Redbrickbear said:

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2001? Dang. France has been indoctrinated for a while

Did you know 125,000 Christians have been murdered and 19,000 churches destroyed by Muslims in Nigeria in the last 15 years?

Weird how that never gets any attention.

Wonder why

🤔

— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) August 19, 2025

And in Somal... err, Minnesota

ST. PAUL, MN: An Islamic Center in Minnesota recently wrote a “community support letter” on behalf of 41-year-old Qalinle Ibrahim Dirie, a Somali immigrant who abducted and raped a 12-year-old girl.

The letter, written to ask the judge to consider a lighter sentence for Dirie,… pic.twitter.com/9nBqLwcRK3

— FRONTLINES (@FrontlinesTPUSA) August 2, 2025

Is Sam Islamic?

ScottS said:

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Is Sam Islamic?

---

That's a Sam question. I think it's more TDS than anything, but you might ask him about that

Liberal woman says she’s embracing Islam and is done Christianity because it’s based off of fear and Islam is based off of love

pic.twitter.com/hoHZYnMlPw

— Defiant L’s (@DefiantLs) August 21, 2025

Several centuries before the Crusades...

Muslims conducted wars of expansion against Christian territories and people for approximately 400-470 years before the first Crusades began in the late 11th century. Following the Muslim conquests of the Levant in the 7th century, including the loss of Jerusalem in 638 CE, Christian lands faced ongoing conflict and persecution for centuries, which eventually led to the Christian world organizing the Crusades.

Context of Muslim Expansion

• Early 7th Century:
  .
  After the death of the Prophet Muhammad, Muslim forces launched a vast expansion, conquering territories that had been under Christian rule, such as the Levant, North Africa, and parts of the Iberian Peninsula.
  
• Fall of Jerusalem (638 CE):
  .
  Jerusalem, the birthplace of Christianity, fell to invading Muslim forces after a year-long siege. This marked the beginning of more than four centuries of Muslim rule over the city and the surrounding region.
  
• Continuous Conflict:
  .
  Throughout the period between the 7th century and the late 11th century, the Christian world was engaged in a struggle for survival, marked by the constant pressure of Muslim expansion.
  

Impact on Christians

• Loss of Territory: Much of the formerly Christian world was brought under Muslim control.
  
• Harsh Rules for Christians: Muslim authorities in these territories often enforced strict rules and imposed harsh conditions on the Christian populations.
  
• Halted Pilgrimages: There were difficulties and oppression faced by Christian pilgrims traveling to the Holy Land, a key destination for Western Europeans.
  

The First Crusade as a Response

• The First Crusade, launched in 1095, was a direct response to this long period of Muslim expansion and the perceived threats to Christian lands and interests.
• The objective of the Crusade was to stop the ongoing expansion of Muslim states and to recapture the Holy Land for Christianity.

She is clearly ignorant of both. If this is real.

historian said:

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She is clearly ignorant of both. If this is real.

---

If you frame her face and get rid of the rainbow eyebrows and hair, she's actually very pretty

She is Sanija Ameti, Muslim politician from Switzerland and a member of The Green Party.

She recently uploaded a picture on Instagram in which she’s seen sh*oting with g*n at the picture of Jesus and Mary.

She came to Switzerland as a refugee in 1995, when she was just 3… pic.twitter.com/aWmggMK87Y

— Fatima Khan (@Fatima_Khatun01) August 21, 2025

Austin PBS has "Islam's Great Stories of Love" for anyone interested playing right now

A mother asks a couple if they can move their car from the disabled parking spot because her daughter is disabled.

Watch their reaction. pic.twitter.com/yoIh2iFi3m

— Defiant L’s (@DefiantLs) August 23, 2025

Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Quote:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

A humanisitic approach to life doesn't require blindly following the dogma of any leader, profit, or god.

---

I remember New Atheists in the 2000s and early '10s saying that with religion fading from cultural importance we would all become more open-minded, rational, and more tolerant people and literally the exact opposite as happened. https://t.co/zZfw9JnbSV

— Liberalism Appreciator (@kwakara91) August 11, 2025

---

Unfrortunately, religion hasn't declined enough to impede bad behavior.

There are 581 mosques in New York.

So why do they still pray on the streets? pic.twitter.com/UAVDAbB82K

— Dr. Maalouf ‏ (@realMaalouf) August 31, 2025

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

lol because Hitler, Stalin, and Mao killed hundreds of millions of people were religious zealots?

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

lol because Hitler, Stalin, and Mao killed hundreds of millions of people were religious zealots?

---

Dictatorial statist zealots.

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

---

You forget Nazi Germany was statist country overwhelmingly populated with Christians. You confuse secularism with humanism. The U. S. is a secular country. Secular countries are capable of atrocities.

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

---

You forget Nazi Germany was statist country overwhelmingly populated with Christians. You confuse secularism with humanism. The U. S. is a secular country. Secular countries are capable of atrocities.

---

And you blame Religion in general for atrocities committed by some religious groups...or statist groups claiming a religious mantel.

Humanism (that you are advocating for) is of course a form of secularism.

You are not dealing with the fact that secularism has a lot of blood on its hands. It could not even go a short time in Human history without committing mass atrocities.

You just want to fence off your particular favored form of secularism from any criticism

PS

We have gone over before that the Nazis were a secular movement and atheist at its core. The most religious groups in Germany did not even vote for the Nazis. (see Catholic opposition to Nazism) And the Nazi movement never even won a majority of votes by the German people.

The Nazis embrace of Darwinian evolution and racism was an example of it leaving behind traditional religion and building up a new secular evolutionary racism doctrine.

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

---

You forget Nazi Germany was statist country overwhelmingly populated with Christians. You confuse secularism with humanism. The U. S. is a secular country. Secular countries are capable of atrocities.

---

And you blame Religion in general for atrocities committed by some religious groups...or statist groups claiming a religious mantel.

Humanism (that you are advocating for) is of course a form of secularism.

You are not dealing with the fact that secularism has a lot of blood on its hands. It could not even go a short time in Human history without committing mass atrocities.

You just want to fence off your particular favored form of secularism from any criticism

PS

We have gone over before that the Nazis were a secular movement and atheist at its core. They most religious groups in Germany did not even vote for the Nazis. (see Catholic opposition to Nazism) And the Nazi movement never even won a majority of votes by the Germany people.

Nazi embrace of Darwinian evolution and racism was a example of it leaving behind traditional religion and building up a new secular evolutionary racism doctrine.

---

That just doesn't fit his agenda and he will never accept it.

Kick him out of the country https://t.co/1Pqt0bi10W

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) September 1, 2025

historian said:

---

If that's his opinion of the US then Elon is correct. He gas no business being here.

---

Hopefully, the woke community worldwide sees Islam for what it is. It is one scary cult

Former Muslim, Turned Christian, Lured to His Death by Former Friend

Ihlan Omar's Wealth Between 6 and 30 Million

EP141: Muslims Call For Political Assassinations At Michigan Palestinian Conferencehttps://t.co/jmhNY7WK2W

— Laura Loomer (@LauraLoomer) September 3, 2025

Islam is demonic. I honestly believe the false prophet in the Book of Revelation (end times prophecies) will likely be an Imam and the Antichrist's cult will start out as Islam.

No way all of that was gained legitimately.

Wouldn't it be ironic if these people were the first to be assassinated?

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

---

You forget Nazi Germany was statist country overwhelmingly populated with Christians. You confuse secularism with humanism. The U. S. is a secular country. Secular countries are capable of atrocities.

---

And you blame Religion in general for atrocities committed by some religious groups...or statist groups claiming a religious mantel.

Humanism (that you are advocating for) is of course a form of secularism.

You are not dealing with the fact that secularism has a lot of blood on its hands. It could not even go a short time in Human history without committing mass atrocities.

You just want to fence off your particular favored form of secularism from any criticism

PS

We have gone over before that the Nazis were a secular movement and atheist at its core. The most religious groups in Germany did not even vote for the Nazis. (see Catholic opposition to Nazism) And the Nazi movement never even won a majority of votes by the German people.

The Nazis embrace of Darwinian evolution and racism was an example of it leaving behind traditional religion and building up a new secular evolutionary racism doctrine.

---

My point has been that an overwhelming perctentage (95%) in Germany was Christian, and German's stood by and let it happen, and the vote was 43.7%, which means a majority of that vote was made up of Christians, and it required a coalition that was backed by Christians.

You realize that the US, at least for now is secular. This country was founded in part to be free of state sponsored religion, a democratic republic as opposed to a theocracy.

You

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

---

You forget Nazi Germany was statist country overwhelmingly populated with Christians. You confuse secularism with humanism. The U. S. is a secular country. Secular countries are capable of atrocities.

---

And you blame Religion in general for atrocities committed by some religious groups...or statist groups claiming a religious mantel.

Humanism (that you are advocating for) is of course a form of secularism.

You are not dealing with the fact that secularism has a lot of blood on its hands. It could not even go a short time in Human history without committing mass atrocities.

You just want to fence off your particular favored form of secularism from any criticism

PS

We have gone over before that the Nazis were a secular movement and atheist at its core. The most religious groups in Germany did not even vote for the Nazis. (see Catholic opposition to Nazism) And the Nazi movement never even won a majority of votes by the German people.

The Nazis embrace of Darwinian evolution and racism was an example of it leaving behind traditional religion and building up a new secular evolutionary racism doctrine.

---

My point has been that an overwhelming perctentage (95%) in Germany was Christian, and German's stood by and let it happen, and the vote was 43.7%, which means a majority of that vote was made up of Christians, and it required a coalition that was backed by Christians.

You realize that the US, at least for now is secular. This country was founded in part to be free of state sponsored religion, a democratic republic as opposed to a theocracy.

You

---

And we keep repeating over and over is that you are wrong. Germans did not "stand by and let it happen". No matter how you keep rephrasing it, it's incorrect

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

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Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

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And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

---

You forget Nazi Germany was statist country overwhelmingly populated with Christians. You confuse secularism with humanism. The U. S. is a secular country. Secular countries are capable of atrocities.

---

And you blame Religion in general for atrocities committed by some religious groups...or statist groups claiming a religious mantel.

Humanism (that you are advocating for) is of course a form of secularism.

You are not dealing with the fact that secularism has a lot of blood on its hands. It could not even go a short time in Human history without committing mass atrocities.

You just want to fence off your particular favored form of secularism from any criticism

PS

We have gone over before that the Nazis were a secular movement and atheist at its core. The most religious groups in Germany did not even vote for the Nazis. (see Catholic opposition to Nazism) And the Nazi movement never even won a majority of votes by the German people.

The Nazis embrace of Darwinian evolution and racism was an example of it leaving behind traditional religion and building up a new secular evolutionary racism doctrine.

---

My point has been that an overwhelming perctentage (95%) in Germany was Christian, and German's stood by and let it happen, and the vote was 43.7%, which means a majority of that vote was made up of Christians, and it required a coalition that was backed by Christians.

---

So then Chinese Buddhists are reasonable for the Communists ruling China?

Orthodox Christians are responsible for the Bolsheviks?

In all 3 places (Germany, China, Russia) a radical minority party overthrew democracy and installed a vicious dictatorship with only one party being legal.

I think it's crossly unfair to lay that blame at the feat of Christians or Buddhists

Especially when these radically secularist/atheist parties in question immediately moved to suppress religion in various ways.

Assassin said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Quote:

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And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

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That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

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Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

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While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

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And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

---

You forget Nazi Germany was statist country overwhelmingly populated with Christians. You confuse secularism with humanism. The U. S. is a secular country. Secular countries are capable of atrocities.

---

And you blame Religion in general for atrocities committed by some religious groups...or statist groups claiming a religious mantel.

Humanism (that you are advocating for) is of course a form of secularism.

You are not dealing with the fact that secularism has a lot of blood on its hands. It could not even go a short time in Human history without committing mass atrocities.

You just want to fence off your particular favored form of secularism from any criticism

PS

We have gone over before that the Nazis were a secular movement and atheist at its core. The most religious groups in Germany did not even vote for the Nazis. (see Catholic opposition to Nazism) And the Nazi movement never even won a majority of votes by the German people.

The Nazis embrace of Darwinian evolution and racism was an example of it leaving behind traditional religion and building up a new secular evolutionary racism doctrine.

---

My point has been that an overwhelming perctentage (95%) in Germany was Christian, and German's stood by and let it happen, and the vote was 43.7%, which means a majority of that vote was made up of Christians, and it required a coalition that was backed by Christians.

You realize that the US, at least for now is secular. This country was founded in part to be free of state sponsored religion, a democratic republic as opposed to a theocracy.

You

---

And we keep repeating over and over is that you are wrong. Germans did not "stand by and let it happen". No matter how you keep rephrasing it, it's incorrect

---

He has a narrative and does not want to give it up.

And has probably not read about the huge numbers of Germans who opposed the Nazis (many who were sent to concentration camps for their stand against them)

He has also not lived under a vicious one party dictatorship and underestimates how hard it is to overthrow them….even the most corrupt and poor of dictatorships (Cuba, North Korea).

I certainly would not blame Roman Catholics in Cuba for the communists there oppressing everyone and driving the county into poverty for 70 years

Redbrickbear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Quote:

---

And you don't have an answer for how secular anti-religious ideology ends in its own nonsense and mass violence

"Men can become women"

"We must killed hundreds of millions so we can create economic utopia by implementing socialism-communism"

---

That's a red herring. You're trying to assert a false claim that non religious views result in socialism or communism because you think it suits your narrative..

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

While of course refusing to deal with the fact that the most mass murdering ideology in human history was a product of the modern secular non-religious world….and it's still killing & oppressing millions of people (billions if we count communist-atheist China)

You have also not explained how your preferred moral system will not degrade into murder & oppression in the future.

After all….religion and morals are made up according to you and not from a source outside the human materialist experience.

---

Quote:

---

And you have spent your time on here engaging in a false claim that religious belief results in violence…

---

Islam, Irish Catholics/Protestants, Inquisition ....

A humanistic approach (recognizing the value of all human beings individually and collectively) is far better

---

French Revolution, Nazism, Communism….

100+ million corpses in the 20th century alone

It's obvious that your humanistic materialism can not go even a decade without mass murder and dropping it's pretense of supposed love of humans as individuals with worth.

---

You're confusing humanism with state authoritarian regime manefestos. They're completely unrelated. Those acts were carried out as state political objectives. From a practical standpoint, in authoritarian controlled states they more or less worship their leaders and controlling parties, follow their manifestos, even to the extent of hanging iconic pictures of leaders on their walls. Humanism is not an arm of the state, and would not support atrocities.

---

These State authoritarian regimes claimed to be working in the name of rational secularism & humanism.

Again you have no explanation for how to prevent your preferred ideology from becoming even more blood thirsty than any religious movement ever was.

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

Your reddit style atheism leads to Marxism....or forms of ideology like it


[Marxist thought viewed religion as an ideological tool used by the ruling class to maintain control, referring to it as the "opium of the people". Communism advocated for a society free from the influence of religious dogma and institutions.

Marxism embraced a materialistic worldview, grounded in scientific and empirical understanding, rather than reliance on supernatural or religious explanations. This is evident in the push for "scientific atheism" in some communist states.

• Communist ideology, in theory, prioritized the well-being and happiness of humankind, focusing on the improvement of human conditions in this life.
• Emphasis on Human Agency: Humanistic aspects of communism, at least in their theoretical form, suggested that humans are capable of shaping their own lives and building a better society through their actions and reason, rather than relying on divine intervention.
• Equality and Social Justice: Communism aimed to eliminate class systems and achieve social justice, creating a society where everyone shared the benefits of labor equally. This was framed as striving for a more humane society. ]

---

Those regimes contradicted humanist ideals, and were characterized by authoritarianism, suppression of dissent, human rights violations, and completely antithetical to the principles of humanism.

Quote:

---

And the fact that these secular movements often revere their leaders is another flaw that you don't have an answer for.

How do you intend to stop secular movements that ended up blindly following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

How do you stop religous movements that end up blinldy following their leadership and party functionaries?

---

No one can. Islam is a example of this…always looking for a Caliph to follow blindly

But it's you who has made the argument religion in general is somehow more likely to go off the rails and be had for humans.

Yet your "humanist" secular ideology could not even go a few decades before it went straight into mass murder and bloodshed on a historic level.

100+ million corpses lay at your door step and you dare speak to us of the humanity of your secularism?

---

Secular humanism is not what led to the atrocities you assert. Humanism stands in opposition to such ideologies. Religious zeal in fielty to state or church is responsible for most of the world's oppression.

---

"Real Secularism has never been tried"

You wont accept the extremists on your side as being from your side.

So then why should peaceful Buddhists accept being lumped in with radical Wahabi Islamists?

Or why should Pentecostal Christians accept being blamed for things a medieval Pope did 1,000 years ago?

In your world everything done in the name of a religion is the fault of all religious people.

But nothing that secularists do (Nazis, Communists, French revolutionaries) is ever the fault of secularism and atheism.

Amazing double standard

---

You forget Nazi Germany was statist country overwhelmingly populated with Christians. You confuse secularism with humanism. The U. S. is a secular country. Secular countries are capable of atrocities.

---

And you blame Religion in general for atrocities committed by some religious groups...or statist groups claiming a religious mantel.

Humanism (that you are advocating for) is of course a form of secularism.

You are not dealing with the fact that secularism has a lot of blood on its hands. It could not even go a short time in Human history without committing mass atrocities.

You just want to fence off your particular favored form of secularism from any criticism

PS

We have gone over before that the Nazis were a secular movement and atheist at its core. The most religious groups in Germany did not even vote for the Nazis. (see Catholic opposition to Nazism) And the Nazi movement never even won a majority of votes by the German people.

The Nazis embrace of Darwinian evolution and racism was an example of it leaving behind traditional religion and building up a new secular evolutionary racism doctrine.

---

My point has been that an overwhelming perctentage (95%) in Germany was Christian, and German's stood by and let it happen, and the vote was 43.7%, which means a majority of that vote was made up of Christians, and it required a coalition that was backed by Christians.

You realize that the US, at least for now is secular. This country was founded in part to be free of state sponsored religion, a democratic republic as opposed to a theocracy.

You

---

And we keep repeating over and over is that you are wrong. Germans did not "stand by and let it happen". No matter how you keep rephrasing it, it's incorrect

---

He has a narrative and does not want to give it up.

And has probably not read about the huge numbers of Germans who opposed the Nazis (many who were sent to concentration camps for their stand against them)

He has also not lived under a vicious one party dictatorship and underestimates how hard it is to overthrow them….even the most corrupt and poor of dictatorships (Cuba, North Korea).

I certainly would not blame Roman Catholics in Cuba for the communists there oppressing everyone and driving the county into poverty for 70 years

---

When I wrote the book on Bonhoeffer, it really opened my eyes to what really went on in Germany in the 30s and 40s. Many were ready to die to take down the Nazis. And many did