You confuse heinous actions of the state for political control purposes, with heinous acts done in the name of Christianity and the Church, religions included. There is a difference. Although Christians have used the power of the state to commit heinous acts also.

TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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The average German identified as being Christian throughout the Third Reich, and Church attendance remained relatively high during the 1930s and early 1940s. Military chaplains served in the Wehrmacht, and Christian burial rites were common for German soldiers. The idea that the Nazi state had completely shed Christian identity is belied by the fact that Nazism thrived in a society that still saw itself culturally and nationally as being Christian. To claim that Nazi Germany was not Christian ignores the reality of how the Germans religious identity was intertwined with the ideology and operations of the Third Reich.

---

And you are again confusing average Germans with the Nazi party.

Average Germans were of course overwhelmingly Christian in the 1930s (Europeans all over the continent were).

But the Nazi movement and upper level leadership was a fully modernist political movement that was atheistic/agnostic with strong neo-pagan factions.

And as was shown….Hitler and the leadership planned to move against organized Christianity once the war was won.

Replacing it with modern Scientific-atheism or some kind of revived volkish/Nordic Odin-ism

But average Germans were of course not the Nazi movement….average Germans never even voted for the Nazi party by majorities.

Hitler and the Nazis never even got to 40% of the general German vote before they overthrew the political system

For most of its history the Nazi party only had 8%-13% support levels

[Adolf Hitler's highest percentage of votes in a free and open national election in Germany was approximately 37%…. specifically, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) achieved this percentage in the July 1932 general election. Hitler also received around 36.8% of the vote in the 1932 German presidential election]

It was a minority political movement….further ruled by a small elite of Nazis subordinate to the Fuhrer (supreme leader)

---

No, what I'm saying is you fail to recognize that most people living in Germany professed to being Christian, and those same people either outright supported the Nazi movement, or at minimum their complacence allowed the Nazi movement to flourish.

---

I have acknowledged that the majority of Germans were Christian

You still think the majority of German Christians supported the Nazis….but of course that is not correct

The Nazis as a party never got more than 37% of the vote…so a full 63% of Germans never even voted for them ever…and did not support them. The Nazis overthrew German democracy and created a dictatorship. (Important fact to remember)

And German Catholics were of course even more opposed to voting for the Nazi party….there was almost no support in the Catholic voting community for their movement.

(By using your logic the majority of Russian orthodox Christians were somehow supporters of the Bolsheviks or complicit….even though in truth they were being ruled over by a dictatorial non-democratic communist movement that they never voted for.)

---

Most of those who voted were professing Christians. The Nazi Party could not have survived or functioned unless it were at the very least tacitly supported by Christians. With ~ 95% of Germans professing to be Christian, the Nazi regime could not have risen to power if Christians rose up against it.

Yes. And Russian Orthodox Christians today are going along with the brutal and criminal war on Ukraine. Puten himself professes to be an Orthodox Christian, and has the support of the Orthodox Church. He has even alluded to being directed by God's will.

---

The majority of German Christians did not support the Nazis.

Many were executed for their reluctance to get into line.

---

Do you really believe the millions of men who filled the ranks of the German Army, or the women who worked in industry, or supported the war effort were not Christians? Almost all Germans were Christians, either Catholic or Protestant.

---

I've covered all that in great detail. Whatever direction you think you are going, it's not gonna change facts. Most Christians in Germany did not support the Nazis. And the Nazi Church started long before Hitler turned it upside down. It was simply a non-confessing church since just post WWI. Many of the members of the church that became the Reich Church did not support Hitler but were scared for their lives to leave.

---

That's a poor excuse. If enough Christians stood up against the Nazis, they would not have been able to take control of the country.

---

Let's examine that statement. Stand up to the Nazis and get killed. Go along with the Nazis and live to work against them and everything they stood for.

---

I thought Christianity was all about standing up against oppression and laying down your life for others. There is no greater thing you can do - martyrdom. You're exposing the fallacy of your faith my friend.

---

Dude, as I've said here many times, I am a lousy Christian. When I go to church, I still check out the ladies. I always check out a lovely gal jogging, at least twice. At this point of my life, my habits are too far ingrained into me,

As for the Germans, there would be no reason for a father of a family to lay down his life so that he might be murdered by the Brownshirts and his family would be left flailing in the wind. Jesus also said to use common sense in his own way, his teachings and actions demonstrate principles that align with the concept of sound judgment and practical wisdom. The Bible, particularly in books like Proverbs, encourages discernment and prudence, which are core components of common sense.

---

Your comments make my point by exposing and underscoring the contradictory absurdities, and failures of Christianity.

---

Declaring yourself the 'victor' still again.

Childish.

KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Assassin said:

---

TexasScientist said:

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KaiBear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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The average German identified as being Christian throughout the Third Reich, and Church attendance remained relatively high during the 1930s and early 1940s. Military chaplains served in the Wehrmacht, and Christian burial rites were common for German soldiers. The idea that the Nazi state had completely shed Christian identity is belied by the fact that Nazism thrived in a society that still saw itself culturally and nationally as being Christian. To claim that Nazi Germany was not Christian ignores the reality of how the Germans religious identity was intertwined with the ideology and operations of the Third Reich.

---

And you are again confusing average Germans with the Nazi party.

Average Germans were of course overwhelmingly Christian in the 1930s (Europeans all over the continent were).

But the Nazi movement and upper level leadership was a fully modernist political movement that was atheistic/agnostic with strong neo-pagan factions.

And as was shown….Hitler and the leadership planned to move against organized Christianity once the war was won.

Replacing it with modern Scientific-atheism or some kind of revived volkish/Nordic Odin-ism

But average Germans were of course not the Nazi movement….average Germans never even voted for the Nazi party by majorities.

Hitler and the Nazis never even got to 40% of the general German vote before they overthrew the political system

For most of its history the Nazi party only had 8%-13% support levels

[Adolf Hitler's highest percentage of votes in a free and open national election in Germany was approximately 37%…. specifically, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) achieved this percentage in the July 1932 general election. Hitler also received around 36.8% of the vote in the 1932 German presidential election]

It was a minority political movement….further ruled by a small elite of Nazis subordinate to the Fuhrer (supreme leader)

---

No, what I'm saying is you fail to recognize that most people living in Germany professed to being Christian, and those same people either outright supported the Nazi movement, or at minimum their complacence allowed the Nazi movement to flourish.

---

I have acknowledged that the majority of Germans were Christian

You still think the majority of German Christians supported the Nazis….but of course that is not correct

The Nazis as a party never got more than 37% of the vote…so a full 63% of Germans never even voted for them ever…and did not support them. The Nazis overthrew German democracy and created a dictatorship. (Important fact to remember)

And German Catholics were of course even more opposed to voting for the Nazi party….there was almost no support in the Catholic voting community for their movement.

(By using your logic the majority of Russian orthodox Christians were somehow supporters of the Bolsheviks or complicit….even though in truth they were being ruled over by a dictatorial non-democratic communist movement that they never voted for.)

---

Most of those who voted were professing Christians. The Nazi Party could not have survived or functioned unless it were at the very least tacitly supported by Christians. With ~ 95% of Germans professing to be Christian, the Nazi regime could not have risen to power if Christians rose up against it.

Yes. And Russian Orthodox Christians today are going along with the brutal and criminal war on Ukraine. Puten himself professes to be an Orthodox Christian, and has the support of the Orthodox Church. He has even alluded to being directed by God's will.

---

The majority of German Christians did not support the Nazis.

Many were executed for their reluctance to get into line.

---

Do you really believe the millions of men who filled the ranks of the German Army, or the women who worked in industry, or supported the war effort were not Christians? Almost all Germans were Christians, either Catholic or Protestant.

---

I've covered all that in great detail. Whatever direction you think you are going, it's not gonna change facts. Most Christians in Germany did not support the Nazis. And the Nazi Church started long before Hitler turned it upside down. It was simply a non-confessing church since just post WWI. Many of the members of the church that became the Reich Church did not support Hitler but were scared for their lives to leave.

---

That's a poor excuse. If enough Christians stood up against the Nazis, they would not have been able to take control of the country.

---

Let's examine that statement. Stand up to the Nazis and get killed. Go along with the Nazis and live to work against them and everything they stood for.

---

I thought Christianity was all about standing up against oppression and laying down your life for others. There is no greater thing you can do - martyrdom. You're exposing the fallacy of your faith my friend.

---

Dude, as I've said here many times, I am a lousy Christian. When I go to church, I still check out the ladies. I always check out a lovely gal jogging, at least twice. At this point of my life, my habits are too far ingrained into me,

As for the Germans, there would be no reason for a father of a family to lay down his life so that he might be murdered by the Brownshirts and his family would be left flailing in the wind. Jesus also said to use common sense in his own way, his teachings and actions demonstrate principles that align with the concept of sound judgment and practical wisdom. The Bible, particularly in books like Proverbs, encourages discernment and prudence, which are core components of common sense.

---

Your comments make my point by exposing and underscoring the contradictory absurdities, and failures of Christianity.

---

Declaring yourself the 'victor' still again.

Childish.

---

No, but I see you still resort to ad hominem attacks as a debate tactic.

TexasScientist said:

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KaiBear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Assassin said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Assassin said:

---

TexasScientist said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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---

The average German identified as being Christian throughout the Third Reich, and Church attendance remained relatively high during the 1930s and early 1940s. Military chaplains served in the Wehrmacht, and Christian burial rites were common for German soldiers. The idea that the Nazi state had completely shed Christian identity is belied by the fact that Nazism thrived in a society that still saw itself culturally and nationally as being Christian. To claim that Nazi Germany was not Christian ignores the reality of how the Germans religious identity was intertwined with the ideology and operations of the Third Reich.

---

And you are again confusing average Germans with the Nazi party.

Average Germans were of course overwhelmingly Christian in the 1930s (Europeans all over the continent were).

But the Nazi movement and upper level leadership was a fully modernist political movement that was atheistic/agnostic with strong neo-pagan factions.

And as was shown….Hitler and the leadership planned to move against organized Christianity once the war was won.

Replacing it with modern Scientific-atheism or some kind of revived volkish/Nordic Odin-ism

But average Germans were of course not the Nazi movement….average Germans never even voted for the Nazi party by majorities.

Hitler and the Nazis never even got to 40% of the general German vote before they overthrew the political system

For most of its history the Nazi party only had 8%-13% support levels

[Adolf Hitler's highest percentage of votes in a free and open national election in Germany was approximately 37%…. specifically, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) achieved this percentage in the July 1932 general election. Hitler also received around 36.8% of the vote in the 1932 German presidential election]

It was a minority political movement….further ruled by a small elite of Nazis subordinate to the Fuhrer (supreme leader)

---

No, what I'm saying is you fail to recognize that most people living in Germany professed to being Christian, and those same people either outright supported the Nazi movement, or at minimum their complacence allowed the Nazi movement to flourish.

---

I have acknowledged that the majority of Germans were Christian

You still think the majority of German Christians supported the Nazis….but of course that is not correct

The Nazis as a party never got more than 37% of the vote…so a full 63% of Germans never even voted for them ever…and did not support them. The Nazis overthrew German democracy and created a dictatorship. (Important fact to remember)

And German Catholics were of course even more opposed to voting for the Nazi party….there was almost no support in the Catholic voting community for their movement.

(By using your logic the majority of Russian orthodox Christians were somehow supporters of the Bolsheviks or complicit….even though in truth they were being ruled over by a dictatorial non-democratic communist movement that they never voted for.)

---

Most of those who voted were professing Christians. The Nazi Party could not have survived or functioned unless it were at the very least tacitly supported by Christians. With ~ 95% of Germans professing to be Christian, the Nazi regime could not have risen to power if Christians rose up against it.

Yes. And Russian Orthodox Christians today are going along with the brutal and criminal war on Ukraine. Puten himself professes to be an Orthodox Christian, and has the support of the Orthodox Church. He has even alluded to being directed by God's will.

---

The majority of German Christians did not support the Nazis.

Many were executed for their reluctance to get into line.

---

Do you really believe the millions of men who filled the ranks of the German Army, or the women who worked in industry, or supported the war effort were not Christians? Almost all Germans were Christians, either Catholic or Protestant.

---

I've covered all that in great detail. Whatever direction you think you are going, it's not gonna change facts. Most Christians in Germany did not support the Nazis. And the Nazi Church started long before Hitler turned it upside down. It was simply a non-confessing church since just post WWI. Many of the members of the church that became the Reich Church did not support Hitler but were scared for their lives to leave.

---

That's a poor excuse. If enough Christians stood up against the Nazis, they would not have been able to take control of the country.

---

Let's examine that statement. Stand up to the Nazis and get killed. Go along with the Nazis and live to work against them and everything they stood for.

---

I thought Christianity was all about standing up against oppression and laying down your life for others. There is no greater thing you can do - martyrdom. You're exposing the fallacy of your faith my friend.

---

Dude, as I've said here many times, I am a lousy Christian. When I go to church, I still check out the ladies. I always check out a lovely gal jogging, at least twice. At this point of my life, my habits are too far ingrained into me,

As for the Germans, there would be no reason for a father of a family to lay down his life so that he might be murdered by the Brownshirts and his family would be left flailing in the wind. Jesus also said to use common sense in his own way, his teachings and actions demonstrate principles that align with the concept of sound judgment and practical wisdom. The Bible, particularly in books like Proverbs, encourages discernment and prudence, which are core components of common sense.

---

Your comments make my point by exposing and underscoring the contradictory absurdities, and failures of Christianity.

---

Declaring yourself the 'victor' still again.

Childish.

---

No, but I see you still resort to ad hominem attacks as a debate tactic.

---

You forgot to declare yourself the 'victor' still again.

' Cingue' was more consistent.

KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Assassin said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Assassin said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Assassin said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

---

The average German identified as being Christian throughout the Third Reich, and Church attendance remained relatively high during the 1930s and early 1940s. Military chaplains served in the Wehrmacht, and Christian burial rites were common for German soldiers. The idea that the Nazi state had completely shed Christian identity is belied by the fact that Nazism thrived in a society that still saw itself culturally and nationally as being Christian. To claim that Nazi Germany was not Christian ignores the reality of how the Germans religious identity was intertwined with the ideology and operations of the Third Reich.

---

And you are again confusing average Germans with the Nazi party.

Average Germans were of course overwhelmingly Christian in the 1930s (Europeans all over the continent were).

But the Nazi movement and upper level leadership was a fully modernist political movement that was atheistic/agnostic with strong neo-pagan factions.

And as was shown….Hitler and the leadership planned to move against organized Christianity once the war was won.

Replacing it with modern Scientific-atheism or some kind of revived volkish/Nordic Odin-ism

But average Germans were of course not the Nazi movement….average Germans never even voted for the Nazi party by majorities.

Hitler and the Nazis never even got to 40% of the general German vote before they overthrew the political system

For most of its history the Nazi party only had 8%-13% support levels

[Adolf Hitler's highest percentage of votes in a free and open national election in Germany was approximately 37%…. specifically, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) achieved this percentage in the July 1932 general election. Hitler also received around 36.8% of the vote in the 1932 German presidential election]

It was a minority political movement….further ruled by a small elite of Nazis subordinate to the Fuhrer (supreme leader)

---

No, what I'm saying is you fail to recognize that most people living in Germany professed to being Christian, and those same people either outright supported the Nazi movement, or at minimum their complacence allowed the Nazi movement to flourish.

---

I have acknowledged that the majority of Germans were Christian

You still think the majority of German Christians supported the Nazis….but of course that is not correct

The Nazis as a party never got more than 37% of the vote…so a full 63% of Germans never even voted for them ever…and did not support them. The Nazis overthrew German democracy and created a dictatorship. (Important fact to remember)

And German Catholics were of course even more opposed to voting for the Nazi party….there was almost no support in the Catholic voting community for their movement.

(By using your logic the majority of Russian orthodox Christians were somehow supporters of the Bolsheviks or complicit….even though in truth they were being ruled over by a dictatorial non-democratic communist movement that they never voted for.)

---

Most of those who voted were professing Christians. The Nazi Party could not have survived or functioned unless it were at the very least tacitly supported by Christians. With ~ 95% of Germans professing to be Christian, the Nazi regime could not have risen to power if Christians rose up against it.

Yes. And Russian Orthodox Christians today are going along with the brutal and criminal war on Ukraine. Puten himself professes to be an Orthodox Christian, and has the support of the Orthodox Church. He has even alluded to being directed by God's will.

---

The majority of German Christians did not support the Nazis.

Many were executed for their reluctance to get into line.

---

Do you really believe the millions of men who filled the ranks of the German Army, or the women who worked in industry, or supported the war effort were not Christians? Almost all Germans were Christians, either Catholic or Protestant.

---

I've covered all that in great detail. Whatever direction you think you are going, it's not gonna change facts. Most Christians in Germany did not support the Nazis. And the Nazi Church started long before Hitler turned it upside down. It was simply a non-confessing church since just post WWI. Many of the members of the church that became the Reich Church did not support Hitler but were scared for their lives to leave.

---

That's a poor excuse. If enough Christians stood up against the Nazis, they would not have been able to take control of the country.

---

Let's examine that statement. Stand up to the Nazis and get killed. Go along with the Nazis and live to work against them and everything they stood for.

---

I thought Christianity was all about standing up against oppression and laying down your life for others. There is no greater thing you can do - martyrdom. You're exposing the fallacy of your faith my friend.

---

Dude, as I've said here many times, I am a lousy Christian. When I go to church, I still check out the ladies. I always check out a lovely gal jogging, at least twice. At this point of my life, my habits are too far ingrained into me,

As for the Germans, there would be no reason for a father of a family to lay down his life so that he might be murdered by the Brownshirts and his family would be left flailing in the wind. Jesus also said to use common sense in his own way, his teachings and actions demonstrate principles that align with the concept of sound judgment and practical wisdom. The Bible, particularly in books like Proverbs, encourages discernment and prudence, which are core components of common sense.

---

Your comments make my point by exposing and underscoring the contradictory absurdities, and failures of Christianity.

---

Declaring yourself the 'victor' still again.

Childish.

---

No, but I see you still resort to ad hominem attacks as a debate tactic.

---

You forgot to declare yourself the 'victor' still again.

' Cingue' was more consistent.

---

He's lost every debate so far. He is pretty consistent.

TexasScientist said:

---

You confuse heinous actions of the state for political control purposes, with heinous acts done in the name of Christianity and the Church, religions included. There is a difference. Although Christians have used the power of the state to commit heinous acts also.

---

All creeds...both secular and religious... have used State power for destructive ends at certain points and time.

But what you like about the Modern Secular West (USA)....is a product of Christianity and Christian people.

[In a 2004 review of the book, James Nuechterlein wrote:

Quote:

---

The distinctive features of the American Creed, in Huntington's view, grew out of a culture that included "a work ethic, the English language, British traditions of law, justice, and the limits of government power, and a legacy of European art, literature, philosophy, and music." Subvert that culture, he believes, and you subvert also the foundations of the Creed and thus eventually of American national identity.

Ultimately, Huntington insists, the sources of the Creed and of American liberal principles are not secular but religious. They derive from Christianity in general and from a dissenting Protestantism in particular- a product of the English Puritan Revolution, itself described by Huntington as "the single most important formative event of American political history." It is the distinctively Protestant emphases on the individual conscience, the work ethic, opposition to hierarchy, and the responsibility to transform society that "have shaped American attitudes toward private and public morality, economic activity, government, and public policy."

Huntington hastens to add that his is an argument "for the importance of Anglo-Protestant culture, not for the importance of Anglo-Protestant people." America has happily become a multiethnic, multiracial society in which individuals can succeed on their own merits without regard to their origins. If a commitment to Anglo-Protestant culture is sustained.

---

Islamist preacher in Dearborn, Michigan:

"Despite all their technology, Americans are so uncivilized and backward, they wipe themselves with toilet paper.

Allah sent us to civilize them because they are the lowest form of human nature. Christians are so jealous of us, their… pic.twitter.com/5nTnIlDwZN

— Dr. Maalouf ‏ (@realMaalouf) August 1, 2025

In the 8th century, the fate of Europe teetered on a knife’s edge.

A vast caliphate swept westward, unstoppable, unchallenged.

But in the heart of Gaul a man rose to stop the Muslim invasion in a final battle that saved Western Civilization. 🧵👇 pic.twitter.com/mzagizgU5a

— Legacy (@GodPlaysCards) August 1, 2025

Charles Martel and the Battle of Tours. He was grandfather of Charlemagne.

Assassin said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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The average German identified as being Christian throughout the Third Reich, and Church attendance remained relatively high during the 1930s and early 1940s. Military chaplains served in the Wehrmacht, and Christian burial rites were common for German soldiers. The idea that the Nazi state had completely shed Christian identity is belied by the fact that Nazism thrived in a society that still saw itself culturally and nationally as being Christian. To claim that Nazi Germany was not Christian ignores the reality of how the Germans religious identity was intertwined with the ideology and operations of the Third Reich.

---

And you are again confusing average Germans with the Nazi party.

Average Germans were of course overwhelmingly Christian in the 1930s (Europeans all over the continent were).

But the Nazi movement and upper level leadership was a fully modernist political movement that was atheistic/agnostic with strong neo-pagan factions.

And as was shown….Hitler and the leadership planned to move against organized Christianity once the war was won.

Replacing it with modern Scientific-atheism or some kind of revived volkish/Nordic Odin-ism

But average Germans were of course not the Nazi movement….average Germans never even voted for the Nazi party by majorities.

Hitler and the Nazis never even got to 40% of the general German vote before they overthrew the political system

For most of its history the Nazi party only had 8%-13% support levels

[Adolf Hitler's highest percentage of votes in a free and open national election in Germany was approximately 37%…. specifically, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) achieved this percentage in the July 1932 general election. Hitler also received around 36.8% of the vote in the 1932 German presidential election]

It was a minority political movement….further ruled by a small elite of Nazis subordinate to the Fuhrer (supreme leader)

---

No, what I'm saying is you fail to recognize that most people living in Germany professed to being Christian, and those same people either outright supported the Nazi movement, or at minimum their complacence allowed the Nazi movement to flourish.

---

I have acknowledged that the majority of Germans were Christian

You still think the majority of German Christians supported the Nazis….but of course that is not correct

The Nazis as a party never got more than 37% of the vote…so a full 63% of Germans never even voted for them ever…and did not support them. The Nazis overthrew German democracy and created a dictatorship. (Important fact to remember)

And German Catholics were of course even more opposed to voting for the Nazi party….there was almost no support in the Catholic voting community for their movement.

(By using your logic the majority of Russian orthodox Christians were somehow supporters of the Bolsheviks or complicit….even though in truth they were being ruled over by a dictatorial non-democratic communist movement that they never voted for.)

---

Most of those who voted were professing Christians. The Nazi Party could not have survived or functioned unless it were at the very least tacitly supported by Christians. With ~ 95% of Germans professing to be Christian, the Nazi regime could not have risen to power if Christians rose up against it.

Yes. And Russian Orthodox Christians today are going along with the brutal and criminal war on Ukraine. Puten himself professes to be an Orthodox Christian, and has the support of the Orthodox Church. He has even alluded to being directed by God's will.

---

The majority of German Christians did not support the Nazis.

Many were executed for their reluctance to get into line.

---

Do you really believe the millions of men who filled the ranks of the German Army, or the women who worked in industry, or supported the war effort were not Christians? Almost all Germans were Christians, either Catholic or Protestant.

---

I've covered all that in great detail. Whatever direction you think you are going, it's not gonna change facts. Most Christians in Germany did not support the Nazis. And the Nazi Church started long before Hitler turned it upside down. It was simply a non-confessing church since just post WWI. Many of the members of the church that became the Reich Church did not support Hitler but were scared for their lives to leave.

---

That's a poor excuse. If enough Christians stood up against the Nazis, they would not have been able to take control of the country.

---

Let's examine that statement. Stand up to the Nazis and get killed. Go along with the Nazis and live to work against them and everything they stood for.

---

I thought Christianity was all about standing up against oppression and laying down your life for others. There is no greater thing you can do - martyrdom. You're exposing the fallacy of your faith my friend.

---

Dude, as I've said here many times, I am a lousy Christian. When I go to church, I still check out the ladies. I always check out a lovely gal jogging, at least twice. At this point of my life, my habits are too far ingrained into me,

As for the Germans, there would be no reason for a father of a family to lay down his life so that he might be murdered by the Brownshirts and his family would be left flailing in the wind. Jesus also said to use common sense in his own way, his teachings and actions demonstrate principles that align with the concept of sound judgment and practical wisdom. The Bible, particularly in books like Proverbs, encourages discernment and prudence, which are core components of common sense.

---

Your comments make my point by exposing and underscoring the contradictory absurdities, and failures of Christianity.

---

Declaring yourself the 'victor' still again.

Childish.

---

No, but I see you still resort to ad hominem attacks as a debate tactic.

---

You forgot to declare yourself the 'victor' still again.

' Cingue' was more consistent.

---

He's lost every debate so far. He is pretty consistent.

---

^^ Seems to me y'all declare victory when you have no credible answer to the nonsense of religion.

TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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The average German identified as being Christian throughout the Third Reich, and Church attendance remained relatively high during the 1930s and early 1940s. Military chaplains served in the Wehrmacht, and Christian burial rites were common for German soldiers. The idea that the Nazi state had completely shed Christian identity is belied by the fact that Nazism thrived in a society that still saw itself culturally and nationally as being Christian. To claim that Nazi Germany was not Christian ignores the reality of how the Germans religious identity was intertwined with the ideology and operations of the Third Reich.

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And you are again confusing average Germans with the Nazi party.

Average Germans were of course overwhelmingly Christian in the 1930s (Europeans all over the continent were).

But the Nazi movement and upper level leadership was a fully modernist political movement that was atheistic/agnostic with strong neo-pagan factions.

And as was shown….Hitler and the leadership planned to move against organized Christianity once the war was won.

Replacing it with modern Scientific-atheism or some kind of revived volkish/Nordic Odin-ism

But average Germans were of course not the Nazi movement….average Germans never even voted for the Nazi party by majorities.

Hitler and the Nazis never even got to 40% of the general German vote before they overthrew the political system

For most of its history the Nazi party only had 8%-13% support levels

[Adolf Hitler's highest percentage of votes in a free and open national election in Germany was approximately 37%…. specifically, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) achieved this percentage in the July 1932 general election. Hitler also received around 36.8% of the vote in the 1932 German presidential election]

It was a minority political movement….further ruled by a small elite of Nazis subordinate to the Fuhrer (supreme leader)

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No, what I'm saying is you fail to recognize that most people living in Germany professed to being Christian, and those same people either outright supported the Nazi movement, or at minimum their complacence allowed the Nazi movement to flourish.

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I have acknowledged that the majority of Germans were Christian

You still think the majority of German Christians supported the Nazis….but of course that is not correct

The Nazis as a party never got more than 37% of the vote…so a full 63% of Germans never even voted for them ever…and did not support them. The Nazis overthrew German democracy and created a dictatorship. (Important fact to remember)

And German Catholics were of course even more opposed to voting for the Nazi party….there was almost no support in the Catholic voting community for their movement.

(By using your logic the majority of Russian orthodox Christians were somehow supporters of the Bolsheviks or complicit….even though in truth they were being ruled over by a dictatorial non-democratic communist movement that they never voted for.)

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Most of those who voted were professing Christians. The Nazi Party could not have survived or functioned unless it were at the very least tacitly supported by Christians. With ~ 95% of Germans professing to be Christian, the Nazi regime could not have risen to power if Christians rose up against it.

Yes. And Russian Orthodox Christians today are going along with the brutal and criminal war on Ukraine. Puten himself professes to be an Orthodox Christian, and has the support of the Orthodox Church. He has even alluded to being directed by God's will.

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The majority of German Christians did not support the Nazis.

Many were executed for their reluctance to get into line.

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Do you really believe the millions of men who filled the ranks of the German Army, or the women who worked in industry, or supported the war effort were not Christians? Almost all Germans were Christians, either Catholic or Protestant.

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I've covered all that in great detail. Whatever direction you think you are going, it's not gonna change facts. Most Christians in Germany did not support the Nazis. And the Nazi Church started long before Hitler turned it upside down. It was simply a non-confessing church since just post WWI. Many of the members of the church that became the Reich Church did not support Hitler but were scared for their lives to leave.

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That's a poor excuse. If enough Christians stood up against the Nazis, they would not have been able to take control of the country.

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Let's examine that statement. Stand up to the Nazis and get killed. Go along with the Nazis and live to work against them and everything they stood for.

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I thought Christianity was all about standing up against oppression and laying down your life for others. There is no greater thing you can do - martyrdom. You're exposing the fallacy of your faith my friend.

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Dude, as I've said here many times, I am a lousy Christian. When I go to church, I still check out the ladies. I always check out a lovely gal jogging, at least twice. At this point of my life, my habits are too far ingrained into me,

As for the Germans, there would be no reason for a father of a family to lay down his life so that he might be murdered by the Brownshirts and his family would be left flailing in the wind. Jesus also said to use common sense in his own way, his teachings and actions demonstrate principles that align with the concept of sound judgment and practical wisdom. The Bible, particularly in books like Proverbs, encourages discernment and prudence, which are core components of common sense.

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Your comments make my point by exposing and underscoring the contradictory absurdities, and failures of Christianity.

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Declaring yourself the 'victor' still again.

Childish.

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No, but I see you still resort to ad hominem attacks as a debate tactic.

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You forgot to declare yourself the 'victor' still again.

' Cingue' was more consistent.

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He's lost every debate so far. He is pretty consistent.

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^^ Seems to me y'all declare victory when you have no credible answer to the nonsense of religion.

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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You confuse heinous actions of the state for political control purposes, with heinous acts done in the name of Christianity and the Church, religions included. There is a difference. Although Christians have used the power of the state to commit heinous acts also.

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All creeds...both secular and religious... have used State power for destructive ends at certain points and time.

But what you like about the Modern Secular West (USA)....is a product of Christianity and Christian people.

[In a 2004 review of the book, James Nuechterlein wrote:

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The distinctive features of the American Creed, in Huntington's view, grew out of a culture that included "a work ethic, the English language, British traditions of law, justice, and the limits of government power, and a legacy of European art, literature, philosophy, and music." Subvert that culture, he believes, and you subvert also the foundations of the Creed and thus eventually of American national identity.

Ultimately, Huntington insists, the sources of the Creed and of American liberal principles are not secular but religious. They derive from Christianity in general and from a dissenting Protestantism in particular- a product of the English Puritan Revolution, itself described by Huntington as "the single most important formative event of American political history." It is the distinctively Protestant emphases on the individual conscience, the work ethic, opposition to hierarchy, and the responsibility to transform society that "have shaped American attitudes toward private and public morality, economic activity, government, and public policy."

Huntington hastens to add that his is an argument "for the importance of Anglo-Protestant culture, not for the importance of Anglo-Protestant people." America has happily become a multiethnic, multiracial society in which individuals can succeed on their own merits without regard to their origins. If a commitment to Anglo-Protestant culture is sustained.

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All creeds...both secular and religious... have used State power for destructive ends at certain points and time.

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I agree in general with this statement.

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But what you like about the Modern Secular West (USA)....is a product of Christianity and Christian people.

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You really can't give Christianity full credit for your argument. You have to remember that Christianity both secular and religious roots that tract back to Hellenistic, Canaanite, Babylonian, and earlier eastern philosophy and culture. Values like liberty, justice, and equality are not the exclusive domain of Christianity or any other single creed or religion. Rather, western values are a result of ongoing dialogue, adaptation, and contributions from many different groups and individuals.

Humanism with its emphasis on human agency, empathy, reason, and ethical conduct, offers a framework for social progress independent of religious dogma, is in the best long term interests of humanity.

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

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That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative. If you want to go down that rabbit hole, history is littered with religious and Christian atrocities.

Christianity's roots are in Jesus Christ and ancient Judaism. The only source one needs to understand it is the Bible and faith.

The Big Bang - And then there was this big mass, this singularity, a theoretical point where conditions become infinite and break down. And all the volume of existing planets, gasses and physical laws were related to it - something out of nothing.

In the Bible, particularly in the Book of Genesis, the universe is described as being created by God through His spoken word in six literal days - something out of nothing.

Don't they both sound like you must have faith in something?

TexasScientist said:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

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That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

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That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence%85

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world%85.and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all%85.religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

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That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence%85

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world%85.and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all%85.religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

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Note: see post below, this one was from my cell phone and wouldn't go through - same for previous above.

Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

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That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

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Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

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While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

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Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

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Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better than divisive and tribalistic religious ideogies that leads to demonization and violence against those who are different.

TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

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Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

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Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

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French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

We can add the 60 million babies aborted in America over the past 52 years. Roe v Wade is not the result of Christian think but materialism and humanism. America's Holocaust is worse than Germany's.

historian said:

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We can add the 60 million babies aborted in America over the past 52 years. Roe v Wade is not the result of Christian think but materialism and humanism. America's Holocaust is worse than Germany's.

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Good point.

Of course Secularists/Atheists won't even take ownership of the most extreme aspects of their ideology going off the rails and sending millions to die in camps…in the name of stamping out religion and building a "rationalist" society.

So they will never take responsibility for 60 million abortion deaths in the USA.

And a huge number world wide

Abortion killed as many people as World War II in one year

73,000,000 babies aborted in 2024

When will this end? pic.twitter.com/dzpFpdqj28

— Patrick Neve (@catholicpat) January 3, 2025

Redbrickbear said:

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historian said:

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We can add the 60 million babies aborted in America over the past 52 years. Roe v Wade is not the result of Christian think but materialism and humanism. America's Holocaust is worse than Germany's.

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Good point.

Of course Secularists/Atheists won't even take ownership of the most extreme aspects of their ideology going off the rails and sending millions to die in camps…in the name of stamping out religion and building a "rationalist" society.

Of course they will never take responsibility for 60 million abortion deaths in the USA.

And a huge number world wide

Abortion killed as many people as World War II in one year

73,000,000 babies aborted in 2024

When will this end? pic.twitter.com/dzpFpdqj28

— Patrick Neve (@catholicpat) January 3, 2025

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There are some really sick people out there, including the abortionists, Planned Parenthood, and the pastors that tell women that it's, your body, your choice and then claim to support No Abortion

Planned Parenthood operates bunches of mini-Auschwitz's all over the country. Their primary purpose is mass murder, despite the propaganda. They also make lots of money selling body parts. In top of that, they support the barbaric trans agenda.

Why has this evil organization NOT been outlawed for its various terrorist activities??? Hamas & Hezbollah have much smaller total body counts.

Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

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You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

historian said:

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Planned Parenthood operates bunches of mini-Auschwitz's all over the country. Their primary purpose is mass murder, despite the propaganda. They also make lots of money selling body parts. In top of that, they support the barbaric trans agenda.

Why has this evil organization NOT been outlawed for its various terrorist activities??? Hamas & Hezbollah have much smaller total body counts.

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True dat. 60,000,000 and counting

Assassin said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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historian said:

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We can add the 60 million babies aborted in America over the past 52 years. Roe v Wade is not the result of Christian think but materialism and humanism. America's Holocaust is worse than Germany's.

---

Good point.

Of course Secularists/Atheists won't even take ownership of the most extreme aspects of their ideology going off the rails and sending millions to die in camps…in the name of stamping out religion and building a "rationalist" society.

Of course they will never take responsibility for 60 million abortion deaths in the USA.

And a huge number world wide

Abortion killed as many people as World War II in one year

73,000,000 babies aborted in 2024

When will this end? pic.twitter.com/dzpFpdqj28

— Patrick Neve (@catholicpat) January 3, 2025

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There are some really sick people out there, including the abortionists, Planned Parenthood, and the pastors that tell women that it's, your body, your choice and then claim to support No Abortion

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Ok, before you go off on me, I'm not for unabated abortions. However, shouldn't there be limted exceptions? Doesn't human decency and empathy require exceptions for rape, incest, health of the mother, or conclusively a nonviable or dead fetus? For instance, one of my wife's pregnancies had to be ended at 23 weeks, because the baby had died. It was a devastating experience for both of us. Her life was at risk if she did not abort her pregnancy. I had a private conversation with Bryan Hughes about this scenario before his bill was passed. He assured me that under that scenario she would be able to lawfully abort. However, that is not how this has played out. My wife's OB has indicated he could no longer offer her that option, if her condition were presented today. And, that has proven to be the reality now in Texas. The risk of prosecution is too great. It's a hard issue to address, but there has to be some measure for exceptions.

TexasScientist said:

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Assassin said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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historian said:

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We can add the 60 million babies aborted in America over the past 52 years. Roe v Wade is not the result of Christian think but materialism and humanism. America's Holocaust is worse than Germany's.

---

Good point.

Of course Secularists/Atheists won't even take ownership of the most extreme aspects of their ideology going off the rails and sending millions to die in camps…in the name of stamping out religion and building a "rationalist" society.

Of course they will never take responsibility for 60 million abortion deaths in the USA.

And a huge number world wide

Abortion killed as many people as World War II in one year

73,000,000 babies aborted in 2024

When will this end? pic.twitter.com/dzpFpdqj28

— Patrick Neve (@catholicpat) January 3, 2025

---

There are some really sick people out there, including the abortionists, Planned Parenthood, and the pastors that tell women that it's, your body, your choice and then claim to support No Abortion

---

Ok, before you go off on me, I'm not for unabated abortions. However, shouldn't there be limted exceptions? Doesn't human decency and empathy require exceptions for rape, incest, health of the mother, or conclusively a nonviable or dead fetus? For instance, one of my wife's pregnancies had to be ended at 23 weeks, because the baby had died. It was a devastating experience for both of us. Her life was at risk if she did not abort her pregnancy. I had a private conversation with Bryan Hughes about this scenario before his bill was passed. He assured me that under that scenario she would be able to lawfully abort. However, that is not how this has played out. My wife's OB has indicated he could no longer offer her that option, if her condition were presented today. And, that has proven to be the reality now in Texas. The risk of prosecution is too great. It's a hard issue to address, but there has to be some measure for exceptions.

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Absolutely agree, to save the life of the mother. Unfortunately, I think whatever they come up with will be abused by many. I lost my second son as he died in the womb. I was out at sea and couldnt be with Lisa when it happened. He wasnt terminated early but might have been if what I was told is correct, to save her life

TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

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That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

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Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

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These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Quote:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

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Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

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And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

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All movements, secular or religious have the same flaw, especially when you elevate a leader to cult status.

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

A humanisitic approach to life doesn't require blindly following the dogma of any leader, profit, or god.

TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

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That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

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While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

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Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

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Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

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French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

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You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

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These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

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Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

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And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

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How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

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No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

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Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

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And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

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A humanisitic approach to life doesn't require blindly following the dogma of any leader, profit, or god.

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I remember New Atheists in the 2000s and early '10s saying that with religion fading from cultural importance we would all become more open-minded, rational, and more tolerant people and literally the exact opposite as happened. https://t.co/zZfw9JnbSV

— Liberalism Appreciator (@kwakara91) August 11, 2025

Fascinating article about the existential struggle western civilization seems to be losing, mainly because few people are even aware it is happening:

The Civilizational Struggle That No One Talks About

https://stream.org/the-civilizational-struggle-that-no-one-talks-about