Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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KaiBear said:

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whiterock said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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He refused to support a barbaric war machine. The U.S. was under no obligation to help them with that. FDR did what was in America's interest and the decision to attack Pearl Harbor rests completely on Japan's leaders. It's similar to blaming Israel for the terror attacks on October 7 or the U.S. for September 11, 2001. Blaming the victim is almost always an exercise in propaganda & nothing more.

---

Roosevelt basically put the interests of the Chinese against the lives of American servicemen.

The war between Japan and China had absolutely nothing to do with the United States .

Cutting off US oil exports to Japan brought on the attack on Pearl Harbor resulting in WW 2.

And over 500,000 Americans died as a result.

When the war was over….China was not conquered by Japan.

But soon became COMMUNIST.


Americans died for nothing.

---

Good grief your head is full of mush. I mean, really. We are obligated to let an imperial rival power have as much of Asia as it wants and it is of no importance to us? Like we raw materials & export markets are inconsequential to us.....or that Japan & Germany would never consolidate their positions in Europe and Asia then move on to build empire in the Americas? Every war we've ever fought is OUR fault?

You're waaay too smart for such crackpottery.

---

Facts don't lie.

The end results of WW2 simply replaced Hitler and Tojo
with Mao and Stalin.

Not remotely worth the lives of half a million Americans.

Even now Biden seems determined to bring on WW3 despite the unwillingness of Americans to potentially fight and die for a country most couldn't find on a map.

---

Hindsight is 20-20

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True


However repeating the same blunders is criminal.

Especially when it's other peoples lives being put at risk.

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The War was anything but criminal. The blunders, like so many conflicts throughout ours and others history, was the post war resolution strategies. WW2 post war strategies had a number of successes and some failures, primarily being easy on the USSR.

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The security of the United States was not threatened by a war between China and Japan. Yet we intervened with an oil embargo anyway.

The security of the United States was not threatened by a war between Germany and the Soviet Union / Great Britain.
Yet we intervened with an undeclared naval war against Germany anyway.

Eventually retaliation from Japan brought the war to the American people and over 500,000 were killed and many
more permanently crippled.

Only to put Stalin in control of much of Europe and Mao to become the dominant force in the Far East.


This is not hard.


FDR blundered but it was primarily the American middle class and poor who made the sacrifices.


And Biden is putting all of us at risk still again.

---

My Great Uncle was on the USS Panay that was sunk in the Yangtze in 1937. He believed it fully intentional including the attacks on the U.S. oil freighters they targeted. After recovering from some minor burn wounds he was then assigned to the USS Raleigh at Pearl Harbor. We had interests in China and all over the Far East that they ramped up their threats. Our sanction was the only peaceful way to get them to the negotiating table. They chose war.

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Japan begged us to negotiate and was ignored time after time.

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Wrong. They invaded places like China and Indo-China, signed the Tripartite Pact, and begged us not to interrupt their war machine intentions.

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They were at least ready to leave Indochina and all of China except for a small buffer zone against Russia. And again, they requested negotiations repeatedly in the months leading up to Pearl Harbor. We chose war instead.

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We asked them multiple times to leave and they refused. Not sure you understand what was happening over there. Just look at what they were doing in Korea at that time as a glimpse at the plan.

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Their plans weren't working out too well. We had intercepted communications to prove it. We didn't care.

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Wut..?

FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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In other news, Georgia is experiencing what some are calling its "Maidan moment," with anti-Russian protests brewing in the capital.

What are the odds that these 100% organic and spontaneous riots would break out just as Biden is shuffling off the stage?

---

Same odds as martial law being declared in SoKo, and Syria on the verge of imminent collapse thus forcing evac of the Russian fleet from Tartus.

Pay attention: WWIII is underway, in the proxy phase.

---

Not a surprising post. Nothing is more CIA than cheering on Islamic terrorists…as long as they oppose Russia, of course.

I'm sure it will end so much better this time.

---

I wasn't cheering it on, just noting its occurrence and connection to the bigger picture which you reflexively ignore.

But, for the record, I indeed would rather a Turkish proxy to be in charge in Damascus than an Iranian proxy, as Syria would then be under influence of a Nato ally rather than a religious theocracy that chants "Death To America" and hires proxies to launch at every opportunity hot attacks against not just our interests but the entire western order. It also sharply curtails Iranian efforts to maintain material support to Hizballah, which benefits both Israel and Lebanon, which would derivatively improve regional stability as a whole. (You want Israel to stop invading Lebanon, you have to stop Lebanon from being used to fire rockets into Israel....). Finally, it means direct Turkish intervention in Syria would not involve Russian or Chinese interests, meaning bringing an errant Syrian regime to heel does not upset the entire international order.

Loss of the Russian base at Tartus is not just a strategic degradation of Russian power. It also means that Iranian submarines now cannot patrol the Mediterranean *(I.E. the entire southern flank of Nato). They are now tethered to home ports in Iran = reduced threat to our CBGs, except on one-way suicide missions.

One must work hard at being obtuse enough to miss all that but, to your credit, you do burn the midnight oil. Knock yourself out trying to explain how it would be, on balance, a worse situation than we have now.

---

Russia, Russia, Russia...and of course peace through extremism. You people never learn.

You'd have to work hard not to see that Iran is one of the main sources of stability in the region.

Israel will always suffer attacks until it ceases its illegal occupations and genocide, or until it ceases to exist as a state. Unfortunately this is no dilemma for someone like Netanyahu. He's clearly chosen the latter.

As for NATO, it's a relic of the past. It can't even defend Ukraine, much less Europe. The empire is finished. We're just hoping it doesn't take the rest of the world with it.

---

When did it become NATOs job to defend Ukraine?

---

I don't know. Ask Joe Biden.

Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

In other news, Georgia is experiencing what some are calling its "Maidan moment," with anti-Russian protests brewing in the capital.

What are the odds that these 100% organic and spontaneous riots would break out just as Biden is shuffling off the stage?

---

Same odds as martial law being declared in SoKo, and Syria on the verge of imminent collapse thus forcing evac of the Russian fleet from Tartus.

Pay attention: WWIII is underway, in the proxy phase.

---

Not a surprising post. Nothing is more CIA than cheering on Islamic terrorists…as long as they oppose Russia, of course.

I'm sure it will end so much better this time.

---

I wasn't cheering it on, just noting its occurrence and connection to the bigger picture which you reflexively ignore.

But, for the record, I indeed would rather a Turkish proxy to be in charge in Damascus than an Iranian proxy, as Syria would then be under influence of a Nato ally rather than a religious theocracy that chants "Death To America" and hires proxies to launch at every opportunity hot attacks against not just our interests but the entire western order. It also sharply curtails Iranian efforts to maintain material support to Hizballah, which benefits both Israel and Lebanon, which would derivatively improve regional stability as a whole. (You want Israel to stop invading Lebanon, you have to stop Lebanon from being used to fire rockets into Israel....). Finally, it means direct Turkish intervention in Syria would not involve Russian or Chinese interests, meaning bringing an errant Syrian regime to heel does not upset the entire international order.

Loss of the Russian base at Tartus is not just a strategic degradation of Russian power. It also means that Iranian submarines now cannot patrol the Mediterranean *(I.E. the entire southern flank of Nato). They are now tethered to home ports in Iran = reduced threat to our CBGs, except on one-way suicide missions.

One must work hard at being obtuse enough to miss all that but, to your credit, you do burn the midnight oil. Knock yourself out trying to explain how it would be, on balance, a worse situation than we have now.

---

Russia, Russia, Russia...and of course peace through extremism. You people never learn.

You'd have to work hard not to see that Iran is one of the main sources of stability in the region.

Israel will always suffer attacks until it ceases its illegal occupations and genocide, or until it ceases to exist as a state. Unfortunately this is no dilemma for someone like Netanyahu. He's clearly chosen the latter.

As for NATO, it's a relic of the past. It can't even defend Ukraine, much less Europe. The empire is finished. We're just hoping it doesn't take the rest of the world with it.

---

You're just trolling now.

Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

In other news, Georgia is experiencing what some are calling its "Maidan moment," with anti-Russian protests brewing in the capital.

What are the odds that these 100% organic and spontaneous riots would break out just as Biden is shuffling off the stage?

---

Same odds as martial law being declared in SoKo, and Syria on the verge of imminent collapse thus forcing evac of the Russian fleet from Tartus.

Pay attention: WWIII is underway, in the proxy phase.

---

Not a surprising post. Nothing is more CIA than cheering on Islamic terrorists…as long as they oppose Russia, of course.

I'm sure it will end so much better this time.

---

I wasn't cheering it on, just noting its occurrence and connection to the bigger picture which you reflexively ignore.

But, for the record, I indeed would rather a Turkish proxy to be in charge in Damascus than an Iranian proxy, as Syria would then be under influence of a Nato ally rather than a religious theocracy that chants "Death To America" and hires proxies to launch at every opportunity hot attacks against not just our interests but the entire western order. It also sharply curtails Iranian efforts to maintain material support to Hizballah, which benefits both Israel and Lebanon, which would derivatively improve regional stability as a whole. (You want Israel to stop invading Lebanon, you have to stop Lebanon from being used to fire rockets into Israel....). Finally, it means direct Turkish intervention in Syria would not involve Russian or Chinese interests, meaning bringing an errant Syrian regime to heel does not upset the entire international order.

Loss of the Russian base at Tartus is not just a strategic degradation of Russian power. It also means that Iranian submarines now cannot patrol the Mediterranean *(I.E. the entire southern flank of Nato). They are now tethered to home ports in Iran = reduced threat to our CBGs, except on one-way suicide missions.

One must work hard at being obtuse enough to miss all that but, to your credit, you do burn the midnight oil. Knock yourself out trying to explain how it would be, on balance, a worse situation than we have now.

---

Russia, Russia, Russia...and of course peace through extremism. You people never learn.

You'd have to work hard not to see that Iran is one of the main sources of stability in the region.

Israel will always suffer attacks until it ceases its illegal occupations and genocide, or until it ceases to exist as a state. Unfortunately this is no dilemma for someone like Netanyahu. He's clearly chosen the latter.

As for NATO, it's a relic of the past. It can't even defend Ukraine, much less Europe. The empire is finished. We're just hoping it doesn't take the rest of the world with it.

---

When did it become NATOs job to defend Ukraine?

---

I don't know. Ask Joe Biden.

---

Once again, you seem to miss what we have done in Ukraine, sell weapons and provide money. Not defend. We have not defended Ukraine. If we did, Russia would not be in Dombas. There would be a lot of burning T-90s.

I think the war on terror has dulled everyone's view of a full armored battle. A US combined arms Combat Brigade is in a different galaxy than what you are seeing in Ukraine. Ukraine is tank country, you get a Armored (heavy) Combat Brigade there, it is a different animal than the Light infantry stuff we used in the Middle East. When firing on all cylinders, Russia has not seen anything in that level. Don't think we defended anything, we supplied. Huge difference.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

In other news, Georgia is experiencing what some are calling its "Maidan moment," with anti-Russian protests brewing in the capital.

What are the odds that these 100% organic and spontaneous riots would break out just as Biden is shuffling off the stage?

---

Same odds as martial law being declared in SoKo, and Syria on the verge of imminent collapse thus forcing evac of the Russian fleet from Tartus.

Pay attention: WWIII is underway, in the proxy phase.

---

Not a surprising post. Nothing is more CIA than cheering on Islamic terrorists…as long as they oppose Russia, of course.

I'm sure it will end so much better this time.

---

I wasn't cheering it on, just noting its occurrence and connection to the bigger picture which you reflexively ignore.

But, for the record, I indeed would rather a Turkish proxy to be in charge in Damascus than an Iranian proxy, as Syria would then be under influence of a Nato ally rather than a religious theocracy that chants "Death To America" and hires proxies to launch at every opportunity hot attacks against not just our interests but the entire western order. It also sharply curtails Iranian efforts to maintain material support to Hizballah, which benefits both Israel and Lebanon, which would derivatively improve regional stability as a whole. (You want Israel to stop invading Lebanon, you have to stop Lebanon from being used to fire rockets into Israel....). Finally, it means direct Turkish intervention in Syria would not involve Russian or Chinese interests, meaning bringing an errant Syrian regime to heel does not upset the entire international order.

Loss of the Russian base at Tartus is not just a strategic degradation of Russian power. It also means that Iranian submarines now cannot patrol the Mediterranean *(I.E. the entire southern flank of Nato). They are now tethered to home ports in Iran = reduced threat to our CBGs, except on one-way suicide missions.

One must work hard at being obtuse enough to miss all that but, to your credit, you do burn the midnight oil. Knock yourself out trying to explain how it would be, on balance, a worse situation than we have now.

---

Russia, Russia, Russia...and of course peace through extremism. You people never learn.

You'd have to work hard not to see that Iran is one of the main sources of stability in the region.

Israel will always suffer attacks until it ceases its illegal occupations and genocide, or until it ceases to exist as a state. Unfortunately this is no dilemma for someone like Netanyahu. He's clearly chosen the latter.

As for NATO, it's a relic of the past. It can't even defend Ukraine, much less Europe. The empire is finished. We're just hoping it doesn't take the rest of the world with it.

---

So you're on the Iranian payroll, too?

Bill Clinton: "Young people know that a lot more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis & I tell them what Arafat walked away from; they can’t believe it…he walked away from a Palestinian state, with a capital in East Jerusalem, 96% of the West Bank…"

(via @eladgil) pic.twitter.com/Gwr22Rf34f

— Daniel Dreymann (@Dreymann) December 6, 2024

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

In other news, Georgia is experiencing what some are calling its "Maidan moment," with anti-Russian protests brewing in the capital.

What are the odds that these 100% organic and spontaneous riots would break out just as Biden is shuffling off the stage?

---

Same odds as martial law being declared in SoKo, and Syria on the verge of imminent collapse thus forcing evac of the Russian fleet from Tartus.

Pay attention: WWIII is underway, in the proxy phase.

---

Not a surprising post. Nothing is more CIA than cheering on Islamic terrorists…as long as they oppose Russia, of course.

I'm sure it will end so much better this time.

---

I wasn't cheering it on, just noting its occurrence and connection to the bigger picture which you reflexively ignore.

But, for the record, I indeed would rather a Turkish proxy to be in charge in Damascus than an Iranian proxy, as Syria would then be under influence of a Nato ally rather than a religious theocracy that chants "Death To America" and hires proxies to launch at every opportunity hot attacks against not just our interests but the entire western order. It also sharply curtails Iranian efforts to maintain material support to Hizballah, which benefits both Israel and Lebanon, which would derivatively improve regional stability as a whole. (You want Israel to stop invading Lebanon, you have to stop Lebanon from being used to fire rockets into Israel....). Finally, it means direct Turkish intervention in Syria would not involve Russian or Chinese interests, meaning bringing an errant Syrian regime to heel does not upset the entire international order.

Loss of the Russian base at Tartus is not just a strategic degradation of Russian power. It also means that Iranian submarines now cannot patrol the Mediterranean *(I.E. the entire southern flank of Nato). They are now tethered to home ports in Iran = reduced threat to our CBGs, except on one-way suicide missions.

One must work hard at being obtuse enough to miss all that but, to your credit, you do burn the midnight oil. Knock yourself out trying to explain how it would be, on balance, a worse situation than we have now.

---

Russia, Russia, Russia...and of course peace through extremism. You people never learn.

You'd have to work hard not to see that Iran is one of the main sources of stability in the region.

Israel will always suffer attacks until it ceases its illegal occupations and genocide, or until it ceases to exist as a state. Unfortunately this is no dilemma for someone like Netanyahu. He's clearly chosen the latter.

As for NATO, it's a relic of the past. It can't even defend Ukraine, much less Europe. The empire is finished. We're just hoping it doesn't take the rest of the world with it.

---

So you're on the Iranian payroll, too?

---

I mean they're one of the primaries in 3 current hot wars (Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, and Yemen), are a major weapon supplier to Russia, and they've actively efforted to assassinate several world leaders including the U.S. President. How else could one not see them as a source of regional stability?

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

In other news, Georgia is experiencing what some are calling its "Maidan moment," with anti-Russian protests brewing in the capital.

What are the odds that these 100% organic and spontaneous riots would break out just as Biden is shuffling off the stage?

---

Same odds as martial law being declared in SoKo, and Syria on the verge of imminent collapse thus forcing evac of the Russian fleet from Tartus.

Pay attention: WWIII is underway, in the proxy phase.

---

Not a surprising post. Nothing is more CIA than cheering on Islamic terrorists…as long as they oppose Russia, of course.

I'm sure it will end so much better this time.

---

I wasn't cheering it on, just noting its occurrence and connection to the bigger picture which you reflexively ignore.

But, for the record, I indeed would rather a Turkish proxy to be in charge in Damascus than an Iranian proxy, as Syria would then be under influence of a Nato ally rather than a religious theocracy that chants "Death To America" and hires proxies to launch at every opportunity hot attacks against not just our interests but the entire western order. It also sharply curtails Iranian efforts to maintain material support to Hizballah, which benefits both Israel and Lebanon, which would derivatively improve regional stability as a whole. (You want Israel to stop invading Lebanon, you have to stop Lebanon from being used to fire rockets into Israel....). Finally, it means direct Turkish intervention in Syria would not involve Russian or Chinese interests, meaning bringing an errant Syrian regime to heel does not upset the entire international order.

Loss of the Russian base at Tartus is not just a strategic degradation of Russian power. It also means that Iranian submarines now cannot patrol the Mediterranean *(I.E. the entire southern flank of Nato). They are now tethered to home ports in Iran = reduced threat to our CBGs, except on one-way suicide missions.

One must work hard at being obtuse enough to miss all that but, to your credit, you do burn the midnight oil. Knock yourself out trying to explain how it would be, on balance, a worse situation than we have now.

---

Russia, Russia, Russia...and of course peace through extremism. You people never learn.

You'd have to work hard not to see that Iran is one of the main sources of stability in the region.

Israel will always suffer attacks until it ceases its illegal occupations and genocide, or until it ceases to exist as a state. Unfortunately this is no dilemma for someone like Netanyahu. He's clearly chosen the latter.

As for NATO, it's a relic of the past. It can't even defend Ukraine, much less Europe. The empire is finished. We're just hoping it doesn't take the rest of the world with it.

---

So you're on the Iranian payroll, too?

---

"You'd have to work hard not to see that Iran is one of the main sources of stability in the region."

Do you just throw out the most outlandish comments to see the reaction? Iran has done wonders for safety in the Straights of Hormuz, right? Yemen. Land of peace and stability.

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

In other news, Georgia is experiencing what some are calling its "Maidan moment," with anti-Russian protests brewing in the capital.

What are the odds that these 100% organic and spontaneous riots would break out just as Biden is shuffling off the stage?

---

Same odds as martial law being declared in SoKo, and Syria on the verge of imminent collapse thus forcing evac of the Russian fleet from Tartus.

Pay attention: WWIII is underway, in the proxy phase.

---

Not a surprising post. Nothing is more CIA than cheering on Islamic terrorists…as long as they oppose Russia, of course.

I'm sure it will end so much better this time.

---

I wasn't cheering it on, just noting its occurrence and connection to the bigger picture which you reflexively ignore.

But, for the record, I indeed would rather a Turkish proxy to be in charge in Damascus than an Iranian proxy, as Syria would then be under influence of a Nato ally rather than a religious theocracy that chants "Death To America" and hires proxies to launch at every opportunity hot attacks against not just our interests but the entire western order. It also sharply curtails Iranian efforts to maintain material support to Hizballah, which benefits both Israel and Lebanon, which would derivatively improve regional stability as a whole. (You want Israel to stop invading Lebanon, you have to stop Lebanon from being used to fire rockets into Israel....). Finally, it means direct Turkish intervention in Syria would not involve Russian or Chinese interests, meaning bringing an errant Syrian regime to heel does not upset the entire international order.

Loss of the Russian base at Tartus is not just a strategic degradation of Russian power. It also means that Iranian submarines now cannot patrol the Mediterranean *(I.E. the entire southern flank of Nato). They are now tethered to home ports in Iran = reduced threat to our CBGs, except on one-way suicide missions.

One must work hard at being obtuse enough to miss all that but, to your credit, you do burn the midnight oil. Knock yourself out trying to explain how it would be, on balance, a worse situation than we have now.

---

Russia, Russia, Russia...and of course peace through extremism. You people never learn.

You'd have to work hard not to see that Iran is one of the main sources of stability in the region.

Israel will always suffer attacks until it ceases its illegal occupations and genocide, or until it ceases to exist as a state. Unfortunately this is no dilemma for someone like Netanyahu. He's clearly chosen the latter.

As for NATO, it's a relic of the past. It can't even defend Ukraine, much less Europe. The empire is finished. We're just hoping it doesn't take the rest of the world with it.

---

So you're on the Iranian payroll, too?

---

I mean they're one of the primaries in 3 current hot wars (Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, and Yemen), are a major weapon supplier to Russia, and they've actively efforted to assassinate several world leaders including the U.S. President. How else could one not see them as a source of regional stability?

---

....don't forget the Houthis lobbing missiles at multiple US allies as well as international shipping in the Red Sea....

I suspect it was a typo and the intent was to say that Iran was a source of instability. It's an obvious truth. At least that's what I hope he meant.

historian said:

---

I suspect it was a typo and the intent was to say that Iran was a source of instability. It's an obvious truth. At least that's what I hope he meant.

---

afraid not. He's just pushing narratives with no regard for reality. We should chip in and buy him a black beret and olive tunic with epaulets for Christmas, to complete the set.

I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. As posted, the statement is complete & obvious nonsense. A double negative can be confusing, however.

historian said:

---

I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. As posted, the statement is complete & obvious nonsense. A double negative can be confusing, however.

---

Either that or some "Cards Against Humanity" legal defense practice game.
Defend Putin
Defend Iran
Defend Pearl Harbor
Defend Stalin
Defend Pol Pot

Do not agree with the comments in post, but the map is very, very good. It shows how Damascus is about to be cut off from the Alawite homeland in the NW Syrian coast region, and how the most obvious play for Assad would be to call in Hizballah for support. But he cannot do that since Israel has just minced Hizballah up into small pieces. Widespread reports of panic in Damascus. Assad has already sent his family to Russia. He may not survive the weekend.

#Syria is falling into hands of #terrorists much like #Afghanistan fell to the #Taliban before the rushed #US withdrawal.

We don't support the #Assad regime, but we don't want to see another nation & people under the rule of terrorists.

Don't be fooled by jihadi statements. pic.twitter.com/sGgzg37gOW

— 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗔𝗡𝗗𝗘𝗟𝗘𝗩𝗘𝗡® (@commandeleven) December 5, 2024

whiterock said:

---

Do not agree with the comments in post, but the map is very, very good. It shows how Damascus is about to be cut off from the Alawite homeland in the NW Syrian coast region, and how the most obvious play for Assad would be to call in Hizballah for support. But he cannot do that since Israel has just minced Hizballah up into small pieces. Widespread reports of panic in Damascus. Assad has already sent his family to Russia. He may not survive the weekend.

#Syria is falling into hands of #terrorists much like #Afghanistan fell to the #Taliban before the rushed #US withdrawal.

We don't support the #Assad regime, but we don't want to see another nation & people under the rule of terrorists.

Don't be fooled by jihadi statements. pic.twitter.com/sGgzg37gOW

— 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗔𝗡𝗗𝗘𝗟𝗘𝗩𝗘𝗡® (@commandeleven) December 5, 2024

---

Wonder if Tulsi is upset...

Yevhen Matveyev was the mayor of Dniproprudne, in Ukraine. When the Russians occupied, they took him captive. He has now been tortured to death.

Osodecentx said:

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Yevhen Matveyev was the mayor of Dniproprudne, in Ukraine. When the Russians occupied, they took him captive. He has now been tortured to death.

---

I saw a report yesterday that Ukrainian special ops are on the ground directly assisting the Syrian rebels. Apparently they are having quite a profound impact.

whiterock said:

---

Do not agree with the comments in post, but the map is very, very good. It shows how Damascus is about to be cut off from the Alawite homeland in the NW Syrian coast region, and how the most obvious play for Assad would be to call in Hizballah for support. But he cannot do that since Israel has just minced Hizballah up into small pieces. Widespread reports of panic in Damascus. Assad has already sent his family to Russia. He may not survive the weekend.

#Syria is falling into hands of #terrorists much like #Afghanistan fell to the #Taliban before the rushed #US withdrawal.

We don't support the #Assad regime, but we don't want to see another nation & people under the rule of terrorists.

Don't be fooled by jihadi statements. pic.twitter.com/sGgzg37gOW

— 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗔𝗡𝗗𝗘𝗟𝗘𝗩𝗘𝗡® (@commandeleven) December 5, 2024

---

I DO NOT support American involvement in Syria... but from everything I have heard the Assad regime is the only group protecting Syrian Christians. The "rebels" you support slaughter Christians. So with the fall of Assad also comes the end of Christianity in Syria.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Do not agree with the comments in post, but the map is very, very good. It shows how Damascus is about to be cut off from the Alawite homeland in the NW Syrian coast region, and how the most obvious play for Assad would be to call in Hizballah for support. But he cannot do that since Israel has just minced Hizballah up into small pieces. Widespread reports of panic in Damascus. Assad has already sent his family to Russia. He may not survive the weekend.

#Syria is falling into hands of #terrorists much like #Afghanistan fell to the #Taliban before the rushed #US withdrawal.

We don't support the #Assad regime, but we don't want to see another nation & people under the rule of terrorists.

Don't be fooled by jihadi statements. pic.twitter.com/sGgzg37gOW

— 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗔𝗡𝗗𝗘𝗟𝗘𝗩𝗘𝗡® (@commandeleven) December 5, 2024

---

Wonder if Tulsi is upset...

---

Wonder if you'll be upset about all those dead middle eastern Christians...

The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Do not agree with the comments in post, but the map is very, very good. It shows how Damascus is about to be cut off from the Alawite homeland in the NW Syrian coast region, and how the most obvious play for Assad would be to call in Hizballah for support. But he cannot do that since Israel has just minced Hizballah up into small pieces. Widespread reports of panic in Damascus. Assad has already sent his family to Russia. He may not survive the weekend.

#Syria is falling into hands of #terrorists much like #Afghanistan fell to the #Taliban before the rushed #US withdrawal.

We don't support the #Assad regime, but we don't want to see another nation & people under the rule of terrorists.

Don't be fooled by jihadi statements. pic.twitter.com/sGgzg37gOW

— 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗔𝗡𝗗𝗘𝗟𝗘𝗩𝗘𝗡® (@commandeleven) December 5, 2024

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I DO NOT support American involvement in Syria... but from everything I have heard the Assad regime is the only group protecting Syrian Christians. The "rebels" you support slaughter Christians. So with the fall of Assad also comes the end of Christianity in Syria.

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It wasn't that Assad was "protecting" Christians. It's that Christians were a part of the ruling coalition, derivative of the fact that A) both Alawites and Christians are minority groups (clinging to one another for support), and B) the most heavily Christian areas of Syria were in the Alawite region (extreme NW Syria, in the coastal mountains between Lebanon & Turkey). When the Assad govt was formed, Alawites & Christians together were over 40% of the population. Today, that number is about 15%. So demographics are a factor in the stability of the Assad Regime. It once formed a plurality of the population. That is no longer so. And when minority groups fall from power and/or lose political patrons, there is going to be some political payback. Look at Iraqi Sunnis & Kurds, for example.

No one is saying these developments are good for Syrian Christians. I am merely pointing out that we have to weigh the benefits of the change. And the benefits are substantial. Syria is a client state of Iran. Both are on the USG State Sponsor of Terrorism list, Syria for quite a bit longer than Iran. Iran is implacably hostile to the USA, pushing the limits of its ability to kill America and Americans. Iranian money & arms flowed thru Syria via land/sea/air into Hizballah (whose homelands are primarily located along Lebanon's western border with Syria...the Bekaa Valley). Hizballah has killed THOUSANDS of American citizens (not to mention Lebanese Christians) over the decades. Now, look at where Hizballah is today = shattered. ALL of its top leadership command structure moldering in the grave.....billions of dollars of arms & munitions either spent or destroy. They have no resupply route.....the Russian port at Tartus - gone. So no more large missile systems. Military airports at Latakia and Damascus - gone. So no more money & medicine & technical gear. Land route thru Iraq to the Bekaa Valley - gone. Now, Lebanese Shiites are back to their pre-1980 position - merchants & farmers living on stony ground on the wrong side of a coastal mountain range (limited rain).

What western powers have engineered in Syria is no small accomplishment. In 1983, they were a terror group who killed 241 US and 58 French soldiers) in a bombing of the Marine Corps barracks in Beirut (google it). By 2016, Hizballah was a veritable army, 100k strong, an existential threat to both the Lebanese and the Israeli governments (both of which have Christian populations and Christian representation in government).

And, of course, Russia and Iran have lost their logistics hub in the Mediterranean, meaning the entire southern flank of is more secure = hundreds of millions of Christians now more safe from two rogue states and their terrorist proxies.

Enormous accomplishment.
Done with the able assistance of allies (Christian, Jewish, islamic).
Minimal US involvement.

Stop squalling and start thinking.
The fall of the Assad government is the best foreign policy development for the USG in quite a few years.
(remember that next time you feel the urge to regurgitate crap about us never accomplishing anything worthwhile abroad.)

Far too early to determine if Asaud's removal is a good thing for Christians in the region.

Although I am pleased Trump immediately wrote how the US should stay OUT of the fight.

KaiBear said:

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Far too early to determine if Asaud's removal is a good thing for Christians in the region.

Although I am pleased Trump immediately wrote how the US should stay OUT of the fight.

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...ahem.....

BREAKING 🚨

Syrian Christians celebrate Assad’s downfall under a Christmas tree, in front of their church, with its bells ringing.

They chant:
“Syrians united, we are one people.” pic.twitter.com/8wPSfIlJk6

— Open Source Intel (@Osint613) December 8, 2024

Meet The New Boss, Worse Than The Old Boss

Link

"...Abu Mohammed al-Julani, who stands at the head of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), a group that has become the most powerful armed opposition force in Syria.

As the founder of HTS, al-Julani has nearly a decade sought to dissociate himself from other armed forces and their focus on transnational operations, switching instead to focusing on creating an "Islamic republic" in Syria.

Al-Julani coordinated in those early years with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, head of al-Qaeda's "Islamic State in Iraq", which later became ISIL (ISIS).

In April 2013, al-Baghdadi suddenly announced that his group was cutting ties with al-Qaeda and would expand into Syria, effectively swallowing al-Nusra Front into a new group called ISIL.

Al-Julani rejected this change, maintaining his allegiance to al-Qaeda.

During his first televised interview in 2014, he told Al Jazeera that Syria should be ruled under his group's interpretation of "Islamic law" and the country's minorities, such as Christians and Alawis would not be accommodated.

The stated aim of HTS is...establishing a state according to their own interpretation of "Islamic law", according to the Centre for Strategic and International Studies think-tank in Washington, DC."

The guy is basically the head of a Sunni Hezbollah. Just to be clear, our deep state working with an article 5 NATO ally overthrew the last secular government in the middle east to install someone like Osama Bin Laden. Well done guys. If you want to know why the deep state has no credibility, look in the mirror.

https://unherd.com/newsroom/fall-of-assad-leaves-putin-isolated-and-powerless/

**Edit** Sorry Reality... I thought I was replying to one of our resident Christian Zionists, whiterock.

It has nothing to do with American interests. We don't need anything from the middle east. I just read that the US has become the world's largest energy exporter after the last OPEC production cuts.

If we are going to continue to allow American Jews and Israel to buy off and completely control our government with our own tax dolllars to use American lives and resources for the benefit of Israel, we should at least get them to topple the house of Saud.

The only American mass causality event related to the middle east was 9/11 and every single one of the hijackers were Saudi. The house of Saud has been financially supporting wahhabism all over the west.

Yet Saudis were never punished bcs Israelis needed them to remain neutral.

Well now Hezbollah is gone. Hamas is gone. Iran's only remaining allies in the middle east are the Iraqis, gee I guess we wish had left Sadam alone now...

Meanwhile, the house of Saud are nearly universally reviled even amongst Muslims. And are being propped up by the US at Israel's request.

If we are really in this for American interests, let's finally give the house of Saud the spanking they deserved after 9/11.

KaiBear said:

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whiterock said:

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KaiBear said:

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Far too early to determine if Asaud's removal is a good thing for Christians in the region.

Although I am pleased Trump immediately wrote how the US should stay OUT of the fight.

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...ahem.....

BREAKING 🚨

Syrian Christians celebrate Assad’s downfall under a Christmas tree, in front of their church, with its bells ringing.

They chant:
“Syrians united, we are one people.” pic.twitter.com/8wPSfIlJk6

— Open Source Intel (@Osint613) December 8, 2024

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LOL

Yeah first impressions always represent what eventually occurs once rebels solidify their hold .

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those rebels are operating in Christian areas. It's not like they don't have an idea who the guy is.....

The_barBEARian said:

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It has nothing to do with American interests. We don't need anything from the middle east. I just read that the US has become the world's largest energy exporter after the last OPEC production cuts.

If we are going to continue to allow American Jews and Israel to buy off and completely control our government with our own tax dolllars to use American lives and resources for the benefit of Israel, we should at least get them to topple the house of Saud.

The only American mass causality event related to the middle east was 9/11 and every single one of the hijackers were Saudi. The house of Saud has been financially supporting wahhabism all over the west.

Yet Saudis were never punished bcs Israelis needed them to remain neutral.

Well now Hezbollah is gone. Hamas is gone. Iran's only remaining allies in the middle east are the Iraqis, gee I guess we wish had left Sadam alone now...

Meanwhile, the house of Saud are nearly universally reviled even amongst Muslims. And are being propped up by the US at Israel's request.

If we are really in this for American interests, let's finally give the house of Saud the spanking they deserved after 9/11.

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let's talk when you get back to earth.

whiterock said:

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KaiBear said:

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whiterock said:

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KaiBear said:

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Far too early to determine if Asaud's removal is a good thing for Christians in the region.

Although I am pleased Trump immediately wrote how the US should stay OUT of the fight.

---

...ahem.....

BREAKING 🚨

Syrian Christians celebrate Assad’s downfall under a Christmas tree, in front of their church, with its bells ringing.

They chant:
“Syrians united, we are one people.” pic.twitter.com/8wPSfIlJk6

— Open Source Intel (@Osint613) December 8, 2024

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LOL

Yeah first impressions always represent what eventually occurs once rebels solidify their hold .

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those rebels are operating in Christian areas. It's not like they don't have an idea who the guy is.....

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The US State Department certainly understands who these rebels are, and exactly what they represent.

Time will tell how this all plays out.

whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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It has nothing to do with American interests. We don't need anything from the middle east. I just read that the US has become the world's largest energy exporter after the last OPEC production cuts.

If we are going to continue to allow American Jews and Israel to buy off and completely control our government with our own tax dolllars to use American lives and resources for the benefit of Israel, we should at least get them to topple the house of Saud.

The only American mass causality event related to the middle east was 9/11 and every single one of the hijackers were Saudi. The house of Saud has been financially supporting wahhabism all over the west.

Yet Saudis were never punished bcs Israelis needed them to remain neutral.

Well now Hezbollah is gone. Hamas is gone. Iran's only remaining allies in the middle east are the Iraqis, gee I guess we wish had left Sadam alone now...

Meanwhile, the house of Saud are nearly universally reviled even amongst Muslims. And are being propped up by the US at Israel's request.

If we are really in this for American interests, let's finally give the house of Saud the spanking they deserved after 9/11.

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let's talk when you get back to earth.

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lol.

You are the guy cheering on the former leader of ISIS, al-Baghdadi's right hand man becoming the de facto leader of Syria.

The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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It has nothing to do with American interests. We don't need anything from the middle east. I just read that the US has become the world's largest energy exporter after the last OPEC production cuts.

If we are going to continue to allow American Jews and Israel to buy off and completely control our government with our own tax dolllars to use American lives and resources for the benefit of Israel, we should at least get them to topple the house of Saud.

The only American mass causality event related to the middle east was 9/11 and every single one of the hijackers were Saudi. The house of Saud has been financially supporting wahhabism all over the west.

Yet Saudis were never punished bcs Israelis needed them to remain neutral.

Well now Hezbollah is gone. Hamas is gone. Iran's only remaining allies in the middle east are the Iraqis, gee I guess we wish had left Sadam alone now...

Meanwhile, the house of Saud are nearly universally reviled even amongst Muslims. And are being propped up by the US at Israel's request.

If we are really in this for American interests, let's finally give the house of Saud the spanking they deserved after 9/11.

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let's talk when you get back to earth.

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lol.

You are the guy cheering on the former leader of ISIS, al-Baghdadi's right hand man becoming the de facto leader of Syria.

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no, I'm not cheering him on. I'm advising that it is quite premature to run around with your hair on fire about imminent genocide of Christians.
-He broke with the people/groups who did the things you cite.
-He has not done the things you cite.
-His enemies, today, are our enemies.
-His patrons are US allies.
-He needs international recognition, and is doing the things necessary to get it.
-He needs international aid, and is doing the things necessary to get it.

What we have in Syria is not the false dilemma your histrionics propose = a choice between a murderous Russian/Iranian proxy supporting Hizballah and Hamas vs a wild-eyed jihadi against the entire civilized world.

What we actually have in Syria is a murderous Russian/Iranian proxy supporting Hizballah and Hamas being replaced by, worst case, an islamist regime who will play Turkey and Saudi Arabia against one another for support. Given that we've been able to maintain productive relationships with Turkey and Saudi Arabia for decades, THAT would be an significant improvement over the Assad regime.

Sure, it would be nice for Syria to become something like an Israeli parliamentary democracy, open to all races & faiths in a free society. But that's not likely in the cards. Nor does it need to be to get us into the "manageable improvement" range. So, on balance, it seems quite clear to any rational analysis that we are in a much better place today in Syria than we've been in 50yrs.

All you need to focus on as we go forward is this question: "has the genocide of Syrian Christians started yet?"
If that answer is no, then leave the matches alone.

whiterock said:

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Sure, it would be nice for Syria to become something like an Israeli parliamentary democracy, open to all races & faiths in a free society. But that's not likely in the cards.

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Basically what you've admitted here is that you would prefer to see Syria ruled by a Sharia-compliant islamic dictatorship than a secular Baathist dictatorship. Bravo.

You beltway types are every bit as evil as flyover country thinks you are. The stupider ones among you think that the Islamic world can be terraformed for democracy, feminism, and gay rights. The more corrupt among you support color revolutions for pipelines and Blackrock contracts.

By the way, if borders are so sacrosanct, do you have any thoughts on Israel's latest invasion into Syria after the regime change? Or are borders adjustable so long as the IDF is doing it?

This Syria situation is only going to end well for Israel which is par for the course. More refugees will be pushed into Europe while Israel gets to steal more land and block off Iran. The world wouldve been better off with Quadaffi still in Libya, Saddam still in Iraq and Assad still in Syria and any opinion to the contrary is just CIA/Mossad propaganda.

This is why Syria is falling. In case you want to keep calling me a conspiracy theorist

It will happen pic.twitter.com/LK2bi0MQQz

— E (@ElijahSchaffer) December 8, 2024

This is not a conspiracy and anyone familiar with the plans laid out in the Clean Break memo knows exactly what is happening and what is coming next.

Realitybites said:

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whiterock said:

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Sure, it would be nice for Syria to become something like an Israeli parliamentary democracy, open to all races & faiths in a free society. But that's not likely in the cards.

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Basically what you've admitted here is that you would prefer to see Syria ruled by a Sharia-compliant islamic dictatorship than a secular Baathist dictatorship. Bravo.
Great example of what you isolationist nutjobs always do.....just twist everything into your favorite pretzel. I didn't say any such thing. I said Syria run by a Turkish/Saudi ally that kept jihadis away from us and our allies was much preferrable to a Syria run by a Russian/Iranian ally that funded terrorist groups which have killed THOUSANDS of Americans and still hold Americans hostage.

You beltway types are every bit as evil as flyover country thinks you are. The stupider ones among you think that the Islamic world can be terraformed for democracy, feminism, and gay rights. The more corrupt among you support color revolutions for pipelines and Blackrock contracts.
LOL the irony. You are the one making the idealist case that we should do absolutely nothing to oppose one of the two most implacable terror supporting states of the last 50 years, one welded to the hip of the other most implacable terror supporting state of the lat 40 years, just because you believe they won't extend first amendment protections to their own Christians. News flash: no islamic state anywhere extends first amendment protections to ANY of their citizens. that does not mean we cannot have relationships with them that, on balance, improve our national security. In fact, doing so is the rule rather than the exception.

By the way, if borders are so sacrosanct, do you have any thoughts on Israel's latest invasion into Syria after the regime change? Or are borders adjustable so long as the IDF is doing it?
There you go again, making stuff up to slake your irrational anger. Israel has not attacked the Syrian regime for the purpose of regime change. Israel has not laid territorial claims on Mt. Hermon, to include making no steps toward annexation of Mt. Hermon. What it has done is occupy critical high ground in an international buffer zone of a failed state for the purposes of denying sanctuary to terrorist groups, and which would give it greater ability to interdict attacks they are CURRENTLY receiving from inside Lebanon as well as any attacks which might be launched by terrorists who might seek to exploit the instability in Syria to attack Israel. Israel has intimated willingness to negotiate return of the territory to a stable, non-hostile Syrian state. The international community recognizes this, which explains why they have not reacted as Russia did when it repeatedly destabilized and invaded Ukraine over the last decade.

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You really, really suck at the foreign policy thing. Everything is spun to fit your emotions which are quite detached from reality.