whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

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KaiBear said:

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Israel has intensified their attacks throughout the region.

Stunned Turkey and Iran have not intervened.

I have been a life long supporter of Israel; but something has gone totally out of wack.

Time to te evaluate US blank checks to the Zionist State.

---

What is out of whack is the idea that Israel is condemned to an eternity of tit-for-tat proportional warfare with its enemies, warfare in which Iranian proxies EVERY TIME target Israeli civilians and Israel EVERY TIME targets military assets in response.

Iranian proxies launched the most brutal conventional military assault on civilians in our lifetime....literally shooting people on the dance floor for the sheer glee of it, just because those people were Jews, in four-digit numbers. That gave Israel justification to use its vastly superior military assets to demolish those proxies, which they are doing. Totally logical. Israel has shown great restraint, compared to its adversaries.

In WWII we firebombed German and Japanese cities to break the will of their peoples to continue the war effort. Israel is manifestly not doing that, as other posters have noted. To the extent there is collateral damage in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, and elsewhere....that is Pavlovian disincentive for the local population to tolerate Iranian proxies in their midst. Sure, it will incentivize some young men to join the intifada. It will also incentivize some fathers and grandfathers to rat-out Iranian proxy networks to Israeli intelligence.

Israel did not start this; but Israel is going to finish this. Good for them. So quit whining and put on your big girl panties on. Israel is killing people who want to do the same to us.

---

558 Lebanese have now been killed.

Israel is going to pay a high price for these indiscriminate air attacks.

And the sooner the better.

Only then will the Zionists negotiate a peace treaty in good faith.

Hope Turkey finally intervenes.

---

Israel has already paid a high price for indiscriminate attacks on citizens. For years. Invading to degrade the ability of their enemy to continue doing so is long over-due. Civilian casualties are unavoidable. The difference is, Israel's enemy TARGETS civilians, while Israel goes to extraordinary measure to prevent harming citizens.

Turkey, if it wishes to be taken seriously as a world power, should help Israel take out Hizballah.

---

Turkey is a world power, as Europeans have continued to re learn through the years.

They need to send in some air strikes on Israeli Air Force bases.

Just enough to reel in Israeli arrogance.


Maybe then peace can be negotiated.

---

You are simply simply feeling your way thru rather than applying logic.

Israel is no threat to Turkey. Israeli interests and Turkish interests coincide in the Lebanon, particularly with respect to Hizballah. Turkey should help Israel rid the world of Shiite radical groups supported by Iran, who has been a hostile power to Turkish interests in the region for millennia. I mean, seriously. At no point in history has a regime in Anatolia had anything other than hostile relations with a regime in Parthia/Media. Iran now has de facto control over both Lebanon and Syria, former Turkish provinces contiguous to Turkey itself.

dude. THINK.
there is a reason no one is taking any meaningful action to stop what Israel is doing.
It's because Israel is doing what needs doing.

---

Amusing

One man's viewpoint is another man's logic.

Let's spend 7-9 hours typing arguments .
None of which will determine anything in the Middle East.

Oh well, our guide just showed up.


Have a great day !

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Israel has intensified their attacks throughout the region.

Stunned Turkey and Iran have not intervened.

I have been a life long supporter of Israel; but something has gone totally out of wack.

Time to te evaluate US blank checks to the Zionist State.

---

What is out of whack is the idea that Israel is condemned to an eternity of tit-for-tat proportional warfare with its enemies, warfare in which Iranian proxies EVERY TIME target Israeli civilians and Israel EVERY TIME targets military assets in response.

Iranian proxies launched the most brutal conventional military assault on civilians in our lifetime....literally shooting people on the dance floor for the sheer glee of it, just because those people were Jews, in four-digit numbers. That gave Israel justification to use its vastly superior military assets to demolish those proxies, which they are doing. Totally logical. Israel has shown great restraint, compared to its adversaries.

In WWII we firebombed German and Japanese cities to break the will of their peoples to continue the war effort. Israel is manifestly not doing that, as other posters have noted. To the extent there is collateral damage in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, and elsewhere....that is Pavlovian disincentive for the local population to tolerate Iranian proxies in their midst. Sure, it will incentivize some young men to join the intifada. It will also incentivize some fathers and grandfathers to rat-out Iranian proxy networks to Israeli intelligence.

Israel did not start this; but Israel is going to finish this. Good for them. So quit whining and put on your big girl panties on. Israel is killing people who want to do the same to us.

---

558 Lebanese have now been killed.

Israel is going to pay a high price for these indiscriminate air attacks.

And the sooner the better.

Only then will the Zionists negotiate a peace treaty in good faith.

Hope Turkey finally intervenes.

---

Israel has already paid a high price for indiscriminate attacks on citizens. For years. Invading to degrade the ability of their enemy to continue doing so is long over-due. Civilian casualties are unavoidable. The difference is, Israel's enemy TARGETS civilians, while Israel goes to extraordinary measure to prevent harming citizens.

Turkey, if it wishes to be taken seriously as a world power, should help Israel take out Hizballah.

---

Turkey is a world power, as Europeans have continued to re learn through the years.

They need to send in some air strikes on Israeli Air Force bases.

Just enough to reel in Israeli arrogance.


Maybe then peace can be negotiated.

---

That may be the dumbest advice I've ever read. Israel has the capabilities to destroy the Turkish Air Force in a matter of hours. The good thing is, Turkey knows this to be the case.

Turkish influence would best be used in attempting to reign in Hezbollah/Hamas in the same way that China occasionally has NK tap the breaks on their stupid sword rattling.

---

Israel has not fought against a legitimate country or military in decades.

You vastly over rate the tactical and strategic capabilities of the Zionists.

The US would actively have to save Israel from war against either Turkey or Iran.

And the American people would never consider the body bags arriving at Dover to be worth it.

"This all began"...

Oh please, you are such a drama queen.

I responded to a post on a public forum.

That's perfectly reasonable. Your spittle-flecked outrage on being called out? Not so much.

Oldbear83 said:

---

"This all began"...

Oh please, you are such a drama queen.

I responded to a post on a public forum.

That's perfectly reasonable. Your spittle-flecked outrage on being called out? Not so much.

---

You are such a pathetic mediocrity.

Type vicious insults into conversations you have no part in from the safety of internet anonymity.

Obviously don't have the assets or physical capabilities to do much else at this stage of your decline.

KaiBear said:

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whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Israel has intensified their attacks throughout the region.

Stunned Turkey and Iran have not intervened.

I have been a life long supporter of Israel; but something has gone totally out of wack.

Time to te evaluate US blank checks to the Zionist State.

---

What is out of whack is the idea that Israel is condemned to an eternity of tit-for-tat proportional warfare with its enemies, warfare in which Iranian proxies EVERY TIME target Israeli civilians and Israel EVERY TIME targets military assets in response.

Iranian proxies launched the most brutal conventional military assault on civilians in our lifetime....literally shooting people on the dance floor for the sheer glee of it, just because those people were Jews, in four-digit numbers. That gave Israel justification to use its vastly superior military assets to demolish those proxies, which they are doing. Totally logical. Israel has shown great restraint, compared to its adversaries.

In WWII we firebombed German and Japanese cities to break the will of their peoples to continue the war effort. Israel is manifestly not doing that, as other posters have noted. To the extent there is collateral damage in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, and elsewhere....that is Pavlovian disincentive for the local population to tolerate Iranian proxies in their midst. Sure, it will incentivize some young men to join the intifada. It will also incentivize some fathers and grandfathers to rat-out Iranian proxy networks to Israeli intelligence.

Israel did not start this; but Israel is going to finish this. Good for them. So quit whining and put on your big girl panties on. Israel is killing people who want to do the same to us.

---

558 Lebanese have now been killed.

Israel is going to pay a high price for these indiscriminate air attacks.

And the sooner the better.

Only then will the Zionists negotiate a peace treaty in good faith.

Hope Turkey finally intervenes.

---

Israel has already paid a high price for indiscriminate attacks on citizens. For years. Invading to degrade the ability of their enemy to continue doing so is long over-due. Civilian casualties are unavoidable. The difference is, Israel's enemy TARGETS civilians, while Israel goes to extraordinary measure to prevent harming citizens.

Turkey, if it wishes to be taken seriously as a world power, should help Israel take out Hizballah.

---

Turkey is a world power, as Europeans have continued to re learn through the years.

They need to send in some air strikes on Israeli Air Force bases.

Just enough to reel in Israeli arrogance.


Maybe then peace can be negotiated.

---

Turkey is not a world power. Membership in NATO artificially inflates their position but they are not even a reliable ally.

And the Israelis aren't half as arrogant as the Islamofascists in Turkey. It's a ridiculous fantasy to think the Turks will get involved in Israel's war. It would hd the worst possible thing they could do for themselves and the region. Nobody benefits from expanding the war. Nobody. That should be clear to anyone who looks at the situation seriously and intelligently.

whiterock said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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Why the obsession with 9-11? There have been hundreds of terrorist attacked since then and it's global with attacks in Europe, South America, North Africa, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, etc. 9-11 is only the largest and most dramatic and largest death toll in one day but there have been several large scale attacks since then, some with dozens of hundreds of dead. They are all relevant and imports. All the victims matter, not only those being used as human shields by the terrorists responsible for ALL these deaths.

---

We are attacked because we insist on playing the world's policeman.

It's past time to return to the policies of the founding fathers.

And for those who don't like that example ….we would be ahead practicing the philosophy of Switzerland.

---

Good grief. History is a long unbroken chain of barbarians attacking civilization. The Alans, Huns, Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Bulgars, Vandals, Lombards, etc.....did not invade the Roman empire because Rome was "playing policeman" in the Eurasian marches. They attacked Rome to seize wealth and power.

History continues to operate on the same dynamics. We are attacked because we are free, wealthy, and powerful. Our liberty threatens autocrats. Our wealth begs to be taken. Our power stands in the way of ambitions of others.

---

Add to the list the Vikings, Mongols, Muslims (medieval, modern, & most of their history), Napoleon, Hitler, the Soviets, ChiComs, the Kim's of North Korea, Saddam Hussein, and many others. In fact, the list includes the Ottoman Turks.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Why the obsession with 9-11? There have been hundreds of terrorist attacked since then and it's global with attacks in Europe, South America, North Africa, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, etc. 9-11 is only the largest and most dramatic and largest death toll in one day but there have been several large scale attacks since then, some with dozens of hundreds of dead. They are all relevant and imports. All the victims matter, not only those being used as human shields by the terrorists responsible for ALL these deaths.

---

We are attacked because we insist on playing the world's policeman.

It's past time to return to the policies of the founding fathers.

And for those who don't like that example ….we would be ahead practicing the philosophy of Switzerland.

---

Good grief. History is a long unbroken chain of barbarians attacking civilization. The Alans, Huns, Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Bulgars, Vandals, Lombards, etc.....did not invade the Roman empire because Rome was "playing policeman" in the Eurasian marches. They attacked Rome to seize wealth and power.

History continues to operate on the same dynamics. We are attacked because we are free, wealthy, and powerful. Our liberty threatens autocrats. Our wealth begs to be taken. Our power stands in the way of ambitions of others.

---

There is nothing new under the sun
v. 2.0

---

"What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9

I don't understand your obsession with Americans dying in Israel's wars. In all those wars of the modern history of Israel (see chart above) how many times was the US involved? How many Americans died in modern Israel's wars? The U.S. did not get involved militarily in any of them and no Americans has died in any of those wars because of such involvement.

It's a classic straw man argument.

whiterock said:

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Nobody likes Hixballah much.

The Lebanese broadcaster, Marcel Ghanem, opened his show *"Time Has Come"* on MTV with a powerful monologue against Hezbollah: "The ones who should be ashamed are those who placed weapons among civilians, who turned rooftops into missile launchers, and chose to meet in… pic.twitter.com/9DzRxYCj71

— Open Source Intel (@Osint613) September 26, 2024

---

He probably signed his death warrant. Israel would be thrilled if Lebanon erupted into another Civil War.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-official-confirms-strike-targeted-nasrallah-very-hard-to-imagine-him-coming-out-alive/

historian said:

---

I don't understand your obsession with Americans dying in Israel's wars. In all those wars of the modern history of Israel (see chart above) how many times was the US involved? How many Americans died in modern Israel's wars? The U.S. did not get involved militarily in any of them and no Americans has died in any of those wars because of such involvement.

It's a classic straw man argument.

---

My friend we already have approximately 30,000 servicemen in the region protecting Israel and US energy concerns.
Some have already been killed.

Simply do not want any more Americans killed for either reason.

We have plenty of energy in Alaska and Israel needs to fight there own wars with their own money.

The Israeli's probably have as many spies inside Hezbollah as Hezbollah has leaders.

whiterock said:

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Lots of conflicting reports today but Israeli press is quoting IDF sources that the IDF bombing of Hizballah HQS took out Hassan Nasrallah. Other reports indicate that this and other recent strikes has tsken out the entire leadership structure of Hizballah…three tires down. If true, it's a champagne worthy day. Prior to 9/11, Hizballah had by wide margin killed more Amcits than any other terror group.

The world is a safer place today. Thank you Israel!!

BREAKING: Israel confirms that Hasan Nasrallah was in this building at the time of the attack. pic.twitter.com/trqOcZV6Vm

— Hen Mazzig (@HenMazzig) September 27, 2024

---

Kind of wild the terrorists are still meeting in buildings above ground. When everything looks like it could blow up in your pants or hand anywhere, I guess they have no choice.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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The Israeli's probably have as many spies inside Hezbollah as Hezbollah has leaders.

---

Which leads me to believe they are numerous in D.C. too.

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't understand your obsession with Americans dying in Israel's wars. In all those wars of the modern history of Israel (see chart above) how many times was the US involved? How many Americans died in modern Israel's wars? The U.S. did not get involved militarily in any of them and no Americans has died in any of those wars because of such involvement.

It's a classic straw man argument.

---

My friend we already have approximately 30,000 servicemen in the region protecting Israel and u energy concerns.
Some have already been killed.

Simply do not want any more Americans killed for either reason.

We have plenty of energy in Alaska and Israel needs to fight there own wars with their own money.

---

No true American wants Americans dying in any foreign war. However, those serving abroad today in Israel, Europe or anywhere else are not fighting in those wars. Their role is more periphery than combative. It's not like it's another Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq. I know that's no consolation to those families who lose loved ones but context matters.

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't understand your obsession with Americans dying in Israel's wars. In all those wars of the modern history of Israel (see chart above) how many times was the US involved? How many Americans died in modern Israel's wars? The U.S. did not get involved militarily in any of them and no Americans has died in any of those wars because of such involvement.

It's a classic straw man argument.

---

My friend we already have approximately 30,000 servicemen in the region protecting Israel and u energy concerns.
Some have already been killed.

Simply do not want any more Americans killed for either reason.

We have plenty of energy in Alaska and Israel needs to fight there own wars with their own money.

---

No true American wants Americans dying in any foreign war. However, those serving abroad today in Israel, Europe or anywhere else are not fighting in those wars. Their role is more periphery than combative. It's not like it's another Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq. I know that's no consolation to those families who lose loved ones but context matters.

---

Without US financial and military support ; Israel would not be blowing the **** out of Lebanon.

US aid needs to stop and if Israel wants to continue its present course……fine.

They alone can deal with the consequences.

As I've said before repeatedly, it is in our interest (& the rest of the civilized world) for Israel to destroy Hamas & Hezbollah. They are barbaric terrorist organizations and are totally responsible for all the deaths in the current war, including their own civilians whom they use as human shields and as pawns. They want those people dead to serve their twisted, demonic agenda. Israel goes to extraordinary lengths to avoid harming civilians, including calling them on the phone to warn them.

Now you are moving the goalposts: after a false argument on American deaths you turn to another false argument about the terrorists pawns. I get the feeling that you do not understand what is actually happening or you don't care about the facts. Either way, it's a losing proposition snd a waste of time.

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't understand your obsession with Americans dying in Israel's wars. In all those wars of the modern history of Israel (see chart above) how many times was the US involved? How many Americans died in modern Israel's wars? The U.S. did not get involved militarily in any of them and no Americans has died in any of those wars because of such involvement.

It's a classic straw man argument.

---

My friend we already have approximately 30,000 servicemen in the region protecting Israel and u energy concerns.
Some have already been killed.

Simply do not want any more Americans killed for either reason.

We have plenty of energy in Alaska and Israel needs to fight there own wars with their own money.

---

No true American wants Americans dying in any foreign war. However, those serving abroad today in Israel, Europe or anywhere else are not fighting in those wars. Their role is more periphery than combative. It's not like it's another Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq. I know that's no consolation to those families who lose loved ones but context matters.

---

Without US financial and military support ; Israel would not be blowing the **** out of Lebanon.

US aid needs to stop and if Israel wants to continue its present course……fine.

They alone can deal with the consequences.

---

Do you know how much more money Israel has???

More insults is all ya got.

Spite, hate, predictable venom

But you think I am the "pathetic" one here ...

This happened in Destrehan, Louisiana on Wednesday. pic.twitter.com/Hq8z4KMmDg

— Kenny Webster (@KennethRWebster) September 27, 2024

Sure hope Kaibear has good insurance!

Oldbear83 said:

---

More insults is all ya got.

Spite, hate, predictable venom

But you think I am the "pathetic" one here ...

---

Don't like it you pathetic old fool ?

Then don't start it .

Not sure where or how you developed a fantasy that you are entitled to enter a discussion uninvited ….dish out ridiculous insults…..

then escape without a return volley.

Not going to happen.

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

More insults is all ya got.

Spite, hate, predictable venom

But you think I am the "pathetic" one here ...

---

Don't like it you pathetic old fool ?

Then don't start it .

Not sure where or how you developed a fantasy that you are entitled to enter a discussion uninvited ….dish out ridiculous insults…..

then escape without a return volley.

Not going to happen.

---

Again, it's a public forum, Kaibear. People can post if they want to, maybe you're channeling your inner North Korean but you don't get to deny anyone being able to post if they want to.

And no one, least of all you, benefits from your continued tantrum in this thread. Seriously KaiBear, it makes you look like a Walz going on and on with endless whining.

...

...

By the way, I have said before that usually you have good takes, but you're not going to win anyone's respect by going on verbally soiling yourself as you are doing, but if you insist on doing so, no one is stopping you.

But it's not a good look for you, guy. And I'm mildly amused at your level of spewage, so don't imagine I am in any way hurt by your rants.

You do you. But good luck with that.

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

More insults is all ya got.

Spite, hate, predictable venom

But you think I am the "pathetic" one here ...

---

Don't like it you pathetic old fool ?

Then don't start it .

Not sure where or how you developed a fantasy that you are entitled to enter a discussion uninvited ….dish out ridiculous insults…..

then escape without a return volley.

Not going to happen.

---

Again, it's a public forum, Kaibear. People can post if they want to, maybe you're channeling your inner North Korean but you don't get to deny anyone being able to post if they want to.

And no one, least of all you, benefits from your continued tantrum in this thread. Seriously KaiBear, it makes you look like a Walz going on and on with endless whining.

...

...

By the way, I have said before that usually you have good takes, but you're not going to win anyone's respect by going on verbally soiling yourself as you are doing, but if you insist on doing so, no one is stopping you.

But it's not a good look for you, guy. And I'm mildly amused at your level of spewage, so don't imagine I am in any way hurt by your rants.

You do you. But good luck with that.

---

You have pulled this stunt on other occasions, and I let it slide.
But I learned it only encouraged your bull**** to get worse.

So I now give it back to you in spades.

Don't like insults ?

Don't initiate them.

That your life sucks is not my responsibility. So pull your pathetic **** on someone else .

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

More insults is all ya got.

Spite, hate, predictable venom

But you think I am the "pathetic" one here ...

---

Don't like it you pathetic old fool ?

Then don't start it .

Not sure where or how you developed a fantasy that you are entitled to enter a discussion uninvited ….dish out ridiculous insults…..

then escape without a return volley.

Not going to happen.

---

Again, it's a public forum, Kaibear. People can post if they want to, maybe you're channeling your inner North Korean but you don't get to deny anyone being able to post if they want to.

And no one, least of all you, benefits from your continued tantrum in this thread. Seriously KaiBear, it makes you look like a Walz going on and on with endless whining.

...

...

By the way, I have said before that usually you have good takes, but you're not going to win anyone's respect by going on verbally soiling yourself as you are doing, but if you insist on doing so, no one is stopping you.

But it's not a good look for you, guy. And I'm mildly amused at your level of spewage, so don't imagine I am in any way hurt by your rants.

You do you. But good luck with that.

---

You have pulled this stunt on other occasions, and I let it slide.
But I learned it only encouraged your bull**** to get worse.

So I now give it back to you in spades.

Don't like insults ?

Don't initiate them.

That your life sucks is not my responsibility. So pull your pathetic **** on someone else .

---

You keep repeating that, as if it will magically be right 'this time'

< chuckles >

OK, good luck with that.

To the room:

Sorry folks for playing with Kaibear, but

A) the topic is pretty much done anyway, and

B) the more posts he makes trying to goad me, is that many fewer posts where he's not advocating for Jew deaths