Sam Lowry said:

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Taiwan is officially part of China. Invading would certainly change the status quo, as would supporting independence.

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You are merely trolling again.

Gets old.

Back to ignore you go.

The situation in China is complex by American standards, and a lot of people, including many in Government and the Media, don't pay attention to elements and contexts important to the matter.

Part of the problem is Chiang Kai-Shek. When Japan invaded China, Chiang led a resistance of sorts, but it included deals with Chinese mobsters. When the war was over, the problem of Chiang's relationship dogged Chiang, and Mao played hard on that. A lot of Chinese were angered not only by Chiang's relationship with mobsters but also his refusal to disavow his friendship with them.

Mao's revolution shoved the Nationalists to the island they now occupy. Mao originally wanted to eliminate the Nationalist regime, but stopped not only because of the problems in trying to invade Taiwan, but also because Mao understood he could use Taiwan as a scapegoat for his own mistakes and flaws. The CCP still uses that when they can.

It should also be understood that the existence of both Beijing and Taipei claiming to represent China as a whole has allowed a lot of nations to work deals with whatever version of China served their interests. That is, nations ranging from Vietnam to Singapore to Japan found arrangements according to their needs, something which would be altered if Beijing invaded Taipei, or if Taiwan became independent. Accordingly, a number of Asian nations oppose either of those things happened.

The recent aggressions of note involve cyber attacks by Beijing against Taipei, continued annexation of Taiwan fishing waters by Communist China, and a string of IP theft attempts by China against Taiwan chip makers. That's one reason Taiwan has made a deal to have chips manufactured in the US. It not only physically makes it harder for Beijing to steal IP from design labs in the US, it also gives the US interest in Taiwan's Chip industry.

It is therefore extremely unlikely that Trump would push for Taiwan to declare official independence, but very likely that Trump would push back against the CCP's aggression noted above. Economic and diplomatic tools are most likely already in play.

Oldbear83 said:

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The situation in China is complex by American standards, and a lot of people, including many in Government and the Media, don't pay attention to elements and contexts important to the matter.

Part of the problem is Chiang Kai-Shek. When Japan invaded China, Chiang led a resistance of sorts, but it included deals with Chinese mobsters. When the war was over, the problem of Chiang's relationship dogged Chiang, and Mao played hard on that. A lot of Chinese were angered not only by Chiang's relationship with mobsters but also his refusal to disavow his friendship with them.

Mao's revolution shoved the Nationalists to the island they now occupy. Mao originally wanted to eliminate the Nationalist regime, but stopped not only because of the problems in trying to invade Taiwan, but also because Mao understood he could use Taiwan as a scapegoat for his own mistakes and flaws. The CCP still uses that when they can.

It should also be understood that the existence of both Beijing and Taipei claiming to represent China as a whole has allowed a lot of nations to work deals with whatever version of China served their interests. That is, nations ranging from Vietnam to Singapore to Japan found arrangements according to their needs, something which would be altered if Beijing invaded Taipei, or if Taiwan became independent. Accordingly, a number of Asian nations oppose either of those things happened.

The recent aggressions of note involve cyber attacks by Beijing against Taipei, continued annexation of Taiwan fishing waters by Communist China, and a string of IP theft attempts by China against Taiwan chip makers. That's one reason Taiwan has made a deal to have chips manufactured in the US. It not only physically makes it harder for Beijing to steal IP from design labs in the US, it also gives the US interest in Taiwan's Chip industry.

It is therefore extremely unlikely that Trump would push for Taiwan to declare official independence, but very likely that Trump would push back against the CCP's aggression noted above. Economic and diplomatic tools are most likely already in play.

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I have no problem with using economic and diplomatic tools, as you say, to protect our interests in Taiwan. What I'd object to is the US seeding nationalist propaganda and fomenting violence as we did in Ukraine. The result would be similarly unsuccessful, but with much greater losses to us.

whiterock said:

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KaiBear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Taiwan is officially part of China. Invading would certainly change the status quo, as would supporting independence.

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You are merely trolling again.

Gets old.

Back to ignore you go.

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USG is certainly not urging anyone in Taiwan to declare independence, in no small part because the Taiwan has a one-China policy as well, enshrined in its Constitution, which would have to be amended to declare independence.

The people talking most about Taiwan independence are Sam & his merry band of critics of the USG. They are desperate for it to happen, so a war can break out and pound the table that the war-mongering USG caused it all to happen.

The projection at play is palpable.....

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It's unfair of you to troll KaiBear in this way, but I must appreciate your aplomb. If you're going to tell a lie, by all means make it a big one.

Sam Lowry said:

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KaiBear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

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whiterock said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

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Unless the US is willing to use nukes; we would be unable to stop China in any invasion of Taiwan.

Far too few ground troops in the region and our supply lines would be thousands of miles long.

Anyone playing internet Rambo and ignoring the tactical realties involved would be best served by never examining a map.

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China would lose millions of soldiers, tens of thousands of airplanes, and virtually their entire Navy trying to take Taiwan. This isn't the English Channel in 1944. It would be an absolute turkey shoot.

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Ridiculous

Zero chance China would lose 'millions' of troops. 'Tens of thousands' of planes; or their 'entire navy'.

China has dramatically upgraded their military over the last 10 years.

Same cannot be said for the US.

And again, our supply lines would be unable to keep our forces rapidly resupplied .

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It is true that China wins almost every war game we run on Taiwan.

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The only winning move for the US.........

is not to play.

As the American people will NEVER support a war with China over Taiwan.





Period

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if the American people want to have jobs, computers to help do those jobs, cars to help get them to those jobs, and a host f other things in life, then they'll understand why Taiwan is absolutely an American national security concern.

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You know; or at least should know…….the American people will not willingly risk their lives in defense of Taiwan.

Regardless whatever reasons the media attempts to sell them.

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I don't know if that is true. Taiwan has a special relationship with the US and is looked on very fondly by Americans of all persuasions. So I think many if not most would support serious action in defense of Taiwan.

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Taiwan's relationship with the US and China is very good as of now. There is no need for us to "defend" Taiwan unless we provoke a Chinese attack on it...which I'm sure some are working hard to do.

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China has been on a determined path to invade Taiwan for at least 40 years.

Only the US Navy has prevented such an invasion up to this point.

However China has dramatically accelerated their military building program over the last 15 years. At a minimum they are at par with the US in the region of Taiwan.

It has clearly been China doing the provoking in the South China Sea and throughout much of the Far East.

Not the US.

Trump is obviously aware of the situation. A huge reason why he wants peace in Europe and a rebuilding of the US economy.

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China and Taiwan are growing closer all the time. Invading would be a logistical nightmare. These are both powerful reasons why China doesn't want war...and why we do.

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I am curious - who within our govt. wants war with China?

Oldbear83 said:

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When I was growing up, everyone shook their heads about the Appeasement policy in Europe in the 1930s. Didn't the government know that would lead to war?

It seemed absurd that a reasonable person could believe appeasement was the best course.

Yet here we are, with Sam telling us yet again how important appeasing China is to avoiding war.

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I mean, to be fair, you're talking about a poster who thought it was a good idea to allow Hitler to take Europe, and blames the US for Pearl Harbor (he says we should have kept supplying them materials to build their war machine, and claims they were justified in attacking when we refused to support their bloodlust).

And of course, you know his position on Putin.

Not exactly a rational or moral person.

Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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When I was growing up, everyone shook their heads about the Appeasement policy in Europe in the 1930s. Didn't the government know that would lead to war?

It seemed absurd that a reasonable person could believe appeasement was the best course.

Yet here we are, with Sam telling us yet again how important appeasing China is to avoiding war.

---

I mean, to be fair, you're talking about a poster who thought it was a good idea to allow Hitler to take Europe, and blames the US for Pearl Harbor (he says we should have kept supplying them materials to build their war machine, and claims they were justified in attacking when we refused to support their bloodlust).

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Again, this is incorrect.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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When I was growing up, everyone shook their heads about the Appeasement policy in Europe in the 1930s. Didn't the government know that would lead to war?

It seemed absurd that a reasonable person could believe appeasement was the best course.

Yet here we are, with Sam telling us yet again how important appeasing China is to avoiding war.

---

I mean, to be fair, you're talking about a poster who thought it was a good idea to allow Hitler to take Europe, and blames the US for Pearl Harbor (he says we should have kept supplying them materials to build their war machine, and claims they were justified in attacking when we refused to support their bloodlust).

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Again, this is incorrect.

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What's incorrect? Feel free to clarify if you believe I misstated your position.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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When you buy American, the money stays in your communities. The positive impact of the multiplier effect is huge. Unfettered globalism with massive trade imbalances has sent the money upward and out of the middle class and then overseas, thereby draining communities of salaries and workers.

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Should buying Anerican be a choice? My dad always teased me for buying mazdas and a spitfire. I told him freedom was an amazing thing. He later bought a mazda pickup . After that he drive several Toyotas. He never went back.

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How long have you been an Anerican?

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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When you buy American, the money stays in your communities. The positive impact of the multiplier effect is huge. Unfettered globalism with massive trade imbalances has sent the money upward and out of the middle class and then overseas, thereby draining communities of salaries and workers.

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Should buying Anerican be a choice? My dad always teased me for buying mazdas and a spitfire. I told him freedom was an amazing thing. He later bought a mazda pickup . After that he drive several Toyotas. He never went back.

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hopefully in a southern state.. the frame rails of toyota trucks are very prone to rust

4th and Inches said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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When you buy American, the money stays in your communities. The positive impact of the multiplier effect is huge. Unfettered globalism with massive trade imbalances has sent the money upward and out of the middle class and then overseas, thereby draining communities of salaries and workers.

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Should buying Anerican be a choice? My dad always teased me for buying mazdas and a spitfire. I told him freedom was an amazing thing. He later bought a mazda pickup . After that he drive several Toyotas. He never went back.

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hopefully in a southern state.. the frame rails of toyota trucks are very prone to rust

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The exhaust manifolds rot away, the frames are junk, the brake lines rot away.

The new Toyota trucks are having all kinds of engine failure issues.

Assassin said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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When you buy American, the money stays in your communities. The positive impact of the multiplier effect is huge. Unfettered globalism with massive trade imbalances has sent the money upward and out of the middle class and then overseas, thereby draining communities of salaries and workers.

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Should buying Anerican be a choice? My dad always teased me for buying mazdas and a spitfire. I told him freedom was an amazing thing. He later bought a mazda pickup . After that he drive several Toyotas. He never went back.

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How long have you been an Anerican?

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1960.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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When I was growing up, everyone shook their heads about the Appeasement policy in Europe in the 1930s. Didn't the government know that would lead to war?

It seemed absurd that a reasonable person could believe appeasement was the best course.

Yet here we are, with Sam telling us yet again how important appeasing China is to avoiding war.

---

I mean, to be fair, you're talking about a poster who thought it was a good idea to allow Hitler to take Europe, and blames the US for Pearl Harbor (he says we should have kept supplying them materials to build their war machine, and claims they were justified in attacking when we refused to support their bloodlust).

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Again, this is incorrect.

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What's incorrect? Feel free to clarify if you believe I misstated your position.

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Like most of Trump's opponents, he has no position. He's just engaging in critical theory against the positions of others, which frequently lands him in contorted absurdity.

My latest UnHerd column. About the lost art of strategic thinking in European politics. https://t.co/GYgfjMrpPs

— Wolfgang Munchau (@EuroBriefing) March 10, 2025

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Assassin said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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When you buy American, the money stays in your communities. The positive impact of the multiplier effect is huge. Unfettered globalism with massive trade imbalances has sent the money upward and out of the middle class and then overseas, thereby draining communities of salaries and workers.

---

Should buying Anerican be a choice? My dad always teased me for buying mazdas and a spitfire. I told him freedom was an amazing thing. He later bought a mazda pickup . After that he drive several Toyotas. He never went back.

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How long have you been an Anerican?

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1960.

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What state is Anerica in?

Assassin said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Assassin said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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When you buy American, the money stays in your communities. The positive impact of the multiplier effect is huge. Unfettered globalism with massive trade imbalances has sent the money upward and out of the middle class and then overseas, thereby draining communities of salaries and workers.

---

Should buying Anerican be a choice? My dad always teased me for buying mazdas and a spitfire. I told him freedom was an amazing thing. He later bought a mazda pickup . After that he drive several Toyotas. He never went back.

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How long have you been an Anerican?

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1960.

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What state is Anerica in?

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Sorry about my typo. I forgot how easily confused you are.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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When I was growing up, everyone shook their heads about the Appeasement policy in Europe in the 1930s. Didn't the government know that would lead to war?

It seemed absurd that a reasonable person could believe appeasement was the best course.

Yet here we are, with Sam telling us yet again how important appeasing China is to avoiding war.

---

I mean, to be fair, you're talking about a poster who thought it was a good idea to allow Hitler to take Europe, and blames the US for Pearl Harbor (he says we should have kept supplying them materials to build their war machine, and claims they were justified in attacking when we refused to support their bloodlust).

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Again, this is incorrect.

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What's incorrect? Feel free to clarify if you believe I misstated your position.

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No thanks. We've had this conversation too many times.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Assassin said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Assassin said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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When you buy American, the money stays in your communities. The positive impact of the multiplier effect is huge. Unfettered globalism with massive trade imbalances has sent the money upward and out of the middle class and then overseas, thereby draining communities of salaries and workers.

---

Should buying Anerican be a choice? My dad always teased me for buying mazdas and a spitfire. I told him freedom was an amazing thing. He later bought a mazda pickup . After that he drive several Toyotas. He never went back.

---

How long have you been an Anerican?

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1960.

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What state is Anerica in?

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Sorry about my typo. I forgot how easily confused you are.

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I did go to Midway, maybe that explains it?

Surprised I don't remember you. Thought you were a Richfield product

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Surprised I don't remember you. Thought you were a Richfield product

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Midway 11 years, then Richfield

12 years here. Probably a lot younger than me.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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When I was growing up, everyone shook their heads about the Appeasement policy in Europe in the 1930s. Didn't the government know that would lead to war?

It seemed absurd that a reasonable person could believe appeasement was the best course.

Yet here we are, with Sam telling us yet again how important appeasing China is to avoiding war.

---

I mean, to be fair, you're talking about a poster who thought it was a good idea to allow Hitler to take Europe, and blames the US for Pearl Harbor (he says we should have kept supplying them materials to build their war machine, and claims they were justified in attacking when we refused to support their bloodlust).

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Again, this is incorrect.

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What's incorrect? Feel free to clarify if you believe I misstated your position.

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No thanks. We've had this conversation too many times.

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I understand why you don't want to clarify. You're not quibbling with the substance because we both know what I said was generally accurate.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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When I was growing up, everyone shook their heads about the Appeasement policy in Europe in the 1930s. Didn't the government know that would lead to war?

It seemed absurd that a reasonable person could believe appeasement was the best course.

Yet here we are, with Sam telling us yet again how important appeasing China is to avoiding war.

---

I mean, to be fair, you're talking about a poster who thought it was a good idea to allow Hitler to take Europe, and blames the US for Pearl Harbor (he says we should have kept supplying them materials to build their war machine, and claims they were justified in attacking when we refused to support their bloodlust).

---

Again, this is incorrect.

---

What's incorrect? Feel free to clarify if you believe I misstated your position.

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No thanks. We've had this conversation too many times.

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I understand why you don't want to clarify. You're not quibbling with the substance because we both know what I said was generally accurate.

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Again, no.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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When I was growing up, everyone shook their heads about the Appeasement policy in Europe in the 1930s. Didn't the government know that would lead to war?

It seemed absurd that a reasonable person could believe appeasement was the best course.

Yet here we are, with Sam telling us yet again how important appeasing China is to avoiding war.

---

I mean, to be fair, you're talking about a poster who thought it was a good idea to allow Hitler to take Europe, and blames the US for Pearl Harbor (he says we should have kept supplying them materials to build their war machine, and claims they were justified in attacking when we refused to support their bloodlust).

---

Again, this is incorrect.

---

What's incorrect? Feel free to clarify if you believe I misstated your position.

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No thanks. We've had this conversation too many times.

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I understand why you don't want to clarify. You're not quibbling with the substance because we both know what I said was generally accurate.

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Again, no.

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Predicted this would be your response, without once again clarifying what was incorrect.