, the activities of Islamists affiliated with Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood were allowed in the open in Gaza a radical departure from when the Strip was administered by the secular-nationalist Egyptian government of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Egypt lost control of Gaza to Israel after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, which saw Israel also seize the West Bank. In 1966, Nasser had executed Sayyid Qutb, one of the Brotherhood's leading intellectuals. The Israelis saw Qutb's adherents in the Palestinian territories, including the wheelchair-bound Sheik Ahmed Yassin, as a useful counterweight to Arafat's PLO....


https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

ron.reagan said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

What would be the terms of a permanent ceasefire?

Hamas still has hostages. Hamas is still proudly proclaiming they stand for the destruction of Israel. Hamas is still proudly bragging about October. Hamas is still proudly saying they will do it again. Hamas is still operating out of schools, mosques, homes, and tunnels.

Hamas will never accept Israeli troops in Gaza.

Israel cannot reinstate Gazan work permits.

I truly do not see how this ends without Hamas surrendering and relinquishing control.

---

Probably a framework based on the Budapest Memorandum. From my understanding Ukraine is loving it

---

Drop the mike...

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Amen

If the jews and arabs want to kill each others children (and they obviously do) then they should do it without our help.

The New York Times is such a "reliable" source of information!

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

nein51 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

I'm not sure I trust anything coming out if this regime. Even if true, it's just another indictment against Hamas. Those terrorists have the blood on their hands of everyone on both sides who died in this war.

---

Thats how I feel about Israel and our puppet govt

---

As long as you also feel that way about Hamas then there's no issue. Healthy distrust of state media is really smart.

---

I dont trust any terrorist group but Hamas wouldnt exist if the Mossad didnt create them.

---

Oh boy…

---

Turns out to be true...

The Washington Post admits as much. And so do most other new organizations....its not even a controversial take anymore. Israel helped create Hamas as a counterweight to the more secular Arab nationalist PLO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

It also obscures Hamas's curious history. To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.
At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). Fatah was secular and cast in the mold of other revolutionary, leftist guerrilla movements waging insurgencies elsewhere in the world during the Cold War. The PLO carried out assassinations and kidnappings and, although recognized by neighboring Arab states, was considered a terrorist organization by Israel; PLO operatives in the occupied territories faced brutal repression at the hands of the Israeli security state.
Meanwhile, the activities of Islamists affiliated with Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood were allowed in the open in Gaza a radical departure from when the Strip was administered by the secular-nationalist Egyptian government of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Egypt lost control of Gaza to Israel after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, which saw Israel also seize the West Bank. In 1966, Nasser had executed Sayyid Qutb, one of the Brotherhood's leading intellectuals. The Israelis saw Qutb's adherents in the Palestinian territories, including the wheelchair-bound Sheik Ahmed Yassin, as a useful counterweight to Arafat's PLO....


https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

---

Wait, you read those links and came out with "The Mossad" created them?? I mean the Muslim Brotherhood predates current Israel.

---

I rephrase that in the terms that the articles say…Israel itself helped empower the most radical factions that become Hamas.


Surely you have some criticism for Israel for doing that no?

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

nein51 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

I'm not sure I trust anything coming out if this regime. Even if true, it's just another indictment against Hamas. Those terrorists have the blood on their hands of everyone on both sides who died in this war.

---

Thats how I feel about Israel and our puppet govt

---

As long as you also feel that way about Hamas then there's no issue. Healthy distrust of state media is really smart.

---

I dont trust any terrorist group but Hamas wouldnt exist if the Mossad didnt create them.

---

Oh boy…

---

Turns out to be true...

The Washington Post admits as much. And so do most other new organizations....its not even a controversial take anymore. Israel helped create Hamas as a counterweight to the more secular Arab nationalist PLO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

It also obscures Hamas's curious history. To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.
At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). Fatah was secular and cast in the mold of other revolutionary, leftist guerrilla movements waging insurgencies elsewhere in the world during the Cold War. The PLO carried out assassinations and kidnappings and, although recognized by neighboring Arab states, was considered a terrorist organization by Israel; PLO operatives in the occupied territories faced brutal repression at the hands of the Israeli security state.
Meanwhile, the activities of Islamists affiliated with Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood were allowed in the open in Gaza a radical departure from when the Strip was administered by the secular-nationalist Egyptian government of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Egypt lost control of Gaza to Israel after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, which saw Israel also seize the West Bank. In 1966, Nasser had executed Sayyid Qutb, one of the Brotherhood's leading intellectuals. The Israelis saw Qutb's adherents in the Palestinian territories, including the wheelchair-bound Sheik Ahmed Yassin, as a useful counterweight to Arafat's PLO....


https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

---

Wait, you read those links and came out with "The Mossad" created them?? I mean the Muslim Brotherhood predates current Israel.

---

Israel's objective was twofold: to split the nationalist Palestinian movement led by Arafat and, more fundamentally, to thwart the implementation of the two-state solution for resolving the protracted Israeli-Palestinian conflict. By aiding the rise of an Islamist group whose charter rejected recognizing the Israeli state, Israel sought to undermine the idea of a two-state solution, including curbing Western support for an independent Palestinian homeland.

Israel's spy agency Mossad played a role in this divide-and-rule game in the occupied territories. In a 1994 book, "The Other Side of Deception," Mossad whistleblower Victor Ostrovsky contended that aiding Hamas meshed with "Mossad's general plan" for an Arab world "run by fundamentalists" that would reject "any negotiations with the West," thereby leaving Israel as "the only democratic, rational country in the region." Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official involved in Gaza for over two decades, told a newspaper interviewer in 2009 that, "Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation."

I thought this was common knowledge that Mossad created Hamas just like the CIA created ISIS.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

nein51 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

I'm not sure I trust anything coming out if this regime. Even if true, it's just another indictment against Hamas. Those terrorists have the blood on their hands of everyone on both sides who died in this war.

---

Thats how I feel about Israel and our puppet govt

---

As long as you also feel that way about Hamas then there's no issue. Healthy distrust of state media is really smart.

---

I dont trust any terrorist group but Hamas wouldnt exist if the Mossad didnt create them.

---

Oh boy…

---

Turns out to be true...

The Washington Post admits as much. And so do most other new organizations....its not even a controversial take anymore. Israel helped create Hamas as a counterweight to the more secular Arab nationalist PLO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

It also obscures Hamas's curious history. To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.
At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). Fatah was secular and cast in the mold of other revolutionary, leftist guerrilla movements waging insurgencies elsewhere in the world during the Cold War. The PLO carried out assassinations and kidnappings and, although recognized by neighboring Arab states, was considered a terrorist organization by Israel; PLO operatives in the occupied territories faced brutal repression at the hands of the Israeli security state.
Meanwhile, the activities of Islamists affiliated with Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood were allowed in the open in Gaza a radical departure from when the Strip was administered by the secular-nationalist Egyptian government of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Egypt lost control of Gaza to Israel after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, which saw Israel also seize the West Bank. In 1966, Nasser had executed Sayyid Qutb, one of the Brotherhood's leading intellectuals. The Israelis saw Qutb's adherents in the Palestinian territories, including the wheelchair-bound Sheik Ahmed Yassin, as a useful counterweight to Arafat's PLO....


https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

---

Wait, you read those links and came out with "The Mossad" created them?? I mean the Muslim Brotherhood predates current Israel.

---

I rephrase that in the terms that the articles say…Israel itself helped empower the most radical factions that become Hamas.


Surely you have some criticism for Israel for doing that no?

---

These guys are radical on their own, and Sayyid Qutb was arguably the father of modern terrorism and jihad ideology. But you can certainly say Israel has been a very active participant in escalation.

muddybrazos said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

nein51 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

I'm not sure I trust anything coming out if this regime. Even if true, it's just another indictment against Hamas. Those terrorists have the blood on their hands of everyone on both sides who died in this war.

---

Thats how I feel about Israel and our puppet govt

---

As long as you also feel that way about Hamas then there's no issue. Healthy distrust of state media is really smart.

---

I dont trust any terrorist group but Hamas wouldnt exist if the Mossad didnt create them.

---

Oh boy…

---

Turns out to be true...

The Washington Post admits as much. And so do most other new organizations....its not even a controversial take anymore. Israel helped create Hamas as a counterweight to the more secular Arab nationalist PLO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

It also obscures Hamas's curious history. To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.
At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). Fatah was secular and cast in the mold of other revolutionary, leftist guerrilla movements waging insurgencies elsewhere in the world during the Cold War. The PLO carried out assassinations and kidnappings and, although recognized by neighboring Arab states, was considered a terrorist organization by Israel; PLO operatives in the occupied territories faced brutal repression at the hands of the Israeli security state.
Meanwhile, the activities of Islamists affiliated with Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood were allowed in the open in Gaza a radical departure from when the Strip was administered by the secular-nationalist Egyptian government of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Egypt lost control of Gaza to Israel after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, which saw Israel also seize the West Bank. In 1966, Nasser had executed Sayyid Qutb, one of the Brotherhood's leading intellectuals. The Israelis saw Qutb's adherents in the Palestinian territories, including the wheelchair-bound Sheik Ahmed Yassin, as a useful counterweight to Arafat's PLO....


https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

---

Wait, you read those links and came out with "The Mossad" created them?? I mean the Muslim Brotherhood predates current Israel.

---

Israel's objective was twofold: to split the nationalist Palestinian movement led by Arafat and, more fundamentally, to thwart the implementation of the two-state solution for resolving the protracted Israeli-Palestinian conflict. By aiding the rise of an Islamist group whose charter rejected recognizing the Israeli state, Israel sought to undermine the idea of a two-state solution, including curbing Western support for an independent Palestinian homeland.

Israel's spy agency Mossad played a role in this divide-and-rule game in the occupied territories. In a 1994 book, "The Other Side of Deception," Mossad whistleblower Victor Ostrovsky contended that aiding Hamas meshed with "Mossad's general plan" for an Arab world "run by fundamentalists" that would reject "any negotiations with the West," thereby leaving Israel as "the only democratic, rational country in the region." Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official involved in Gaza for over two decades, told a newspaper interviewer in 2009 that, "Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation."

I thought this was common knowledge that Mossad created Hamas just like the CIA created ISIS.

---

Wrong. If you follow the development of the Sunni and Salafist movements OUTSIDE Israel you would find the origins. Israel simply became an easy flashpoint, especially since the entire Arab World didn't want Israel and attacked them multiple times before there ever was this mythical support of a two state solution. These are foreign proxies, and a continuation of the failed invasion efforts from the Arab league, not some natural uprising.

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

It's helping them keep their demographic level of superiority in a cruel ethnic struggle.

And it's forcing Palestinians (at least some) to abandon the idea of having a life in Gaza.

Every time a Palestinian moves to the West it's a win for Israel.

Because at the end of the day Israelis want the Arabs gone to Europe and America and they want to settle the land.

[Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich (left) and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir (right) have advocated for the mass relocation of Palestinians outside of Gaza to make way for Israeli settlers]

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

It's helping them keep their demographic level of superiority in a cruel ethnic struggle.

And it's forcing Palestinians (at least some) to abandon the idea of having a life in Gaza.

Every time a Palestinian moves to the West it's a win for Israel.

Because at the end of the day Israelis want the Arabs gone to Europe and America and they want to settle the land.

[Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich (left) and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir (right) have advocated for the mass relocation of Palestinians outside of Gaza to make way for Israeli settlers]

---

Muslims have one of the highest birth rates in the world.

Israel can't begin to kill enough to 'win' a blood soaked 'victory '.

ATL Bear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

I was in Lebanon in April. That is one interesting place. We stayed in Beruit, but hosts had us all over the country including the south which is Hezzbola territory . Our hosts were of the Christian variety. It is about 90-10 Muslim/Christian. We were in the south and we found out that our host paid off Hezzbo so that we could visit places that were under their control. We didn't find out till toward the end of the trip that we had security everywhere we went, but didn't know it. Just how it works. It is really sad to see what has happened to that amazing country and culture.

---

My wife is of Lebanese descent. Many of her aunts and cousins came to the US directly from Lebanon.

All are Christians; and all bemoan what has occurred in Lebanon over the last 40! years. How the Muslims forced most Christians out of the country with terror tactics. Including the kidnapping of young Christian girls.

Irregardless I envy your ability to visit the country as it has long been on my bucket list. You certainly live well.


BTW my wife tells me Beruit used to be so beautiful and cosmopolitan that it was commonly known as Paris of the Middle East. Now she feels it is not worth the risk to go.

---

I have been fortunate to travel all over the world, and that is in my top 3 trips. The warmth of the people, really getting to see it up close and personal. Lebanon is so beautiful. The biblical history is awesome. Somehow, our hosts got us into this small chapel that most can't access and it was the place where St. Paul and St. Peter had their last meeting. You can ski in the morning and be at the beach in the afternoon. The food...oh, the food! Great wine too! (that is why we were there). Our friends fled when all this broke out. Thankfully , most have homes in Europe, but they are so worried about their beautiful homes getting bombed. Once this settles. I'd highly recommend. I can tell you where to stay and what to do.

---

Concur on Lebanon. Was actually surprised at how great of a city Beirut was. If you haven't already, I recommend Morocco as well.

---

I have and it is wonderful.

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

It's helping them keep their demographic level of superiority in a cruel ethnic struggle.

And it's forcing Palestinians (at least some) to abandon the idea of having a life in Gaza.

Every time a Palestinian moves to the West it's a win for Israel.

Because at the end of the day Israelis want the Arabs gone to Europe and America and they want to settle the land.

[Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich (left) and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir (right) have advocated for the mass relocation of Palestinians outside of Gaza to make way for Israeli settlers]

---

Muslims have one of the highest birth rates in the world.

.

---

Not really…not in that part of the world.

Secular Israelis have above replacement fertility rates

Ultra-Orthodox Jews have a sky high 7.0 fertility rate.

Palestinians have a fertility rate similar to secular Jews (a little higher) but their rate continues to fall.

And Israel has 9 million people while Palestine (West Ban & Gaza) has only 5.5 million.

The really high total fertility rates in Israel are among the ultra-orthodox, who are mostly Ashkenazi.

But even secular Israeli Jews have TFRs > 2.0.

In Israel, the government and the media want the majority ethnicity to have many babies, so they do.https://t.co/FjE4HseAQT https://t.co/KMiANzyG3O

— Steve Sailer (@Steve_Sailer) January 22, 2019

Here's Hasidic fertility rates in America and Israel. Nit strictly identical measures of course, but it seems Hasidic fertility is higher in Israel. pic.twitter.com/yjEfuBa0GR

— Lyman Stone 石來民 🦬🦬🦬 (@lymanstoneky) March 2, 2022

Jewish,Arab fertility rates in Israel on par for first time
both groups now give birth to an average of 3.13 childrehttps://t.co/M5UFDjGtbS

— Spatel (@Rjrasva) May 26, 2017

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

It's helping them keep their demographic level of superiority in a cruel ethnic struggle.

And it's forcing Palestinians (at least some) to abandon the idea of having a life in Gaza.

Every time a Palestinian moves to the West it's a win for Israel.

Because at the end of the day Israelis want the Arabs gone to Europe and America and they want to settle the land.

[Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich (left) and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir (right) have advocated for the mass relocation of Palestinians outside of Gaza to make way for Israeli settlers]

---

Muslims have one of the highest birth rates in the world.

.

---

The high Muslim fertility rate/birth rate is a mirage.

The Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region is in demographic decline.

Fertility is in massive decline across all countries in the region.

You can only get a big Muslim fertility rate by factoring in sub-Saharan Africans.

And sub-Saharan Africans have a lot to kids as Christians, Muslims, or animists…though that is coming down as well.

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

What is this peace of which you speak . . . .

About those Hamas rape stories….

Read our reporting here: https://t.co/LC0iOkq3dL

— The Intercept (@theintercept) February 29, 2024

A far more serious issue is that Raz Cohen, a Israeli special forces vet and mercenary, has dramatically changed his testimony multiple times. He's a fabulist who cannot be taken seriously. https://t.co/ZNyB1chgbD

— Aaron Maté (@aaronjmate) January 5, 2024

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

What is this peace of which you speak . . . .

---

Israel needs peace almost as badly as the people in what's left of Gaza. There military mobilization hurts their economy and religious tourism is way down. And everyone in that region needed tourism to return after 2 years of Covid restrictions.

Even a bad peace is better than the useless deaths of another 25.000 people.