Does your church have Christian nationalism inclinations?

14,603 Views | 298 Replies | Last: 15 hrs ago by historian
sombear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Nope, the "we weren't actually saying that it's a problem" misdirect doesn't work. Trying to reinforce and give the impression that your bogeyman is influential and relevant, you know that's BS, so we're just here to remind you that you and he are full of it.

That's why there's no point in arguing about it. Your mind is already made up. It is true, by the way, that much of what the Left calls Christian nationalism is just part of our political tradition. It's also true that real Christian nationalism helped fuel the J6 riot, but you're not going to acknowledge that regardless of the evidence.
But what is your definition? And, you say "it exists." I won't argue that because just about every kind of person one could think of "exists." The question is, how prevalent do you believe it is according to your definition?

I've spent a fair amount of time googling the issue as you suggest, and I see everything from "A patriotic Christian" to "Christians who think only Christians should be in government and/or our laws should be based on the Bible."

And the reason many of us are "defensive" about it is that the characterization has become part of the left's and the media's everyday lexicon. I'm a Christian (first and foremost) and conservative (mostly) who loves the U.S. According to many, that alone means I'm a dangerous Christian Nationalist.

Political terms are slippery. I've been called everything from a radical leftist to a Christo-fascist. I'm neither, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

In my view, Christian nationalists want to privilege Christianity over other religions (for example Mike Flynn saying that one nation implies one religion). They also tend to privilege private revelation over reason and the law (for example Eric Metaxas saying that when God gives you a vision, you don't need to know anything else).

I found the following article informative:

Quote:

What I Saw At The Jericho March
MAGA at prayer event a shocking display of apocalyptic faith and politics -- and religious decadence
by Rod Dreher
Dec. 12, 2020

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-i-saw-at-the-jericho-march/

Yeah, that is nutty.

But, I've been a conservative and evangelical most of my life (I'm 55) and had never heard of the Jericho March until this post. I just tried researching it but didn't find much, and it appears to have been sparsely attended.

And I've never met anyone who shares the views described in the article. Literally not one person.

So, yes, that group is nuts, and I don't care what you call them, Christian Nationalist or other. It's a fringe group. We have fringe groups of all kinds.

But the way the label is thrown around, it clearly is meant to cover far more folks than these.
Metaxas and Flynn are well known and respected among evangelicals. Flynn even served as an advisor to President Trump. They and others played a key role in creating the mythology behind the J6 insurrection. I admire Metaxas in many ways (he's a friend of a friend). I was shocked by some of the things he said. But no one can deny that he's a prominent figure.
I'd never heard of Metaxas until your post.

Nobody knew how extreme Flynn was until after he served.
Indeed, and it's not as if evangelicals denounced Flynn when he revealed his extremism. On the contrary it's part of what propelled him to rock star status.
Is he really a rock star? I mean, a lot folks thought he got screwed by the FBI. But is he influential? And, if he is, is it b/c he's a Trump supporter who was wrongly indicted? Or is it his extremist views? I say the former, even assuming he has a significant following.

I really believe you're talking a very small % of conservative Christians. And again, call them what you want, but don't pretend that's your typical Republican Christian.
I'm not saying it is. Your typical Democrat isn't a Marxian critical theorist, either. But like anyone else they will vote for their party and find a way to justify it. Ideas have consequences. History teaches that it's a grave mistake to ignore the influence of the passionate minority. Our own revolutionary war was supported by a minority of the colonists. The basic sentiments of a person like Metaxas, for example that evidence doesn't matter when you're on a righteous mission, are shared by many if not most on this board. Whether they share a detailed theological framework doesn't necessarily matter. When ideology resonates with people's grievances, it's more than capable of evolving and spreading even in simplified form.


I mostly agree. The only reason I posted was to dispute the widely held view that Christian Nationalism is widespread phenomenon that has taken over the Evangelical church and GOP politics. It is a fringe group just like the numerous other fringe groups of all political stripes. But the media and the left treat CN much differently.

Heck, the most devoted political demographic is Atheism. Over 80% Dem.
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Nope, the "we weren't actually saying that it's a problem" misdirect doesn't work. Trying to reinforce and give the impression that your bogeyman is influential and relevant, you know that's BS, so we're just here to remind you that you and he are full of it.

That's why there's no point in arguing about it. Your mind is already made up. It is true, by the way, that much of what the Left calls Christian nationalism is just part of our political tradition. It's also true that real Christian nationalism helped fuel the J6 riot, but you're not going to acknowledge that regardless of the evidence.
But what is your definition? And, you say "it exists." I won't argue that because just about every kind of person one could think of "exists." The question is, how prevalent do you believe it is according to your definition?

I've spent a fair amount of time googling the issue as you suggest, and I see everything from "A patriotic Christian" to "Christians who think only Christians should be in government and/or our laws should be based on the Bible."

And the reason many of us are "defensive" about it is that the characterization has become part of the left's and the media's everyday lexicon. I'm a Christian (first and foremost) and conservative (mostly) who loves the U.S. According to many, that alone means I'm a dangerous Christian Nationalist.

Political terms are slippery. I've been called everything from a radical leftist to a Christo-fascist. I'm neither, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

In my view, Christian nationalists want to privilege Christianity over other religions (for example Mike Flynn saying that one nation implies one religion). They also tend to privilege private revelation over reason and the law (for example Eric Metaxas saying that when God gives you a vision, you don't need to know anything else).

I found the following article informative:

Quote:

What I Saw At The Jericho March
MAGA at prayer event a shocking display of apocalyptic faith and politics -- and religious decadence
by Rod Dreher
Dec. 12, 2020

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-i-saw-at-the-jericho-march/

2nd try

Seem to recall you declaring you're Catholic.

If so do you see CN where you regularly attend Mass ?

If so in what form ?

No, I don't see it.


Neither do I.
It's more of an evangelical or fundamentalist phenomenon. I can't say my church is completely immune to it, though. Catholicism has never been wedded to democracy. There is some sympathy with the anti-democratic feelings of the Protestant political right even if the theology is different.


Cradle Catholic……have never heard or seen any anti democratic rhetoric.

None of our Protestant friends are anti democratic.


Not sure where you have experienced such feelings.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

Doc Holliday said:

Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Nope, the "we weren't actually saying that it's a problem" misdirect doesn't work. Trying to reinforce and give the impression that your bogeyman is influential and relevant, you know that's BS, so we're just here to remind you that you and he are full of it.

That's why there's no point in arguing about it. Your mind is already made up. It is true, by the way, that much of what the Left calls Christian nationalism is just part of our political tradition. It's also true that real Christian nationalism helped fuel the J6 riot, but you're not going to acknowledge that regardless of the evidence.
But what is your definition? And, you say "it exists." I won't argue that because just about every kind of person one could think of "exists." The question is, how prevalent do you believe it is according to your definition?

I've spent a fair amount of time googling the issue as you suggest, and I see everything from "A patriotic Christian" to "Christians who think only Christians should be in government and/or our laws should be based on the Bible."

And the reason many of us are "defensive" about it is that the characterization has become part of the left's and the media's everyday lexicon. I'm a Christian (first and foremost) and conservative (mostly) who loves the U.S. According to many, that alone means I'm a dangerous Christian Nationalist.

Political terms are slippery. I've been called everything from a radical leftist to a Christo-fascist. I'm neither, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

In my view, Christian nationalists want to privilege Christianity over other religions (for example Mike Flynn saying that one nation implies one religion). They also tend to privilege private revelation over reason and the law (for example Eric Metaxas saying that when God gives you a vision, you don't need to know anything else).

I found the following article informative:

Quote:

What I Saw At The Jericho March
MAGA at prayer event a shocking display of apocalyptic faith and politics -- and religious decadence
by Rod Dreher
Dec. 12, 2020

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-i-saw-at-the-jericho-march/

You need to start thinking about who has power and money and fit that into your equation.

Realistically there's no threat of Christian nationalism because its the boogeyman of most media, there's no real money behind it and where it exists its astronomically small.

However, the radical left has billions of dollars behind it through DEI, most universities along with media and entertainment are deeply cultured for the advancement of radical leftism. Younger generations overwhelmingly support it, so when boomers die out it will be imbedded in everything.

It's more the case where being a Christian in the future might get you cancelled from society. If you're a Christian you should know this is coming.
This is similar to the woke argument that only whites can be racist because they have the money and the power. I'm well aware of the anti-Christian bigotry on the left. It doesn't change the fact that dangerous ideas also exist and have increasing influence on the right.
What dangerous ideas have major support on the right?

Its not similar to that woke argument because white people don't have a monopoly on money/power. It is a fact that the left has a monopoly on media, entertainment and academia
TinFoilHatPreacherBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The left amplifies the fringe vote and pretends that it's a threat. TDSers buy into it every time.

A Christian Nationalism threat doesn't exist. Theyve made it a bogeyman that gives the leftist media a scare tactic and faux intellectuals something to ruminate and discuss. Their complete lack of substance on the matter doesn't bother them one bit. The truth is the leftist and/or TDS Christians are actually just trying to get evangelicals to not vote their conscience. They're trying to guilt them into keeping their values at home and not in the polls. Never mind that everyone else is voting for their own values, disgusting or not. Christians should ignore the TDS crowd like Sam and vote their values period.
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

The left amplifies the fringe vote and pretends that it's a threat. TDSers buy into it every time.

A Christian Nationalism threat doesn't exist. Theyve made it a bogeyman that gives the leftist media a scare tactic and faux intellectuals something to ruminate and discuss. Their complete lack of substance on the matter doesn't bother them one bit. The truth is the leftist and/or TDS Christians are actually just trying to get evangelicals to not vote their conscience. They're trying to guilt them into keeping their values at home and not in the polls. Never mind that everyone else is voting for their own values, disgusting or not. Christians should ignore the TDS crowd like Sam and vote their values period.
This. The Right continually lets the Left define the narrative. The Left continually comes up with different bogeymen, and the Right wastes energy arguing about it other than laughing and dismissing it.

Christian Nationalism is not a thing. Stop giving it oxygen.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Is this liberal Christian nationalism?

Maybe we can call it pro-Regime Christianity?

USA Empire Christianity?


Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

Is this liberal Christian nationalism?

Maybe we can call it pro-Regime Christianity?

USA Empire Christianity?





That's Christian Fascism.
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The Old Groomer got butthurt on a flight ... he found some of the mysterious "Christian Nationalism."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/liberal-journalist-ripped-complaining-about-flight-attendant-wishing-her-blessed-night-grow-up
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Went to Mass tonight in Kilkenny Ireland.

Magnificent Church ( Saint John ) but only about 70 people attending. The Priest was from Uganda.

The Catholic Church is in a huge decline throughout Europe.

Doubt this trend will be reversed for centuries, if at all.
LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
47, would celebrating Israeli military victories be considered Christian Nationalism?

Asking for a fraynd
NYBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Waco1947 said:

Christian nationalism seeks to establish an exclusivist version of Christianity as the dominant moral and cultural order. Christian nationalism overlaps with but is distinct from theonomy, with it being more populist in character. In countries with a state church, Christian nationalists seek to preserve the status of a Christian state by holding an antidisestablishmentarian position to perpetuate the Church in national politics Wikipedia
Theonomy (from Greek theos "God" and nomos "law") is a hypothetical Christian form of government in which society is ruled by divine law. Theonomists hold that divine law, particularly the judicial laws of the Old Testament, should be observed by modern societies


This might be the single most idiotic grouping of letters I've ever had the misfortune of seeing grouped together
When I played football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something.
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
NYBear said:

Waco1947 said:

Christian nationalism seeks to establish an exclusivist version of Christianity as the dominant moral and cultural order. Christian nationalism overlaps with but is distinct from theonomy, with it being more populist in character. In countries with a state church, Christian nationalists seek to preserve the status of a Christian state by holding an antidisestablishmentarian position to perpetuate the Church in national politics Wikipedia
Theonomy (from Greek theos "God" and nomos "law") is a hypothetical Christian form of government in which society is ruled by divine law. Theonomists hold that divine law, particularly the judicial laws of the Old Testament, should be observed by modern societies


This might be the single most idiotic grouping of letters I've ever had the misfortune of seeing grouped together
Yep. The old groomer is a fool.
JXL
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

Is this liberal Christian nationalism?

Maybe we can call it pro-Regime Christianity?

USA Empire Christianity?





So where is the "separation of church and state" crowd, I wonder?
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
JXL said:

Redbrickbear said:

Is this liberal Christian nationalism?

Maybe we can call it pro-Regime Christianity?

USA Empire Christianity?





So where is the "separation of church and state" crowd, I wonder?


LOL ... fascists don't have principles.

Realitybites
How long do you want to ignore this user?
KaiBear said:

Went to Mass tonight in Kilkenny Ireland.

Magnificent Church ( Saint John ) but only about 70 people attending. The Priest was from Uganda.

The Catholic Church is in a huge decline throughout Europe.

Doubt this trend will be reversed for centuries, if at all.


We'll still be here.

"Using survey data from 2020 through 2023, the study found 44% of Orthodox churches remained open during the pandemic, compared to just 12% of all U.S. congregations. Only 31% of Orthodox priests publicly encouraged parishioners to get vaccinated compared to 62% of all clergy."

"Margitich said his church has grown from about 80 people on a Sunday morning in the pre-pandemic months of 2020 to about 180 people today. This year, St. Seraphim of Sarov Cathedral has experienced more baptisms than ever before in Margitich's 27-year career, he said, with 20 people catechized in the spring and 20 more in the process of conversion."

"Veronis' church also experienced atypical growth, from 150 regular monthly attendees in 2019 to about 220 today, he said. Most joined during the pandemic and are young adults under the age of 35."

My parish doubled in size and we consistently have about a dozen new Catachumens a year.
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Adriacus Peratuun said:

Waco1947 said:

Christian nationalism seeks to establish an exclusivist version of Christianity as the dominant moral and cultural order.[2] Christian nationalism overlaps with but is distinct from theonomy, with it being more populist in character.[3]: xxi In countries with a state church, Christian nationalists seek to preserve the status of a Christian state by holding an antidisestablishmentarian position to perpetuate the Church in national politics Wikipedia
Theonomy (from Greek theos "God" and nomos "law") is a hypothetical Christian form of government in which society is ruled by divine law.[1] Theonomists hold that divine law, particularly the judicial laws of the Old Testament, should be observed by modern societies
Does your school's sports message board have creatures weirdly obsessed with spewing divisive political blather?

Apparently so.

He's a troll desperate for attention. This ridiculous post, like almost all of his, are more silly blather. It's difficult to take any of it very seriously. Sad thing, though, is that Leftists often do believe their nutty propaganda. Many really will vote for Kamala.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Nowadays "Christian Nationalism" is a Leftist dog whistle providing them a way to attack Christian's in general. If you are an outspoken Christian and believe in Christian morality and public policy based upon Christian principles, in other words must GOP voters, you are evil.

Also, one mush always bd careful using Wikipedia, especially for hit button issues. It's often fascist propaganda disguised as fact, regularly spewing lies and half truths and any effort to correct misinformation is quickly "fact checked" and the lies restored. I think it's probably most notorious with listings on the climate cult, etc.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
historian said:

Nowadays "Christian Nationalism" is a Leftist dog whistle providing them a way to attack Christian's in general. If you are an outspoken Christian and believe in Christian morality and public policy based upon Christian principles, in other words must GOP voters, you are evil.

Also, one mush always bd careful using Wikipedia, especially for hit button issues. It's often fascist propaganda disguised as fact, regularly spewing lies and half truths and any effort to correct misinformation is quickly "fact checked" and the lies restored. I think it's probably most notorious with listings on the climate cult, etc.
Exactly. That is what that hateful tweet revealed - "Christian Nationalism" is just a dog whistle to disparage all Christians.
Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Nope, the "we weren't actually saying that it's a problem" misdirect doesn't work. Trying to reinforce and give the impression that your bogeyman is influential and relevant, you know that's BS, so we're just here to remind you that you and he are full of it.

That's why there's no point in arguing about it. Your mind is already made up. It is true, by the way, that much of what the Left calls Christian nationalism is just part of our political tradition. It's also true that real Christian nationalism helped fuel the J6 riot, but you're not going to acknowledge that regardless of the evidence.
But what is your definition? And, you say "it exists." I won't argue that because just about every kind of person one could think of "exists." The question is, how prevalent do you believe it is according to your definition?

I've spent a fair amount of time googling the issue as you suggest, and I see everything from "A patriotic Christian" to "Christians who think only Christians should be in government and/or our laws should be based on the Bible."

And the reason many of us are "defensive" about it is that the characterization has become part of the left's and the media's everyday lexicon. I'm a Christian (first and foremost) and conservative (mostly) who loves the U.S. According to many, that alone means I'm a dangerous Christian Nationalist.

Political terms are slippery. I've been called everything from a radical leftist to a Christo-fascist. I'm neither, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

In my view, Christian nationalists want to privilege Christianity over other religions (for example Mike Flynn saying that one nation implies one religion). They also tend to privilege private revelation over reason and the law (for example Eric Metaxas saying that when God gives you a vision, you don't need to know anything else).

I found the following article informative:

Quote:

What I Saw At The Jericho March
MAGA at prayer event a shocking display of apocalyptic faith and politics -- and religious decadence
by Rod Dreher
Dec. 12, 2020

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-i-saw-at-the-jericho-march/

Thank you good stuff
Waco1947 ,la
Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry "I'm not saying it is. Your typical Democrat isn't a Marxian critical theorist, either. But like anyone else they will vote for their party and find a way to justify it. Ideas have consequences. History teaches that it's a grave mistake to ignore the influence of the passionate minority. Our own revolutionary war was supported by a minority of the colonists. The basic sentiments of a person like Metaxas, for example that evidence doesn't matter when you're on a righteous mission, are shared by many if not most on this board. Whether they share a detailed theological framework doesn't necessarily matter. When ideology resonates with people's grievances, it's more than capable of evolving and spreading even in simplified form"

Thanks Sam.

A comment from me -- As a "typical Democrat" (not a caricature as the Board would have it) I vote party up and down the ballot. Since the Republican party adopted the Southern Strategy for winning elections I quit voting for any GOP candidates. I could not stomach the racism of the party. The strategy demonizes African Americans, LGBTQ people, minorities, migrants, and women seeking control of their own bodies.
The strategy has also involved directly promoting conservative views on immigration - "it's an invasion and they are killing Americans, rapists, insane, criminals, taking their jobs so be afraid be very afraid."
taxes - cut taxes but keep on spending as W and Trump
social welfare - it makes black men lazy and promotes 'welfare queens'
states' rights. "Let the states decide about abortion" never mind that abortion restrictions are still in the hands of a government. Government in the medical exam room whether Federal or state denies women freedom.


Waco1947 ,la
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Intelligent essay on the concept:

https://notthebee.com/takes/thoughts-on-the-funniest-christian-nationalism-accusation-yet

Upshot: Christian Nationalism does not actually exist.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Forest Bueller_bf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
JXL said:

Redbrickbear said:

Is this liberal Christian nationalism?

Maybe we can call it pro-Regime Christianity?

USA Empire Christianity?





So where is the "separation of church and state" crowd, I wonder?
They only want it separated if the church is actually teaching the gospel.

If they are teaching political theory and pushing political movements it's ok.
Mothra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Nope, the "we weren't actually saying that it's a problem" misdirect doesn't work. Trying to reinforce and give the impression that your bogeyman is influential and relevant, you know that's BS, so we're just here to remind you that you and he are full of it.

That's why there's no point in arguing about it. Your mind is already made up. It is true, by the way, that much of what the Left calls Christian nationalism is just part of our political tradition. It's also true that real Christian nationalism helped fuel the J6 riot, but you're not going to acknowledge that regardless of the evidence.
But what is your definition? And, you say "it exists." I won't argue that because just about every kind of person one could think of "exists." The question is, how prevalent do you believe it is according to your definition?

I've spent a fair amount of time googling the issue as you suggest, and I see everything from "A patriotic Christian" to "Christians who think only Christians should be in government and/or our laws should be based on the Bible."

And the reason many of us are "defensive" about it is that the characterization has become part of the left's and the media's everyday lexicon. I'm a Christian (first and foremost) and conservative (mostly) who loves the U.S. According to many, that alone means I'm a dangerous Christian Nationalist.

Political terms are slippery. I've been called everything from a radical leftist to a Christo-fascist. I'm neither, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

In my view, Christian nationalists want to privilege Christianity over other religions (for example Mike Flynn saying that one nation implies one religion). They also tend to privilege private revelation over reason and the law (for example Eric Metaxas saying that when God gives you a vision, you don't need to know anything else).

I found the following article informative:

Quote:

What I Saw At The Jericho March
MAGA at prayer event a shocking display of apocalyptic faith and politics -- and religious decadence
by Rod Dreher
Dec. 12, 2020

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-i-saw-at-the-jericho-march/

2nd try

Seem to recall you declaring you're Catholic.

If so do you see CN where you regularly attend Mass ?

If so in what form ?

No, I don't see it.


Neither do I.
There is some sympathy with the anti-democratic feelings of the Protestant political right even if the theology is different.
Gotta say, the fact you think that the Protestant right is "anti-Democratic" is pretty hilarious. Who knows, maybe that's a part of your anti-Christian Catholic propaganda.

I mean, you're the same poster who gave full-throated support to lockdowns across the country, preventing people from attending their places of worship or their jobs, govt.-enforced vaccine mandates, and a ministry of truth to monitor (and censor) free speech.

Think there is a big a projection here. Your positions on those subjects are about as anti-democratic and authoritarian as they come.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
historian said:

Nowadays "Christian Nationalism" is a Leftist dog whistle providing them a way to attack Christian's in general.
That's often true, and as we can see, it plays into the hand of Christian nationalists by giving them a great excuse to deny and divert.
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

historian said:

Nowadays "Christian Nationalism" is a Leftist dog whistle providing them a way to attack Christian's in general.
That's often true, and as we can see, it plays into the hand of Christian nationalists by giving them a great excuse to deny and divert.


With respect…..you say that so easily.

But as we discussed earlier, neither of us have personally experienced such 'nationalism'.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Nope, the "we weren't actually saying that it's a problem" misdirect doesn't work. Trying to reinforce and give the impression that your bogeyman is influential and relevant, you know that's BS, so we're just here to remind you that you and he are full of it.

That's why there's no point in arguing about it. Your mind is already made up. It is true, by the way, that much of what the Left calls Christian nationalism is just part of our political tradition. It's also true that real Christian nationalism helped fuel the J6 riot, but you're not going to acknowledge that regardless of the evidence.
But what is your definition? And, you say "it exists." I won't argue that because just about every kind of person one could think of "exists." The question is, how prevalent do you believe it is according to your definition?

I've spent a fair amount of time googling the issue as you suggest, and I see everything from "A patriotic Christian" to "Christians who think only Christians should be in government and/or our laws should be based on the Bible."

And the reason many of us are "defensive" about it is that the characterization has become part of the left's and the media's everyday lexicon. I'm a Christian (first and foremost) and conservative (mostly) who loves the U.S. According to many, that alone means I'm a dangerous Christian Nationalist.

Political terms are slippery. I've been called everything from a radical leftist to a Christo-fascist. I'm neither, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

In my view, Christian nationalists want to privilege Christianity over other religions (for example Mike Flynn saying that one nation implies one religion). They also tend to privilege private revelation over reason and the law (for example Eric Metaxas saying that when God gives you a vision, you don't need to know anything else).

I found the following article informative:

Quote:

What I Saw At The Jericho March
MAGA at prayer event a shocking display of apocalyptic faith and politics -- and religious decadence
by Rod Dreher
Dec. 12, 2020

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-i-saw-at-the-jericho-march/

2nd try

Seem to recall you declaring you're Catholic.

If so do you see CN where you regularly attend Mass ?

If so in what form ?

No, I don't see it.


Neither do I.
There is some sympathy with the anti-democratic feelings of the Protestant political right even if the theology is different.
Gotta say, the fact you think that the Protestant right is "anti-Democratic" is pretty hilarious. Who knows, maybe that's a part of your anti-Christian Catholic propaganda.

I mean, you're the same poster who gave full-throated support to lockdowns across the country, preventing people from attending their places of worship or their jobs, govt.-enforced vaccine mandates, and a ministry of truth to monitor (and censor) free speech.

Think there is a big a projection here. Your positions on those subjects are about as anti-democratic and authoritarian as they come.
You misrepresent my positions, as usual. I questioned the basis for concluding that the "disinformation board" was unconstitutional, and I never got an answer. My position on lockdowns was based on uncontroversial interpretation of state law.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

historian said:

Nowadays "Christian Nationalism" is a Leftist dog whistle providing them a way to attack Christian's in general.
That's often true, and as we can see, it plays into the hand of Christian nationalists by giving them a great excuse to deny and divert.


With respect…..you say that so easily.

But as we discussed earlier, neither of us have personally experienced such 'nationalism'.
I've experienced it, just not in my own church. It's more of a Protestant thing.
sombear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Some day there will be a comprehensive study on this, and it will overwhelmingly prove that the religious left when compared to the dreaded white evangelical:

- is far more politically active
- is far more politically homogenous
- expressly ties its political positions
- talks politics more from the pulpit
- demonizes its opponent to a greater extent
- believes our government should be patterned of its beliefs
- is far less likely to associate with people with opposing political/religious views

There are already pieces of this kind of this kind of study, and the results are unsurprising.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sombear said:

Some day there will be a comprehensive study on this, and it will overwhelmingly prove that the religious left when compared to the dreaded white evangelical:

- is far more politically active
- is far more politically homogenous
- expressly ties its political positions
- talks politics more from the pulpit
- demonizes its opponent to a greater extent
- believes our government should be patterned of its beliefs
- is far less likely to associate with people with opposing political/religious views

There are already pieces of this kind of this kind of study, and the results are unsurprising.
So what?
FormerFlash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I saw Christian Nationalism and Project 2025 hanging out together planning a repeat of January 6th in case Trump loses. I overheard them saying there would be twice as many buffalo hats and geriatric tourists strolling through the capital this time. Spread the word. IF YOU SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING!

Sic Everyone.
Harrison Bergeron
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Some day there will be a comprehensive study on this, and it will overwhelmingly prove that the religious left when compared to the dreaded white evangelical:

- is far more politically active
- is far more politically homogenous
- expressly ties its political positions
- talks politics more from the pulpit
- demonizes its opponent to a greater extent
- believes our government should be patterned of its beliefs
- is far less likely to associate with people with opposing political/religious views

There are already pieces of this kind of this kind of study, and the results are unsurprising.
So what?
Because Marxist-infected organizations with historical ties to churches are far more dangerous to democracy and freedom than any so-called "Christian nationalist" bogeyman created by the Marxist authoritarians.

Not to mention there seems to be zero concern for "Muslim nationalism" ... the Marxist morons did invent "Queers for Palestine."
sombear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Some day there will be a comprehensive study on this, and it will overwhelmingly prove that the religious left when compared to the dreaded white evangelical:

- is far more politically active
- is far more politically homogenous
- expressly ties its political positions
- talks politics more from the pulpit
- demonizes its opponent to a greater extent
- believes our government should be patterned of its beliefs
- is far less likely to associate with people with opposing political/religious views

There are already pieces of this kind of this kind of study, and the results are unsurprising.
So what?
Ironically, I agree with you. It's just that only white evangelicals draw the ire (real or fake) of those lamenting the toxic blend of religion and politics.
LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

historian said:

Nowadays "Christian Nationalism" is a Leftist dog whistle providing them a way to attack Christian's in general.
That's often true, and as we can see, it plays into the hand of Christian nationalists by giving them a great excuse to deny and divert.
circular much?
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

historian said:

Nowadays "Christian Nationalism" is a Leftist dog whistle providing them a way to attack Christian's in general.
That's often true, and as we can see, it plays into the hand of Christian nationalists by giving them a great excuse to deny and divert.


With respect…..you say that so easily.

But as we discussed earlier, neither of us have personally experienced such 'nationalism'.
I've experienced it, just not in my own church. It's more of a Protestant thing.


This is new.

If not in your own Church, where did you personally experience 'Christian Nationalism' and what specifically was said or done that alarms you ?
Mothra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

Sam Lowry said:

sombear said:

Sam Lowry said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Nope, the "we weren't actually saying that it's a problem" misdirect doesn't work. Trying to reinforce and give the impression that your bogeyman is influential and relevant, you know that's BS, so we're just here to remind you that you and he are full of it.

That's why there's no point in arguing about it. Your mind is already made up. It is true, by the way, that much of what the Left calls Christian nationalism is just part of our political tradition. It's also true that real Christian nationalism helped fuel the J6 riot, but you're not going to acknowledge that regardless of the evidence.
But what is your definition? And, you say "it exists." I won't argue that because just about every kind of person one could think of "exists." The question is, how prevalent do you believe it is according to your definition?

I've spent a fair amount of time googling the issue as you suggest, and I see everything from "A patriotic Christian" to "Christians who think only Christians should be in government and/or our laws should be based on the Bible."

And the reason many of us are "defensive" about it is that the characterization has become part of the left's and the media's everyday lexicon. I'm a Christian (first and foremost) and conservative (mostly) who loves the U.S. According to many, that alone means I'm a dangerous Christian Nationalist.

Political terms are slippery. I've been called everything from a radical leftist to a Christo-fascist. I'm neither, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

In my view, Christian nationalists want to privilege Christianity over other religions (for example Mike Flynn saying that one nation implies one religion). They also tend to privilege private revelation over reason and the law (for example Eric Metaxas saying that when God gives you a vision, you don't need to know anything else).

I found the following article informative:

Quote:

What I Saw At The Jericho March
MAGA at prayer event a shocking display of apocalyptic faith and politics -- and religious decadence
by Rod Dreher
Dec. 12, 2020

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-i-saw-at-the-jericho-march/

2nd try

Seem to recall you declaring you're Catholic.

If so do you see CN where you regularly attend Mass ?

If so in what form ?

No, I don't see it.


Neither do I.
There is some sympathy with the anti-democratic feelings of the Protestant political right even if the theology is different.
Gotta say, the fact you think that the Protestant right is "anti-Democratic" is pretty hilarious. Who knows, maybe that's a part of your anti-Christian Catholic propaganda.

I mean, you're the same poster who gave full-throated support to lockdowns across the country, preventing people from attending their places of worship or their jobs, govt.-enforced vaccine mandates, and a ministry of truth to monitor (and censor) free speech.

Think there is a big a projection here. Your positions on those subjects are about as anti-democratic and authoritarian as they come.
You misrepresent my positions, as usual. I questioned the basis for concluding that the "disinformation board" was unconstitutional, and I never got an answer. My position on lockdowns was based on uncontroversial interpretation of state law.
These are half-truths at best. You also expressed support for the disinformation board, citing what you believed to be rampant disinformation as the need for it. And the idea that the lockdowns you proposed weren't "uncontroversial" is disingenuous at best. You wanted to go much further than what many of the states had done, saying they didn't go far enough. And I noticed you didn't dispute you supported enforcement of the vaccine mandates.

As I suggested, you're an authoritarian who has supported anti-democratic positions. For you to be complaining about evangelicals being anti-democratic - a subject you seem to know nothing about - is the height of irony.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.