sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

What is this peace of which you speak . . . .

---

Israel needs peace almost as badly as the people in what's left of Gaza. There military mobilization hurts their economy and religious tourism is way down. And everyone in that region needed tourism to return after 2 years of Covid restrictions.

Even a bad peace is better than the useless deaths of another 25.000 people.

---

But there was never peace.. Hamas plotted Oct 7 for years while pretending to work with Israel. Hamas not only is unapologetic but brags they will do it again and go even further. Israel cannot have that kind of enemy next door. So Israel sees this as either Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, even if that means destruction of most of Gaza and tens of thousands of deaths.

---

Israel has go choice but to have that kind of enemy' next door.

As they simply can't kill all the Muslims who hate them.

It is time to see things as they are and can't be changed .

Make peace while they still can .

BREAKING: The U.S. will begin air-dropping humanitarian aid into Gaza, President Biden announces one day after 115 Palestinians were killed around an aid convoy. https://t.co/abwENjZCs9

— The Associated Press (@AP) March 1, 2024

Send Israel money and weapons with which to kill their enemies.

Then air drop a little aid to the survivors.

Call me a cynic but I doubt American Muslims are going to buy into Biden's BS.

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

Israel has one every war they have been in:

1948 when almost the entire Arab world united to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. We know how that ended.
1967 when Israel was threatened on all sides and defeated all their enemies in less than a week. It's called the Six Day War for a reason. They also conquered the Sinai (later returned to Egypt in a peace deal, the 1979 Camp David Accords); the Golan Heights (taken from Syria & essential to their security); and Judea & Samaria ( usually called the West Bank) along with eastern Jerusalem do t to gay their capital would be a more complete city.
1973 when Syria & Egypt attacked on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar & Israel survived with some help from Nixon.
etc

We have no reason to believe they won't win this war as well. All the antisemites everywhere have is Hamas propaganda.

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

What is this peace of which you speak . . . .

---

Israel needs peace almost as badly as the people in what's left of Gaza. There military mobilization hurts their economy and religious tourism is way down. And everyone in that region needed tourism to return after 2 years of Covid restrictions.

Even a bad peace is better than the useless deaths of another 25.000 people.

---

But there was never peace.. Hamas plotted Oct 7 for years while pretending to work with Israel. Hamas not only is unapologetic but brags they will do it again and go even further. Israel cannot have that kind of enemy next door. So Israel sees this as either Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, even if that means destruction of most of Gaza and tens of thousands of deaths.

---

Israel has go choice but to have that kind of enemy' next door.

As they simply can't kill all the Muslims who hate them.

It is time to see things as they are and can't be changed .

Make peace while they still can .

---

Prior to October 7, Israel had peaceful relations with Egypt (Camp David Accords), Jordan (Oslo Accords), & several other Arab countries, including some of the Gulf States (the Abraham Accords). They were set to add Saudi Arabia to the list since the Saudis are concerned about Iran. The radical Islamofascists are just part of the calculation & do not define all Muslims. Peace certainly is possible and on Israel's terms since many countries in the region recognize it as better than the reckless barbarism of Iran & their proxies.

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

Israel has one every war they have been in:

1948 when almost the entire Arab world united to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. We know how that ended.
1967 when Israel was threatened on all sides and defeated all their enemies in less than a week. It's called the Six Day War for a reason. They also conquered the Sinai (later returned to Egypt in a peace deal, the 1979 Camp David Accords); the Golan Heights (taken from Syria & essential to their security); and Judea & Samaria ( usually called the West Bank) along with eastern Jerusalem do t to gay their capital would be a more complete city.
1973 when Syria & Egypt attacked on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar & Israel survived with some help from Nixon.
etc

We have no reason to believe they won't win this war as well. All the antisemites everywhere have is Hamas propaganda.

---

1967 was when they attacked the USS Liberty intentionally and killed 34 crew members and wounded another 171,. They flew back around to shoot at the lifeboats. Our greatest ally.

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

Israel has one every war they have been in:

1948 when almost the entire Arab world united to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. We know how that ended.
1967 when Israel was threatened on all sides and defeated all their enemies in less than a week. It's called the Six Day War for a reason. They also conquered the Sinai (later returned to Egypt in a peace deal, the 1979 Camp David Accords); the Golan Heights (taken from Syria & essential to their security); and Judea & Samaria ( usually called the West Bank) along with eastern Jerusalem do t to gay their capital would be a more complete city.
1973 when Syria & Egypt attacked on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar & Israel survived with some help from Nixon.
etc

We have no reason to believe they won't win this war as well. All the antisemites everywhere have is Hamas propaganda.

---

1967 was when they attacked the USS Liberty intentionally and killed 34 crew members and wounded another 171,. They flew back around to shoot at the lifeboats. Our greatest ally.

---

Captain of the USS Liberty was later awarded the Medal of Honer.



In secret.

A different take on Iran, Israel, and Jews.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/irans-jewish-population-belies-claims-tehrans-genocidal-intent

Iran operates under Sharia law, like several other Gulf states. Under Sharia, there are allowances for the people of the book, those Muslims believe worship the same god (Jews & Christian's) but they are second class citizens and treated as such with strict limitations & extra taxes. They are also ultra rigid with punishing violations of their laws. Few Americans or westerners would be comfortable in that environment.

historian said:

---

Iran operates under Sharia law, like several other Gulf states. Under Sharia, there are allowances for the people of the book, those Muslims believe worship the same god (Jews & Christian's) but they are second class citizens and treated as such with strict limitations & extra taxes. They are also ultra rigid with punishing violations of their laws. Few Americans or westerners would be comfortable in that environment.

---

I've never been to Israel so I dont know firsthand but Jews do not like Christians. In fact the Likud proposed a law to arrest and imprison Christians who are spreading their faith. Ive seen multiple videos of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims there. Muslims at least respect Jeus as a prophet whereas Jews despise Christ.

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

What is this peace of which you speak . . . .

---

Israel needs peace almost as badly as the people in what's left of Gaza. There military mobilization hurts their economy and religious tourism is way down. And everyone in that region needed tourism to return after 2 years of Covid restrictions.

Even a bad peace is better than the useless deaths of another 25.000 people.

---

But there was never peace.. Hamas plotted Oct 7 for years while pretending to work with Israel. Hamas not only is unapologetic but brags they will do it again and go even further. Israel cannot have that kind of enemy next door. So Israel sees this as either Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, even if that means destruction of most of Gaza and tens of thousands of deaths.

---

Israel has go choice but to have that kind of enemy' next door.

As they simply can't kill all the Muslims who hate them.

It is time to see things as they are and can't be changed .

Make peace while they still can .

---

They have solid Muslim relationships. It's only the nut jobs that want to destroy them. Again I ask, what does "peace" look like with Hamas still intact next door?

I have never been to Israel either but I know plenty of people, Christian's, who have visited at different times over the past 30+ years. They always talked about how wonderful it was to go there and see the places where Jesus and the disciples went. I don't recall any negative stories about the locals, Muslims of Jews. But I think most of them were only there for a few days, maybe a week or two at most.

If you want to understand Israeli strategy, you need to read my article.

For PR reasons, they have to deny what they're doing. But sometimes the plan slips through.

I don't have to worry about "global opinion" so can honestly explain the strategy here. https://t.co/q81Ny2PKGS pic.twitter.com/z2lucj9de5

— Richard Hanania (@RichardHanania) March 2, 2024

IDF soldiers sentenced to 20 days in prison for making hot dogs on Shabbat. The pair were caught by a third soldier who entered the kitchen and saw them committing the act.https://t.co/V4p2GLDuSy

— The Jerusalem Post (@Jerusalem_Post) March 2, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

---

IDF soldiers sentenced to 20 days in prison for making hot dogs on Shabbat. The pair were caught by a third soldier who entered the kitchen and saw them committing the act.https://t.co/V4p2GLDuSy

— The Jerusalem Post (@Jerusalem_Post) March 2, 2024

---

They dont have Hebrew nationals over there?

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

IDF soldiers sentenced to 20 days in prison for making hot dogs on Shabbat. The pair were caught by a third soldier who entered the kitchen and saw them committing the act.https://t.co/V4p2GLDuSy

— The Jerusalem Post (@Jerusalem_Post) March 2, 2024

---

They dont have Hebrew nationals over there?

---

I was think the same thing….can they not even eat kosher hotdogs?

Literally jail time for hot dog eating lol

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

IDF soldiers sentenced to 20 days in prison for making hot dogs on Shabbat. The pair were caught by a third soldier who entered the kitchen and saw them committing the act.https://t.co/V4p2GLDuSy

— The Jerusalem Post (@Jerusalem_Post) March 2, 2024

---

They dont have Hebrew nationals over there?

---

I was think the same thing….can they not even eat kosher hotdogs?

Literally jail time for hot dog eating lol

---

I bet its for breaking the Sabbath. They need a Shaboos goy to make their Hebrew national dogs.

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

IDF soldiers sentenced to 20 days in prison for making hot dogs on Shabbat. The pair were caught by a third soldier who entered the kitchen and saw them committing the act.https://t.co/V4p2GLDuSy

— The Jerusalem Post (@Jerusalem_Post) March 2, 2024

---

They dont have Hebrew nationals over there?

---

I see what you did there. Best dogs, ever!

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

Iran operates under Sharia law, like several other Gulf states. Under Sharia, there are allowances for the people of the book, those Muslims believe worship the same god (Jews & Christian's) but they are second class citizens and treated as such with strict limitations & extra taxes. They are also ultra rigid with punishing violations of their laws. Few Americans or westerners would be comfortable in that environment.

---

I've never been to Israel so I dont know firsthand but Jews do not like Christians. In fact the Likud proposed a law to arrest and imprison Christians who are spreading their faith. Ive seen multiple videos of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims there. Muslims at least respect Jeus as a prophet whereas Jews despise Christ.

---

You should go, seriously. It's a wonderful place. And throughout Israel, Israelis are beyond welcoming to Christians.

The proposed law you mention was a stupid political ploy and was immediately denounced by everyone.

Yes, there are such random videos on the internet, as there are random videos of about everything.

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

---

Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

---

Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

---

Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

---

What is this peace of which you speak . . . .

---

Israel needs peace almost as badly as the people in what's left of Gaza. There military mobilization hurts their economy and religious tourism is way down. And everyone in that region needed tourism to return after 2 years of Covid restrictions.

Even a bad peace is better than the useless deaths of another 25.000 people.

---

But there was never peace.. Hamas plotted Oct 7 for years while pretending to work with Israel. Hamas not only is unapologetic but brags they will do it again and go even further. Israel cannot have that kind of enemy next door. So Israel sees this as either Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, even if that means destruction of most of Gaza and tens of thousands of deaths.

---

Israel has go choice but to have that kind of enemy' next door.

As they simply can't kill all the Muslims who hate them.

It is time to see things as they are and can't be changed .

Make peace while they still can .

---

They have solid Muslim relationships. It's only the nut jobs that want to destroy them. Again I ask, what does "peace" look like with Hamas still intact next door?Effect

---

Effectively the same peace they've shared over the decades.

A violent one.

sombear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

Iran operates under Sharia law, like several other Gulf states. Under Sharia, there are allowances for the people of the book, those Muslims believe worship the same god (Jews & Christian's) but they are second class citizens and treated as such with strict limitations & extra taxes. They are also ultra rigid with punishing violations of their laws. Few Americans or westerners would be comfortable in that environment.

---

I've never been to Israel so I dont know firsthand but Jews do not like Christians. In fact the Likud proposed a law to arrest and imprison Christians who are spreading their faith. Ive seen multiple videos of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims there. Muslims at least respect Jeus as a prophet whereas Jews despise Christ.

---

You should go, seriously. It's a wonderful place. And throughout Israel, Israelis are beyond welcoming to Christians.

---

The one Christian I know who lives full time in Bethlehem says the Jews treat local Christians far worse than the Muslims do.

He refers to the Jews in Israel as ' devils '.and is outraged about the carnage in Gaza.

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

Iran operates under Sharia law, like several other Gulf states. Under Sharia, there are allowances for the people of the book, those Muslims believe worship the same god (Jews & Christian's) but they are second class citizens and treated as such with strict limitations & extra taxes. They are also ultra rigid with punishing violations of their laws. Few Americans or westerners would be comfortable in that environment.

---

I've never been to Israel so I dont know firsthand but Jews do not like Christians. In fact the Likud proposed a law to arrest and imprison Christians who are spreading their faith. Ive seen multiple videos of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims there. Muslims at least respect Jeus as a prophet whereas Jews despise Christ.

---

You should go, seriously. It's a wonderful place. And throughout Israel, Israelis are beyond welcoming to Christians.

---

The one Christian I know who lives full time in Bethlehem says the Jews treat local Christians far worse than the Muslims do.

He refers to the Jews in Israel as ' devils '.and is outraged about the carnage in Gaza.

---

I can't speak broadly with first-hand knowledge on the treatment of local Christians.

But, as you know, Bethlehem is in the West Bank, and Palestinian Christians align closely with Palestinian Muslims on Israel/Palestine and other political issues. So your friend's views don't surprise me at all. That is by far the predominant view. Totally understandable.

It is difficult to generalize relative to local Christians in Israel itself. Anecdotally, everyone that I have ever talked to is proud to live in Israel and talks glowingly about their treatment in Israel. They are more concerned with the Muslims in Israel - citizens and visitors/workers.

Statistically, Arab Christians in Israel (which is the strong Christin majority) are highly educated and successful professionally. And there are far more Muslim on Christian criminal incidents than there are Jew on Christian incidents in Israel.

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

Iran operates under Sharia law, like several other Gulf states. Under Sharia, there are allowances for the people of the book, those Muslims believe worship the same god (Jews & Christian's) but they are second class citizens and treated as such with strict limitations & extra taxes. They are also ultra rigid with punishing violations of their laws. Few Americans or westerners would be comfortable in that environment.

---

I've never been to Israel so I dont know firsthand but Jews do not like Christians. In fact the Likud proposed a law to arrest and imprison Christians who are spreading their faith. Ive seen multiple videos of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims there. Muslims at least respect Jeus as a prophet whereas Jews despise Christ.

---

You should go, seriously. It's a wonderful place. And throughout Israel, Israelis are beyond welcoming to Christians.

---

The one Christian I know who lives full time in Bethlehem says the Jews treat local Christians far worse than the Muslims do.

He refers to the Jews in Israel as ' devils '.and is outraged about the carnage in Gaza.

---

I can't speak broadly with first-hand knowledge on the treatment of local Christians.

But, as you know, Bethlehem is in the West Bank, and Palestinian Christians align closely with Palestinian Muslims on Israel/Palestine and other political issues. So your friend's views don't surprise me at all. That is by far the predominant view. Totally understandable.

It is difficult to generalize relative to local Christians in Israel itself. Anecdotally, everyone that I have ever talked to is proud to live in Israel and talks glowingly about their treatment in Israel. They are more concerned with the Muslims in Israel - citizens and visitors/workers.

Statistically, Arab Christians in Israel (which is the strong Christin majority) are highly educated and successful professionally. And there are far more Muslim on Christian criminal incidents than there are Jew on Christian incidents in Israel.

---

We just disagree.

I believe Israel has the right to exist.

Don't have the right to kill 20 Muslims for every one Jew just because no one is stopping them.

Candidly I am shocked the war hasn't already expanded.

But one has to assume it eventually will if a ceasefire isn't reached.

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

Iran operates under Sharia law, like several other Gulf states. Under Sharia, there are allowances for the people of the book, those Muslims believe worship the same god (Jews & Christian's) but they are second class citizens and treated as such with strict limitations & extra taxes. They are also ultra rigid with punishing violations of their laws. Few Americans or westerners would be comfortable in that environment.

---

I've never been to Israel so I dont know firsthand but Jews do not like Christians. In fact the Likud proposed a law to arrest and imprison Christians who are spreading their faith. Ive seen multiple videos of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims there. Muslims at least respect Jeus as a prophet whereas Jews despise Christ.

---

You should go, seriously. It's a wonderful place. And throughout Israel, Israelis are beyond welcoming to Christians.

---

The one Christian I know who lives full time in Bethlehem says the Jews treat local Christians far worse than the Muslims do.

He refers to the Jews in Israel as ' devils '.and is outraged about the carnage in Gaza.

---

I can't speak broadly with first-hand knowledge on the treatment of local Christians.

But, as you know, Bethlehem is in the West Bank, and Palestinian Christians align closely with Palestinian Muslims on Israel/Palestine and other political issues. So your friend's views don't surprise me at all. That is by far the predominant view. Totally understandable.

It is difficult to generalize relative to local Christians in Israel itself. Anecdotally, everyone that I have ever talked to is proud to live in Israel and talks glowingly about their treatment in Israel. They are more concerned with the Muslims in Israel - citizens and visitors/workers.

Statistically, Arab Christians in Israel (which is the strong Christin majority) are highly educated and successful professionally. And there are far more Muslim on Christian criminal incidents than there are Jew on Christian incidents in Israel.

---

We just disagree.

I believe Israel has the right to exist.

Don't have the right to kill 20 Muslims for every one Jew just because no one is stopping them.

Candidly I am shocked the war hasn't already expanded.

But one has to assume it eventually will if a ceasefire isn't reached.

---

You've been consistent and argued your position very well.

Proportionality in war is a difficult issue to say the least.

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

historian said:

---

Iran operates under Sharia law, like several other Gulf states. Under Sharia, there are allowances for the people of the book, those Muslims believe worship the same god (Jews & Christian's) but they are second class citizens and treated as such with strict limitations & extra taxes. They are also ultra rigid with punishing violations of their laws. Few Americans or westerners would be comfortable in that environment.

---

I've never been to Israel so I dont know firsthand but Jews do not like Christians. In fact the Likud proposed a law to arrest and imprison Christians who are spreading their faith. Ive seen multiple videos of Jews spitting on Christian pilgrims there. Muslims at least respect Jeus as a prophet whereas Jews despise Christ.

---

You should go, seriously. It's a wonderful place. And throughout Israel, Israelis are beyond welcoming to Christians.

---

The one Christian I know who lives full time in Bethlehem says the Jews treat local Christians far worse than the Muslims do.

He refers to the Jews in Israel as ' devils '.and is outraged about the carnage in Gaza.

---

I can't speak broadly with first-hand knowledge on the treatment of local Christians.

But, as you know, Bethlehem is in the West Bank, and Palestinian Christians align closely with Palestinian Muslims on Israel/Palestine and other political issues. So your friend's views don't surprise me at all. That is by far the predominant view. Totally understandable.

It is difficult to generalize relative to local Christians in Israel itself. Anecdotally, everyone that I have ever talked to is proud to live in Israel and talks glowingly about their treatment in Israel. They are more concerned with the Muslims in Israel - citizens and visitors/workers.

Statistically, Arab Christians in Israel (which is the strong Christin majority) are highly educated and successful professionally. And there are far more Muslim on Christian criminal incidents than there are Jew on Christian incidents in Israel.

---

I believe Israel has the right to exist.

---

Sure.

But they can't keep violating international law by keeping and endless military occupation of Palestine going.

It's not legally, morally, and economically sustainable.

The vast majority of the countries on earth now recognize the Palestinian State.

Event the U.S. government has now come out and said there must be a two state solution.

[The State of Palestine has been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012. As of 2 June 2023, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine.]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Stop with the Hamas propaganda already.

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Then our own Secretary of Defrnse is promoting Hamas propaganda.

Otherwise one cannot not reasonably support killing over 25,000 people to avenge the murder of 1400 .

Enough blood has been shed

Time to call for a ceasefire.

If Israel wishes to continue the war, let them do so without the complicity of US taxpayers.

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Considering our own Secretaries of State & of Defense are more concerned with gender ideology than promoting American interests that might be the case. Biden himself has been trying to force Israel to accept a ceasefire, essentially to surrender to Hamas. So that unfortunate failure by our fascist leaders is quite possible.

Enough with the Islamofascist propaganda. It's a war between civilization & barbarism. The genocidal Hamas must be defeated. Israel must win this war for the sake of everyone.

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Israel can not win this war.

They can only lose the peace.

And slaughtering an additional 50,000 people won't change anything.

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What is this peace of which you speak . . . .

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Israel needs peace almost as badly as the people in what's left of Gaza. There military mobilization hurts their economy and religious tourism is way down. And everyone in that region needed tourism to return after 2 years of Covid restrictions.

Even a bad peace is better than the useless deaths of another 25.000 people.

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But there was never peace.. Hamas plotted Oct 7 for years while pretending to work with Israel. Hamas not only is unapologetic but brags they will do it again and go even further. Israel cannot have that kind of enemy next door. So Israel sees this as either Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, even if that means destruction of most of Gaza and tens of thousands of deaths.

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Israel has go choice but to have that kind of enemy' next door.

As they simply can't kill all the Muslims who hate them.

It is time to see things as they are and can't be changed .

Make peace while they still can .

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They have solid Muslim relationships. It's only the nut jobs that want to destroy them. Again I ask, what does "peace" look like with Hamas still intact next door?Effect

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Effectively the same peace they've shared over the decades.

A violent one.

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That happens when your neighbors want to destroy your country and kill every last person. Hamas literally is genocidal.

https://stream.org/mark-levin-rebukes-biden-for-weakening-on-israel-support-to-appease-islamists Mark Levin Rebukes Biden for Weakening on Israel Support to Appease 'Islamists'

historian said:

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https://stream.org/mark-levin-rebukes-biden-for-weakening-on-israel-support-to-appease-islamists Mark Levin Rebukes Biden for Weakening on Israel Support to Appease 'Islamists'

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Israel has killed 30,000+ Palestinians….half of them women and children.

They have destroyed 70% of the free standing homes in the entire Gaza Strip.

What more bloodshed to you want? 100,000 dead Palestinians? All the homes destroyed?

[In all, 30,035 people have been killed so far, the ministry said Thursday, adding that the number of injured is over 70,000. Israel is facing mounting pressure globally to halt the conflict, but its campaign in Gaza has retained the support of the United States, its key ally and largest supplier of military aid.]

I have already said this several times but apparently you don't pay attention: every single death in this war is totally because of Hamas. They are responsible for EVERY SINGLE DEATH. Second, I don't know how many have died but I'm certainly not going to believe the propaganda of the genocidal Islamofascists. Finally, they don't care about those people. They use them as human shields all the time and prevented them from leaving when the IDF provided an opportunity. It is NOT an exaggeration to hold Hamas responsible.

In fact, Hamas wants more of these people dead because of the propaganda uses. They can count on plenty of antisemites, naive fools, or "useful idiots" (to use Lenin's phrase) to spread their lies all over the world. The western media never disappoints because they are also excellent propagandists and members of at least one of those three groups.

historian said:

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I have already said this several times but apparently you don't pay attention: every single death in this war is totally because of Hamas. They are responsible for EVERY SINGLE DEATH.

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So the IDF could genocide 2 million Gaza residents (women and children)

And you would be on here blaming Hamas for the Israeli war crimes?

You are making ridiculous assumptions based upon the lies of terrorists

historian said:

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You are making ridiculous assumptions based upon the lies of terrorists

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You think the UN is a lying terrorist organization?

[The humanitarian situation in Gaza has been termed a "crisis" and a "catastrophe". The entire population in the Gaza Strip is classified in Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) Phase 3 - Crisis, or above. 50% of the population is in IPC Phase 4 - Emergency, and 25% is in IPC Phase 5 - Catastrophe. More than 23,000 have been killed. As a result of Israel's blockade, Gaza faces shortages of fuel, food, medication, water, and medical supplies. The blockade resulted in a 90% drop in electricity availability, impacting hospital power supplies, sewage plants, and shutting down desalination plants that provide drinking water. According to WHO, 27 out of 35 hospitals in Gaza were shut down by 23 November 2023. On 13 October, UNRWA commissioner Philippe Lazzarini said, "The scale and speed of the unfolding humanitarian crisis is bone-chilling".]

Redbrickbear said:

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historian said:

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You are making ridiculous assumptions based upon the lies of terrorists

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You think the UN is a lying terrorist organization?

[The humanitarian situation in Gaza has been termed a "crisis" and a "catastrophe". The entire population in the Gaza Strip is classified in Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) Phase 3 - Crisis, or above. 50% of the population is in IPC Phase 4 - Emergency, and 25% is in IPC Phase 5 - Catastrophe. More than 23,000 have been killed. As a result of Israel's blockade, Gaza faces shortages of fuel, food, medication, water, and medical supplies. The blockade resulted in a 90% drop in electricity availability, impacting hospital power supplies, sewage plants, and shutting down desalination plants that provide drinking water. According to WHO, 27 out of 35 hospitals in Gaza were shut down by 23 November 2023. On 13 October, UNRWA commissioner Philippe Lazzarini said, "The scale and speed of the unfolding humanitarian crisis is bone-chilling".]

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Actually, yes.

The UN often does lie: they are a bunch of corrupt politicians & bureaucrats much like our own govt and with plenty of scandals over the years to prove it. Also, the UN has a relief organization that has bee. Aiding Hamas in this war and even participated in the October 7 terrorist attacks and were holding hostages after.

You describe them accurately, although it wasn't your intention.

historian said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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historian said:

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You are making ridiculous assumptions based upon the lies of terrorists

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You think the UN is a lying terrorist organization?

[The humanitarian situation in Gaza has been termed a "crisis" and a "catastrophe". The entire population in the Gaza Strip is classified in Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) Phase 3 - Crisis, or above. 50% of the population is in IPC Phase 4 - Emergency, and 25% is in IPC Phase 5 - Catastrophe. More than 23,000 have been killed. As a result of Israel's blockade, Gaza faces shortages of fuel, food, medication, water, and medical supplies. The blockade resulted in a 90% drop in electricity availability, impacting hospital power supplies, sewage plants, and shutting down desalination plants that provide drinking water. According to WHO, 27 out of 35 hospitals in Gaza were shut down by 23 November 2023. On 13 October, UNRWA commissioner Philippe Lazzarini said, "The scale and speed of the unfolding humanitarian crisis is bone-chilling".]

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Actually, yes.

.

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Uh ok

So how are we supposed to have a discussion about the war if the only people you believe are Mossad and the IDF?