Patriarchy Preserves Christian Families

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Realitybites
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11:08a, 12/24/23
"But then, due to spiritual impoverishment and the influence of liberal ideas, the man ceased to be recognized as a patriarch. As a result, a modern woman rarely fulfills what the apostle has commanded not to teach, but to learn from her husband at home (1 Timothy 2:12; 1 Corinthians 14:35). There is no one to learn from now, and worldly wisdom is not enough. The soul of the woman remains hungry, and thus a kind of madness begins. She desires to seize power in the family. The child is often used as an excuse."

"And thus there is a restructuring of the entire family. The child becomes the head of the family, who is served by the mother. The child becomes an idol, the woman becomes his priestess, and the man becomes an economic appendage. As a result, the entire family structure is destroyed, and the man leaves the family to find a place where he feels more comfortable. Thus the family falls apart.'
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TexasScientist
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In reply to Realitybites • 11:54a, 12/24/23
Realitybites said:
"But then, due to spiritual impoverishment and the influence of liberal ideas, the man ceased to be recognized as a patriarch. As a result, a modern woman rarely fulfills what the apostle has commanded not to teach, but to learn from her husband at home (1 Timothy 2:12; 1 Corinthians 14:35). There is no one to learn from now, and worldly wisdom is not enough. The soul of the woman remains hungry, and thus a kind of madness begins. She desires to seize power in the family. The child is often used as an excuse."

"And thus there is a restructuring of the entire family. The child becomes the head of the family, who is served by the mother. The child becomes an idol, the woman becomes his priestess, and the man becomes an economic appendage. As a result, the entire family structure is destroyed, and the man leaves the family to find a place where he feels more comfortable. Thus the family falls apart.'
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to TexasScientist • 12:07p, 12/24/23
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
"But then, due to spiritual impoverishment and the influence of liberal ideas, the man ceased to be recognized as a patriarch. As a result, a modern woman rarely fulfills what the apostle has commanded not to teach, but to learn from her husband at home (1 Timothy 2:12; 1 Corinthians 14:35). There is no one to learn from now, and worldly wisdom is not enough. The soul of the woman remains hungry, and thus a kind of madness begins. She desires to seize power in the family. The child is often used as an excuse."

"And thus there is a restructuring of the entire family. The child becomes the head of the family, who is served by the mother. The child becomes an idol, the woman becomes his priestess, and the man becomes an economic appendage. As a result, the entire family structure is destroyed, and the man leaves the family to find a place where he feels more comfortable. Thus the family falls apart.'
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.


Historic Christianity itself is not a feminist religion

You don't need to be a Muslim to see that matriarchal societies never last long or accomplish much
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TexasScientist
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 2:18p, 12/24/23
Redbrickbear said:
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
"But then, due to spiritual impoverishment and the influence of liberal ideas, the man ceased to be recognized as a patriarch. As a result, a modern woman rarely fulfills what the apostle has commanded not to teach, but to learn from her husband at home (1 Timothy 2:12; 1 Corinthians 14:35). There is no one to learn from now, and worldly wisdom is not enough. The soul of the woman remains hungry, and thus a kind of madness begins. She desires to seize power in the family. The child is often used as an excuse."

"And thus there is a restructuring of the entire family. The child becomes the head of the family, who is served by the mother. The child becomes an idol, the woman becomes his priestess, and the man becomes an economic appendage. As a result, the entire family structure is destroyed, and the man leaves the family to find a place where he feels more comfortable. Thus the family falls apart.'
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.


Historic Christianity itself is not a feminist religion

You don't need to be a Muslim to see that matriarchal societies never last long or accomplish much
I agree. Neither is Judaism, or Islam. Repression and abuse on the grounds of religous justification is the history of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, among other religions around the world.

Most Muslims limit women's rights. Rarely have matriarchal societies arrisen with opportunity to succeed, primarily due to male repression. Education and equal rights of women is essentially a modern concept and phenomena with limited and varied application even today. Deprived of rights, education, and less physical strength, what else would you expect?
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Porteroso
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7:09p, 12/24/23
It's real simple. Back before technology and cars, men had an inherent physical advantage, and the strongest won most fights. We have decided women get to drive, to speak, to show themselves, you know what? To do whatever the **** they want and only beta piss ass males are mad about it.

We decided whoever throws the meanest punch might not be the best business leader, basically. Get with it, or beat your women into submission with your meanest punch. Whatever, you zealots post the worst jokes.
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Realitybites
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In reply to TexasScientist • 7:39p, 12/24/23
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
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TexasScientist
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In reply to Realitybites • 4:02p, 12/25/23
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
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Wangchung
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4:07p, 12/25/23
Love getting lessons on patriarchy from people who cannot identify a woman by their biological traits.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
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muddybrazos
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In reply to TexasScientist • 5:42p, 12/25/23
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
No, women in this day and time have been tricked into thinking that having a career is somehow more fulfilling than having a family. There are tons of vidieos on tick tok and youtube showing unhappy 40 year old cat ladies that believed the lies they were told by Sex and the city. Most women these days would much rather be a stay at home mom with a husband who is the breadwinner. It's the natural order and always has been for a reason,.
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TexasScientist
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In reply to Wangchung • 6:50a, 12/26/23
Wangchung said:
Love getting lessons on patriarchy from people who cannot identify a woman by their biological traits.
Or, from misogynistic incels.
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TexasScientist
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In reply to muddybrazos • 7:12a, 12/26/23
muddybrazos said:
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
No, women in this day and time have been tricked into thinking that having a career is somehow more fulfilling than having a family. There are tons of vidieos on tick tok and youtube showing unhappy 40 year old cat ladies that believed the lies they were told by Sex and the city. Most women these days would much rather be a stay at home mom with a husband who is the breadwinner. It's the natural order and always has been for a reason,.
Right…, Tik Tok and Youtube are definitley reliable sources, LOL. It's amazing how one TV show can upend the "natural world order. " I just don't understand why all of these deadbeat husbands and fathers allow their women out of the house when they clearly shouldn't. They're cluttering up the roads driving around. Trumper men need to get together and have Bryan Hughes sponsor some more well thought out legislation. Revoke their driving privileges, and right to vote. That'll keep them home. Keep'em pregnant and busy with lots of children. I don't guess you could blame men for failing to make enough money so their wives don't have to work. On the other hand, maybe men shouldn't be allowed to marry a woman or father children, until they show they can provide enough money to maintain the "natural world order in their home." A stiff prison term for failure would fix that! Where is Bryan Hughes when you really need him?
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Wangchung
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In reply to TexasScientist • 9:06a, 12/26/23
TexasScientist said:
Wangchung said:
Love getting lessons on patriarchy from people who cannot identify a woman by their biological traits.
Or, from misogynistic incels.
Yep. The biological woman-hating incels who claim being a woman is merely a mindset are no more a reliable source on the patriarchy than any of the rest of the leftists. Good call.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
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KaiBear
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In reply to TexasScientist • 9:09a, 12/26/23
TexasScientist said:
muddybrazos said:
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
No, women in this day and time have been tricked into thinking that having a career is somehow more fulfilling than having a family. There are tons of vidieos on tick tok and youtube showing unhappy 40 year old cat ladies that believed the lies they were told by Sex and the city. Most women these days would much rather be a stay at home mom with a husband who is the breadwinner. It's the natural order and always has been for a reason,.
Right…, Tik Tok and Youtube are definitley reliable sources, LOL. It's amazing how one TV show can upend the "natural world order. " I just don't understand why all of these deadbeat husbands and fathers allow their women out of the house when they clearly shouldn't. They're cluttering up the roads driving around. Trumper men need to get together and have Bryan Hughes sponsor some more well thought out legislation. Revoke their driving privileges, and right to vote. That'll keep them home. Keep'em pregnant and busy with lots of children. I don't guess you could blame men for failing to make enough money so their wives don't have to work. On the other hand, maybe men shouldn't be allowed to marry a woman or father children, until they show they can provide enough money to maintain the "natural world order in their home." A stiff prison term for failure would fix that! Where is Bryan Hughes when you really need him?


No one can legitimately answer for 'all women'.

Though I suspect many women would dearly appreciate the opportunity to stay home with their children and have a stable husband provide enough money to support them all.

Other than the first 3 years of our marriage, I have been the sole breadwinner in our relationship. However after watching all the work my wife has done caring for our extended family, it's obvious I had the easier task.

You married TS ?

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TexasScientist
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In reply to KaiBear • 9:45a, 12/26/23
KaiBear said:
TexasScientist said:
muddybrazos said:
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
No, women in this day and time have been tricked into thinking that having a career is somehow more fulfilling than having a family. There are tons of vidieos on tick tok and youtube showing unhappy 40 year old cat ladies that believed the lies they were told by Sex and the city. Most women these days would much rather be a stay at home mom with a husband who is the breadwinner. It's the natural order and always has been for a reason,.
Right…, Tik Tok and Youtube are definitley reliable sources, LOL. It's amazing how one TV show can upend the "natural world order. " I just don't understand why all of these deadbeat husbands and fathers allow their women out of the house when they clearly shouldn't. They're cluttering up the roads driving around. Trumper men need to get together and have Bryan Hughes sponsor some more well thought out legislation. Revoke their driving privileges, and right to vote. That'll keep them home. Keep'em pregnant and busy with lots of children. I don't guess you could blame men for failing to make enough money so their wives don't have to work. On the other hand, maybe men shouldn't be allowed to marry a woman or father children, until they show they can provide enough money to maintain the "natural world order in their home." A stiff prison term for failure would fix that! Where is Bryan Hughes when you really need him?


No one can legitimately answer for 'all women'.

Though I suspect many women would dearly appreciate the opportunity to stay home with their children and have a stable husband provide enough money to support them all.

Other than the first 3 years of our marriage, I have been the sole breadwinner in our relationship. However after watching all the work my wife has done caring for our extended family, it's obvious I had the easier task.

You married TS ?

Yep.
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KaiBear
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In reply to TexasScientist • 9:55a, 12/26/23
TexasScientist said:
KaiBear said:
TexasScientist said:
muddybrazos said:
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
No, women in this day and time have been tricked into thinking that having a career is somehow more fulfilling than having a family. There are tons of vidieos on tick tok and youtube showing unhappy 40 year old cat ladies that believed the lies they were told by Sex and the city. Most women these days would much rather be a stay at home mom with a husband who is the breadwinner. It's the natural order and always has been for a reason,.
Right…, Tik Tok and Youtube are definitley reliable sources, LOL. It's amazing how one TV show can upend the "natural world order. " I just don't understand why all of these deadbeat husbands and fathers allow their women out of the house when they clearly shouldn't. They're cluttering up the roads driving around. Trumper men need to get together and have Bryan Hughes sponsor some more well thought out legislation. Revoke their driving privileges, and right to vote. That'll keep them home. Keep'em pregnant and busy with lots of children. I don't guess you could blame men for failing to make enough money so their wives don't have to work. On the other hand, maybe men shouldn't be allowed to marry a woman or father children, until they show they can provide enough money to maintain the "natural world order in their home." A stiff prison term for failure would fix that! Where is Bryan Hughes when you really need him?


No one can legitimately answer for 'all women'.

Though I suspect many women would dearly appreciate the opportunity to stay home with their children and have a stable husband provide enough money to support them all.

Other than the first 3 years of our marriage, I have been the sole breadwinner in our relationship. However after watching all the work my wife has done caring for our extended family, it's obvious I had the easier task.

You married TS ?

Yep.


How long ?

Same gal ?
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Waco1947
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In reply to Realitybites • 10:56a, 12/26/23
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".
Says who? The Bible? Why is that patriarchal book written by men the standard for the world?

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
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KaiBear
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11:18a, 12/26/23
LOL

Yours is an amusing description if the Bible.

For the 10th time, where did you receive your theology degree from 'minister' ?

Come in old fella show some integrity for a change.

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TexasScientist
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In reply to KaiBear • 1:31p, 12/26/23
KaiBear said:
TexasScientist said:
KaiBear said:
TexasScientist said:
muddybrazos said:
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
No, women in this day and time have been tricked into thinking that having a career is somehow more fulfilling than having a family. There are tons of vidieos on tick tok and youtube showing unhappy 40 year old cat ladies that believed the lies they were told by Sex and the city. Most women these days would much rather be a stay at home mom with a husband who is the breadwinner. It's the natural order and always has been for a reason,.
Right…, Tik Tok and Youtube are definitley reliable sources, LOL. It's amazing how one TV show can upend the "natural world order. " I just don't understand why all of these deadbeat husbands and fathers allow their women out of the house when they clearly shouldn't. They're cluttering up the roads driving around. Trumper men need to get together and have Bryan Hughes sponsor some more well thought out legislation. Revoke their driving privileges, and right to vote. That'll keep them home. Keep'em pregnant and busy with lots of children. I don't guess you could blame men for failing to make enough money so their wives don't have to work. On the other hand, maybe men shouldn't be allowed to marry a woman or father children, until they show they can provide enough money to maintain the "natural world order in their home." A stiff prison term for failure would fix that! Where is Bryan Hughes when you really need him?


No one can legitimately answer for 'all women'.

Though I suspect many women would dearly appreciate the opportunity to stay home with their children and have a stable husband provide enough money to support them all.

Other than the first 3 years of our marriage, I have been the sole breadwinner in our relationship. However after watching all the work my wife has done caring for our extended family, it's obvious I had the easier task.

You married TS ?

Yep.


How long ?

Same gal ?
20 years.
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Redbrickbear
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11:03p, 12/27/23
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TexasScientist
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 7:30a, 12/28/23
Redbrickbear said:
Just as abusive domineering relationships are not healthy for the mother or the child.
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Porteroso
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In reply to Wangchung • 9:09a, 12/28/23
Wangchung said:
Love getting lessons on patriarchy from people who cannot identify a woman by their biological traits.

Are you though? Look you do need a lot of lessons, on a lot of things, but somehow you are getting confused on who it is that supports biological women and who does not.
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Porteroso
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In reply to KaiBear • 9:13a, 12/28/23
KaiBear said:
TexasScientist said:
muddybrazos said:
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
No, women in this day and time have been tricked into thinking that having a career is somehow more fulfilling than having a family. There are tons of vidieos on tick tok and youtube showing unhappy 40 year old cat ladies that believed the lies they were told by Sex and the city. Most women these days would much rather be a stay at home mom with a husband who is the breadwinner. It's the natural order and always has been for a reason,.
Right…, Tik Tok and Youtube are definitley reliable sources, LOL. It's amazing how one TV show can upend the "natural world order. " I just don't understand why all of these deadbeat husbands and fathers allow their women out of the house when they clearly shouldn't. They're cluttering up the roads driving around. Trumper men need to get together and have Bryan Hughes sponsor some more well thought out legislation. Revoke their driving privileges, and right to vote. That'll keep them home. Keep'em pregnant and busy with lots of children. I don't guess you could blame men for failing to make enough money so their wives don't have to work. On the other hand, maybe men shouldn't be allowed to marry a woman or father children, until they show they can provide enough money to maintain the "natural world order in their home." A stiff prison term for failure would fix that! Where is Bryan Hughes when you really need him?


No one can legitimately answer for 'all women'.

Though I suspect many women would dearly appreciate the opportunity to stay home with their children and have a stable husband provide enough money to support them all.

Other than the first 3 years of our marriage, I have been the sole breadwinner in our relationship. However after watching all the work my wife has done caring for our extended family, it's obvious I had the easier task.

You married TS ?


The thing is, and you might ask your wife this to make sure, some women want a choice in the matter. Your suspicions shouldn't determine squat for all of humanity, and that is exactly the problem. Entitled men who think that a "I suspect" should determine gender roles for everyone.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to TexasScientist • 9:32a, 12/28/23
TexasScientist said:
Redbrickbear said:
Just as abusive domineering relationships are not healthy for the mother or the child.



True.

But Patriarchy does not equal abusive relationship.

I think you, and feminism in general, have made the mistake of assuming it does
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Redbrickbear
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9:38a, 12/28/23
"Men have sacrificed and crippled themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect women and children. None of their pain or achievement is registered in feminist rhetoric, which portrays men as oppressive and callous exploiters."

-Camille Paglia
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Redbrickbear
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10:57a, 12/28/23
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Wangchung
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In reply to Porteroso • 11:46a, 12/28/23
Porteroso said:
Wangchung said:
Love getting lessons on patriarchy from people who cannot identify a woman by their biological traits.

Are you though? Look you do need a lot of lessons, on a lot of things, but somehow you are getting confused on who it is that supports biological women and who does not.
Yeah, it wasn't too hard to figure out who supports women and who hates them. One side says women should have to compete against mentally ill men while the other says competition should be based on biological sex. One side tells them that motherhood is sacred and that even females in womb matter. The other side tells women they are merely birth givers who can be replicated by some makeup and a bad falsetto impersonation and that female lives while in the womb are worthless, to be destroyed on a whim. One side tells women that they should be armed, practiced and disciplined because a restraining order is merely a piece of paper and the other side tells women that the police on the other end of a phone are all they need for protection from violence. One side believes in imprisonment for criminals and the other releases them as fast as they are arrested, because "equity". One side believes in a safe and secure border and the other is happy to accommodate human trafficking aka the sex slave trade. When we look past the rhetoric of "duh republikans HATE WOMEN!!!" and really look at the policies of each side, it's clear which side protects biological women.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
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KaiBear
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In reply to Porteroso • 12:01p, 12/28/23
Porteroso said:
KaiBear said:
TexasScientist said:
muddybrazos said:
TexasScientist said:
Realitybites said:
TexasScientist said:
I'm surprised someone with your misogynistic views hasn't converted to Islam.

Acknowledging that there is a natural created order for headship and family stability is not "misogynistic".

Feminism has had disastrous consequences in western society and for the family.
Your mythical assertion is mysogenistic by definition. There is no objective evidence supporting a natural created order for women.

There is no evidence that equal rights for women has had anything other than positve consequences for society, and women. I think most women prefer western society to your middle eastern society.
No, women in this day and time have been tricked into thinking that having a career is somehow more fulfilling than having a family. There are tons of vidieos on tick tok and youtube showing unhappy 40 year old cat ladies that believed the lies they were told by Sex and the city. Most women these days would much rather be a stay at home mom with a husband who is the breadwinner. It's the natural order and always has been for a reason,.
Right…, Tik Tok and Youtube are definitley reliable sources, LOL. It's amazing how one TV show can upend the "natural world order. " I just don't understand why all of these deadbeat husbands and fathers allow their women out of the house when they clearly shouldn't. They're cluttering up the roads driving around. Trumper men need to get together and have Bryan Hughes sponsor some more well thought out legislation. Revoke their driving privileges, and right to vote. That'll keep them home. Keep'em pregnant and busy with lots of children. I don't guess you could blame men for failing to make enough money so their wives don't have to work. On the other hand, maybe men shouldn't be allowed to marry a woman or father children, until they show they can provide enough money to maintain the "natural world order in their home." A stiff prison term for failure would fix that! Where is Bryan Hughes when you really need him?


No one can legitimately answer for 'all women'.

Though I suspect many women would dearly appreciate the opportunity to stay home with their children and have a stable husband provide enough money to support them all.

Other than the first 3 years of our marriage, I have been the sole breadwinner in our relationship. However after watching all the work my wife has done caring for our extended family, it's obvious I had the easier task.

You married TS ?


The thing is, and you might ask your wife this to make sure, some women want a choice in the matter. Your suspicions shouldn't determine squat for all of humanity, and that is exactly the problem. Entitled men who think that a "I suspect" should determine gender roles for everyone.


Another one of your incoherent ramblings.

Either you are perpetually stoned, under the age of 19 or incredibly stupid.
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Waco1947
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 10:40p, 12/28/23
Redbrickbear said:
"Men have sacrificed and crippled themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect women and children. None of their pain or achievement is registered in feminist rhetoric, which portrays men as oppressive and callous exploiters."

-Camille Paglia
Erroneous and shortsighted
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TexasScientist
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 7:40a, 12/29/23
Redbrickbear said:
TexasScientist said:
Redbrickbear said:
Just as abusive domineering relationships are not healthy for the mother or the child.



True.

But Patriarchy does not equal abusive relationship.

I think you, and feminism in general, have made the mistake of assuming it does
Biblical patriarchy, which is what you're advocating, if enforced upon women is abusive in and of itself. The OT and NT both make women subservient to men, and advocate abuse of women. Marriage and raising a family should be based upon a partnership of equal footing.
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TexasScientist
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 7:57a, 12/29/23
Redbrickbear said:
"Men have sacrificed and crippled themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect women and children. None of their pain or achievement is registered in feminist rhetoric, which portrays men as oppressive and callous exploiters."

-Camille Paglia
And???? Some men have. And, some men have physically, and psychologically abused, and even abandoned their women and children or worse. There are countries, many theocratic, where patriarchal abuse is codified, and is the norm of their culture. It's not all men. The idea of patriarchy makes women subservient, and patriarchal societies are where women are abused.

You know, there also are women who have sacrificed themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect their children, and even their husbands (even deadbeat husbands). None of their pain or achievement is registered in patriarchal rhetoric which portrays women as subservient.
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4th and Inches
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In reply to TexasScientist • 8:16a, 12/29/23

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mysterybut I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Sounds pretty equal to me, especially for something written about martial partnership around 2000 years ago
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4th and Inches
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In reply to TexasScientist • 8:22a, 12/29/23
TexasScientist said:
Redbrickbear said:
"Men have sacrificed and crippled themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect women and children. None of their pain or achievement is registered in feminist rhetoric, which portrays men as oppressive and callous exploiters."

-Camille Paglia
And???? Some men have. And, some men have physically, and psychologically abused, and even abandoned their women and children or worse. There are countries, many theocratic, where patriarchal abuse is codified, and is the norm of their culture. It's not all men. The idea of patriarchy makes women subservient, and patriarchal societies are where women are abused.

You know, there also are women who have sacrificed themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect their children, and even their husbands (even deadbeat husbands). None of their pain or achievement is registered in patriarchal rhetoric which portrays women as subservient.
no woman is subservient in a true Christian household. You cant be a man who honors and cherishes their wife with whom you became one flesh under the living word if you make your wife subservient.

The wedding vow lists cherish separate from love for a reason. To cherish means to protect and care for, to adore
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to TexasScientist • 8:53a, 12/29/23
TexasScientist said:
Redbrickbear said:
"Men have sacrificed and crippled themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect women and children. None of their pain or achievement is registered in feminist rhetoric, which portrays men as oppressive and callous exploiters."

-Camille Paglia
And???? Some men have. And, some men have physically, and psychologically abused, and even abandoned their women and children or worse...



Sure,

But what do you think is the ratio is of men in history that have used their physical strength to abuse their wives and kids vs sacrificed and work endlessly to take care of them?

Patriarchal societies have survived for thousands of years…not because they brutally oppressed women and children….but because they provided protection and security and allowed the family (and thus the civilization) to flourish.




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Waco1947
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 9:09a, 12/29/23
Redbrickbear said:
TexasScientist said:
Redbrickbear said:
"Men have sacrificed and crippled themselves physically and emotionally to feed, house, and protect women and children. None of their pain or achievement is registered in feminist rhetoric, which portrays men as oppressive and callous exploiters."

-Camille Paglia
And???? Some men have. And, some men have physically, and psychologically abused, and even abandoned their women and children or worse...



Sure,

But what do you think is the ratio is of men in history that have used their physical strength to abuse their wives and kids vs sacrificed and work endlessly to take care of them?

Patriarchal societies have survived for thousands of years…not because they brutally oppressed women and children….but because they provided protection and security and allowed the family (and thus the civilization) to flourish.




TS said "Biblical patriarchy, which is what you're advocating, if enforced upon women is abusive in and of itself." Biblically, it means it was baked into the system. Women are not 2nd class citizens because in the reign of God all are equal.
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TexasScientist
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In reply to 4th and Inches • 9:25a, 12/29/23
4th and Inches said:

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mysterybut I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Sounds pretty equal to me, especially for something written about martial partnership around 2000 years ago
Except for the word "submit" among other things ("respect"??) - 'Respect' here is just another word for submission in this context. What does that mean coming from Paul, an unmarried man who has written other repressive directives toward women, when to speak and remain silent etc. etc.? One would have to question his genuineness. Men are to love their wives, and women only just have to submit to and respect their husbands?

Doesn't it really depend upon which Christian sect you belong to and how they choose to interpret this passage, among all of the others throughout the NT and OT. The OT is a testament to patriarchal misogyny, and abuse of women. Hardly equal, especially when you consider the totality of the OT/NT writings.

Christians pick and choose they how to interpret and what they want to follow in the NT/OT, and ignore or throw out the rest. Their interpretations change with societal changes. All of these books compiling the OT/NT are written by primitive people living in patriarchal misogynistic cultures - hardly a model for cultural norms today.
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