Trump's first 100 days

795,436 Views | 14531 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by BigGameBaylorBear
ATL Bear
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Porteroso said:

boognish_bear said:



Every time I mention this I get some dumb response like "you're just jealous that you're not that rich."

It would be nice if we could just admit that this is not the direction we want to go. Shrinking the middle class, watching the generationally impoverished stay generationally impoverished, all the while a Bill Gates has the means to eradicate entire diseases on an entire continent....

Wealth is power, and much like we fought a war to make sure political elites dont decide everything for us, we are going to have to realize that we also dont want a few super rich deciding everything for us.

A system that rewards Bezos with billions for his successful company, while not providing for his employees' basic needs, and somehow not even generating corporate tax most years.... is not a good system.
The most powerful voting block in the United States are voters 65+ years of age. Not only is it the block most balanced in party lines, its voting participation level means those 1-3% candidate swings define election outcomes. Oh yeah, it's a voting block mostly sustained by a giant bankrupting entitlement scheme that has unified support regardless of party association.

The Jeff Bezos comment is what's a real head scratcher. Not only is general compensation well above traditional warehouse standards, you seem to forget about AWS and the high end tech and engineering jobs it creates. Not to mention that Amazon does more for small and medium size businesses than the SBA. The indirect employment from their Amazon sales channels and professional services via AWS, etc. is bigger than their internal employment.

So I won't call you jealous, just uninformed of the market place realities.
ATL Bear
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boognish_bear said:


Ironically, the materiality of the asset they're loaning against is a direct result of capital building wealth. Monetary inflation and not capital growth is the enemy to everyday costs.
Sam Lowry
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boognish_bear said:

Oof



The deplorables got suckered.
FLBear5630
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Oldbear83 said:

boognish_bear said:

Osodecentx said:

Porteroso said:

boognish_bear said:



Every time I mention this I get some dumb response like "you're just jealous that you're not that rich."

It would be nice if we could just admit that this is not the direction we want to go. Shrinking the middle class, watching the generationally impoverished stay generationally impoverished, all the while a Bill Gates has the means to eradicate entire diseases on an entire continent....

Wealth is power, and much like we fought a war to make sure political elites dont decide everything for us, we are going to have to realize that we also dont want a few super rich deciding everything for us.

A system that rewards Bezos with billions for his successful company, while not providing for his employees' basic needs, and somehow not even generating corporate tax most years.... is not a good system.


It is a problem, a bigger problem are the solutions. What are your suggestions?


That is the problem. This trend is not sustainable long term for the greater population...but how can you fix it without putting guardrails on capitalism?

Without out a fix....how far into the future do you go before the scales tip so far you have an uprising of those left out.

I'm not smart enough to figure that out...but it only seems to be accelerating.

And part of this is the way numbers are used.

You may have noticed the graphic compared estimated wealth to world GDP. That's probably because there is no reliable way to track actual world wealth, but that also reminds me all of this is estimates.

Just like those people who think 'net worth' is the same as what someone has in liquid funds.

Wealth is a lot more complex than money, especially when they own companies which value changes according to conditions.

Wealth envy is really useless, when you think about it. But very useful for driving political anger.


I agree with you.
nein51
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Porteroso said:

Osodecentx said:

Porteroso said:

boognish_bear said:



Every time I mention this I get some dumb response like "you're just jealous that you're not that rich."

It would be nice if we could just admit that this is not the direction we want to go. Shrinking the middle class, watching the generationally impoverished stay generationally impoverished, all the while a Bill Gates has the means to eradicate entire diseases on an entire continent....

Wealth is power, and much like we fought a war to make sure political elites dont decide everything for us, we are going to have to realize that we also dont want a few super rich deciding everything for us.

A system that rewards Bezos with billions for his successful company, while not providing for his employees' basic needs, and somehow not even generating corporate tax most years.... is not a good system.


It is a problem, a bigger problem are the solutions. What are your suggestions?

Tie the max payments of CEOs in some way to the income of their employees. Say you have a huge year. The CEO should get a bonus, sure, but give everyone else nothing? Of course it is a massive slippery slope. Once you let voters weigh in on it, they will want the CEOs to be paid much less than I would think is fair. The tyranny of the majority.

Another way is some form of accountability, where say a CEO is normally taking home 25x the average employee, but suddenly id slated to get 250x the average employee, triggers some sort of external review where they have to justify it.

I am also in favor of more tax brackets. Bringing home $3m is not the same as bringing home $3bn.

My last idea is to copy what other countries do that works. Like Germany. Tax automation so that when jobs are lost to automation, the government pays to retain factory workers for new fields. Same with AI.

You need to split your argument into multiple segments because arguing about millionaires and billionaires is not the same thing. When you talk about billionaires you're talking about around 3,000 on the planet and only around 30% of those are from the U.S. so you're talking about, roughly, 1,000 people.

Average CEO pay at the S&P500s is around 18mm per year. Outside of that the number drops to around 850k.

Very few (as in almost none) CEOs become billionaires. Most come from finance and technology and the overwhelming majority founded something (roughly 70%). The richest group of billionaires come from the tech world.

When talking about billionaires you also have separate income from assets, like with all business people.

When you talk about tax just know the top 1% of income earners (over $650k give or take) pay about 40% of the income taxes, greater than 1T dollars and more than the bottom 90% combined. Thats not an argument against higher tax rates just covering the current reality.

So, to me, you're really having at least 3 separate discussions here. What should CEO compensation look like, what sort of taxes should the top 1,000 earners pay and how do you slow the gap between those at $100,000 and those at $1,000,000,000. All 3 are interesting conversations.
FLBear5630
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nein51 said:

Porteroso said:

Osodecentx said:

Porteroso said:

boognish_bear said:



Every time I mention this I get some dumb response like "you're just jealous that you're not that rich."

It would be nice if we could just admit that this is not the direction we want to go. Shrinking the middle class, watching the generationally impoverished stay generationally impoverished, all the while a Bill Gates has the means to eradicate entire diseases on an entire continent....

Wealth is power, and much like we fought a war to make sure political elites dont decide everything for us, we are going to have to realize that we also dont want a few super rich deciding everything for us.

A system that rewards Bezos with billions for his successful company, while not providing for his employees' basic needs, and somehow not even generating corporate tax most years.... is not a good system.


It is a problem, a bigger problem are the solutions. What are your suggestions?

Tie the max payments of CEOs in some way to the income of their employees. Say you have a huge year. The CEO should get a bonus, sure, but give everyone else nothing? Of course it is a massive slippery slope. Once you let voters weigh in on it, they will want the CEOs to be paid much less than I would think is fair. The tyranny of the majority.

Another way is some form of accountability, where say a CEO is normally taking home 25x the average employee, but suddenly id slated to get 250x the average employee, triggers some sort of external review where they have to justify it.

I am also in favor of more tax brackets. Bringing home $3m is not the same as bringing home $3bn.

My last idea is to copy what other countries do that works. Like Germany. Tax automation so that when jobs are lost to automation, the government pays to retain factory workers for new fields. Same with AI.

You need to split your argument into multiple segments because arguing about millionaires and billionaires is not the same thing. When you talk about billionaires you're talking about around 3,000 on the planet and only around 30% of those are from the U.S. so you're talking about, roughly, 1,000 people.

Average CEO pay at the S&P500s is around 18mm per year. Outside of that the number drops to around 850k.

Very few (as in almost none) CEOs become billionaires. Most come from finance and technology and the overwhelming majority founded something (roughly 70%). The richest group of billionaires come from the tech world.

When talking about billionaires you also have separate income from assets, like with all business people.

When you talk about tax just know the top 1% of income earners (over $650k give or take) pay about 40% of the income taxes, greater than 1T dollars and more than the bottom 90% combined. Thats not an argument against higher tax rates just covering the current reality.

So, to me, you're really having at least 3 separate discussions here. What should CEO compensation look like, what sort of taxes should the top 1,000 earners pay and how do you slow the gap between those at $100,000 and those at $1,000,000,000. All 3 are interesting conversations.

Agree. But while separate conversations, they are interconnected.

For example, CEO/Executive bonuses are an issue and impact the gap between the 100k and 1M group specifically as keeping overhead down does impact the compensation packages that CEO/Execs get. Perfect example, most CEO/Exec evals are separate from the rest of the company. CEO/Execs are directly through BOD, while the employees go through HR. A common situation is general employees not getting merit increases and only getting COLA while BOD gives CEO/Exec bonuses and increases far beyond COLA. I see it every year.

Not only is there little to no incentive to grow salaries, there is an incentive to gut it. How many over 50s have you seen eliminated and replaced with either fractional or younger/cheaper alternatives? People that have done nothing but excelled until they reached the point where they are eliminated because they cost too much, while CEOs get comically big bonuses for doing it.

This is the downside of capitalism, unless you are the CEO...
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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FLBear5630
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boognish_bear said:



You guys don't find this bothersome?
boognish_bear
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KaiBear
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boognish_bear said:




More likely Massey is in office longer than Trump.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Jack Bauer
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Alexa, show me a human with a cartoon face...

boognish_bear
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The_barBEARian
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boognish_bear said:



boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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FLBear5630
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boognish_bear said:




This is what I have been talking about. There is no concern for the realities of governing in our system. He is going to put his Party in the minority position for what? He has good ideas, he is more interested in personal vendettas than accomplishing goals. Unless the goal is personal wealth, he had dine that well and set up his kids to make more. Didnt we crucify Biden for this?
Osodecentx
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Jack Bauer said:

Alexa, show me a human with a cartoon face...




Unbelievable
boognish_bear
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nein51
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Osodecentx said:

Jack Bauer said:

Alexa, show me a human with a cartoon face...




Unbelievable

Really, other than riding his dad's coattails, what has he done that hasn't been about banging young chicks?

Why would anyone want to risk platforming him? No way the juice is worth the squeeze.
nein51
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boognish_bear said:



Been saying it for a while. The overwhelming majority of people are more centrists than anything else and when the economy didn't immediately take off Trump was going to be in trouble.

He's a blowhard and a bully and people just don't like that. They were willing to tolerate it when gas prices were low and their 401k looked ok. When the policy isn't working you're just left with the same guy people didn't like 6 years ago.
KaiBear
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nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Been saying it for a while. The overwhelming majority of people are more centrists than anything else and when the economy didn't immediately take off Trump was going to be in trouble.

He's a blowhard and a bully and people just don't like that. They were willing to tolerate it when gas prices were low and their 401k looked ok. When the policy isn't working you're just left with the same guy people didn't like 6 years ago.


A war obviously on behalf of a country widely believed to be bribing our federal government officials ( of both parties ) doesn't help.
boognish_bear
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KaiBear said:

nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Been saying it for a while. The overwhelming majority of people are more centrists than anything else and when the economy didn't immediately take off Trump was going to be in trouble.

He's a blowhard and a bully and people just don't like that. They were willing to tolerate it when gas prices were low and their 401k looked ok. When the policy isn't working you're just left with the same guy people didn't like 6 years ago.


A war obviously on behalf of a country widely believed to be bribing our federal government officials ( of both parties ) doesn't help.


And one he said he would not get us into at that
william
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TCILFNOC!

- UF

{ sipping covfefe }

{ eating victory }

D!!

pro ecclesia, pro javelina
nein51
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KaiBear said:

nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Been saying it for a while. The overwhelming majority of people are more centrists than anything else and when the economy didn't immediately take off Trump was going to be in trouble.

He's a blowhard and a bully and people just don't like that. They were willing to tolerate it when gas prices were low and their 401k looked ok. When the policy isn't working you're just left with the same guy people didn't like 6 years ago.


A war obviously on behalf of a country widely believed to be bribing our federal government officials ( of both parties ) doesn't help.

Isolationism is not a policy position it's a pipe dream.
KaiBear
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nein51 said:

KaiBear said:

nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Been saying it for a while. The overwhelming majority of people are more centrists than anything else and when the economy didn't immediately take off Trump was going to be in trouble.

He's a blowhard and a bully and people just don't like that. They were willing to tolerate it when gas prices were low and their 401k looked ok. When the policy isn't working you're just left with the same guy people didn't like 6 years ago.


A war obviously on behalf of a country widely believed to be bribing our federal government officials ( of both parties ) doesn't help.

Isolationism is not a policy position it's a pipe dream.


Works inexpensively for most countries
nein51
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KaiBear said:

nein51 said:

KaiBear said:

nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Been saying it for a while. The overwhelming majority of people are more centrists than anything else and when the economy didn't immediately take off Trump was going to be in trouble.

He's a blowhard and a bully and people just don't like that. They were willing to tolerate it when gas prices were low and their 401k looked ok. When the policy isn't working you're just left with the same guy people didn't like 6 years ago.


A war obviously on behalf of a country widely believed to be bribing our federal government officials ( of both parties ) doesn't help.

Isolationism is not a policy position it's a pipe dream.

Works inexpensively for most countries

Because someone else does the work for them.
KaiBear
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nein51 said:

KaiBear said:

nein51 said:

KaiBear said:

nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Been saying it for a while. The overwhelming majority of people are more centrists than anything else and when the economy didn't immediately take off Trump was going to be in trouble.

He's a blowhard and a bully and people just don't like that. They were willing to tolerate it when gas prices were low and their 401k looked ok. When the policy isn't working you're just left with the same guy people didn't like 6 years ago.


A war obviously on behalf of a country widely believed to be bribing our federal government officials ( of both parties ) doesn't help.

Isolationism is not a policy position it's a pipe dream.

Works inexpensively for most countries

Because someone else does the work for them.


Well our role of world's policeman has cost trillions of dollars and thousands of dead.

Won the gratitude of no one.

Time for a different approach
The_barBEARian
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nein51 said:

KaiBear said:

nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Been saying it for a while. The overwhelming majority of people are more centrists than anything else and when the economy didn't immediately take off Trump was going to be in trouble.

He's a blowhard and a bully and people just don't like that. They were willing to tolerate it when gas prices were low and their 401k looked ok. When the policy isn't working you're just left with the same guy people didn't like 6 years ago.


A war obviously on behalf of a country widely believed to be bribing our federal government officials ( of both parties ) doesn't help.

Isolationism is not a policy position it's a pipe dream.


Not wanting war = isolationism?
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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