Trump's first 100 days

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KaiBear
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boognish_bear said:




Good grief……why ?
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Assassin
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boognish_bear said:

Damn homie



He doesnt just get that money, he has to hit some pretty high marks to get different pieces of it
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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boognish_bear said:



Agree with this 100 percent. Trump's tariffs have been a drag on not only our economy, but the world economy.
Call it a tax, the people are outraged! Call it a tariff, the people get out their checkbooks and wave their American flags!!!
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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whiterock
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Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

We are a very impatient people. The foundation of the economy is much better than it was last year. Unfortunately, we haven't started seeing the wall framing going up yet.

Most of our older generations worked their way up the ladder to gain whatever success they had as their goal. Post WWII generations - all of them - were blessed with a lot more opportunities than people before that war. A younger generation that sees a time of contraction gets nervous that they won't have those same opportunities. The vast majority of them are not starving, but they are having a harder time getting started than their parents.
Gen X faced this coming out of the rampant inflation of the late 70's and the booming cost of housing. This is not new, except to the ones who haven't experienced it - the younger generation of the time.

We still live in a place with a lot more opportunities than just about any other. We just had a misguided couple of administrations weakening the economic foundations of the country. The last one in particular. It will take more than 8 months to get the economy turned.

What about the "foundation of the economy" is stronger? Any perceived foundational improvements are built upon paper. Tariffs might be taken away by SCOTUS or Congress at any point.

Until the investment happens and manufacturing is actually brought back, any perceived improvement is a simple function of a new tax levied upon those that were already struggling.

As Ford proved, you can build billion dollar factories and still make more money not using them, than using them. For jobs to have been created by Japanese investments, they have to actually he created. Until then it is a big gamble.


American workers can not compete with slave wages in the 3rd world.

Or unfair protectionist practices by our geo-strategic adversaries (China) and even our allies....who protect their markets and workers....while exploiting ours

So you either give up and accept that manufacturing jobs will be expelled to other countries (including military rivals) or you do something like tariffs to even the playing field for American companies and workers.

For 30 plus years we have done nothing.....Trump is using Tariffs

Do you have another idea?


PS.....Even the Atlantic magazine has now realized if you can't build ships (or build other things) then you are going to lose a war against a large country that can. And you will also lose the ability to protect yourself and your allies

[China's shipbuilding industry is significantly larger and more dominant globally than that of the United States, which has a minimal share of the commercial market. China's capacity is estimated to be over 200 times that of the U.S. and builds thousands of commercial vessels annually compared to the U.S.'s small output]

[The USA built only two U.S. Navy ships and five commercial merchant ships in 2024.... The US built approximately 500 merchant ships alone in just 1942 and by the end of the war American shipyards had produced 5,788 warships and 66,000 landing craft. Along with thousands of merchant ships to carry goods to allied nations]


I understand the dilemma. It would be great if we could simply talk to every other nation and convince them to band together to make China play fair. But impossible.

All I'm saying is that we have a new tax upon Americans called tariffs, and very little benefit so far. The tariff is the foundation you can build manufacturing up on, but it can be taken away by Congress at any time. Or the Supreme Court, in the next few days.

what about the tax on Americans called "low wages"?
nein51
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What do you mean by low wages?
ATL Bear
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Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

We are a very impatient people. The foundation of the economy is much better than it was last year. Unfortunately, we haven't started seeing the wall framing going up yet.

Most of our older generations worked their way up the ladder to gain whatever success they had as their goal. Post WWII generations - all of them - were blessed with a lot more opportunities than people before that war. A younger generation that sees a time of contraction gets nervous that they won't have those same opportunities. The vast majority of them are not starving, but they are having a harder time getting started than their parents.
Gen X faced this coming out of the rampant inflation of the late 70's and the booming cost of housing. This is not new, except to the ones who haven't experienced it - the younger generation of the time.

We still live in a place with a lot more opportunities than just about any other. We just had a misguided couple of administrations weakening the economic foundations of the country. The last one in particular. It will take more than 8 months to get the economy turned.

What about the "foundation of the economy" is stronger? Any perceived foundational improvements are built upon paper. Tariffs might be taken away by SCOTUS or Congress at any point.

Until the investment happens and manufacturing is actually brought back, any perceived improvement is a simple function of a new tax levied upon those that were already struggling.

As Ford proved, you can build billion dollar factories and still make more money not using them, than using them. For jobs to have been created by Japanese investments, they have to actually he created. Until then it is a big gamble.


American workers can not compete with slave wages in the 3rd world.

Or unfair protectionist practices by our geo-strategic adversaries (China) and even our allies....who protect their markets and workers....while exploiting ours

So you either give up and accept that manufacturing jobs will be expelled to other countries (including military rivals) or you do something like tariffs to even the playing field for American companies and workers.

For 30 plus years we have done nothing.....Trump is using Tariffs

Do you have another idea?


PS.....Even the Atlantic magazine has now realized if you can't build ships (or build other things) then you are going to lose a war against a large country that can. And you will also lose the ability to protect yourself and your allies

[China's shipbuilding industry is significantly larger and more dominant globally than that of the United States, which has a minimal share of the commercial market. China's capacity is estimated to be over 200 times that of the U.S. and builds thousands of commercial vessels annually compared to the U.S.'s small output]

[The USA built only two U.S. Navy ships and five commercial merchant ships in 2024.... The US built approximately 500 merchant ships alone in just 1942 and by the end of the war American shipyards had produced 5,788 warships and 66,000 landing craft. Along with thousands of merchant ships to carry goods to allied nations]


The American worker really can't compete against the zero wages of robotics and Ai. I'm for creating more domestic production. But let's stop selling the fantasy of jobs around it to try and tax the marketplace.

And if ship building is ever going to happen, we need some huge regulatory adjustments, and a workforce that actually can and wants to participate in it.
whiterock
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KaiBear said:

boognish_bear said:




Good grief……why ?

Firstly, it's important to define what the word "base" means in this particular situation.
-We are not building an airbase
-We are not leasing a base for exclusive use.
-We are not leasing a base for a large permanent force realignment.
-We are have negotiated landing rights and use of facilities at a Syrian Air Force base
So we're not nation-building or strategically realigning our force deployments ort taking any escalatory action....

In no particular order and not trying to make cost/benefit claims, here are some of the things that basing rights in Syria could do:
1) to stabilize Syria (benefits 3 US allies + if you stabilize Syria, Syrian refugees can go home)
2) to influence/support the Syrian regime (regional stability)
3) to make it easier/cheaper to bomb Hizballah (which has killed thousands of American citizens)
4) to make it easier/chaper to bomb ISIS (and a laundry list of other jihadi groups)
5) to make it easier/cheaper to bomb anyone genociding the Kurds, Yazidis, Druze, Christians
6) to keep the Iranians out
7) to keep the Russians out
8) to keep the Turks out
(could go on a while)

The isolationist alternative to just stand back and do nothing while a whole array of states (some hostile, some not) and political movements (some hostile, some not) and terror groups (all hostile) fight it out is....well it's just goofy. Why on earth among all options would we risk letting China finance Iran back into status quo ante risking us having to repeat the whole experience of daily rocket salvos into Israeli towns (with American citizens in them) by terrorist groups with safehavens in failed states (Lebanon, Syria) causing massive refugee flows (destabilizing numerous allies), interdicted commerce flows (affecting us and allies), regional instability (conflict/wars all over the region central to world energy flows), sprinkled with terror group abduction/murder of US citizens all along the way. And it's not like nonsense in the Middle East hasn't come home to roost for us in the past.....

Less we think "world energy and trade flows" don't matter, 14% of our economy is trade related. Deficit or Surplus, trade is trade. As long as your economy depends on trade, you need a navy to protect your supply chains - the ones headed in are just as important as the ones headed out. The isolationist argument always presumes that engagement in that game causes most of our problems - policy errors of today creating the policy problems of tomorrow. Lots of truth in that. But there's also lots of truth that failure to engage is also a policy choice which also causes problems. Just a different set of problems. Whether we play the great game of geo-politics or not, everyone else WILL play the great game of geopolitics. Better to engage to forestall the worst problems and deal with the side-effects on down the road.
whiterock
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nein51 said:

What do you mean by low wages?

Those baristas at Starbucks would make a lot more money building ships than artisinal offerings of caffeine.
ATL Bear
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whiterock said:

nein51 said:

What do you mean by low wages?

Those baristas at Starbucks would make a lot more money building ships than artisinal offerings of caffeine.
If only it were that easy.
whiterock
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ATL Bear said:

whiterock said:

nein51 said:

What do you mean by low wages?

Those baristas at Starbucks would make a lot more money building ships than artisinal offerings of caffeine.

If only it were that easy.

You are correct.
It is not that easy.
But it is that simple.

We have decades of supremely harmful, downright suicidal trade policy damage to overcome. It will not happen quickly. It won't happen at all if we don't recognize our mistakes and take immediate remedial action. Fortunately, we have an administration who's working the problem well and with alacrity.
Assassin
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Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
ATL Bear
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whiterock said:

ATL Bear said:

whiterock said:

nein51 said:

What do you mean by low wages?

Those baristas at Starbucks would make a lot more money building ships than artisinal offerings of caffeine.

If only it were that easy.

You are correct.
It is not that easy.
But it is that simple.

We have decades of supremely harmful, downright suicidal trade policy damage to overcome. It will not happen quickly. It won't happen at all if we don't recognize our mistakes and take immediate remedial action. Fortunately, we have an administration who's working the problem well and with alacrity.
They're doing very little to solve the fundamental issues, especially the long term ones, and slapped on a jingoistic bandaid of higher costs for Americans and American businesses while creating global economic volatility.
BearFan33
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foxnews.com/politics/doj-accuses-federal-judge-making-mockery-separation-powers-snap-appeal#&_intcmp=fnhpbt4

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj-accuses-federal-judge-making-mockery-separation-powers-snap-appeal

Federal judge orders executive branch to pay all snap benefits,,,like now! Uses all sorts of emotional arguments for his ruling.

Executive branch appeals

key point for me....

"This is a crisis, to be sure, but it is a crisis occasioned by congressional failure, and that can only be solved by congressional action," they added.

While it sucks for the true needy people that rely on snap, the burden of fixing a congress problem shouldn't be dumped on the executive.

Our congress continues to fail in so many ways.

If the order sticks it ought to open up the executive to find novel ways to solve the funding gap. I'm guessing the left wont like the fix and will sue to stop the fix.
boognish_bear
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Assassin
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Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
Redbrickbear
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KaiBear said:

boognish_bear said:




Good grief……why ?


Off the top of my head?

Keep an eye on the Sunni Islamists around Mohammad al-Jolani who run most of the country now.

Keep and eye on any Shi'ite or Alawites there in league with Iran.

Keep Iran from coming in and reestablishing itself.....keep an eye on Russia presence on the coast where for now at least they still have a Naval base at Tartus.

Keep an eye on the Kurds who we are in a sort of alliance with.

So there are reasons......but I agree I think its a mistake.

Neo-Cons and Liberal interventionists always have reasons X, Y, Z to put American troops in a 3rd world dump......and they don't often work out and usually end up with American troops being a target for all kinds of bad actors.
canoso
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boognish_bear said:



Government-worshipers bashing this potential development incoming in 5…..4…..3……2…..1……..
Redbrickbear
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ATL Bear said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

We are a very impatient people. The foundation of the economy is much better than it was last year. Unfortunately, we haven't started seeing the wall framing going up yet.

Most of our older generations worked their way up the ladder to gain whatever success they had as their goal. Post WWII generations - all of them - were blessed with a lot more opportunities than people before that war. A younger generation that sees a time of contraction gets nervous that they won't have those same opportunities. The vast majority of them are not starving, but they are having a harder time getting started than their parents.
Gen X faced this coming out of the rampant inflation of the late 70's and the booming cost of housing. This is not new, except to the ones who haven't experienced it - the younger generation of the time.

We still live in a place with a lot more opportunities than just about any other. We just had a misguided couple of administrations weakening the economic foundations of the country. The last one in particular. It will take more than 8 months to get the economy turned.

What about the "foundation of the economy" is stronger? Any perceived foundational improvements are built upon paper. Tariffs might be taken away by SCOTUS or Congress at any point.

Until the investment happens and manufacturing is actually brought back, any perceived improvement is a simple function of a new tax levied upon those that were already struggling.

As Ford proved, you can build billion dollar factories and still make more money not using them, than using them. For jobs to have been created by Japanese investments, they have to actually he created. Until then it is a big gamble.


American workers can not compete with slave wages in the 3rd world.

Or unfair protectionist practices by our geo-strategic adversaries (China) and even our allies....who protect their markets and workers....while exploiting ours

So you either give up and accept that manufacturing jobs will be expelled to other countries (including military rivals) or you do something like tariffs to even the playing field for American companies and workers.

For 30 plus years we have done nothing.....Trump is using Tariffs

Do you have another idea?


PS.....Even the Atlantic magazine has now realized if you can't build ships (or build other things) then you are going to lose a war against a large country that can. And you will also lose the ability to protect yourself and your allies

[China's shipbuilding industry is significantly larger and more dominant globally than that of the United States, which has a minimal share of the commercial market. China's capacity is estimated to be over 200 times that of the U.S. and builds thousands of commercial vessels annually compared to the U.S.'s small output]

[The USA built only two U.S. Navy ships and five commercial merchant ships in 2024.... The US built approximately 500 merchant ships alone in just 1942 and by the end of the war American shipyards had produced 5,788 warships and 66,000 landing craft. Along with thousands of merchant ships to carry goods to allied nations]



The American worker really can't compete against the zero wages of robotics and Ai. I'm for creating more domestic production. But let's stop selling the fantasy of jobs around it to try and tax the marketplace.

And if ship building is ever going to happen, we need some huge regulatory adjustments, and a workforce that actually can and wants to participate in it.

I agree we need lots f regulatory changes to make production and manufacturing workable here again.

But I push back on the idea that American workers wont do a job....they will.....if the wages and pay is worth it.

Porteroso
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EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

We are a very impatient people. The foundation of the economy is much better than it was last year. Unfortunately, we haven't started seeing the wall framing going up yet.

Most of our older generations worked their way up the ladder to gain whatever success they had as their goal. Post WWII generations - all of them - were blessed with a lot more opportunities than people before that war. A younger generation that sees a time of contraction gets nervous that they won't have those same opportunities. The vast majority of them are not starving, but they are having a harder time getting started than their parents.
Gen X faced this coming out of the rampant inflation of the late 70's and the booming cost of housing. This is not new, except to the ones who haven't experienced it - the younger generation of the time.

We still live in a place with a lot more opportunities than just about any other. We just had a misguided couple of administrations weakening the economic foundations of the country. The last one in particular. It will take more than 8 months to get the economy turned.

What about the "foundation of the economy" is stronger? Any perceived foundational improvements are built upon paper. Tariffs might be taken away by SCOTUS or Congress at any point.

Until the investment happens and manufacturing is actually brought back, any perceived improvement is a simple function of a new tax levied upon those that were already struggling.

As Ford proved, you can build billion dollar factories and still make more money not using them, than using them. For jobs to have been created by Japanese investments, they have to actually he created. Until then it is a big gamble.


American workers can not compete with slave wages in the 3rd world.

Or unfair protectionist practices by our geo-strategic adversaries (China) and even our allies....who protect their markets and workers....while exploiting ours

So you either give up and accept that manufacturing jobs will be expelled to other countries (including military rivals) or you do something like tariffs to even the playing field for American companies and workers.

For 30 plus years we have done nothing.....Trump is using Tariffs

Do you have another idea?


PS.....Even the Atlantic magazine has now realized if you can't build ships (or build other things) then you are going to lose a war against a large country that can. And you will also lose the ability to protect yourself and your allies

[China's shipbuilding industry is significantly larger and more dominant globally than that of the United States, which has a minimal share of the commercial market. China's capacity is estimated to be over 200 times that of the U.S. and builds thousands of commercial vessels annually compared to the U.S.'s small output]

[The USA built only two U.S. Navy ships and five commercial merchant ships in 2024.... The US built approximately 500 merchant ships alone in just 1942 and by the end of the war American shipyards had produced 5,788 warships and 66,000 landing craft. Along with thousands of merchant ships to carry goods to allied nations]


I understand the dilemma. It would be great if we could simply talk to every other nation and convince them to band together to make China play fair. But impossible.

All I'm saying is that we have a new tax upon Americans called tariffs, and very little benefit so far. The tariff is the foundation you can build manufacturing up on, but it can be taken away by Congress at any time. Or the Supreme Court, in the next few days.


What you're saying is you don't like the taste of the medicine to cure the illness.

Constant expansion of executive power is an illness of its own. Used to be every conservative would agree.

Had Trump gotten Congress to participate in these negotiations, and had them set the tariff rate, I would be much less against it.

Just do what the Constitution says, and there is much less argument against you. Trump is trying to take maximum power for himself through every loophole he knows of, and I do not agree with that no matter who is President.
Porteroso
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boognish_bear said:



Both parties upping the ante on politicizing the DOJ. Trump clearly trying to do it even more than Biden did, and guess what the Dems will do once they get back into power?
EatMoreSalmon
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Porteroso said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

We are a very impatient people. The foundation of the economy is much better than it was last year. Unfortunately, we haven't started seeing the wall framing going up yet.

Most of our older generations worked their way up the ladder to gain whatever success they had as their goal. Post WWII generations - all of them - were blessed with a lot more opportunities than people before that war. A younger generation that sees a time of contraction gets nervous that they won't have those same opportunities. The vast majority of them are not starving, but they are having a harder time getting started than their parents.
Gen X faced this coming out of the rampant inflation of the late 70's and the booming cost of housing. This is not new, except to the ones who haven't experienced it - the younger generation of the time.

We still live in a place with a lot more opportunities than just about any other. We just had a misguided couple of administrations weakening the economic foundations of the country. The last one in particular. It will take more than 8 months to get the economy turned.

What about the "foundation of the economy" is stronger? Any perceived foundational improvements are built upon paper. Tariffs might be taken away by SCOTUS or Congress at any point.

Until the investment happens and manufacturing is actually brought back, any perceived improvement is a simple function of a new tax levied upon those that were already struggling.

As Ford proved, you can build billion dollar factories and still make more money not using them, than using them. For jobs to have been created by Japanese investments, they have to actually he created. Until then it is a big gamble.


American workers can not compete with slave wages in the 3rd world.

Or unfair protectionist practices by our geo-strategic adversaries (China) and even our allies....who protect their markets and workers....while exploiting ours

So you either give up and accept that manufacturing jobs will be expelled to other countries (including military rivals) or you do something like tariffs to even the playing field for American companies and workers.

For 30 plus years we have done nothing.....Trump is using Tariffs

Do you have another idea?


PS.....Even the Atlantic magazine has now realized if you can't build ships (or build other things) then you are going to lose a war against a large country that can. And you will also lose the ability to protect yourself and your allies

[China's shipbuilding industry is significantly larger and more dominant globally than that of the United States, which has a minimal share of the commercial market. China's capacity is estimated to be over 200 times that of the U.S. and builds thousands of commercial vessels annually compared to the U.S.'s small output]

[The USA built only two U.S. Navy ships and five commercial merchant ships in 2024.... The US built approximately 500 merchant ships alone in just 1942 and by the end of the war American shipyards had produced 5,788 warships and 66,000 landing craft. Along with thousands of merchant ships to carry goods to allied nations]


I understand the dilemma. It would be great if we could simply talk to every other nation and convince them to band together to make China play fair. But impossible.

All I'm saying is that we have a new tax upon Americans called tariffs, and very little benefit so far. The tariff is the foundation you can build manufacturing up on, but it can be taken away by Congress at any time. Or the Supreme Court, in the next few days.


What you're saying is you don't like the taste of the medicine to cure the illness.

Constant expansion of executive power is an illness of its own. Used to be every conservative would agree.

Had Trump gotten Congress to participate in these negotiations, and had them set the tariff rate, I would be much less against it.

Just do what the Constitution says, and there is much less argument against you. Trump is trying to take maximum power for himself through every loophole he knows of, and I do not agree with that no matter who is President.

Trump is taking the precedent of the executives of the last several decades, if not since TR. Congress needs to assert its power. It can't because it's the parties that run legislation more than the Congress. Just look at the present shut down. Too many "servants of the people" are afraid of getting primaried and lose reputation in the next election. Many just want to remain in a position of power. Personal principles are lost.
Until Congress starts taking responsibility for its own powers, the executive will be far too powerful. Even now it is an act of Congress handing over power to the executive that is before the Supreme Court.

In the mean time, each president will "use their pen" to change things.
EatMoreSalmon
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Porteroso said:

boognish_bear said:



Both parties upping the ante on politicizing the DOJ. Trump clearly trying to do it even more than Biden did, and guess what the Dems will do once they get back into power?

Clearly more than Biden? Source, please.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Assassin
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Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
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