boognish_bear said:

---

Yep....kind of feels like Iran has had a "let's not FAFO" awakening.

Surely they will do something though. Maybe they will avoid civilian sites...hopefully.

---

The Middle East tape has been stuck on repeat for decades….(except when for those moments with the USA launches a massive land invasion)

Endless tit for tat strikes and working through minor proxies.

Its like groundhog day over there

I have been watching AgendaFree on YouTube every evening. The host is sort of a dork who wears a shirt and tie every night. I would bet he is Jewish.

He gets very excited when he thinks the assault has begun. Last night he nearly pooped his pants when he heard gunfire around the Lebanon border.

Most of his followers also seem disappointed that nothing has happened.

I'm still surprised El Al flies several flights a week to Moscow from Tel Aviv. I realize there is a deep connection to Jewish population history in Russia but with today's Iranian/Russian connection I find it odd so much travel occurs between the two capitols.

FLBear5630 said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

⚡️BREAKING

The head of Russia's National Security Council, Shoigu, has arrived in Iran

In recent days, we have seen several Russian cargo planes landing in Iran pic.twitter.com/8epUuTQXQw

— Iran Observer (@IranObserver0) August 5, 2024

---

So, is Russia supplying tech, weapons and munitions to Iran just as bad as the US helping Ukraine? Or is Putin justified in this as well...

---

What makes you think they aren't picking up supplies? Don't be shocked if Russia is preaching Iranian restraint so as not to deplete supplies they need.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Iran to Hezbollah - Do it
Hezbollah to Iran - NO, you do it
Houthi - What are you guys waiting on?
Iran - You do it
Houthi - NO, you do it If we do it our towns will look like Gaza

---

Yemen is sort of the Afghanistan of the middle east, with a tribal people in control of mountainous terrain. It isn't going to be easy to beat the Houthis, and may not be possible given our experience in Afghanistan. Defeating Afghanistan is possible, but it would take the strategic goals and tactics employed by Rome in the Third Punic War, that is the extermination of the Afghan people and erasure of their civilization.

As far as Iran goes, remember that Saddam Hussein threw a half million man strong army backed by the US against them and barely made a dent. It is a real country with real borders, not some artificial construct like Iraq was.

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

Some Israeli Officials believe that Iran is beginning to get “Cold Feet” and is now Reconsidering a Major Response against Israel, due to the possibility of it causing a Full-Scale Region War that they couldn’t Win; however, its also believed that Hezbollah is getting Impatient… pic.twitter.com/tbPI7CIdyE

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) August 7, 2024

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I have been watching AgendaFree on YouTube every evening. The host is sort of a dork who wears a shirt and tie every night. I would bet he is Jewish.

He gets very excited when he thinks the assault has begun. Last night he nearly pooped his pants when he heard gunfire around the Lebanon border.

Most of his followers also seem disappointed that nothing has happened.

---

sounds like an episode of "The Curse of Oak Island."

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

⚡️BREAKING

The head of Russia's National Security Council, Shoigu, has arrived in Iran

In recent days, we have seen several Russian cargo planes landing in Iran pic.twitter.com/8epUuTQXQw

— Iran Observer (@IranObserver0) August 5, 2024

---

So, is Russia supplying tech, weapons and munitions to Iran just as bad as the US helping Ukraine? Or is Putin justified in this as well...

---

What makes you think they aren't picking up supplies? Don't be shocked if Russia is preaching Iranian restraint so as not to deplete supplies they need.

---

Bingo

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

Yes, but the key to that term is "escalation", that is in response to an action. At least that is how I read it...

Realitybites said:

---

(1) It is entirely the fault of the US and the State Department for escalating tensions in Ukraine and starting the proxy war against Russia. Had Victoria Nuland not foolishly triggered the Maidan color revolution, none of this would have happened.

(2) Israel is not at fault for what is going on in Gaza, but suffers from the same historical blind spot that the EU and Anglosphere has with regards to Islam...that is Islam is the enemy, not Hamas or Hezbollah, and that this hydra has been trying to overthrow dar-al-harb for centuries before the UN sponsored modern Israeli state was reconstituted. What is the endpoint here?

(3) With regards to Taiwan, we're approaching a hundred years after the retreat of Chang's forces to the island and the west is no longer capable of defending them from a resurgent China halfway around the world. The Brits understood this about Hong Kong. A peaceful resolution to this would be better for everyone involved, because we're not sending the ****** navy to the South China Sea to try and beat the Chinese in their stadium while all our important supply lines continue to run through the CCP a half decade after Covid. This isn't about who is right or wrong, it's just about what is and is not possible.

---

Nope.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

The real loser here are American tax payers.

Every time they move one of these carrier groups that adds another $100 billion + interest to the debt.

Meanwhile OUR BORDER IS STILL WIDE OPEN!!!!!!

Iran just need to play the long game, like China, like Russia.

America wont make it much longer when middle aged, middle class white guys like myself stop paying taxes bcs AIPAC and "our government" is bankrupting us and destroying our familes through taxation and inflation.

FLBear5630 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

The real loser here are American tax payers.

Every time they move one of these carrier groups that adds another $100 billion + interest to the debt.

Meanwhile OUR BORDER IS STILL WIDE OPEN!!!!!!

Iran just need to play the long game, like China, like Russia.

America wont make it much longer when middle aged, middle class white guys like myself stop paying taxes bcs AIPAC and "our government" is bankrupting us and destroying our familes through taxation and inflation.

---

I agree with you on the Border, but the two are not related. It is not an either/or. There is NO reason why our Border is in the shape it is regardless of where our Carriers are.

---

But they do show the priorities of the American ruling class and DC politicians.

Stopping a 3rd world invasion that right now runs about 200,000 to 300,000 invaders across our border a month...and stopping the flow of deadly fentanyl that kills about 80,000 Americans a year....its NOT a priority for DC

While foreign proxy wars and policing the borders of other nations is a priority for DC.

Speaks volumes about values and priorities

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

The real loser here are American tax payers.

Every time they move one of these carrier groups that adds another $100 billion + interest to the debt.

Meanwhile OUR BORDER IS STILL WIDE OPEN!!!!!!

Iran just need to play the long game, like China, like Russia.

America wont make it much longer when middle aged, middle class white guys like myself stop paying taxes bcs AIPAC and "our government" is bankrupting us and destroying our familes through taxation and inflation.

---

I agree with you on the Border, but the two are not related. It is not an either/or. There is NO reason why our Border is in the shape it is regardless of where our Carriers are.

---

But they do show the priorities of the American ruling class and DC politicians.

Stopping a 3rd world invasion that right now runs about 200,000 to 300,000 invaders across our border a month...and stopping the flow of deadly fentanyl that kills about 80,000 Americans a year....its NOT a priority for DC

While foreign proxy wars and policing the borders of other nations is a priority for DC.

Speaks volumes about values and priorities

---

Which is why Harris CAN'T win.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

The real loser here are American tax payers.

Every time they move one of these carrier groups that adds another $100 billion + interest to the debt.

Meanwhile OUR BORDER IS STILL WIDE OPEN!!!!!!

Iran just need to play the long game, like China, like Russia.

America wont make it much longer when middle aged, middle class white guys like myself stop paying taxes bcs AIPAC and "our government" is bankrupting us and destroying our familes through taxation and inflation.

---

I agree with you on the Border, but the two are not related. It is not an either/or. There is NO reason why our Border is in the shape it is regardless of where our Carriers are.

---

But they do show the priorities of the American ruling class and DC politicians.

Stopping a 3rd world invasion that right now runs about 200,000 to 300,000 invaders across our border a month...and stopping the flow of deadly fentanyl that kills about 80,000 Americans a year....its NOT a priority for DC

While foreign proxy wars and policing the borders of other nations is a priority for DC.

Speaks volumes about values and priorities

---

Which is why Harris CAN'T win.

---

We can hope...but I would not be so sure.

These elections now come down to a few swing States....and 100,000 vote margins in those States.

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

Whether you and I like it the US's reputation, the whole Nation, is tied to the actions of whoever is in Leadership. Just like Trump alienating our Allies, Biden is destroying the US with his weakness and lack of border control. It isn't Joe Biden, it is all of us...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

---

Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

---

Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

---

The Nation is responsible for what the Leadership does. Did the Nazi's represent the German Nation? Of course they did, they put them in power and tolerated their actions. The Nation is held responsible and the people ultimately pay. The 2 are inseparable.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

---

Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

---

The Nation is responsible for what the Leadership does. Did the Nazi's represent the German Nation? Of course they did, they put them in power and tolerated their actions. The Nation is held responsible and the people ultimately pay. The 2 are inseparable.

---

Wow...a dictatorial party (that never got more than 33% of the vote in a general election) that took power in a coup represents the entire German Nation?

Man you really are a government bootlicker....any government that exists anywhere (not matter how it got into power) is the representative and embodiment of the Nation?

I don't even know how to respond to this kind of bugman view of the world.

Strangely enough your view and the Nazi view are eerily similar....the State is the Nation...the Nation is the State.

Very fascistic in fact...Benito Mussolini "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"

"The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute...total representative of the Nation"

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

Do you see any trend with your analyses? Does it matter?

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

---

Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

---

The Nation is responsible for what the Leadership does. Did the Nazi's represent the German Nation? Of course they did, they put them in power and tolerated their actions. The Nation is held responsible and the people ultimately pay. The 2 are inseparable.

---

Wow...a dictatorial party (that never got more than 33% of the vote in a general election) that took power in a coup represents the entire German Nation?

Man you really are a government bootlicker....any government that exists anywhere (not matter how it got into power) is the representative and embodiment of the Nation?

I don't even know how to respond to this kind of bugman view of the world.

Strangely enough your view and the Nazi view are eerily similar....the State is the Nation...the Nation is the State.

Very fascistic in fact...Benito Mussolini "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"

"The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute...total representative of the Nation"

---

You are way too theoretical.

The Nation is responsible for the actions of their leaders, ESPECIALLY someplace like Germany and the cruelty shown by THEIR Government.

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

Do you see any trend with your analyses? Does it matter?

---

Yes, it does if there is to be any credibility. Otherwise, we are just Schill's. To blame Israel or Ukraine for being attacked or invaded is like blaming the victim in an assault.

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

The real loser here are American tax payers.

Every time they move one of these carrier groups that adds another $100 billion + interest to the debt.

Meanwhile OUR BORDER IS STILL WIDE OPEN!!!!!!

Iran just need to play the long game, like China, like Russia.

America wont make it much longer when middle aged, middle class white guys like myself stop paying taxes bcs AIPAC and "our government" is bankrupting us and destroying our familes through taxation and inflation.

---

I agree with you on the Border, but the two are not related. It is not an either/or. There is NO reason why our Border is in the shape it is regardless of where our Carriers are.

---

But they do show the priorities of the American ruling class and DC politicians.

Stopping a 3rd world invasion that right now runs about 200,000 to 300,000 invaders across our border a month...and stopping the flow of deadly fentanyl that kills about 80,000 Americans a year....its NOT a priority for DC

While foreign proxy wars and policing the borders of other nations is a priority for DC.

Speaks volumes about values and priorities

---

Which is why Harris CAN'T win.

---

Trump is helping her campaign

---

Don't disagree, Walz was a mistake. There may be a chance there...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

The real loser here are American tax payers.

Every time they move one of these carrier groups that adds another $100 billion + interest to the debt.

Meanwhile OUR BORDER IS STILL WIDE OPEN!!!!!!

Iran just need to play the long game, like China, like Russia.

America wont make it much longer when middle aged, middle class white guys like myself stop paying taxes bcs AIPAC and "our government" is bankrupting us and destroying our familes through taxation and inflation.

---

I agree with you on the Border, but the two are not related. It is not an either/or. There is NO reason why our Border is in the shape it is regardless of where our Carriers are.

---

But they do show the priorities of the American ruling class and DC politicians.

Stopping a 3rd world invasion that right now runs about 200,000 to 300,000 invaders across our border a month...and stopping the flow of deadly fentanyl that kills about 80,000 Americans a year....its NOT a priority for DC

While foreign proxy wars and policing the borders of other nations is a priority for DC.

Speaks volumes about values and priorities

---

Which is why Harris CAN'T win.

---

Trump is helping her campaign

---

Don't disagree, Walz was a mistake. There may be a chance there...

---

Maybe they can sub him out later like Biden...

boognish_bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

he's got it backwards on one part --- Iran and Russia are the ones who equate restraint with weakness -- but he's right that Israeli determination to escalate if attacked has deterred Iran. "Escalation dominance" is a thing, and it works well when one side has a lot more to lose than the other. In this case, Iran has a LOT more to lose than Israel, given the circumstances.

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

The real loser here are American tax payers.

Every time they move one of these carrier groups that adds another $100 billion + interest to the debt.

Meanwhile OUR BORDER IS STILL WIDE OPEN!!!!!!

Iran just need to play the long game, like China, like Russia.

America wont make it much longer when middle aged, middle class white guys like myself stop paying taxes bcs AIPAC and "our government" is bankrupting us and destroying our familes through taxation and inflation.

---

I agree with you on the Border, but the two are not related. It is not an either/or. There is NO reason why our Border is in the shape it is regardless of where our Carriers are.

---

But they do show the priorities of the American ruling class and DC politicians.

Stopping a 3rd world invasion that right now runs about 200,000 to 300,000 invaders across our border a month...and stopping the flow of deadly fentanyl that kills about 80,000 Americans a year....its NOT a priority for DC

While foreign proxy wars and policing the borders of other nations is a priority for DC.

Speaks volumes about values and priorities

---

Which is why Harris CAN'T win.

---

Trump is helping her campaign

---

Don't disagree, Walz was a mistake. There may be a chance there...

---

Maybe they can sub him out later like Biden...

---

Of course they can, just like Vance. Until ballots go out, after that how would that be dealt with????

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

---

Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

---

The Nation is responsible for what the Leadership does. Did the Nazi's represent the German Nation? Of course they did, they put them in power and tolerated their actions. The Nation is held responsible and the people ultimately pay. The 2 are inseparable.

---

Wow...a dictatorial party (that never got more than 33% of the vote in a general election) that took power in a coup represents the entire German Nation?

Man you really are a government bootlicker....any government that exists anywhere (not matter how it got into power) is the representative and embodiment of the Nation?

I don't even know how to respond to this kind of bugman view of the world.

Strangely enough your view and the Nazi view are eerily similar....the State is the Nation...the Nation is the State.

Very fascistic in fact...Benito Mussolini "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"

"The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute...total representative of the Nation"l.

---

The Nation is responsible for the actions of their leaders, ESPECIALLY someplace like Germany and the cruelty shown by THEIR Government.

---

Lets not make it a World War II thread....but if you want to hold the German Nation responsible for a political party that took power (without ever winning a majority of the vote) that then quickly banned all other political parties.

Well that is your right.

Needless to say the current government of any country constitutes a State...it is not the same as the Nation itself.

The fact that you can not understand this not very difficult concept is shocking to me.

But I think I am coming to understand how you view attacks on DC policies (aka invading Iraq) as an attack on "America"

America is DC to you....

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

---

Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

---

The Nation is responsible for what the Leadership does. Did the Nazi's represent the German Nation? Of course they did, they put them in power and tolerated their actions. The Nation is held responsible and the people ultimately pay. The 2 are inseparable.

---

Wow...a dictatorial party (that never got more than 33% of the vote in a general election) that took power in a coup represents the entire German Nation?

Man you really are a government bootlicker....any government that exists anywhere (not matter how it got into power) is the representative and embodiment of the Nation?

I don't even know how to respond to this kind of bugman view of the world.

Strangely enough your view and the Nazi view are eerily similar....the State is the Nation...the Nation is the State.

Very fascistic in fact...Benito Mussolini "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"

"The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute...total representative of the Nation"l.

---

The Nation is responsible for the actions of their leaders, ESPECIALLY someplace like Germany and the cruelty shown by THEIR Government.

---

Lets not make it a World War II thread....but if you want to hold the German Nation responsible for a political party that took power (without ever winning a majority of the vote) that then quickly banned all other political parties.

Well that is your right.

Needless to say the current government of any country constitutes a State...it is not the same as the Nation itself.

The fact that you can not understand this not very difficult concept is shocking to me.

But I think I am coming to understand how you view attacks on DC policies (aka invading Iraq) as an attack on "America"

America is DC to you....

---

I was against the Invasion of Iraq and said numerous times it was a mistake. As a citizen of the US, it was my mistake as much as it was Bush's. You cannot separate the citizenship from the "Nation". The Nation is made of its citizens, you act like there is a pristine shadow Nation. The US selling weapons to Ukraine is just as much yours as it is mine. There is no pristine Nation that is untouchable from the decisions of its leaders and citizens.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

---

Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

---

The Nation is responsible for what the Leadership does. Did the Nazi's represent the German Nation? Of course they did, they put them in power and tolerated their actions. The Nation is held responsible and the people ultimately pay. The 2 are inseparable.

---

Wow...a dictatorial party (that never got more than 33% of the vote in a general election) that took power in a coup represents the entire German Nation?

Man you really are a government bootlicker....any government that exists anywhere (not matter how it got into power) is the representative and embodiment of the Nation?

I don't even know how to respond to this kind of bugman view of the world.

Strangely enough your view and the Nazi view are eerily similar....the State is the Nation...the Nation is the State.

Very fascistic in fact...Benito Mussolini "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"

"The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute...total representative of the Nation"l.

---

The Nation is responsible for the actions of their leaders, ESPECIALLY someplace like Germany and the cruelty shown by THEIR Government.

---

Lets not make it a World War II thread....but if you want to hold the German Nation responsible for a political party that took power (without ever winning a majority of the vote) that then quickly banned all other political parties.

Well that is your right.

Needless to say the current government of any country constitutes a State...it is not the same as the Nation itself.

The fact that you can not understand this not very difficult concept is shocking to me.

But I think I am coming to understand how you view attacks on DC policies (aka invading Iraq) as an attack on "America"

America is DC to you....

---

I was against the Invasion of Iraq and said numerous times it was a mistake. As a citizen of the US, it was my mistake as much as it was Bush's. You cannot separate the citizenship from the "Nation". The Nation is made of its citizens, you act like there is a pristine shadow Nation. The US selling weapons to Ukraine is just as much yours as it is mine. There is no pristine Nation that is untouchable from the decisions of its leaders and citizens.

---

And yet when the government does something like an Iraq invasion or now (Nuland staging coups and DC funding weapons sales/proxy wars in far off lands) you get upset if people in America stand up and speak out against the actions of the government that claims to represent them....

The State to you is not only the embodiment of the American Nation...but all of us are responsible for its actions...and yet to criticize it is to "attack America"!

Talk about a logical fallacy....the government is us and to criticize it is to attack ourselves!

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

---

Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

---

and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

---

1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

---

That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

---

Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

---

The Nation is responsible for what the Leadership does. Did the Nazi's represent the German Nation? Of course they did, they put them in power and tolerated their actions. The Nation is held responsible and the people ultimately pay. The 2 are inseparable.

---

Wow...a dictatorial party (that never got more than 33% of the vote in a general election) that took power in a coup represents the entire German Nation?

Man you really are a government bootlicker....any government that exists anywhere (not matter how it got into power) is the representative and embodiment of the Nation?

I don't even know how to respond to this kind of bugman view of the world.

Strangely enough your view and the Nazi view are eerily similar....the State is the Nation...the Nation is the State.

Very fascistic in fact...Benito Mussolini "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"

"The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute...total representative of the Nation"l.

---

The Nation is responsible for the actions of their leaders, ESPECIALLY someplace like Germany and the cruelty shown by THEIR Government.

---

Lets not make it a World War II thread....but if you want to hold the German Nation responsible for a political party that took power (without ever winning a majority of the vote) that then quickly banned all other political parties.

Well that is your right.

Needless to say the current government of any country constitutes a State...it is not the same as the Nation itself.

The fact that you can not understand this not very difficult concept is shocking to me.

But I think I am coming to understand how you view attacks on DC policies (aka invading Iraq) as an attack on "America"

America is DC to you....

---

I was against the Invasion of Iraq and said numerous times it was a mistake. As a citizen of the US, it was my mistake as much as it was Bush's. You cannot separate the citizenship from the "Nation". The Nation is made of its citizens, you act like there is a pristine shadow Nation. The US selling weapons to Ukraine is just as much yours as it is mine. There is no pristine Nation that is untouchable from the decisions of its leaders and citizens.

---

And yet when the government does something like an Iraq invasion or now (Nuland staging coups and DC funding weapons sales/proxy wars in far off lands) you get upset if people in America stand up and speak out against the actions of the government that claims to represent them....

The State to you is not only the embodiment of the American Nation...but all of us are responsible for its actions...and yet to criticize it is to "attack America"!

Talk about a logical fallacy....the government is us and to criticize it is to attack ourselves!

---

I don't want to hear Euros, Asians, or others coming out against the US after what the US has done for those Nations in investments and blood, what is even worse is when a US citizen joins them.

You have not heard me complain about who you vote for, writing your elected officials, demonstrations or any sort of disagreement. In-house, within the system. I have a problem when people take the other side against the US supporting our enemies. Disagree all you want, demonstrate, but in the end it is in all our best interest for the US to come out on top, if it isn't that person should leave. Change it through the system, not taking the side of Iran or Russa or China. Or some black masked group (ANTIFA, Terror Orgs and such)

I don't hold your conversations here against you, even though we disagree. I may not get why you would take the side so adamantly against a Nation that has allowed almost all of us to have the freedom to post here, make good livings, worship how we want and basically live your life as you choose. But, that is your choice and you can do it without fear of going to jail. That is a great Nation.

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

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They're in a corner. They know the West always interprets restraint as weakness, and they know Netanyahu is determined to escalate. The assassinations and other mischief won't stop until Israel gets what it thinks it wants.

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Sam,

Do you see a trend with your analysis?

Ukraine is at fault for Russia's invasion.

Now, Israel is at fault for Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran's attacks on it.

Israel did all this out of the blue, nothing prompted Israel's response?

Don't tell me, Taiwan is at fault for China wanting to invade. The US is at fault for China's expansion into the S China Sea.

Anything else? Is ANYTHING done to provoke NATO, Israel and the US? Or is it all the West fault. Xi and Vlad love you...

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and yes, it is always America's fault for Sam and Red. If we'd just stay home and ignore the rest of the world, all the bad guys will evaporate into thin air.

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1. You continue to conflate the current DC political class with America.

The American Nation is a real entity and people.

The DC political class is just a ruling regime

The Federal Government of the USA is not the American Nation

2. When did I ever say everything is always the fault of America? You have a link to me saying that?

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That is like saying that anything Putin does is really not Russia. Of course it is. The "Nation" does not cease to exist because the President changes. Just like the GB Government doesn't all of a sudden not not represent England because it changes Party.

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Well that is an interesting take....that Putin and his regime really embody the Russian people...rather than happen to be ruling over them.

I guess Kim Jong Un and the Communist rulers in Pyongyang is the embodiment of the Korean people.

I know you have a hard time distinguish these two sperate entities...but they are different.

A government is NOT the same as the Nation...its never has been.

If DC decides to invade Iraq...and create a boondoggle of a mess....it is not the American people invading Iraq...but an out of control Federal government and certain political faction.

[NATION: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory]

[Government: the current governing body of a nation, state, or community]

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The Nation is responsible for what the Leadership does. Did the Nazi's represent the German Nation? Of course they did, they put them in power and tolerated their actions. The Nation is held responsible and the people ultimately pay. The 2 are inseparable.

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Wow...a dictatorial party (that never got more than 33% of the vote in a general election) that took power in a coup represents the entire German Nation?

Man you really are a government bootlicker....any government that exists anywhere (not matter how it got into power) is the representative and embodiment of the Nation?

I don't even know how to respond to this kind of bugman view of the world.

Strangely enough your view and the Nazi view are eerily similar....the State is the Nation...the Nation is the State.

Very fascistic in fact...Benito Mussolini "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"

"The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute...total representative of the Nation"l.

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The Nation is responsible for the actions of their leaders, ESPECIALLY someplace like Germany and the cruelty shown by THEIR Government.

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Lets not make it a World War II thread....but if you want to hold the German Nation responsible for a political party that took power (without ever winning a majority of the vote) that then quickly banned all other political parties.

Well that is your right.

Needless to say the current government of any country constitutes a State...it is not the same as the Nation itself.

The fact that you can not understand this not very difficult concept is shocking to me.

But I think I am coming to understand how you view attacks on DC policies (aka invading Iraq) as an attack on "America"

America is DC to you....

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I was against the Invasion of Iraq and said numerous times it was a mistake. As a citizen of the US, it was my mistake as much as it was Bush's. You cannot separate the citizenship from the "Nation". The Nation is made of its citizens, you act like there is a pristine shadow Nation. The US selling weapons to Ukraine is just as much yours as it is mine. There is no pristine Nation that is untouchable from the decisions of its leaders and citizens.

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And yet when the government does something like an Iraq invasion or now (Nuland staging coups and DC funding weapons sales/proxy wars in far off lands) you get upset if people in America stand up and speak out against the actions of the government that claims to represent them....

The State to you is not only the embodiment of the American Nation...but all of us are responsible for its actions...and yet to criticize it is to "attack America"!

Talk about a logical fallacy....the government is us and to criticize it is to attack ourselves!

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I don't want to hear Euros, Asians, or others coming out against the US after what the US has done for those Nations in investments and blood, what is even worse is when a US citizen joins them.

You have not heard me complain about who you vote for, writing your elected officials, demonstrations or any sort of disagreement. In-house, within the system. I have a problem when people take the other side against the US supporting our enemies. Disagree all you want, demonstrate, but in the end it is in all our best interest for the US to come out on top, if it isn't that person should leave. Change it through the system, not taking the side of Iran or Russa or China. Or some black masked group (ANTIFA, Terror Orgs and such)

I don't hold your conversations here against you, even though we disagree. I may not get why you would take the side so adamantly against a Nation that has allowed almost all of us to have the freedom to post here, make good livings, worship how we want and basically live your life as you choose. But, that is your choice and you can do it without fear of going to jail. That is a great Nation.

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I am not sure what having a great Nation has to do with you not wanting to hear gripping from Europeans or Asians?

Some criticism of the US government are understandable...some are not.

The Federal government should get credit with it does something right...like helping to fund the eradication of the Guinea worm in Africa.

[Guinea worms are spread through contaminated drinking water and eating undercooked fish. The female worms, which can be up to 3 feet long once they mature, cause incredibly painful, open blisters usually on the infected person's lower legs and feet through which the worms emerge. It can take a toll for weeks or months, and sometimes permanently...the United States government has long secured funding to help eliminate the disease]

And sometimes the Federal government should get called out...like when it puts pressure on poor countries like Macedonia to sign on for LGTBQ indoctrination..

[In 2004, billboards appeared in the Macedonian capital of Skopje with pictures of gay couples and the slogan "Face Reality, The Campaign to Promote the Rights of Sexual Minorities." At the bottom right corner of each billboard was the seal of the U.S. embassy. The billboards had been purchased by a local gay rights group called the Center for Civil and Human Rights, which two years earlier had received a $20,000 grant from the U.S. government. ]

The point remains that the Government itself is not identical to the Nation.