Most Arabs living in Israel are not under gun point. They are citizens with rights & opportunities. The sane ones recognize that living under Israeli rule is better than in any of the Arab countries. Israel has more liberty, greater economic opportunity, and more stability than any other country in the region. The irony is that those other countries would have a chance to be much better off if they focused on real issues and were not obsessed with destroying Israel. Some have recognized that and developed stable relationships with Israel. The Abram Accords are the latest example. They were better off for it.

historian said:

---

Most Arabs living in Israel are not under gun point. They are citizens with rights & opportunities.

---

Certainly true

But the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza obviously don't feel the same about the israeli military occupation.

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

1. You don't know that all of them are like that or feel that way.

2. And that possibility is why Israel has nuclear weapons and a 1st world (American taxpayer funded army)

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

1. Of course I don't know that. No one does. I'm generalizing because that's all anyone can do. But I can draw reasonable conclusions from the news reports and credible analyses, rarely by Leftists, over the past few decades that I've been paying any attention.
2. Israel's military is top notch partly because of American support their entire modern history but also because of their own intelligence, good leadership, and determination. A people & an army will be highly motivated when outnumbered, outgunned, & surrounded by enemies who want yo to what Hitler failed to do: annihilate all of them.

G to hide are all good reasons for the US to support them. Another big reason is that they stabilize the region more than anyone else. For economic (oil) & strategic reasons that is in everyone's interest.

FLBear5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Self Defense??? Nobody threatened Russia, not since Hitler! No, this is ego. He is pissed former Iron Block Nations prefer the EU and NATO. There is no threat to Russia proper. This is empire and flailing to maintain the past. No nation in their right mind would choose Russia over EU. This is acting out on the world stage by Putin .

Threaten Russia, give me a break. The threat to Russia is not NATO invading it is internal, Sibetia and the east leaving....

---

Not sure why you were responding to me (perhaps you meant Sam), but I concur that this wasn't a self defense play by Russia, and I'm trying to shake out why that card is being played by certain posters.

---

Sorry, couldn't find post u responded to. I agree. There are no threats to Russ a in Europe. Putin better focus on East of the Urals, that is where threats are.

---

NATO on Russia's border is a threat for the same reason that Russia on NATO's border is a threat. The reality is a little more complicated, but that's the simple answer.

Realitybites said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

There are no threats to Russ a in Europe. Putin better focus on East of the Urals, that is where threats are.

---

Deputy National Security Adviser Robert Gates wrote, Cheney "wanted to see the dismantlement not only of the Soviet Union and the Russian empire but of Russia itself"

Can't possibly see why a large nuclear armed nation would find such sentiments threatening particularly in light of a multi-decade long expansion of NATO towards its border.

We have explained to the Russia! Russia! Russia! crowd why this war didn't magically arise out of thin air a couple of years ago.

---

Russia would like the breakup of America, and America has nukes. Are they foolish, too?

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Self Defense??? Nobody threatened Russia, not since Hitler! No, this is ego. He is pissed former Iron Block Nations prefer the EU and NATO. There is no threat to Russia proper. This is empire and flailing to maintain the past. No nation in their right mind would choose Russia over EU. This is acting out on the world stage by Putin .

Threaten Russia, give me a break. The threat to Russia is not NATO invading it is internal, Sibetia and the east leaving....

---

Not sure why you were responding to me (perhaps you meant Sam), but I concur that this wasn't a self defense play by Russia, and I'm trying to shake out why that card is being played by certain posters.

---

Sorry, couldn't find post u responded to. I agree. There are no threats to Russ a in Europe. Putin better focus on East of the Urals, that is where threats are.

---

NATO on Russia's border is a threat for the same reason that Russia on NATO's border is a threat. The reality is a little more complicated, but that's the simple answer.

---

Uh, no. Elementary false equivalence. NATO doesn't invade people; Russia does. Putin knows both parts of that sentence very well. In fact, his invasion of Ukraine counted upon it. ZERO chance he would have invaded if he thought Nato would respond directly.

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Self Defense??? Nobody threatened Russia, not since Hitler! No, this is ego. He is pissed former Iron Block Nations prefer the EU and NATO. There is no threat to Russia proper. This is empire and flailing to maintain the past. No nation in their right mind would choose Russia over EU. This is acting out on the world stage by Putin .

Threaten Russia, give me a break. The threat to Russia is not NATO invading it is internal, Sibetia and the east leaving....

---

Not sure why you were responding to me (perhaps you meant Sam), but I concur that this wasn't a self defense play by Russia, and I'm trying to shake out why that card is being played by certain posters.

---

Sorry, couldn't find post u responded to. I agree. There are no threats to Russ a in Europe. Putin better focus on East of the Urals, that is where threats are.

---

NATO on Russia's border is a threat for the same reason that Russia on NATO's border is a threat. The reality is a little more complicated, but that's the simple answer.

---

Uh, no. Elementary false equivalence. NATO doesn't invade people; Russia does. Putin knows both parts of that sentence very well. In fact, his invasion of Ukraine counted upon it. ZERO chance he would have invaded if he thought Nato would respond directly.

---

Since when did you think the Russian threat was limited to direct invasion? Don't play dumb.

Russia is prepared for a direct response, though. NATO not so much.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Self Defense??? Nobody threatened Russia, not since Hitler! No, this is ego. He is pissed former Iron Block Nations prefer the EU and NATO. There is no threat to Russia proper. This is empire and flailing to maintain the past. No nation in their right mind would choose Russia over EU. This is acting out on the world stage by Putin .

Threaten Russia, give me a break. The threat to Russia is not NATO invading it is internal, Sibetia and the east leaving....

---

Not sure why you were responding to me (perhaps you meant Sam), but I concur that this wasn't a self defense play by Russia, and I'm trying to shake out why that card is being played by certain posters.

---

Sorry, couldn't find post u responded to. I agree. There are no threats to Russ a in Europe. Putin better focus on East of the Urals, that is where threats are.

---

NATO on Russia's border is a threat for the same reason that Russia on NATO's border is a threat. The reality is a little more complicated, but that's the simple answer.

---

Uh, no. Elementary false equivalence. NATO doesn't invade people; Russia does. Putin knows both parts of that sentence very well. In fact, his invasion of Ukraine counted upon it. ZERO chance he would have invaded if he thought Nato would respond directly.

---

Since when did you think the Russian threat was limited to direct invasion? Don't play dumb.

Russia is prepared for a direct response, though. NATO not so much.

---

the only limits to Russian invasion of neighbors is whether nor not they assess they can get by with it.

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Self Defense??? Nobody threatened Russia, not since Hitler! No, this is ego. He is pissed former Iron Block Nations prefer the EU and NATO. There is no threat to Russia proper. This is empire and flailing to maintain the past. No nation in their right mind would choose Russia over EU. This is acting out on the world stage by Putin .

Threaten Russia, give me a break. The threat to Russia is not NATO invading it is internal, Sibetia and the east leaving....

---

Not sure why you were responding to me (perhaps you meant Sam), but I concur that this wasn't a self defense play by Russia, and I'm trying to shake out why that card is being played by certain posters.

---

Sorry, couldn't find post u responded to. I agree. There are no threats to Russ a in Europe. Putin better focus on East of the Urals, that is where threats are.

---

NATO on Russia's border is a threat for the same reason that Russia on NATO's border is a threat. The reality is a little more complicated, but that's the simple answer.

---

Uh, no. Elementary false equivalence. NATO doesn't invade people; Russia does. Putin knows both parts of that sentence very well. In fact, his invasion of Ukraine counted upon it. ZERO chance he would have invaded if he thought Nato would respond directly.

---

Since when did you think the Russian threat was limited to direct invasion? Don't play dumb.

Russia is prepared for a direct response, though. NATO not so much.

---

the only limits to Russian invasion of neighbors is whether nor not they assess they can get by with it.

---

The enemy only understands force, blah, blah, blah. If so they understand more than we do.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Self Defense??? Nobody threatened Russia, not since Hitler! No, this is ego. He is pissed former Iron Block Nations prefer the EU and NATO. There is no threat to Russia proper. This is empire and flailing to maintain the past. No nation in their right mind would choose Russia over EU. This is acting out on the world stage by Putin .

Threaten Russia, give me a break. The threat to Russia is not NATO invading it is internal, Sibetia and the east leaving....

---

Not sure why you were responding to me (perhaps you meant Sam), but I concur that this wasn't a self defense play by Russia, and I'm trying to shake out why that card is being played by certain posters.

---

Sorry, couldn't find post u responded to. I agree. There are no threats to Russ a in Europe. Putin better focus on East of the Urals, that is where threats are.

---

NATO on Russia's border is a threat for the same reason that Russia on NATO's border is a threat. The reality is a little more complicated, but that's the simple answer.

---

Uh, no. Elementary false equivalence. NATO doesn't invade people; Russia does. Putin knows both parts of that sentence very well. In fact, his invasion of Ukraine counted upon it. ZERO chance he would have invaded if he thought Nato would respond directly.

---

Since when did you think the Russian threat was limited to direct invasion? Don't play dumb.

Russia is prepared for a direct response, though. NATO not so much.

---

the only limits to Russian invasion of neighbors is whether nor not they assess they can get by with it.

---

The enemy only understands force, blah, blah, blah. If so they understand more than we do.

---

recent events in Ukraine clearly indicate that Russia has a problem understanding how & when to use force.

here, we see Hamas targeting UN relief. You see, Hamas will try to destroy what it cannot control, to include free food & medicine for its own people.

If I see one more headline about how Israel needs to do more to allow aid convoys into Gaza ... what am I talking about, I will see this headline at least 20 times a week until everyone in Gaza has to go on Mounjaro https://t.co/NlSnQdjXqs

— John Podhoretz (@jpodhoretz) June 26, 2024

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

---

See Oct 7

---

An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

---

See Oct 7

---

An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.

---

That is the same logic that allows our current Border policies. 1 million is not a threat to 360 million, what's the problem...

So the only time a full response is allowed is if the Nation will cease to exist. Chamberlain would have loved you...

You have to be trolling. You are backing Hamas and Putin? I guess Iran got screwed and should attack whoever they decide today. The Yemenis? N Korea? You have the start of an all-star team of the most evil, blood thirsty leaders in the world.

Lead Off Yemen
Batting 2nd Hamas
Batting 3rd Kim Yo-Jon
Clean Up Xi
Batting 5th Putin...
Batting 6th Assad
Batting 7th Kim Jon Un
Batting 8th Mullah Hibatullah Akhundzada
Batting 9th Maduro

Well done, maybe you can bring back Stalin to Coach them...

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

---

See Oct 7

---

An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.

---

Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.

---

1.) Though bloody...9/11 was not an existential threat to the USA....it was simply a large scale terrorist attack.

A motley crew of Saudi Arabian jihadists can inflict pain on the USA...but have no way of bringing down the USA

American woke up on 9/12 still having 300 million people, the largest economy on earth, and the most powerful military ever seen on planet earth.

2. Pearl Harbor was different because it was the opening attack in a war launched by a very powerful industrial nation against the USA with a large Pacific fleet, strong economy, a very powerful military and 75 million person population.

3. You have to stop this hysteria that Israel is endlessly and forever under existential threat...even after the USA funds it into the billions every year with advanced weaponry

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

---

See Oct 7

---

An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.

---

Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.

---

1.) Though bloody...9/11 was not an existential threat to the USA....it was simply a large scale terrorist attack.

A motley crew of Saudi Arabian jihadists can inflict pain on the USA...but have no way of bringing down the USA

American woke up on 9/12 still having 300 million people, the largest economy on earth, and the most powerful military ever seen on planet earth.

2. Pearl Harbor was different because it was the opening attack in a war launched by a very powerful industrial nation against the USA with a large Pacific fleet, strong economy, a very powerful military and 75 million person population.

3. You have to stop this hysteria that Israel is endlessly and forever under existential threat...even after the USA funds it into the billions every year with advanced weaponry

---

We declared war on Afghanistan.
We declared war on Japan.

Israel is under existential attack..
US support isn't forever (look at the division in the Democrat Party).
US isn't forever (we have serious problems). Rome wasn't forever, Great Britain wan't forever.
The Third Reich wasn't forever

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

---

See Oct 7

---

An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.

---

Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.

---

1.) Though bloody...9/11 was not an existential threat to the USA....it was simply a large scale terrorist attack.

A motley crew of Saudi Arabian jihadists can inflict pain on the USA...but have no way of bringing down the USA

American woke up on 9/12 still having 300 million people, the largest economy on earth, and the most powerful military ever seen on planet earth.

2. Pearl Harbor was different because it was the opening attack in a war launched by a very powerful industrial nation against the USA with a large Pacific fleet, strong economy, a very powerful military and 75 million person population.

3. You have to stop this hysteria that Israel is endlessly and forever under existential threat...even after the USA funds it into the billions every year with advanced weaponry

---

1. We declared war on Afghanistan.


2. Israel is under existential attack..
3. US support isn't forever (look at the division in the Democrat Party).
4. US isn't forever (we have serious problems). Rome wasn't forever, Great Britain wan't forever.
The Third Reich wasn't forever

---

1. Superfluous point...we are discussing existential threat level.

a single terrorist attack in October is not going to bring the nation down.

2. The Palestinians (a poor rather powerless people they are occupying in the West Bank against international law) are not an existential military threat to the nuclear power of Israel and its mighty army and economy.

3.. USA has been funneling billions in taxpayer money to Israel since 1946 (that is basically forever in terms of DC policy)

https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts

4.. Of course...no State is forever (something to think about has you let millions of 3rd worlders invade your own nation as you worry about Israel)

Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

---

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Now Israel is not under an existential threat?

---

If you are looking for a possible existential threat to the modern State of Israel you might want to read up about its secular vs ultra-orthodox internal politics issues.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/25/world/middleeast/israel-military-ultra-orthodox-jews-supreme-court.html#:~:text=Israeli%20Military%20Must%20Draft%20Ultra,Minister%20Benjamin%20Netanyahu's%20wartime%20government.

Ultra orthodox are 14% of the population but do no serve in the military or really contribute to the economy.

And by the year 2065 they could possibly be a majority since there growth rate is so fast.

Now the Supreme Court of Israel has said they have to serve in the army...something they have always refused to do...that could rip the country apart

https://www.timesofisrael.com/haredim-are-fastest-growing-population-will-be-16-of-israelis-by-decades-end/

Massive issues are going to be taking place in the future of Israel between the secular vs ultra orthodox

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

---

See Oct 7

---

An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.

---

Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.

---

1.) Though bloody...9/11 was not an existential threat to the USA....it was simply a large scale terrorist attack.

A motley crew of Saudi Arabian jihadists can inflict pain on the USA...but have no way of bringing down the USA

American woke up on 9/12 still having 300 million people, the largest economy on earth, and the most powerful military ever seen on planet earth.

2. Pearl Harbor was different because it was the opening attack in a war launched by a very powerful industrial nation against the USA with a large Pacific fleet, strong economy, a very powerful military and 75 million person population.

3. You have to stop this hysteria that Israel is endlessly and forever under existential threat...even after the USA funds it into the billions every year with advanced weaponry

---

1. We declared war on Afghanistan.


2. Israel is under existential attack..
3. US support isn't forever (look at the division in the Democrat Party).
4. US isn't forever (we have serious problems). Rome wasn't forever, Great Britain wan't forever.
The Third Reich wasn't forever

---

1. Superfluous point...we are discussing existential threat level.

a single terrorist attack in October is not going to bring the nation down. Not superfluous. We are discussing the reaction of the country attacked.

2. The Palestinians (a poor rather powerless people they are occupying in the West Bank against international law) are not an existential military threat to the nuclear power of Israel and its mighty army and economy. Palestinians are proxy for Iran & Iran is an existential threat to Israel.

3.. USA has been funneling billions in taxpayer money to Israel since 1946 (that is basically forever in terms of DC policy) Where are the pro-palestinian protesters coming from? In which party are they gaining influence?

https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts

4.. Of course...no State is forever (something to think about has you let millions of 3rd worlders invade your own nation as you worry about Israel) I can worry about 2 things at the same time

---

Israel is under existential attack.
Look at the quality of our political leadership, a clear sign of decay

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

---

See Oct 7

---

An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.

---

Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.

---

1.) Though bloody...9/11 was not an existential threat to the USA....it was simply a large scale terrorist attack.

A motley crew of Saudi Arabian jihadists can inflict pain on the USA...but have no way of bringing down the USA

American woke up on 9/12 still having 300 million people, the largest economy on earth, and the most powerful military ever seen on planet earth.

2. Pearl Harbor was different because it was the opening attack in a war launched by a very powerful industrial nation against the USA with a large Pacific fleet, strong economy, a very powerful military and 75 million person population.

3. You have to stop this hysteria that Israel is endlessly and forever under existential threat...even after the USA funds it into the billions every year with advanced weaponry

---

1. We declared war on Afghanistan.


2. Israel is under existential attack..
3. US support isn't forever (look at the division in the Democrat Party).
4. US isn't forever (we have serious problems). Rome wasn't forever, Great Britain wan't forever.
The Third Reich wasn't forever

---

1. Not superfluous. We are discussing the reaction of the country attacked.

2. . Palestinians are proxy for Iran & Iran is an existential threat to Israel.

3.. Where are the pro-palestinian protesters coming from? In which party are they gaining influence?

https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts

4.. I can worry about 2 things at the same time

---

Israel is under existential attack.
Look at the quality of our political leadership, a clear sign of decay

---

1. Israel can pound Hamas to dust...that is there right.

But Hamas in Gaza or the PLO in the West Bank are not existential threats to the mighty Israeli military. They just don't have the economic power (and never will) to take on Israel

At best they are a minor threat.

2. ok....if Iran disappears tomorrow the issues between Palestine and Israel will remain. And a big issue of that conflict is the West Bank occupation by Israel that does not end.

3. Important to remember that both Arabs and Jews in the USA vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic party...neither votes for the Republicans.

https://newrepublic.com/article/179279/arab-americans-democrats-michigan-consistency-justice

https://www.associationforjewishstudies.org/podcasts/why-most-american-jews-are-democrats-transcript

4. The GOP leadership does a lot to support Israel....really nothing to secure our borders because they like the cheap labor for their donor class.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

historian said:

---

Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?

---

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.

---

See Oct 7

---

An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.

---

That is the same logic that allows our current Border policies. 1 million is not a threat to 360 million, what's the problem...

---

Well its not really one 1 million....

Its 1 million allowed in annually (legally) will millions more illegally allowed in each year.

50 million 3rd worlders settling inside the USA since 1970....at the very least...that number could be even higher in reality since we just don't know.

That is a real invasion.

Now if Hamas could kill 1200 Israeli citizens as week then we could start talking existential threat level.

As it is they can do it one time (after years of planning it) then they get blow away and half the Gaza strip gets leveled.

Heck the IDF even got their plans before the attack and had a change to stop it... but laughed it off since they thought it impossible for them to even carry out such an attack.

Hamas got lucky one time...and now is getting smashed.

[Israeli officials obtained Hamas's battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html#:~:text=Israeli%20officials%20obtained%20Hamas's%20battle,for%20Hamas%20to%20carry%20out.

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

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Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.

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They have had multiple opportunities since the 1940s and rejected every single one. The Palestinians want a whole lot more. They real mean it when the day, "from the river to the sea" and they want to kill every Jew in the process. They are not civilized and they do not think rationally so it is idiotic to treat them as such.

The GOP's generational gap on Israel is genuinely remarkable: According to Pew, younger Republicans (18-29) are 42 points less likely to sympathize with Israel than older Republicans (65+).

Seems like this should be a bigger story? pic.twitter.com/XzPGcETk3y

— Nate Hochman (@njhochman) June 26, 2024

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

---

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.

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Do you ever get sick of defending the indefensible? We are talking defending Hamas... Can you go any lower? Maybe a cult killer that wasn't loved as a child...

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You can be such a dishonest tard sometimes.

No one defended Hamas

It was a discussion about if the rock throwing Palestinians are an true existential threat to the nuclear armed Israeli state….they aren't

But as alway FL just like the war in Ukraine…if you feel so strongly about the war you are welcome to get on a plane and fly over to fight yourself

Hamas might not be an existential threat in the complete sense but Israel must treat them as such because of their genocidal fanaticism and the endless supplies of advanced weapons they get from Iran plus food and other supplies from idiots in the West. They never give up and never stop until forced to. Israel cannot treat them as legitimate because they aren't and any break they get will only be used to prepare for the next attack.

Also, history has a multitude of examples of great power plowing to much weaker powers: the US beating the greatest power on earth to win independence, Vietnam defeating the US 50 years ago, and many, many others.

historian said:

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Hamas might not be an existential threat in the complete sense but Israel must treat them as such because of their genocidal fanaticism and the endless supplies of advanced weapons they get from Iran .

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And I think Israel is treating them as such.

Hamas as an organization won't exist in a meaningful way after this war.

Hell Gaza itself might not.


I do wonder if you have an opinion on if Israel carried any blame for helping to create Hamas in the first place?

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

---

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.

---

Do you ever get sick of defending the indefensible? We are talking defending Hamas... Can you go any lower? Maybe a cult killer that wasn't loved as a child...

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You are such a dishonest tard

No one defended Hamas

It was a discussion about if the rock throwing Palestinians are an true existential threat to the nuclear armed Israeli state….they aren't

But as alway FL just like the war in Ukraine…if you feel so strongly about the war you are welcome to get on a plane and fly over to fight yourself

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That is disingenuous. The whole point of your post is that Israel should stand down and not continue. It is just a passive aggressive way of doing it. Hamas slaughters Israeli citizens, literally with knives, and Israel needs to defend its response because the several million Palestinians can't "end" Israel. That is now the bar, if they can't destroy the nation stand down. Right?

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What is disingenuous is you pretending that American tax payers need to spend $100 billion dollars (and go deeper into debt) on a Jewish racialist State than is NUCLEAR armed and can take care of itself.

And has proven that many times over since '48

If you care so much about a Jewish vs Arab race war in the low rent Middle East then you should head over there….God knows the upside might be it could rid us of your posting