Netanyahu said "we are at war,"

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historian
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 1:03a, 6/27/24
We don't know how the war will end or what any of it will look like when it does. It's silly to make those kinds of predictions based upon such ignorance.

No, I'm not gonna to blame the victim for the existence of Hamas. Mohammad is more to blame than any Jew that has ever existed, & he's been dead for over 1200 years.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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Realitybites
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 7:11a, 6/27/24
FLBear5630 said:
That is disingenuous. The whole point of your post is that Israel should stand down and not continue. It is just a passive aggressive way of doing it. Hamas slaughters Israeli citizens, literally with knives, and Israel needs to defend its response because the several million Palestinians can't "end" Israel. That is now the bar, if they can't destroy the nation stand down. Right?


If the two extremes of Israeli response to the attack were (A) Do Nothing and (B) Kill everyone in Gaza, the acceptable endpoint lies somewhere between those two extremes, correct? If so, where is that endpoint?
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historian
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2:53p, 6/27/24
Hamas can end the war tomorrow by freeing all hostages and laying down their weapons. That won't happen because they are genocidal fanatics.
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whiterock
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In reply to Osodecentx • 3:38p, 6/27/24
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
historian said:
Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?


Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.
See Oct 7


An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.
Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.

and in both cases we ran our armies thru the countries responsible like shyte thru a goose, for YEARS....
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whiterock
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 3:41p, 6/27/24
Redbrickbear said:
historian said:
Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?


1. You don't know that all of them are like that or feel that way.

2. And that possibility is why Israel has nuclear weapons and a 1st world (American taxpayer funded army)

Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.
You have reasoned yourself into a delusion.
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whiterock
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 3:44p, 6/27/24
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
historian said:
Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?


Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.
See Oct 7


An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.
Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.


1.) Though bloody...9/11 was not an existential threat to the USA....it was simply a large scale terrorist attack.

A motley crew of Saudi Arabian jihadists can inflict pain on the USA...but have no way of bringing down the USA

American woke up on 9/12 still having 300 million people, the largest economy on earth, and the most powerful military ever seen on planet earth.

2. Pearl Harbor was different because it was the opening attack in a war launched by a very powerful industrial nation against the USA with a large Pacific fleet, strong economy, a very powerful military and 75 million person population.

3. You have to stop this hysteria that Israel is endlessly and forever under existential threat...even after the USA funds it into the billions every year with advanced weaponry
"existential threat" is the only threat that justifies war?

Billions of dollars of wealth were lost ins the 9/11 attacks. So are we to just endure such terror attacks whenever because they only affect the wealthy and do not propose an occupying army?

you have simply quit thinking here.
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historian
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In reply to whiterock • 3:49p, 6/27/24
It's even starker for Israel given the proximity and fanaticism of their enemy. Hamas might have no serious chance of destroying Israel but they won't stop trying until they do. That's an argument for complete obliteration. Israel has every reason to refuse to accept more attacks like October 7. It's for wimps like Biden & Europe's leaders to say they should, they don't face the same kk d if threat. Then again, considering how many Islamofascists western countries have allowed into their countries, they could be in a real existential crisis in time, especially since the immigrants keep having babies while westerners keep killing theirs. Demographics do natter.
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muddybrazos
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In reply to whiterock • 3:50p, 6/27/24
whiterock said:
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
historian said:
Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?


Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.
See Oct 7


An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.
Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.


1.) Though bloody...9/11 was not an existential threat to the USA....it was simply a large scale terrorist attack.

A motley crew of Saudi Arabian jihadists can inflict pain on the USA...but have no way of bringing down the USA

American woke up on 9/12 still having 300 million people, the largest economy on earth, and the most powerful military ever seen on planet earth.

2. Pearl Harbor was different because it was the opening attack in a war launched by a very powerful industrial nation against the USA with a large Pacific fleet, strong economy, a very powerful military and 75 million person population.

3. You have to stop this hysteria that Israel is endlessly and forever under existential threat...even after the USA funds it into the billions every year with advanced weaponry
"existential threat" is the only threat that justifies war?

Billions of dollars of wealth were lost ins the 9/11 attacks. So are we to just endure such terror attacks whenever because they only affect the wealthy and do not propose an occupying army?

you have simply quit thinking here.
Trillions were spent by the American taxpayers going to Iraq and they had nothing to do with 9/11. The only ones who benefitted from that were Israel and US govt contractors. Weird how that works.
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Aliceinbubbleland
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5:18p, 6/27/24
If Hamas gave up any remaining hostages I'm not sure that solves the bigger issue. It would stop the bombing and military advances in Gaza. The settlements in the West Bank area flash point and Hezbollah is unpredictable.

Interesting that their Supreme Court told the military they must draft Ultra-OIrthodox Jews into service.

Reminds me of my basic training and the hostility endured
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 5:48p, 6/27/24
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.
Do you ever get sick of defending the indefensible? We are talking defending Hamas... Can you go any lower? Maybe a cult killer that wasn't loved as a child...


You are such a dishonest tard

No one defended Hamas

It was a discussion about if the rock throwing Palestinians are an true existential threat to the nuclear armed Israeli state….they aren't

But as alway FL just like the war in Ukraine…if you feel so strongly about the war you are welcome to get on a plane and fly over to fight yourself


That is disingenuous. The whole point of your post is that Israel should stand down and not continue. It is just a passive aggressive way of doing it. Hamas slaughters Israeli citizens, literally with knives, and Israel needs to defend its response because the several million Palestinians can't "end" Israel. That is now the bar, if they can't destroy the nation stand down. Right?


What is disingenuous is you pretending that American tax payers need to spend $100 billion dollars (and go deeper into debt) on a Jewish racialist State than is NUCLEAR armed and can take care of itself.

And has proven that many times over since '48

If you care so much about a Jewish vs Arab race war in the low rent Middle East then you should head over there….God knows the upside might be it could rid us of your posting
Now you shift to an American budget/policy question.


Upside? Says the guy defending Putin, Hamas and Assad? You really think you have room to talk about the quality of posts?????? Poor Assad, he has an occupying force after gassing his own people? Poor guy is put out by UN forces after using Saran 86 times, but Red defends him telling us the big bad US is invading Syria...
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to whiterock • 6:15p, 6/27/24
whiterock said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
historian said:
Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?


Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.
See Oct 7


An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.
Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.

and in both cases we ran our armies thru the countries responsible like shyte thru a goose, for YEARS....


And that was not necessary to our advantage.

Trillions spend, thousands of Americans dead and wounded, and basically back to square one

Taliban back in control of Afghanistan and Iran having defacto control in Iraq

Wonderful
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 6:17p, 6/27/24
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.
Do you ever get sick of defending the indefensible? We are talking defending Hamas... Can you go any lower? Maybe a cult killer that wasn't loved as a child...


You are such a dishonest tard

No one defended Hamas

It was a discussion about if the rock throwing Palestinians are an true existential threat to the nuclear armed Israeli state….they aren't

But as alway FL just like the war in Ukraine…if you feel so strongly about the war you are welcome to get on a plane and fly over to fight yourself


That is disingenuous. The whole point of your post is that Israel should stand down and not continue. It is just a passive aggressive way of doing it. Hamas slaughters Israeli citizens, literally with knives, and Israel needs to defend its response because the several million Palestinians can't "end" Israel. That is now the bar, if they can't destroy the nation stand down. Right?


What is disingenuous is you pretending that American tax payers need to spend $100 billion dollars (and go deeper into debt) on a Jewish racialist State than is NUCLEAR armed and can take care of itself.

And has proven that many times over since '48

If you care so much about a Jewish vs Arab race war in the low rent Middle East then you should head over there….God knows the upside might be it could rid us of your posting
Now you shift to an American budget/policy question.


Upside? Says the guy defending Putin, Hamas and Assad?


You are either massively stupid or just dishonest to the extreme

Link one freaking post were I ever defended Putin, Hamas, or Assad….just one
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muddybrazos
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 7:37p, 6/27/24
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.
Do you ever get sick of defending the indefensible? We are talking defending Hamas... Can you go any lower? Maybe a cult killer that wasn't loved as a child...


You are such a dishonest tard

No one defended Hamas

It was a discussion about if the rock throwing Palestinians are an true existential threat to the nuclear armed Israeli state….they aren't

But as alway FL just like the war in Ukraine…if you feel so strongly about the war you are welcome to get on a plane and fly over to fight yourself


That is disingenuous. The whole point of your post is that Israel should stand down and not continue. It is just a passive aggressive way of doing it. Hamas slaughters Israeli citizens, literally with knives, and Israel needs to defend its response because the several million Palestinians can't "end" Israel. That is now the bar, if they can't destroy the nation stand down. Right?


What is disingenuous is you pretending that American tax payers need to spend $100 billion dollars (and go deeper into debt) on a Jewish racialist State than is NUCLEAR armed and can take care of itself.

And has proven that many times over since '48

If you care so much about a Jewish vs Arab race war in the low rent Middle East then you should head over there….God knows the upside might be it could rid us of your posting
Now you shift to an American budget/policy question.


Upside? Says the guy defending Putin, Hamas and Assad? You really think you have room to talk about the quality of posts?????? Poor Assad, he has an occupying force after gassing his own people? Poor guy is put out by UN forces after using Saran 86 times, but Red defends him telling us the big bad US is invading Syria...
Show some proof that Assad actually gassed his own people. That seemed like a lot of camera tricks and propaganda.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to muddybrazos • 8:47p, 6/27/24
muddybrazos said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.
Do you ever get sick of defending the indefensible? We are talking defending Hamas... Can you go any lower? Maybe a cult killer that wasn't loved as a child...


You are such a dishonest tard

No one defended Hamas

It was a discussion about if the rock throwing Palestinians are an true existential threat to the nuclear armed Israeli state….they aren't

But as alway FL just like the war in Ukraine…if you feel so strongly about the war you are welcome to get on a plane and fly over to fight yourself


That is disingenuous. The whole point of your post is that Israel should stand down and not continue. It is just a passive aggressive way of doing it. Hamas slaughters Israeli citizens, literally with knives, and Israel needs to defend its response because the several million Palestinians can't "end" Israel. That is now the bar, if they can't destroy the nation stand down. Right?


What is disingenuous is you pretending that American tax payers need to spend $100 billion dollars (and go deeper into debt) on a Jewish racialist State than is NUCLEAR armed and can take care of itself.

And has proven that many times over since '48

If you care so much about a Jewish vs Arab race war in the low rent Middle East then you should head over there….God knows the upside might be it could rid us of your posting
Now you shift to an American budget/policy question.


Upside? Says the guy defending Putin, Hamas and Assad? You really think you have room to talk about the quality of posts?????? Poor Assad, he has an occupying force after gassing his own people? Poor guy is put out by UN forces after using Saran 86 times, but Red defends him telling us the big bad US is invading Syria...
Show some proof that Assad actually gassed his own people. That seemed like a lot of camera tricks and propaganda.


86 times?
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muddybrazos
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 7:32a, 6/28/24
FLBear5630 said:
muddybrazos said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.
Do you ever get sick of defending the indefensible? We are talking defending Hamas... Can you go any lower? Maybe a cult killer that wasn't loved as a child...


You are such a dishonest tard

No one defended Hamas

It was a discussion about if the rock throwing Palestinians are an true existential threat to the nuclear armed Israeli state….they aren't

But as alway FL just like the war in Ukraine…if you feel so strongly about the war you are welcome to get on a plane and fly over to fight yourself


That is disingenuous. The whole point of your post is that Israel should stand down and not continue. It is just a passive aggressive way of doing it. Hamas slaughters Israeli citizens, literally with knives, and Israel needs to defend its response because the several million Palestinians can't "end" Israel. That is now the bar, if they can't destroy the nation stand down. Right?


What is disingenuous is you pretending that American tax payers need to spend $100 billion dollars (and go deeper into debt) on a Jewish racialist State than is NUCLEAR armed and can take care of itself.

And has proven that many times over since '48

If you care so much about a Jewish vs Arab race war in the low rent Middle East then you should head over there….God knows the upside might be it could rid us of your posting
Now you shift to an American budget/policy question.


Upside? Says the guy defending Putin, Hamas and Assad? You really think you have room to talk about the quality of posts?????? Poor Assad, he has an occupying force after gassing his own people? Poor guy is put out by UN forces after using Saran 86 times, but Red defends him telling us the big bad US is invading Syria...
Show some proof that Assad actually gassed his own people. That seemed like a lot of camera tricks and propaganda.


86 times?
Your guy Mattis says there's no evidence.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-has-no-evidence-of-syrian-use-of-sarin-gas-mattis-says

U.S. has no evidence of Syrian use of sarin gas, Mattis says
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FLBear5630
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In reply to muddybrazos • 10:10a, 6/28/24
muddybrazos said:
FLBear5630 said:
muddybrazos said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Now Israel is not under an existential threat?
"From the River to the Sea" invite for tea?

Osama said he want to completely destroy the USA and all its people.

Did Al Qaeda actually have the ability or the power to be an existential threat to the USA? No


PS

Most Palestinians just want a State of their own...something the international community agrees with.

They don't all have the same views as Hamas.
Do you ever get sick of defending the indefensible? We are talking defending Hamas... Can you go any lower? Maybe a cult killer that wasn't loved as a child...


You are such a dishonest tard

No one defended Hamas

It was a discussion about if the rock throwing Palestinians are an true existential threat to the nuclear armed Israeli state….they aren't

But as alway FL just like the war in Ukraine…if you feel so strongly about the war you are welcome to get on a plane and fly over to fight yourself


That is disingenuous. The whole point of your post is that Israel should stand down and not continue. It is just a passive aggressive way of doing it. Hamas slaughters Israeli citizens, literally with knives, and Israel needs to defend its response because the several million Palestinians can't "end" Israel. That is now the bar, if they can't destroy the nation stand down. Right?


What is disingenuous is you pretending that American tax payers need to spend $100 billion dollars (and go deeper into debt) on a Jewish racialist State than is NUCLEAR armed and can take care of itself.

And has proven that many times over since '48

If you care so much about a Jewish vs Arab race war in the low rent Middle East then you should head over there….God knows the upside might be it could rid us of your posting
Now you shift to an American budget/policy question.


Upside? Says the guy defending Putin, Hamas and Assad? You really think you have room to talk about the quality of posts?????? Poor Assad, he has an occupying force after gassing his own people? Poor guy is put out by UN forces after using Saran 86 times, but Red defends him telling us the big bad US is invading Syria...
Show some proof that Assad actually gassed his own people. That seemed like a lot of camera tricks and propaganda.


86 times?
Your guy Mattis says there's no evidence.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-has-no-evidence-of-syrian-use-of-sarin-gas-mattis-says

U.S. has no evidence of Syrian use of sarin gas, Mattis says
Mattis was involved in 2013? Also, he said he was not rebutting reports, US didn't have evidence. But, I guess the UN, France, Israel, and the others that say they do were all lying to?????? The UN had a hard on to attack?

As for "my guy"???? I don't give a **** one way or another about Mattis.
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Sam Lowry
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In reply to whiterock • 3:13p, 6/28/24
whiterock said:
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
historian said:
Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?


Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.
See Oct 7


An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.
Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.


1.) Though bloody...9/11 was not an existential threat to the USA....it was simply a large scale terrorist attack.

A motley crew of Saudi Arabian jihadists can inflict pain on the USA...but have no way of bringing down the USA

American woke up on 9/12 still having 300 million people, the largest economy on earth, and the most powerful military ever seen on planet earth.

2. Pearl Harbor was different because it was the opening attack in a war launched by a very powerful industrial nation against the USA with a large Pacific fleet, strong economy, a very powerful military and 75 million person population.

3. You have to stop this hysteria that Israel is endlessly and forever under existential threat...even after the USA funds it into the billions every year with advanced weaponry
"existential threat" is the only threat that justifies war?

Billions of dollars of wealth were lost ins the 9/11 attacks. So are we to just endure such terror attacks whenever because they only affect the wealthy and do not propose an occupying army?

you have simply quit thinking here.
We all know that only expansionist powers fight over wealth. No prospect of annexation means no real harm done. That's the rules-based international order, right?
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whiterock
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 7:57p, 6/28/24
Redbrickbear said:
whiterock said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
Osodecentx said:
Redbrickbear said:
historian said:
Many Arabs in Judea or Samaria are genocidal terrorists you want to kill all Jews. So why should any sane person care what they think?


Israel proper is in no real danger from the Palestinians.
See Oct 7


An attack that lasted a few hours and that cost the lives of 1,143 civilians and was put down rather quickly is no existential threat to a 9 million person state with a first world economy and nuclear weapons.

Heck the IDF killed 1,600 Hamas fighters (more then the Israelis they lost) and was taken by surprise in the attack. Something that will not happen again.

They have now bombed Gaza back to the Stone Age, destroyed half the homes, and killed around 30,000 Palestinians.

It's not real contest between who is stronger.
Attack on 9/11 only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000 Americans.
Attack on Pearl Harbor only lasted a few hours and only killed 3,000.

and in both cases we ran our armies thru the countries responsible like shyte thru a goose, for YEARS....


And that was not necessary to our advantage.

Trillions spend, thousands of Americans dead and wounded, and basically back to square one

Taliban back in control of Afghanistan and Iran having defacto control in Iraq

Wonderful
Japan and Germany were spectacular successes and cost a lot more money than that.

Sometimes, buddy, you gotta go stop a mudhole in someobody's arse just to remind everyone that you can stop mudholes anywhere you want to.

And we are well short of that in Ukraine. We are spending modest amounts of money to help someone else do it to Russia (so we don't have to).
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Realitybites
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6:05a, 6/29/24
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Sometimes, buddy, you gotta go stop a mudhole in someobody's arse just to remind everyone that you can stop mudholes anywhere you want to.


This may be the worst justification for war ever made in human history.
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whiterock
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In reply to Realitybites • 7:59a, 6/29/24
Realitybites said:
Quote:
Sometimes, buddy, you gotta go stop a mudhole in someobody's arse just to remind everyone that you can stop mudholes anywhere you want to.


This may be the worst justification for war ever made in human history.
because you do not understand the subject material. Every now and then, you have to show not only what you can do, but more importantly your willingness to do it without hesitation or remorse.

demonstrations of power prevent unnecessary wars. It's called deterrence.

Japan didn't think it was a superior power to the USA in WWII. It looked at our policy, our leaders, the prevailing public mood of the day, and thought we would not be willing to pay the price to take all those little islands back. LOOK WHAT IT COST to prove them wrong.

Bin Ladin thought he could prevail against us, too. Look what it cost to prove him wrong.
Putin thought he could seize and keep Ukraine. Look what it's costing to prove him wrong.
Cde Kim thought the US had actually signaled that we would not fight to save South Korea. 33k US lives lost to prove him wrong.

I mean, history is so full of examples of what it costs when someone thinks you are not willing to defend your interests. And yet, here you are screaming to our adversaries that you are not willing to fight for anything. In fairness, you are not alone in doing that.......
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Realitybites
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8:13a, 6/29/24
I'm not arguing against the concept of peace through superior firepower.

I'm arguing against your concept of peace through random, unnecessary use of that superior firepower.

Pearl Harbor was a failure of diplomacy. Japan was an allied power during World War 1; 23 years after Armistace Day, they were bombing Pearl. That's the sort of thing that happens when corrupt, unprincipled warmongers are in charge at State.

With regards to Bin Laden, lets keep in mind two things: (1) We trained those terrorists to fly. (2) Even given the 20th century's lengthy history of Islamic terrorism, we insist on importing Muslims by the bushel. Banning Muslims from training in the US and banning them from emigrating would do more for our national security than all our interventions in the middle east combined.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Realitybites • 9:36a, 6/29/24
Realitybites said:
I'm not arguing against the concept of peace through superior firepower.

I'm arguing against your concept of peace through random, unnecessary use of that superior firepower.

Pearl Harbor was a failure of diplomacy. Japan was an allied power during World War 1; 23 years after Armistace Day, they were bombing Pearl. That's the sort of thing that happens when corrupt, unprincipled warmongers are in charge at State.

With regards to Bin Laden, lets keep in mind two things: (1) We trained those terrorists to fly. (2) Even given the 20th century's lengthy history of Islamic terrorism, we insist on importing Muslims by the bushel. Banning Muslims from training in the US and banning them from emigrating would do more for our national security than all our interventions in the middle east combined.
I think a better example is in Europe. The Neutrality Laws almost allowed Europe to totally fall. Roosevelt couldn't help because Congress tied his hands. Knowing that the US was out, allowed Germany to be far more aggressive than they would have. Congress sent the message, have at it we will not interfere. That creates dangerous situations. For better or worse, we DID have a Congress that did its job and set policy. They passed the Neutrality Laws rather than playing the games we have now. At least we knew the position, agree or not.
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historian
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In reply to whiterock • 3:06p, 6/29/24
I think the US death toll in the Korean War was over 50k
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whiterock
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In reply to Realitybites • 7:19a, 6/30/24
Realitybites said:
I'm not arguing against the concept of peace through superior firepower.

I'm arguing against your concept of peace through random, unnecessary use of that superior firepower.
I didn't say anything about "random, unnecessary use" of power. Reagan invaded Grenada for a valid reason. Could have used diplomacy and would have gotten everyone back. But the junta there gave him an excuse to demonstrate our will and ability. The USSR watched that and knew the USA president did not lack of fortitude, that he was willing to lean toward the tips of his skis.

Sometimes, the value of the spectacle of stomping a mudhole in someone's arse exceeds the value of the mudhole itself.

Pearl Harbor was a failure of diplomacy. Japan was an allied power during World War 1; 23 years after Armistace Day, they were bombing Pearl. That's the sort of thing that happens when corrupt, unprincipled warmongers are in charge at State.
So much wrong with this line of thinking. The bottom line is, the root cause of the war was Japan repeatedly invading its neighbors, year after year. "Failure of diplomacy" had nothing to do with it. A nation which believes it is entitled to expand its control invades its neighbors. No country has a longer, richer history of that than ........ Russia.

With regards to Bin Laden, lets keep in mind two things: (1) We trained those terrorists to fly. (2) Even given the 20th century's lengthy history of Islamic terrorism, we insist on importing Muslims by the bushel. Banning Muslims from training in the US and banning them from emigrating would do more for our national security than all our interventions in the middle east combined.
#1 Plumb goofy. Saudis who were not entitled to visas fooled consular officers to get them, then came here and paid to learn to fly (as part of a surreptitious plan to use planes in a terrorist attack). That was a failure of the administrative state, not foreign policy.

I get the reasoning behind your suggestion, but it is not implementable, for a long list of practical reasons.
War has ben around since the first campfire. We are not going to end it. All we can do is minimize it. And the policies of the last 70 years created what is by any reasonable estimation an era of relative peace. That is coming to an end now. Not because of US/EU/Nato incompetence. Because of Russian expansionism.....
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boognish_bear
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3:22p, 7/4/24
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Aliceinbubbleland
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In reply to boognish_bear • 5:43p, 7/4/24
His Generals have broken with Bibi. The troops are worn out, the supplies are not coming in fast enough and the military fears Hezbollah on the north will strike. The new conscription of "Ultra-Orthodox" draft dodgers hasn't played out yet.
Astros in Home Stretch Geaux Texans
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muddybrazos
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In reply to Aliceinbubbleland • 9:16p, 7/4/24
Aliceinbubbleland said:
His Generals have broken with Bibi. The troops are worn out, the supplies are not coming in fast enough and the military fears Hezbollah on the north will strike. The new conscription of "Ultra-Orthodox" draft dodgers hasn't played out yet.
Oh well, sucks for them. We need to quit funding them and Ukraine,. Make Israel end this and make peace before it turns into a regional conflict that they will drag us into.
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whiterock
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In reply to muddybrazos • 9:30p, 7/4/24
muddybrazos said:
Aliceinbubbleland said:
His Generals have broken with Bibi. The troops are worn out, the supplies are not coming in fast enough and the military fears Hezbollah on the north will strike. The new conscription of "Ultra-Orthodox" draft dodgers hasn't played out yet.
Oh well, sucks for them. We need to quit funding them and Ukraine,. Make Israel end this and make peace before it turns into a regional conflict that they will drag us into.
The problem with your reasoning is that you do not understand the definition of peace.

If Israel ends its offensive right now, it will not bring about peace.

Nixon wrote two short books called "Real War" and "Real Peace" which illustrate the fallacies of not just your thinking, but virtually all of those who are demanding that we shut off support to Ukraine and Israel to bring about "peace." Problem is, shutting off all funding will not bring about peace. It will only lengthen the ongoing war, which will not stop if we shut off funding.

https://www.amazon.com/Real-War-Richard-Milhous-Nixon/dp/044651201X

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=nixon+real+peace&i=stripbooks&crid=1E9MCQMXGFP0F&sprefix=nixon+real+peac%2Cstripbooks%2C147&ref=nb_sb_noss

You could read each one of the easily in a weekend. One sentence summary of the theme running thru both: lack of armed conflict is not real peace.
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muddybrazos
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In reply to whiterock • 9:47p, 7/4/24
whiterock said:
muddybrazos said:
Aliceinbubbleland said:
His Generals have broken with Bibi. The troops are worn out, the supplies are not coming in fast enough and the military fears Hezbollah on the north will strike. The new conscription of "Ultra-Orthodox" draft dodgers hasn't played out yet.
Oh well, sucks for them. We need to quit funding them and Ukraine,. Make Israel end this and make peace before it turns into a regional conflict that they will drag us into.
The problem with your reasoning is that you do not understand the definition of peace.

If Israel ends its offensive right now, it will not bring about peace.

Nixon wrote two short books called "Real War" and "Real Peace" which illustrate the fallacies of not just your thinking, but virtually all of those who are demanding that we shut off support to Ukraine and Israel to bring about "peace." Problem is, shutting off all funding will not bring about peace. It will only lengthen the ongoing war, which will not stop if we shut off funding.

https://www.amazon.com/Real-War-Richard-Milhous-Nixon/dp/044651201X

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=nixon+real+peace&i=stripbooks&crid=1E9MCQMXGFP0F&sprefix=nixon+real+peac%2Cstripbooks%2C147&ref=nb_sb_noss

You could read each one of the easily in a weekend. One sentence summary of the theme running thru both: lack of armed conflict is not real peace.
I like Nixon and I probably should read those books. I dont like Israel and their influence over us. Epstein shows us how they operate and its much deeper than that. America is a captured country.
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boognish_bear
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12:50a, 7/5/24
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Realitybites
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In reply to whiterock • 5:33a, 7/5/24
whiterock said:
War has ben around since the first campfire. We are not going to end it. All we can do is minimize it. And the policies of the last 70 years created what is by any reasonable estimation an era of relative peace. That is coming to an end now. Not because of US/EU/Nato incompetence. Because of Russian expansionism.....


First, while war may have been around since the first campfire, nuclear weapons have not. It is only within the past century or so that man has developed the ability to destroy the planet and make it uninhabitable for everything but cockroaches. In light of that development, your archaic thinking about war must change. You continually blame "Russian expansionism" without once looking in the mirror and considering what NATO expansionism has done to destabilize the world after the end of the cold war.

We got through the cold war because at the end of the day Ivan wanted to go home to his Vodka, Borscht, and kids as much as we wanted to...and putting people who aren't invested in the future, whether they are jihadis or lesbian cat ranchers, into positions where they bring their flawed assumptions into the mix is very dangerous.

The conflict in Russia and Ukraine is a very different animal than Islam and the one in the middle east.
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nein51
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In reply to muddybrazos • 7:13a, 7/5/24
muddybrazos said:
Aliceinbubbleland said:
His Generals have broken with Bibi. The troops are worn out, the supplies are not coming in fast enough and the military fears Hezbollah on the north will strike. The new conscription of "Ultra-Orthodox" draft dodgers hasn't played out yet.
Oh well, sucks for them. We need to quit funding them and Ukraine,. Make Israel end this and make peace before it turns into a regional conflict that they will drag us into.

That's not even a realistic possibility. I think a lot of people are underestimating how complex this issue really is.

This is much closer to Northern Ireland than it is to Ukraine. The two really don't go in the same category.

The war in Israel only stops when both sides decide they are tired of burying their kids. There's no future solution that includes Hamas leadership of Gaza. There's no future for a single state solution, however, there's no obvious future for a two state solution.

You have a situation where both sides want total annihilation of the other. Neither side "just wants peace". And none of the above covers the complex issues with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or Hamas leaders living in Qatar.

If the fighting stopped tomorrow you've solved none of the problems and whatever "peace" is bound to last about .3 seconds.
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whiterock
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In reply to muddybrazos • 8:28a, 7/5/24
muddybrazos said:
whiterock said:
muddybrazos said:
Aliceinbubbleland said:
His Generals have broken with Bibi. The troops are worn out, the supplies are not coming in fast enough and the military fears Hezbollah on the north will strike. The new conscription of "Ultra-Orthodox" draft dodgers hasn't played out yet.
Oh well, sucks for them. We need to quit funding them and Ukraine,. Make Israel end this and make peace before it turns into a regional conflict that they will drag us into.
The problem with your reasoning is that you do not understand the definition of peace.

If Israel ends its offensive right now, it will not bring about peace.

Nixon wrote two short books called "Real War" and "Real Peace" which illustrate the fallacies of not just your thinking, but virtually all of those who are demanding that we shut off support to Ukraine and Israel to bring about "peace." Problem is, shutting off all funding will not bring about peace. It will only lengthen the ongoing war, which will not stop if we shut off funding.

https://www.amazon.com/Real-War-Richard-Milhous-Nixon/dp/044651201X

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=nixon+real+peace&i=stripbooks&crid=1E9MCQMXGFP0F&sprefix=nixon+real+peac%2Cstripbooks%2C147&ref=nb_sb_noss

You could read each one of the easily in a weekend. One sentence summary of the theme running thru both: lack of armed conflict is not real peace.
I like Nixon and I probably should read those books. I dont like Israel and their influence over us. Epstein shows us how they operate and its much deeper than that. America is a captured country.
Not at all. We are a country with an often rare opportunity to do something that is both morally right and good for our foreign policy interests - support a strong, independent Israel. Israel's opponents have a right to disagree and debate about it. And Israel's supports have right to engage in that debate. The supporters always win because they have the better argument, and a bigger political base.

Every nation in the world tries to influence the USA.
You should be proud about what that means.
The day when we have no one interested in trying to influence us will be a very sad day indeed.


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historian
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5:15p, 7/5/24
The best that can be hoped for in Israel is relative peace. They had that on October 7 before Hamas ended it. That is why Hamas must be destroyed and Israel cannot stop finding until they have completed the task.

Lasting peace won't happen because there are still too many Islamofascists that want to destroy Israel. They have the means & the will to conduct terrorist attacks and other acts of war. A temporary peace will eventually end with another attack of some sort.

Israel has managed to build constructive relationships with her neighbors one at a time starting with Egypt. They are the greatest source of stability in the region and many of the Arab states seem to recognize this. They are actually better off because of the regional stabilization that Israel brings. Maybe that's one reason so many countries signed into the Abram Accords. Before October they were in the process of adding Saudi Arabia to the list of countries in the Abram Accords. That leads to more stability and more peace. Iran & the various terrorist grouped they finance do the opposite.
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nein51
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In reply to historian • 6:07p, 7/5/24
The Saudi's want peace and relations with Israel. They know the value of that which outweighs their hatred. The rest of the Arab world hates the Palestinians too. There a reason no one is taking them in.

That said there's no way to eradicate Hamas. The leadership is in Qatar making themselves rich and there's no appetite to eliminate them as long as they stay there.
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