The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA, 8 of them abroad, 5 of them collecting directly against the subjects we are discussing, 2 of them actually in the islamic world. The Yugoslav crisis began while was serving. During that time, I both read and contributed to reporting on the rise of islamic NGOs which were formed to deliver humanitarian aid to the Kosovars and then morphed into paramilitary organizations supporting the Kosovar rebellion.

I can get more granular on this than classification restrictions will allow me to go. Suffice to say you got a fair bit of learning to do about history and geography before you know enough to quit making a fool of yourself.

The_barBEARian said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Realitybites said:

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whiterock said:

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do you also deny the Holocaust happened?

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No. But I don't treat it as the single worst thing to ever happen in human history either.

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It was and nothing comes close

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There have even been worse genocides in Africa and Asia in the last 80ty years but the Tutsi or Cambodians don't control the media

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words mean things. "Genocide." Means one group (race, language, religion) trying to extirpate another. So that rules out the mass murder eras of Soviet and Chinese communist regimes, which indeed involved inhumanity at scale that dwarfs the Holocaust. They were after anyone who might be a threat to the regime, irrespective of race, et al.

Just so you know:
The Rwandan genocide involved about 1m to 500k deaths.
The Cambodian genocide involved between 1.5m to 2.0m deaths.
The Holocaust involved at least 6m deaths.

Please educate yourself on the subject material.

Realitybites said:

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whiterock said:

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sorta. almost the entire international community united to stop Serbian ethnic cleansing of Kosovars.

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands, but however one chooses to frame the history, it's hardly an example of a people engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" finding themselves at odds with US/Nato. In fact, Nato had a valid interest in the stability of states/borders/populations within its very footprint, which was substantially threatened by Serbian genocide.

---

That was 1999. almost 10 years before the first iPhone was released, and 4 years before the launch of social media. It was 2 years before the launch of 3G cell service. News spread slowly, through the gatekeepers of Fox, MSNBC, CNN. While the internet was a thing, it looked like this and we were using AOL and dial-up.

There was really no way for people to circumvent the "evil serbs are ethnically cleansing the Kosovars" deep state meme. Kosovo is Serbia, notwithstanding our efforts to carve out a piece of real estate for our own purposes. Incidentally, this is why neocons and democrats are united in their hatred of the first amendment and a free exchange of ideas on the internet. It destroys propaganda.

Kosovo asks U.S. for permanent military base, speedier NATO membership

Meanwhile, Human Rights Watch reports "at least 500 Yugoslav civilians died in ninety separate incidents during the 78 day bombing campaign. The report also finds that NATO committed violations of international humanitarian law in its targeting and bombing practices."

Sounds familiar, doesn't it.

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dude, I read it all real-time in classified intelligence reports. You could not be more disconnected from reality.

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.
They just resettled, legally, in their former homelands. No force involved. The land was mostly empty and undeveloped.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)
Nato, enforcing UNSCR 1244 (et al)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria
Yes, they do. But it was their own incredibly bad decision-making which delivered the outcome.

---

It is truly amazing to see how relentlessly isolationists will contort history. Israel has at no time gone to war to gain land. In every instance but one, the wars they fought were started by their neighbors. The one exception was pre-emptive to interdict well-documented mobilizations by their enemies (a legal grounds for war). At no time has Israel used military force to destroy the existence of entire nations; but throughout its entire history, Israel has incurred the use of force intended to destroy its existence.

I mean, the two are not remotely close parallels.
Serbia engaged in genocide to stop a province from seceding.
Israel engaged in wars to defend itself against impending genocide.

pull yer head out!

whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

We got into the Serb-Kosovar conflict as a humanitarian response - to stop genocide by Serbs against the Kosovars. Had the Serbs acted with more restraint, the international community would have supported the territorial integrity of then-Serbia.

---

This is demonstrably false. After Yugoslavia's economy was crippled and its polity torn apart by IMF "shock therapy," the Serbs did everything they could to hold the country together. They accepted every one of NATO's demands, only to have the demands change. In typical fashion, we supported Islamic separatists and did everything we could to exacerbate the division. Our own forces killed more civilians than the Serbs did. We fully expected our actions to worsen the humanitarian crisis, and that's exactly what happened. The violence that followed was more a result of the bombing campaign than anything else. Of course it goes without saying that our attack on a sovereign country was completely illegal under the UN Charter and the NATO treaty. No serious person even bothered to argue otherwise.

---

Good grief, how you have scrambled this up, even conflating Nato with the UN.

You're puffing your brains out trying to inflate a balloon of make-believe already punctured UNSCR 1244.

---

Again, it was a violation of both the UN Charter and the NATO treaty.

UNSCR 1244 doesn't give you a leg to stand on. All it did was end the bombing and place Kosovo under UN jurisdiction.

Sam is quite right about the CIA.

If you want to get an idea of what sort of thing that three letter agency is involved in, read the book "Poisoner in Chief". Until you do, don't presume to understand the depths of evil that agency can sink to.

Joseph Mengele, right here in the good old US of A.

Harris in "60 Minutes" interview won't say if the U.S. has "a real close ally" in Netanyahu https://t.co/65H73lhyIf

— Axios (@axios) October 7, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

"Excessive time?" I got two degrees in 6 years, unlike my son, who crammed 4 years into 7 getting one degree but had a lotta fun doing it. Does that make him more of an international interventionist than I am?

no, I don't think the Serbs were bad guys for trying to maintain the territorial integrity of their country. I think they were bad guys for HOW they tried to do it......

"liberal interventionism" caused Kosovo to fail? That's some pretty convoluted noble savage thinking....they would have succeeded as a state had Nato not intervened? Do you mean to suggest that if we'd let Serbia kill all the Kosovars to gain control over their territory, Kosovo would be a success story?

The problem with isolationism is that it is a conclusion in search of a justification which becomes more outlandish with each convoluted iteration.

Realitybites said:

---

Sam is quite right about the CIA.

If you want to get an idea of what sort of thing that three letter agency is involved in, read the book "Poisoner in Chief". Until you do, don't presume to understand the depths of evil that agency can sink to.

Joseph Mengele, right here in the good old US of A.

---

you give bureaucrats far too much credit. But the Hollywood sensationalism does sell to simple minds.

Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

"I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole...we had entire training courses." (Mike Pompeo)

It's what they do.

---

it's what all good intelligence agencies do. They're not worth funding if they don't do it well. CIA is the best at it only in the sense of "full range, everywhere" of abilities. There are others who are better in key aspects, particularly the Brits and Israelis when it comes to collecting humint via non-official cover, a necessary requirement to collecting in denied areas. Israelis in particular can collect really solid stuff in areas we just don't hardly scratch....because of risk/return calculations on our end. But that's ok, because we have very strong liaison relationships with both services, and others, to help us when we need it.

Alliances have some value from time to time.

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

"I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole...we had entire training courses." (Mike Pompeo)

It's what they do.

---

it's what all good intelligence agencies do. They're not worth funding if they don't do it well. CIA is the best at it only in the sense of "full range, everywhere" of abilities…

---

And what are the safe guards that the CIA will not turn around and use their grey craft on the American people?

In fact it's almost assured they have done so already

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

no, I don't think the Serbs were bad guys for trying to maintain the territorial integrity of their country. I think they were bad guys for HOW they tried to do it......

---

Lincoln killed 600,000+ people, turned his armies lose on the large parts of the civilian South, and burned down whole cities to maintain the integrity of the USA

Putin leveled Chechnya to the ground to maintain the integrity of the USA

The English parliament committed war crimes in Scotland and Ireland to do the same in the 1600s-1700s

And I'm sure we could spend all time recounting other anti-secessionist movements in history that were bloody in putting down insurgents

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

"I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole...we had entire training courses." (Mike Pompeo)

It's what they do.

---

it's what all good intelligence agencies do. They're not worth funding if they don't do it well. CIA is the best at it only in the sense of "full range, everywhere" of abilities…

---

And what are the safe guards that the CIA will not turn around and use their grey craft on the American people?

In fact it's almost assured they have done so already

---

the answer is: congressional oversight. it is far more robust than you realize. There's always skepticism. In my days, Democrats were the proctologists. Today, it's the GOP.

The day before my departure for my first tour, the Chief of Africa Division called me into his office. That's like Patton calling in a 2nd LT for a discussion. I was handling a case that did not have much affect on the imminent fate of the nation, or anything like that, but it was a case that that would have made news if anything went awry....embarrassing to USG. It was one of those situations that even if we played strictly by the rules, the agent could take action which would put us on the spot = the existence of the relationship itself would make it impossible for us to effectively deny that we sponsored his actions. (the more influential the source, the more that dynamic tends to be true...call it the "Noriega Paradox" - the best sources are often the ones over which you have the least control.) And John Conyers (D-OH) was always a critic, but pointedly so on the place I was going. C/AF told me this: "I do not want to hear about a problem with this case from the Washington Post. If something goes wrong, I better hear about it from your FIRST, because I'll be under oath when Conyers climbs up my ass. You got that?"

Congressional oversight is not perfect, but it is adversarial in nature. We will muddle thru. Our pants will be splattered top & bottom from various sources, but that's what a great power looks like from the inside = untidy.

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

no, I don't think the Serbs were bad guys for trying to maintain the territorial integrity of their country. I think they were bad guys for HOW they tried to do it......

---

Lincoln killed 600,000+ people, turned his armies lose on the large parts of the civilian South, and burned down whole cities to maintain the integrity of the USA

Putin level Chechnya to the ground to mainline the integrity of the USA

The English parliament commuted war crimes in Scotland and Ireland to do the same in the 1600s-1700s

And I'm sure we could spend all time recounting other anti-secessionist movements in history that were bloody in putting down insurgents

---

Sherman's march to the sea was scorched earth tactics as old as time. The point is to destroy logistics, not to kill all the public (although there will be direct and derivative collateral human damage in any such campaign). That is not what Serbia did. They went directly after folks.

Putin did level Chechnya to the ground. The difference is, Serbia was/is not a nuclear power and Russia is not within the EU/Nato footprint. Thus the problem in Kosovo was more proximate and involved less risk to address. i.e. the instability in Chechnya was a very minor threat to Europe. The same cannot be said about hot-war instability leading to genocide in the Balkans, which has at several points in the past sparked major wars involving Russia. (you are not thinking terribly deeply on this, a common weakness with isolationist arguments.....)

Dragging the context back all the way to Bosworth Field is presentism run amok.

What is your ethnicity and religious orientation?

If you are white Christian or a white agnostic and you believe bombing the Serbs made you and your family's future more safe and prosperous, you are a ****ing idiot.

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

do you also deny the Holocaust happened?

---

No. But I don't treat it as the single worst thing to ever happen in human history either.

---

It was and nothing comes close

---

There have even been worse genocides in Africa and Asia in the last 80ty years but the Tutsi or Cambodians don't control the media

---

words mean things. "Genocide." Means one group (race, language, religion) trying to extirpate another.

---

Yes, they do...and to accuse the Serbs of committing "genocide" is an abuse of language as well as history.

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

no, I don't think the Serbs were bad guys for trying to maintain the territorial integrity of their country. I think they were bad guys for HOW they tried to do it......

---

Lincoln killed 600,000+ people, turned his armies lose on the large parts of the civilian South, and burned down whole cities to maintain the integrity of the USA

Putin level Chechnya to the ground to mainline the integrity of the USA

The English parliament commuted war crimes in Scotland and Ireland to do the same in the 1600s-1700s

And I'm sure we could spend all time recounting other anti-secessionist movements in history that were bloody in putting down insurgents

---

Dragging the context back all the way to Bosworth Field is presentism run amok.

---

Presentism would be judging the English then by liberal values of today

Not pointing out that now and then central governments have put down insurgents through history

And the Serbs had every right to resist a separatist Albanian movement inside their own country

Israel is making sure that Hezbollah leaders are doing lots of reaping! Lest anyone forgot the reference:

"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, For whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6:7


https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2024/10/after_a_lifetime_of_promoting_death_and_martyrdom_at_least_one_hezb_allah_boss_decides_he_d_rather_not_be_the_next_martyr.html


Here are the more entertaining parts:

Hezbollah leaders:
💀 Hassan Nasrallah: Eliminated on September 27.
💀 Hassan Khalil Yassin: Appointed on September 28. Eliminated hours later.
💀 Hashem Safieddine: Appointed on October 1. Eliminated on October 3. pic.twitter.com/5AZDUR6SDL

— Dr. Eli David (@DrEliDavid) October 4, 2024

"Naim, wait, where are you going? We haven't even told you about the 401K matching plan and dental benefits!" https://t.co/4WiP4jn4fm

— Jim Geraghty (@jimgeraghty) October 7, 2024

He finally gets to practice what he preached, although he didn't want to:

Reports suggest that an #IDF airstrike just eliminated Naim Qassem, #Hezbollah’s number 2 figure. #Lebanon #Israel pic.twitter.com/aLeVfg2UST

— War_Room_ME (@WarRoomME) October 7, 2024

historian said:

---

Israel is making sure that Hezbollah leaders are doing lots of reaping! Lest anyone forgot the reference:

"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, For whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6:7


https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2024/10/after_a_lifetime_of_promoting_death_and_martyrdom_at_least_one_hezb_allah_boss_decides_he_d_rather_not_be_the_next_martyr.html


Here are the more entertaining parts:

Hezbollah leaders:
💀 Hassan Nasrallah: Eliminated on September 27.
💀 Hassan Khalil Yassin: Appointed on September 28. Eliminated hours later.
💀 Hashem Safieddine: Appointed on October 1. Eliminated on October 3. pic.twitter.com/5AZDUR6SDL

— Dr. Eli David (@DrEliDavid) October 4, 2024

"Naim, wait, where are you going? We haven't even told you about the 401K matching plan and dental benefits!" https://t.co/4WiP4jn4fm

— Jim Geraghty (@jimgeraghty) October 7, 2024

He finally gets to practice what he preached, although he didn't want to:

Reports suggest that an #IDF airstrike just eliminated Naim Qassem, #Hezbollah’s number 2 figure. #Lebanon #Israel pic.twitter.com/aLeVfg2UST

— War_Room_ME (@WarRoomME) October 7, 2024

---

It seems that at least one of them is beginning to understand

The_barBEARian said:

---

What is your ethnicity and religious orientation?

If you are white Christian or a white agnostic and you believe bombing the Serbs made you and your family's future more safe and prosperous, you are a ****ing idiot.

---

the Serbian genocide in Kosovo accelerated the rise of islamism. Islamic countries simply did not have governmental resources, funding or structures, to help the Kosovars. islamic charities popped up, raised incredible amounts of money from devout Muslims. They quickly became a clandestine conduit for military support for the Kosovars, effectively propagating an islamic insurgency in Europe.

You can thank the Serbs for that. They caused it by engaging in their own religious holocaust that prompted an islamic backlash.

you can't genocide your way out of a problem the way the Serbs tried to do it. They were quite stupid. Don't be like them.

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

no, I don't think the Serbs were bad guys for trying to maintain the territorial integrity of their country. I think they were bad guys for HOW they tried to do it......

---

Lincoln killed 600,000+ people, turned his armies lose on the large parts of the civilian South, and burned down whole cities to maintain the integrity of the USA

Putin level Chechnya to the ground to mainline the integrity of the USA

The English parliament commuted war crimes in Scotland and Ireland to do the same in the 1600s-1700s

And I'm sure we could spend all time recounting other anti-secessionist movements in history that were bloody in putting down insurgents

---

Dragging the context back all the way to Bosworth Field is presentism run amok.

---

Presentism would be judging the English then by liberal values of today
You brought up "war crimes" in the middle ages, not me....

Not pointing out that now and then central governments have put down insurgents through history.

And the Serbs had every right to resist a separatist Albanian movement inside their own country.
Agreed. Unfortunately they went about it all wrong.

---

Turkey is a Nato member. Allowing Serbs to shell Kosovar towns indiscriminately was a direct threat to the stability of the western order. Talk about gnawing at old wounds.......

Open you eyes, man.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is making sure that Hezbollah leaders are doing lots of reaping! Lest anyone forgot the reference:

"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, For whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6:7


https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2024/10/after_a_lifetime_of_promoting_death_and_martyrdom_at_least_one_hezb_allah_boss_decides_he_d_rather_not_be_the_next_martyr.html


Here are the more entertaining parts:

Hezbollah leaders:
💀 Hassan Nasrallah: Eliminated on September 27.
💀 Hassan Khalil Yassin: Appointed on September 28. Eliminated hours later.
💀 Hashem Safieddine: Appointed on October 1. Eliminated on October 3. pic.twitter.com/5AZDUR6SDL

— Dr. Eli David (@DrEliDavid) October 4, 2024

"Naim, wait, where are you going? We haven't even told you about the 401K matching plan and dental benefits!" https://t.co/4WiP4jn4fm

— Jim Geraghty (@jimgeraghty) October 7, 2024

He finally gets to practice what he preached, although he didn't want to:

---

It seems that at least one of them is beginning to understand

---

Israel must have a spy on the inside in order to possess such reliable real time intelligence.

Someone is making it ridiculous easy to target these guys .

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What is your ethnicity and religious orientation?

If you are white Christian or a white agnostic and you believe bombing the Serbs made you and your family's future more safe and prosperous, you are a ****ing idiot.

---

the Serbian genocide in Kosovo accelerated the rise of islamism. Islamic countries simply did not have governmental resources, funding or structures, to help the Kosovars. islamic charities popped up, raised incredible amounts of money from devout Muslims. They quickly became a clandestine conduit for military support for the Kosovars, effectively propagating an islamic insurgency in Europe.

You can thank the Serbs for that. They caused it by engaging in their own religious holocaust that prompted an islamic backlash.

you can't genocide your way out of a problem the way the Serbs tried to do it. They were quite stupid. Don't be like them.

---

The Serbs would have won if the US had simply stepped aside!

Christianity would have won!

The white native European population would have won!

The only dummies were the Baby Boomer generation who allowed the filth in our government to proceed with their anti-Christian, anti-white air strikes

KaiBear said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

historian said:

---

Israel is making sure that Hezbollah leaders are doing lots of reaping! Lest anyone forgot the reference:

"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, For whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6:7


https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2024/10/after_a_lifetime_of_promoting_death_and_martyrdom_at_least_one_hezb_allah_boss_decides_he_d_rather_not_be_the_next_martyr.html


Here are the more entertaining parts:

Hezbollah leaders:
💀 Hassan Nasrallah: Eliminated on September 27.
💀 Hassan Khalil Yassin: Appointed on September 28. Eliminated hours later.
💀 Hashem Safieddine: Appointed on October 1. Eliminated on October 3. pic.twitter.com/5AZDUR6SDL

— Dr. Eli David (@DrEliDavid) October 4, 2024

"Naim, wait, where are you going? We haven't even told you about the 401K matching plan and dental benefits!" https://t.co/4WiP4jn4fm

— Jim Geraghty (@jimgeraghty) October 7, 2024

He finally gets to practice what he preached, although he didn't want to:

---

It seems that at least one of them is beginning to understand

---

Israel must have a spy on the inside in order to possess such reliable real time intelligence.

Someone is making it ridiculous easy to target these guys .

---

Hezbollah is making Yahya Sinwar look like a 200 IQ genius

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What is your ethnicity and religious orientation?

If you are white Christian or a white agnostic and you believe bombing the Serbs made you and your family's future more safe and prosperous, you are a ****ing idiot.

---

the Serbian genocide in Kosovo accelerated the rise of islamism. Islamic countries simply did not have governmental resources, funding or structures, to help the Kosovars. islamic charities popped up, raised incredible amounts of money from devout Muslims. They quickly became a clandestine conduit for military support for the Kosovars, effectively propagating an islamic insurgency in Europe.

You can thank the Serbs for that. They caused it by engaging in their own religious holocaust that prompted an islamic backlash.

you can't genocide your way out of a problem the way the Serbs tried to do it. They were quite stupid. Don't be like them.

---

The Serbs would have won if the US had simply stepped aside!

Christianity would have won!

The white native European population would have won!

The only dummies were the Baby Boomer generation who allowed the filth in our government to proceed with their anti-Christian, anti-white air strikes

---

and Turkey would have left Nato andnow be playihng footsie with Russia......
and the price of oil from OPEC would have soared......

I understand where you're coming from. I also understand the world is full over very inconvenient realities. A small state that tries to kill its way thru a demographic inconvenience is going to face intervention. If Europe tolerates a genocide against muslims, the islamic world is going to start poking Europe in the eyes.

Stability in the shatterzone is paramount to powers great and small.........

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

---

"Kosovo and Iraq would be examples. Of course you already know that most of our wars are covert/intelligence or proxy wars, so your question obscures the real issue."

Exactly how is Kosovo an example of a peoples engaging in "peace, commerce, and honest friendships" who found themselves facing US troops?

---

I think he is referring to how we entered a conflict that didnt concern us to intentional bomb and kill the Christian Serbs who were fighting for their ancestral land and in doing so secured the Islamic invasion of Europe.

American government LOVES killing conservative white men and Christians whenever it gets a chance... and it makes you wonder who is truly controlling our government and what their motivations are?

---

One can certainly debate the pros/cons of allowing/opposing a Serbian reconquista of their ancestral lands

---

I mean most of the people on this forum like watching the Jews do it In Palestine.


(We got involved in the the most resent Balkans bloodletting because the other Europeans-Germany/France/UK- wanted us to. They basically begged us. So it's Understandable….but we should have stayed out of it)

---

Again, bad analogy. Israel did not go to war to subsume Gaza into Israeli polity. Israel went to war because it was attacked by an already independent Palestinian polity seeking the literal destruction of Israel.

---

No its pretty accurate.

The Jews moved to Palestine to retake what they consider their ethnic homeland.

The Serbs viewed Kosovo in the same way.

And both had/have pretty good historic claims to those regions.

Of course Serbia even legally owned Kosovo by international law (until the USA bombed them into giving it up)

Serbs have as much right to be upset about that as Israelis would be if the USA bombed them into giving up Samaria

---

LOL. mainly, it's the opposite. Had the Serbs done what the Jews did (just resettled into their ancestral homeland), the war & western intervention would not have happened. Instead, the Serbs did the opposite of what the Jews did to gain control over their homeland. The Serbs tried to kill their way thru the problem.

There is also a fundamental difference on the issue of territorial integrity of the state. The minority Kosovars were trying to secede from Serbia. By contrast, the conflict in Israel is not at all aimed at achieving or preventing secession. The "victims" in fact are refusing to acknowledge the existence of the Israeli regime, trying to destroy it rather than cooperate with it..

Serbia indeed has a right to be upset about what happened, but their misfortune is directly derivative of their own misdeeds. And in that, you have the only real parallel to Israel - the Palestinians have only themselves to blame for their misfortune. Over and over and over again they have refused peace and as a result have ended each crisis in a worse position than before.

if 50 years ago the Palestinians were the least bit clever, they'd have dropped the homeland nonsense and just become Israeli citizens. They'd have gained via coalition with Israeli leftists a pivotal position in Israeli politics, likely freezing out the Likud/conservatives forever. Bibi Netanyahu might be best known as a minor officer on the Entebbe Raid. With time and superior demographics, they'd have owned Israel via the ballot box. But islam cannot tolerate the notion of equality with others of other faiths, so here we are.

---

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. You are from the generation that allowed Serbia to have American bombs dropped on it and you are an absolute failure for that. But in your old man arrogance you can't admit you left the world in a worse place from how you inherited it.

The Serbia - Israel comparison is accurate in that they were both in wars/mutual combat to take back land they precieved to be lost (the Serbs really did lose ancestral lands, the Israelis are mostly transplants with only a small percentage actually being from the region)

You and the three other simpletons who liked your post always apply a double standard to Christians and whites that you don't apply to Jews.

In your cultist mind the Jews are superior beings and God commands you to be their slaves. The Jews can do no wrong and even when committing the most heinous atrocities, they are never at fault or guilty of anything.

Unfortunately not all of us believe in the spiritual/mystical/supernatural and while I come from the Christian tradition, I don't believe there is a god and therefore I believe Jews are every bit as human as the rest of us and not ordained by some omnipotent being as a higher class or superior species.

If the Serbs were wrong in what they did in the 90ties fighting against muslim extremists, then Israel is wrong now and we should be bombing Tel Aviv like we bombed Belgrade

---

I was young and dumb once. Then I got two college degrees and spent 10 years in the CIA...

---

Excessive time in academia and the CIA

No wonder you think the Christian Serbs were the "bad guys" for trying to hold onto their historic homeland against a bunch of low IQ thuggish Albanian Muslims.


Not to mention liberal interventionism in that case failed on its own merits

Kosovo today is a failed state controlled by a select few Albanian crime families

---

"I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole...we had entire training courses." (Mike Pompeo)

It's what they do.

---

it's what all good intelligence agencies do. They're not worth funding if they don't do it well. CIA is the best at it only in the sense of "full range, everywhere" of abilities…

---

And what are the safe guards that the CIA will not turn around and use their grey craft on the American people?

In fact it's almost assured they have done so already

---

He does it here every day (see above).

Here's the reality: there is no office in CIA to collect on Americans. There is a small office that conducts voluntary debriefings of citizens (usually business execs) who travel to denied areas. And there is a small unit that focuses on targeting foreigners traveling to/stationed in the US. The other 99% of collection is done abroad. That structure itself limits what can be done and how often.

Can a partisan CIA officer stationed abroad abuse their power? Sure.
Hqs is full of senior officers. Can/do they push boundaries for partisan reasons? Sure.
But it'd be hard, and almost impossible for an entire unit to get engaged off the mapsheet.
Far more common is the crossing of threads.....CIA agents come into contact with US citizens somehow and then it becomes impossible to prove the whole thing was not actually aimed at the US citizen. Not saying such would or has never happened. Saying the allegations are impossible to disprove.

I had dinner one night, for the purposes of assessment and development as a reporting source, with a manager of one of Bin Laden's front companies. HQS asked me as DCOS to do a 2nd opinion on the guy who was being developed by one of my junior officers. I told Hqs the dude was ready to be pitched. At the last minute, Hqs lawyers waived us off - dude was married to an American Citizen, ergo a "US Person." While AQ was a bunch of bad dudes, they had not attacked us yet, so the potential return did not justify the risks of clandestinely handling an USP. Dude this very day sits in a US prison for a terror attack on US soil. Big whiff. Just to protect civil liberties of Amcits. All that's to say there are protections in place and they do have an impact on what is done or not......

The world can be a small place sometimes. My parents came to visit us a few times in AF. I'd use my diplomatic passport to walk thru the airport controls and wait for them at the gate...to help expedite them thru customs. This one time, mom walks up & hugs me. Daddy is right behind her and does the same. Then, he turns around and introduces me to one of my clandestine human sources, right in front of policemen, soldiers, and plain-clothes intel officers of the local government, on camera, in a government controlled area. Textbook radioactive zone for operational security. They weren't just on the same flight, they were seated adjacent to each other. What are the odds? Agent was an engaging chap and my father never once in his life met a stranger....two magnets finding one another in the dark. My agent was a long-time professional and was quite amused at the situation, because he knew exactly the dilemma racing thru my mind....how on earth do I document to Hqs that my parents just introduced me to one of my agents in front of the local counterintelligence service? Agent and I laughed hard about it at next meeting. All kinds of weird stuff like that happens. And when it makes the newspapers, it's impossible for the uninitiated to get a fair & accurate understanding of dynamics. Too much Hollywood in the brain, contaminated by the reality that intel agencies being full of human beings will make mistakes and even from time to time stray outside the lines. What they do not do is run amok as if the lines do not exist.....

whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What is your ethnicity and religious orientation?

If you are white Christian or a white agnostic and you believe bombing the Serbs made you and your family's future more safe and prosperous, you are a ****ing idiot.

---

the Serbian genocide in Kosovo accelerated the rise of islamism. Islamic countries simply did not have governmental resources, funding or structures, to help the Kosovars. islamic charities popped up, raised incredible amounts of money from devout Muslims. They quickly became a clandestine conduit for military support for the Kosovars, effectively propagating an islamic insurgency in Europe.

You can thank the Serbs for that. They caused it by engaging in their own religious holocaust that prompted an islamic backlash.

you can't genocide your way out of a problem the way the Serbs tried to do it. They were quite stupid. Don't be like them.

---

The Serbs would have won if the US had simply stepped aside!

Christianity would have won!

The white native European population would have won!

The only dummies were the Baby Boomer generation who allowed the filth in our government to proceed with their anti-Christian, anti-white air strikes

---

and Turkey would have left Nato andnow be playihng footsie with Russia......
and the price of oil from OPEC would have soared......

I understand where you're coming from. I also understand the world is full over very inconvenient realities. A small state that tries to kill its way thru a demographic inconvenience is going to face intervention. If Europe tolerates a genocide against muslims, the islamic world is going to start poking Europe in the eyes.

Stability in the shatterzone is paramount to powers great and small.........

---

Actually Russia would have been playing footsie with Europe as a majority white, majority Christian country.

Russia has had its own struggles with Islamic extremism and people in Moscow arent exactly thrilled with a bunch of central asian types taking advantage of their hospitality and breeding over the native population.

Between all the energy produced by Russia, North America, and South America - Europe wouldnt need middle eastern energy.

I am always left with the startling realization that "our greatest ally" and its co-religionists are driving us to be dependent on middle eastern energy production so it keeps us in the region and keeps the money flowing from America to the middle east. We get poorer and poorer the middle east gets richer and richer.

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What is your ethnicity and religious orientation?

If you are white Christian or a white agnostic and you believe bombing the Serbs made you and your family's future more safe and prosperous, you are a ****ing idiot.

---

the Serbian genocide in Kosovo accelerated the rise of islamism. Islamic countries simply did not have governmental resources, funding or structures, to help the Kosovars. islamic charities popped up, raised incredible amounts of money from devout Muslims. They quickly became a clandestine conduit for military support for the Kosovars, effectively propagating an islamic insurgency in Europe.

You can thank the Serbs for that. They caused it by engaging in their own religious holocaust that prompted an islamic backlash.

you can't genocide your way out of a problem the way the Serbs tried to do it. They were quite stupid. Don't be like them.

---

The Serbs would have won if the US had simply stepped aside!

Christianity would have won!

The white native European population would have won!

The only dummies were the Baby Boomer generation who allowed the filth in our government to proceed with their anti-Christian, anti-white air strikes

---

and Turkey would have left Nato andnow be playihng footsie with Russia......
and the price of oil from OPEC would have soared......

I understand where you're coming from. I also understand the world is full over very inconvenient realities. A small state that tries to kill its way thru a demographic inconvenience is going to face intervention. If Europe tolerates a genocide against muslims, the islamic world is going to start poking Europe in the eyes.

Stability in the shatterzone is paramount to powers great and small.........

---

Actually Russia would have been playing footsie with Europe as a majority white, majority Christian country.
Russia has been invaded more often recently from the west than from muslims or Asians. and you see that reflected in their foreign policy concerns.
Russia has had its own struggles with Islamic extremism and people in Moscow arent exactly thrilled with a bunch of central asian types taking advantage of their hospitality and breeding over the native population.
It's a domestic problem far more than a foreign policy concern.

Between all the energy produced by Russia, North America, and South America - Europe wouldnt need middle eastern energy.
The problem with American oil/gas is that it's a long supply chain and far more easily interdictable than pipelines from Russia or Middle East. That's where Ukraine comes in. Vast reserves of gas have been discovered in Donbas and coastal areas surrounding Crimea. Not enough to make other sources irrelevant, but enough to matter. Fact is, Europe needs diversification on energy sources. It needs trans-Mediterranean pipelines, trans-Anatolian pipelines (carrying Arabian Peninsular resource), AND Russian pipelines to add to the North Sea fields.

I am always left with the startling realization that "our greatest ally" and its co-religionists are driving us to be dependent on middle eastern energy production so it keeps us in the region and keeps the money flowing from America to the middle east. We get poorer and poorer the middle east gets richer and richer.
GOP has pointedly not done that. "Drill baby drill."

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What is your ethnicity and religious orientation?

If you are white Christian or a white agnostic and you believe bombing the Serbs made you and your family's future more safe and prosperous, you are a ****ing idiot.

---

the Serbian genocide in Kosovo accelerated the rise of islamism. Islamic countries simply did not have governmental resources, funding or structures, to help the Kosovars. islamic charities popped up, raised incredible amounts of money from devout Muslims. They quickly became a clandestine conduit for military support for the Kosovars, effectively propagating an islamic insurgency in Europe.

You can thank the Serbs for that. They caused it by engaging in their own religious holocaust that prompted an islamic backlash.

you can't genocide your way out of a problem the way the Serbs tried to do it. They were quite stupid. Don't be like them.

---

The Serbs would have won if the US had simply stepped aside!

Christianity would have won!

The white native European population would have won!

The only dummies were the Baby Boomer generation who allowed the filth in our government to proceed with their anti-Christian, anti-white air strikes

---

and Turkey would have left Nato andnow be playihng footsie with Russia......
and the price of oil from OPEC would have soared......

I understand where you're coming from. I also understand the world is full over very inconvenient realities. A small state that tries to kill its way thru a demographic inconvenience is going to face intervention. If Europe tolerates a genocide against muslims, the islamic world is going to start poking Europe in the eyes.

Stability in the shatterzone is paramount to powers great and small.........

---

Actually Russia would have been playing footsie with Europe as a majority white, majority Christian country.

Russia has had its own struggles with Islamic extremism and people in Moscow arent exactly thrilled with a bunch of central asian types taking advantage of their hospitality and breeding over the native population.

Between all the energy produced by Russia, North America, and South America - Europe wouldnt need middle eastern energy.

I am always left with the startling realization that "our greatest ally" and its co-religionists are driving us to be dependent on middle eastern energy production so it keeps us in the region and keeps the money flowing from America to the middle east. We get poorer and poorer the middle east gets richer and richer.

---

With every passing year, I find "who does or does not hate Jesus" to be an increasingly valuable tool in analyzing foreign policy.

The American leftist mostly hates Israel because he thinks Israelis are white and Palestinians are brown.

This isn’t true, it’s more complicated, but this is as far as he thinks it out. It’s a reflection of our education system.

— FischerKing (@FischerKing64) October 12, 2024

Realitybites said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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What is your ethnicity and religious orientation?

If you are white Christian or a white agnostic and you believe bombing the Serbs made you and your family's future more safe and prosperous, you are a ****ing idiot.

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the Serbian genocide in Kosovo accelerated the rise of islamism. Islamic countries simply did not have governmental resources, funding or structures, to help the Kosovars. islamic charities popped up, raised incredible amounts of money from devout Muslims. They quickly became a clandestine conduit for military support for the Kosovars, effectively propagating an islamic insurgency in Europe.

You can thank the Serbs for that. They caused it by engaging in their own religious holocaust that prompted an islamic backlash.

you can't genocide your way out of a problem the way the Serbs tried to do it. They were quite stupid. Don't be like them.

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The Serbs would have won if the US had simply stepped aside!

Christianity would have won!

The white native European population would have won!

The only dummies were the Baby Boomer generation who allowed the filth in our government to proceed with their anti-Christian, anti-white air strikes

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and Turkey would have left Nato andnow be playihng footsie with Russia......
and the price of oil from OPEC would have soared......

I understand where you're coming from. I also understand the world is full over very inconvenient realities. A small state that tries to kill its way thru a demographic inconvenience is going to face intervention. If Europe tolerates a genocide against muslims, the islamic world is going to start poking Europe in the eyes.

Stability in the shatterzone is paramount to powers great and small.........

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Actually Russia would have been playing footsie with Europe as a majority white, majority Christian country.

Russia has had its own struggles with Islamic extremism and people in Moscow arent exactly thrilled with a bunch of central asian types taking advantage of their hospitality and breeding over the native population.

Between all the energy produced by Russia, North America, and South America - Europe wouldnt need middle eastern energy.

I am always left with the startling realization that "our greatest ally" and its co-religionists are driving us to be dependent on middle eastern energy production so it keeps us in the region and keeps the money flowing from America to the middle east. We get poorer and poorer the middle east gets richer and richer.

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With every passing year, I find "who does or does not hate Jesus" to be an increasingly valuable tool in analyzing foreign policy.

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history informs us that Euro-Turkish alliance to check Russian expansionism is a centuries-old template. Turkish/Russian alliance against Europe is a 7-yr fling.

To understand that, one must first come to terms with reality that the Turks are a formidable race of 85m people occupying geography of significance which is not "going away." They can facilitate or frustrate US interests. Wise leadership will seek the former rather than the latter.