historian said:

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For their entire history as a modem State, Israel has been surrounded by enemies who want to destroy them & annihilate them. They are also vastly outnumbered & outgunned. That requires a greater than usual military strength.

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Why is that America's problem?

The Zionists were offered Madagascar. They chose Palestine. They made their bed, now let them sleep in it.

Today Israel is on much better terms with some of their neighbors. Egypt in Jordan now have good relations with Israel. Saudi Arabia was heading g towards joining the Abraham accords. They still might. Remember a couple weeks ago when Iran launched 300 missiles & drones at Israel? Jordan & Saudi Arabia help to shoot them down.

Arab countries were helping to defend Israel. It was in their interest to do so.

That's is another bogus comparison. The crusader states were created by the Europeans during the crusades when they conquered parts of the holy land. The modern state of Israel is just a renewal of the ancient state of Israel. The land is theirs, given to them by God.

The Jews have a greater historical claim on Israel than the United States has on America, the British have on Britain, the French have on France, and many other peoples in the world have on their territories.

historian said:

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The Jews have a greater historical claim on Israel than the ..the British have on Britain, the French have on France, and many other peoples in the world have on their territories.

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That is an absolutely wild take.

Large parts of the modern British and French populations are descended directly from and have continuously inhabited the same area since the Iron Age.

They have far MORE claim to those nations than to modern Israelis who showed up in the country 70 years ago.

British and French don't have a 2,000 year gap like modern Jewish populations in the area.

historian said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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historian said:

---

For their entire history as a modem State, Israel has been surrounded by enemies who want to destroy them & annihilate them. They are also vastly outnumbered & outgunned. That requires a greater than usual military strength.

---

Why is that America's problem?

The Zionists were offered Madagascar. They chose Palestine. They made their bed, now let them sleep in it.

---

Why would the Jewish people choose Madagascar instead of their ancient homeland given them to them by God?????

---

The point is that the jews/zionists at the time were floating ideas like Uganda or Madagascar and even Texas for a possible Jewish homeland

That alone is interesting…

The_barBEARian said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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muddybrazos said:

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boognish_bear said:

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We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

I doubt most British and French have strong Celtic roots. It's mostly Germanic and later groups but I could be wrong. Regardless, they were not given their lands directly by God. Israel was. That overrides everything else.

Redbrickbear said:

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historian said:

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The_barBEARian said:

---

historian said:

---

For their entire history as a modem State, Israel has been surrounded by enemies who want to destroy them & annihilate them. They are also vastly outnumbered & outgunned. That requires a greater than usual military strength.

---

Why is that America's problem?

The Zionists were offered Madagascar. They chose Palestine. They made their bed, now let them sleep in it.

---

Why would the Jewish people choose Madagascar instead of their ancient homeland given them to them by God?????

---

The point is that the jews/zionists at the time were floating ideas like Uganda or Madagascar and even Texas for a possible Jewish homeland

That alone is interesting…

---

Curious how you use only part of my statement and left out the part about the Nazis.

An accurate definition of Zionism is the desire of the Jews to return to their ancient homeland the land given them by God. Zionism has nothing to do with Madagascar or Texas or anywhere else. Those ideas are silly distractions.

historian said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

historian said:

---

For their entire history as a modem State, Israel has been surrounded by enemies who want to destroy them & annihilate them. They are also vastly outnumbered & outgunned. That requires a greater than usual military strength.

---

Why is that America's problem?

The Zionists were offered Madagascar. They chose Palestine. They made their bed, now let them sleep in it.

---

Why would the Jewish people choose Madagascar instead of their ancient homeland given them to them by God?????

---

The point is that the jews/zionists at the time were floating ideas like Uganda or Madagascar and even Texas for a possible Jewish homeland

That alone is interesting…

---

An accurate definition of Zionism is the desire of the Jews to return to their ancient homeland the land given them by God. Zionism has nothing to do with Madagascar or Texas or anywhere else. Those ideas are silly distractions.

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Except that those early Zionists were literally thinking of setting up shop in Galveston or Uganda of eslewhere

Zionism was about a Jewish homeland sure…but they seem to have been open to going somewhere other than Palestine

historian said:

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I apologize if my frustration seemed like an attack.

I much prefer to keep these discussions civil.

---

Nicely done

+ 1

Some might have chosen to settle in America or elsewhere but that's not Zionism. The term is clearly defined and it has always been about the land God gave their ancestor Abraham and on through the generations. Zionism, properly defined, has never been about anywhere else. As an organized movement it began in the mid-19th century under Theodor Herzl and he was clear about what he wanted.

Now, since Jews have been persecuted all through history, they have settled many different places, almost everywhere. If they were Zionist's, their ultimate goal was to settle in their ancient homeland even if they lived somewhere else. In modern times, with the state of Israel firmly established, the term has come to mean support for the state of Israel. That's relatively short period of time.

sombear said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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muddybrazos said:

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boognish_bear said:

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We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

---

a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

---

a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

---

Israel gives, or did, give, the US an allie in the Med and ME. Along with Saudi/Baharain/UAE a base in an important part of the world. But, Biden and Dems don't value that area, after all wins and sun will be the answer.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

---

a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

---

Israel gives, or did, give, the US an allie in the Med and ME. Along with Saudi/Baharain/UAE a base in an important part of the world. But, Biden and Dems don't value that area, after all wins and sun will be the answer.

---

I would say that being allies with Egypt (about 46 times bigger in size and with 100 million more people) is far more important for the United States.

Let's be honest that US support for Israel is based on internal U.S. political views/opinions and has little to do with actual geo-strategic concerns.

Israel simply does not offer much that other players in the region don't offer…and many offer much more

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

---

a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

---

100% correct

nein51 said:

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Except Egypt isn't a strong ally. They have been utterly worthless as a military partner in the region. I also don't trust Egypt at all. Like 0%. Like almost everyone in that region they benefit from us way more than we benefit from them.

And if it ever hits the fan I am absolutely certain Israel would be worth 10 Egypts as a wartime partner in capability and desire.

Israel offers vastly superior military capabilities to all of the other players in the region. Every other standing military in the area is a joke. There is a reason Israel keeps bulldozing them when push comes to shove.

---

What Egypt has that interests the US is the Suez Canal and tourism, in that order. Anything else is small potatoes in benefit for the US.

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

---

a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

---

Israel gives, or did, give, the US an allie in the Med and ME. Along with Saudi/Baharain/UAE a base in an important part of the world. But, Biden and Dems don't value that area, after all wins and sun will be the answer.

---

I would say that being allies with Egypt (about 46 times bigger in size and with 100 million more people) is far more important for the United States.

Let's be honest that US support for Israel is based on internal U.S. political views/opinions and has little to do with actual geo-strategy concerns.

Israel simply does not offer much that other players in the region don't offer…and many offer much more

---

I disagree, but regardless, we give Egypt about as much economic aid as we give Israel.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

---

a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

---

Israel gives, or did, give, the US an allie in the Med and ME. Along with Saudi/Baharain/UAE a base in an important part of the world. But, Biden and Dems don't value that area, after all wins and sun will be the answer.

---

I would say that being allies with Egypt (about 46 times bigger in size and with 100 million more people) is far more important for the United States.

Let's be honest that US support for Israel is based on internal U.S. political views/opinions and has little to do with actual geo-strategy concerns.

Israel simply does not offer much that other players in the region don't offer…and many offer much more

---

I disagree, but regardless, we give Egypt about as much economic aid as we give Israel.

---

We need to start turning focus to China. At Pearl Harbor today. If you go, stay and watch movie on what happened. The similarities are eerie...

"THEY FOUGHT TOGETHER AS BROTHERS IN ARMS; THEY DIED TOGETHER AND NOW THEY SLEEP SIDE BY SIDE. TO THEM WE HAVE A SOLEMN OBLIGATION- THE OBLIGATION TO INSURE THAT THEIR SACRIFICE WILL HELP TO MAKE THIS A BETTER AND SAFER WORLD IN WHICH TO LIVE."

FLEET ADMIRAL CHESTER W. NIMITZ, USN

The Missouri is worth seeing.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

---

a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

---

Israel gives, or did, give, the US an allie in the Med and ME. Along with Saudi/Baharain/UAE a base in an important part of the world. But, Biden and Dems don't value that area, after all wins and sun will be the answer.

---

I would say that being allies with Egypt (about 46 times bigger in size and with 100 million more people) is far more important for the United States.

Let's be honest that US support for Israel is based on internal U.S. political views/opinions and has little to do with actual geo-strategy concerns.

Israel simply does not offer much that other players in the region don't offer…and many offer much more

---

I disagree, but regardless, we give Egypt about as much economic aid as we give Israel.

---

Is not a big part of that bribe money so that Egypt says on peaceful terms with Israel?

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

---

Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

---

I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

---

Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

---

Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

---

Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

---

a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

---

Israel gives, or did, give, the US an allie in the Med and ME. Along with Saudi/Baharain/UAE a base in an important part of the world. But, Biden and Dems don't value that area, after all wins and sun will be the answer.

---

I would say that being allies with Egypt (about 46 times bigger in size and with 100 million more people) is far more important for the United States.

Let's be honest that US support for Israel is based on internal U.S. political views/opinions and has little to do with actual geo-strategy concerns.

Israel simply does not offer much that other players in the region don't offer…and many offer much more

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I disagree, but regardless, we give Egypt about as much economic aid as we give Israel.

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Is not a big part of that bribe money so that Egypt says on peaceful terms with Israel?

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There are a couple posters who know that relationship much better than me, but I'd say it's a combination of that, helping Egypt combat its own extremism/terrorism, and economic benefit.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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nein51 said:

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Except Egypt isn't a strong ally. They have been utterly worthless as a military partner in the region. I also don't trust Egypt at all. Like 0%. Like almost everyone in that region they benefit from us way more than we benefit from them.

And if it ever hits the fan I am absolutely certain Israel would be worth 10 Egypts as a wartime partner in capability and desire.

Israel offers vastly superior military capabilities to all of the other players in the region. Every other standing military in the area is a joke. There is a reason Israel keeps bulldozing them when push comes to shove.

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What Egypt has that interests the US is the Suez Canal

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And that is enough

Its super important

historian said:

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That's is a nether bogus comparison. The crusader states were created by the Europeans during the crusades well they conquered parts of the holy land. The modern state of Israel is just a renewal of the ancient state of Israel. The land is theirs, given to them by God.

The Jews have a greater historical claim on Israel than the United States has on America, the British have on Britain, the French have on France, and many other peoples in the world have on their territories.

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Understand that the Mosaic covenant with the nation of Israel was a conditional covenant.

"Now if you will obey me and keep my covenant, you will be my own special treasure from among all the peoples on earth; for all the earth belongs to me."
- Exodus 19:5

Their disobedience began with wandering in the desert for 40 years and ended with the Crucifixion of Christ, the destruction of the Temple, and their expulsion from the land. That contract was nullified.

If you are going back to the Abrahamic promise from Genesis 13, well guess what...both Isaac and Ishmael were Abraham's offspring and you run into a bigger problem. Again, that promise was fulfilled in the entire region.

"Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east and west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted. Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you"
- Genesis 13:14-17

There really is no Biblical case for Christian Zionism. The modern state of Israel is a secular creation of the UN that marches in lockstep with all the worst instincts of globalization. If it has any role in prophecy going forward it is merely as a stage set to welcome the Antichrist to a rebuilt satanic temple.

Turkeys sole benefit is having airspace and runways right where refueling needs to occur. It makes a terrific launching pad to the ME.

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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muddybrazos said:

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boognish_bear said:

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We stand by allies, we don’t second guess them. Biden’s dithering on Israel weapons is bad policy and a terrible message to Israel, our allies, and the world.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 8, 2024

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Why? Israel cant do a war without us paying for it? F that, call the Rothschilds and get some money.

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I do wonder how Israel and can be a 1st world state with a strong economy and nuclear weapons…but it just can't seem to fund a military without massive infusions of American taxpayer cash

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Keep in mind virtually all "aid" is military funding the vast majority of which Israel must use to purchase back from U.S. and it's a low % of Israel's defense budget. Israel is surrounded by hostiles, and it takes a lot. Could they do it in their own? Sure. But we help many of our allies without the same reciprocal requirements. And we get a lot from Israel in return - intel, tech, and economic.

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Please explicitly detail what we recieve in return from Israel. I want hard numbers and citations.

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Impossible to quantify intel and related sharing of course. Trade with Israel is about 1% is all U.S. trade. IT Software/Hardware, medical devices, and pharma are some of the more important imports.

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a good thumbnail sketch.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-us-gains-israel-alliance

But that really doesn't scratch the surface. Having allies who are in constant conflict, on constant high alert gives your defense contractors real-time feedback on weapons system development. Giving your equipment to people who will immediately use it in real-world conflict find the weaknesses in design, limitations on logistics, and needs for new capabilities. Plus, having outlets to sell those systems helps keep your defense contractors financially alive, so they'll be available for your own needs when your own war breaks out.

And don't undersell the value of the intel sharing. Israel runs human source operations in places we rarely every have any. islamic states are very, very tough places to operate for non-natives....

The return we get on what we give Israel per year is very high quality. It's quite rare when your proxies are as capable as you are. Israel is a defacto screening force which engages targets that would otherwise be primarily focused against us.

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Israel gives, or did, give, the US an allie in the Med and ME. Along with Saudi/Baharain/UAE a base in an important part of the world. But, Biden and Dems don't value that area, after all wins and sun will be the answer.

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I would say that being allies with Egypt (about 46 times bigger in size and with 100 million more people) is far more important for the United States.

Let's be honest that US support for Israel is based on internal U.S. political views/opinions and has little to do with actual geo-strategic concerns.

Israel simply does not offer much that other players in the region don't offer…and many offer much more

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What a profoundly blind assumption.

The most loyal ally you have is the small country, the isolated country, the people who need you for reasons beyond the amount you spend on them. Israel is all of that and more. Also quite productive. Look what they've done with $3b/yr versus what Egypt has one with $1.5b.

Not one regional state other than Turkey could offer us anything remotely approaching the value and loyalty we get from Israel, in no small part because every one of those regional states, including Turkey, would turn Congress into a mosque if they could.

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There is a lot of emotion tied up in Israel. You cannot discount that "emotional" and commitment investment. To now look at other Nations and say, shift from Israel to Turkey or Saudi disregards the political position. That investment weighs heavy.

Today in Parliament I called for the creation of a Palestinian family visa scheme. This should bring Palestinian refugees to safety in the UK through a new safe and legal route, and reunite families desperate for their loved ones to reach safety. pic.twitter.com/eJyUeiNz2Q

— Sam Tarry MP (@SamTarry) May 13, 2024

Realitybites said:

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historian said:

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That's is a nether bogus comparison. The crusader states were created by the Europeans during the crusades well they conquered parts of the holy land. The modern state of Israel is just a renewal of the ancient state of Israel. The land is theirs, given to them by God.

The Jews have a greater historical claim on Israel than the United States has on America, the British have on Britain, the French have on France, and many other peoples in the world have on their territories.

---

Understand that the Mosaic covenant with the nation of Israel was a conditional covenant.

"Now if you will obey me and keep my covenant, you will be my own special treasure from among all the peoples on earth; for all the earth belongs to me."
- Exodus 19:5

Their disobedience began with wandering in the desert for 40 years and ended with the Crucifixion of Christ, the destruction of the Temple, and their expulsion from the land. That contract was nullified.

If you are going back to the Abrahamic promise from Genesis 13, well guess what...both Isaac and Ishmael were Abraham's offspring and you run into a bigger problem. Again, that promise was fulfilled in the entire region.

"Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east and west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted. Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you"
- Genesis 13:14-17

There really is no Biblical case for Christian Zionism. The modern state of Israel is a secular creation of the UN that marches in lockstep with all the worst instincts of globalization. If it has any role in prophecy going forward it is merely as a stage set to welcome the Antichrist to a rebuilt satanic temple.

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The modern state of Israel was created by Jews with the blessing of the UN and they won their independence by fighting against the Arab nations surrounding them. This is an important distinction. Also, the UN's goal was 2 states with one for the Arabs of that region. The Palestinians rejected it because they refused to accept the Jewish state. Hence the war.

Turkey is been a less reliable ally over the past few years, a trend that is continuing.

UN revises Gaza death toll, almost 50% less women and children killed than previously reported.

Hamas’ death toll figures have been disputed by Israel, yet they have been quoted by media, humanitarian organizations and world leaders, including Biden.

pic.twitter.com/bk8j0XwXXJ

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) May 13, 2024

nein51 said:

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Turkeys sole benefit is having airspace and runways right where refueling needs to occur. It makes a terrific launching pad to the ME.

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Turks outclass anything in their neighborhood, militarily........