Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Guy Noir said:

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The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

I didn't see much of that in the linked articles. Mostly just people concerned about the economy, healthcare, military in the streets, etc. I'd say the average American would have to go out of his way not to find at least some common ground there.

---

You're not paying much attention then. I saw MSNBC interview a homosexual dressed as a pink, unicorn. The crowd had numerous homosexuals and transsexuals in provocative outfits. Trans flags and Palestinian flags everywhere. And then, of course, there was a ton of antifa. I was in Chicago during the protests, and antifa was everywhere. Numerous people dressed up in quasimilitary outfits with black masks. I was very thankful for the national guard presence.

Regardless, the issues you listed are of course concerns of liberals and democrats, of which I'm sure you do indeed have common ground with. But not the majority of normal Americans. But of course, we all know where your sympathies lie.

---

The economy is a concern of liberals and Democrats? Yeah, that sounds like a winning message.

---

Democrat concerns over the economy are democrat concerns. I haven't seen any legitimate concerns of Trump's handling of the economy raised in the protests.

I have seen a lot of trans and Palestinian flags though. But unlike you, I was actually paying attention.

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I'm sure you were.

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Covid definitely broke a few people on the right. I'm afraid some of y'all got debunked one too many times and never recovered.

---

I can certainly understand the suspension of Constitutional rights, as advocated by some such as yourself, as a legitimate concern that could have caused some consternation among actual conservatives. You got scared and went all in on govt. tyranny, which is what of course makes your current concerns about this administration so comedic.

You are a walking dichotomy.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Covid definitely broke a few people on the right. I'm afraid some of y'all got debunked one too many times and never recovered.

---

I can certainly understand the suspension of Constitutional rights, as advocated by some such as yourself, as a legitimate concern that could have caused some consternation among actual conservatives. You got scared and went all in on govt. tyranny, which is what of course makes your current concerns about this administration so comedic.

You are a walking dichotomy.

---

Meaningless words. What you call a suspension of rights was based on long-settled law. You couldn't specify a right that was actually violated if someone held a flu shot to your arm.

There were a few acts of discrimination, which I was against and the courts rightly struck down. Otherwise, these "tyrannical" restrictions were almost universally upheld by judges of all stripes.

---

Frank Galvin said:

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Mothra said:

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I think we've all given Sam too much credit over the years. He is a glib and uninformed buffoon.

---

Why can't you tone down the ad hominem if you are the logician and Christian you think you are?

---

Wangchung said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Mothra said:

---

I think we've all given Sam too much credit over the years. He is a glib and uninformed buffoon.

---

Why can't you tone down the ad hominem if you are the logician and Christian you think you are?

---

If is t ad hominem if it's true and in reference to behavior that is restricting honest discourse.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Covid definitely broke a few people on the right. I'm afraid some of y'all got debunked one too many times and never recovered.

---

I can certainly understand the suspension of Constitutional rights, as advocated by some such as yourself, as a legitimate concern that could have caused some consternation among actual conservatives. You got scared and went all in on govt. tyranny, which is what of course makes your current concerns about this administration so comedic.

You are a walking dichotomy.

---

Meaningless words. What you call a suspension of rights was based on long-settled law. You couldn't specify a right that was actually violated if someone held a flu shot to your arm.

There were a few acts of discrimination, which I was against and the courts rightly struck down. Otherwise, these "tyrannical" restrictions were almost universally upheld by judges of all stripes.

---

I understand why such words would be meaningless to a spineless coward so willing to cast aside our rights because of his fear of COVID, but they're not meaningless to most Americans who value our Bill of Rights.

As for rights that were actually violated, well, let's begin with the First Amendment, which was repeatedly violated by states throughout the union. Contrary to your false assertions, several of those restrictions were indeed struck down. There was the Nov. 25, 2020 Supreme Court ruling wherein the Court prevented the application of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's executive order that limited the number of individuals who could gather in places of worship. There was the Feb. 5, 2021 order, wherein the Court granted a major portion of injunctive relief requested in the California case in South Bay United Pentecostal Church v. Newsom. The court prohibited the state from enforcing its prohibition against indoor worship services. And there was the April 9, 2021 order wherein the Court again weighed in on California's gathering restrictions, granting an injunction in Tandon v. Newsom against a state pandemic-related regulation that had the effect of restricting at-home Bible studies and prayer meetings by limiting all gatherings in private homes to no more than three households at a time. And then of course, while not a First Amended issue, there was NFIB v. Department of Labor, wherein the Court struck down the ridiculous OSHA mandate. And of course, these are just the Supreme Court rulings. There were a number of lower court rulings that were similar.

All of that debunking aside, I didn't actually say the Courts didn't rule in favor of some of the suspension of rights. They did indeed, but that doesn't mean such rights were not suspended. And of course, there wasn't a one of them you didn't support. I recall you saying you would have forced businesses to shut down even longer. But I can understand why you are now attempting to deflect.

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Mothra said:

---

I think we've all given Sam too much credit over the years. He is a glib and uninformed buffoon.

---

Why can't you tone down the ad hominem if you are the logician and Christian you think you are?

---

If is t ad hominem if it's true and in reference to behavior that is restricting honest discourse.

---

Not sure I understand. But the remark I quoted was not part of any logical argument-it said don't believe what Sam says becuase he is an"uniformed buffoon." Classic ad hominem and decidely un-Christian.

Also ironic--Mothra later attacks Sam for complaining about the Trump administration's attack on liberty as hypocritical because Sam allegedly supported Biden's restricton on liberty during COVID. Somehow, the same logice in revese would not apply to Mothra who supports the Trump administration's curtailing of liberties that he found so repugnant when Biden was in office. He also forgets that 90% of the restrictions were those of governors and mayors rather than Biden.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Covid definitely broke a few people on the right. I'm afraid some of y'all got debunked one too many times and never recovered.

---

I can certainly understand the suspension of Constitutional rights, as advocated by some such as yourself, as a legitimate concern that could have caused some consternation among actual conservatives. You got scared and went all in on govt. tyranny, which is what of course makes your current concerns about this administration so comedic.

You are a walking dichotomy.

---

Meaningless words. What you call a suspension of rights was based on long-settled law. You couldn't specify a right that was actually violated if someone held a flu shot to your arm.

There were a few acts of discrimination, which I was against and the courts rightly struck down. Otherwise, these "tyrannical" restrictions were almost universally upheld by judges of all stripes.

---

I understand why such words would be meaningless to a spineless coward so willing to cast aside our rights because of his fear of COVID, but they're not meaningless to most Americans who value our Bill of Rights.

As for rights that were actually violated, well, let's begin with the First Amendment, which was repeatedly violated by states throughout the union. Contrary to your false assertions, several of those restrictions were indeed struck down. There was the Nov. 25, 2020 Supreme Court ruling wherein the Court prevented the application of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's executive order that limited the number of individuals who could gather in places of worship. There was the Feb. 5, 2021 order, wherein the Court granted a major portion of injunctive relief requested in the California case in South Bay United Pentecostal Church v. Newsom. The court prohibited the state from enforcing its prohibition against indoor worship services. And there was the April 9, 2021 order wherein the Court again weighed in on California's gathering restrictions, granting an injunction in Tandon v. Newsom against a state pandemic-related regulation that had the effect of restricting at-home Bible studies and prayer meetings by limiting all gatherings in private homes to no more than three households at a time. And then of course, while not a First Amended issue, there was NFIB v. Department of Labor, wherein the Court struck down the ridiculous OSHA mandate. And of course, these are just the Supreme Court rulings. There were a number of lower court rulings that were similar.

All of that debunking aside, I didn't actually say the Courts didn't rule in favor of some of the suspension of rights. They did indeed, but that doesn't mean such rights were not suspended. And of course, there wasn't a one of them you didn't support. I recall you saying you would have forced businesses to shut down even longer. But I can understand why you are now attempting to deflect.

---

That's a longer and more dramatic way of saying what I just said. The Covid deniers won a few discrimination cases and lost most of the rest.

The pandemic was a unique situation which didn't lend itself to neat, ideological answers. There's no conservative principle that says how long or short a lockdown should be. It's a judgment call. But the principle that cities and states have the right to take emergency action is undeniable.

Bottom line, Biden wasn't disappearing people without due process or deploying troops in American cities. If the only way to justify such policies is to harp on about masks and social distancing, it shows you have a pretty poor defense.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Covid definitely broke a few people on the right. I'm afraid some of y'all got debunked one too many times and never recovered.

---

I can certainly understand the suspension of Constitutional rights, as advocated by some such as yourself, as a legitimate concern that could have caused some consternation among actual conservatives. You got scared and went all in on govt. tyranny, which is what of course makes your current concerns about this administration so comedic.

You are a walking dichotomy.

---

Meaningless words. What you call a suspension of rights was based on long-settled law. You couldn't specify a right that was actually violated if someone held a flu shot to your arm.

There were a few acts of discrimination, which I was against and the courts rightly struck down. Otherwise, these "tyrannical" restrictions were almost universally upheld by judges of all stripes.

---

I understand why such words would be meaningless to a spineless coward so willing to cast aside our rights because of his fear of COVID, but they're not meaningless to most Americans who value our Bill of Rights.

As for rights that were actually violated, well, let's begin with the First Amendment, which was repeatedly violated by states throughout the union. Contrary to your false assertions, several of those restrictions were indeed struck down. There was the Nov. 25, 2020 Supreme Court ruling wherein the Court prevented the application of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's executive order that limited the number of individuals who could gather in places of worship. There was the Feb. 5, 2021 order, wherein the Court granted a major portion of injunctive relief requested in the California case in South Bay United Pentecostal Church v. Newsom. The court prohibited the state from enforcing its prohibition against indoor worship services. And there was the April 9, 2021 order wherein the Court again weighed in on California's gathering restrictions, granting an injunction in Tandon v. Newsom against a state pandemic-related regulation that had the effect of restricting at-home Bible studies and prayer meetings by limiting all gatherings in private homes to no more than three households at a time. And then of course, while not a First Amended issue, there was NFIB v. Department of Labor, wherein the Court struck down the ridiculous OSHA mandate. And of course, these are just the Supreme Court rulings. There were a number of lower court rulings that were similar.

All of that debunking aside, I didn't actually say the Courts didn't rule in favor of some of the suspension of rights. They did indeed, but that doesn't mean such rights were not suspended. And of course, there wasn't a one of them you didn't support. I recall you saying you would have forced businesses to shut down even longer. But I can understand why you are now attempting to deflect.

---

That's a longer and more dramatic way of saying what I just said. The Covid deniers won a few discrimination cases and lost most of the rest.

The pandemic was a unique situation which didn't lend itself to neat, ideological answers. There's no conservative principle that says how long or short a lockdown should be. It's a judgment call. But the principle that cities and states have the right to take emergency action is undeniable.

Bottom line, Biden wasn't disappearing people without due process or deploying troops in American cities. If the only way to justify such policies is to harp on about masks and social distancing, it shows you have a pretty poor defense.

---

Nobody said or suggested cities didn't have a right to suspend certain fundamental rights. Again, try to read closer. What I said is that rights were suspended, and you were on board with same. In fact, for you, they weren't onerous enough.

So you can point to the legal victories all you want, but that is completely irrelevant to my point.

As for whether Trump deporting illegals and deploying national guard to cities is unconstitutional, I'll wait to see what the Supreme Court says on those things before declaring them unconstitutional. But it is correct that I generally don't have a problem with enforcing our immigration laws, nor with stepping in to protect the citizenry in lawless cities.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Covid definitely broke a few people on the right. I'm afraid some of y'all got debunked one too many times and never recovered.

---

I can certainly understand the suspension of Constitutional rights, as advocated by some such as yourself, as a legitimate concern that could have caused some consternation among actual conservatives. You got scared and went all in on govt. tyranny, which is what of course makes your current concerns about this administration so comedic.

You are a walking dichotomy.

---

Meaningless words. What you call a suspension of rights was based on long-settled law. You couldn't specify a right that was actually violated if someone held a flu shot to your arm.

There were a few acts of discrimination, which I was against and the courts rightly struck down. Otherwise, these "tyrannical" restrictions were almost universally upheld by judges of all stripes.

---

I understand why such words would be meaningless to a spineless coward so willing to cast aside our rights because of his fear of COVID, but they're not meaningless to most Americans who value our Bill of Rights.

As for rights that were actually violated, well, let's begin with the First Amendment, which was repeatedly violated by states throughout the union. Contrary to your false assertions, several of those restrictions were indeed struck down. There was the Nov. 25, 2020 Supreme Court ruling wherein the Court prevented the application of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's executive order that limited the number of individuals who could gather in places of worship. There was the Feb. 5, 2021 order, wherein the Court granted a major portion of injunctive relief requested in the California case in South Bay United Pentecostal Church v. Newsom. The court prohibited the state from enforcing its prohibition against indoor worship services. And there was the April 9, 2021 order wherein the Court again weighed in on California's gathering restrictions, granting an injunction in Tandon v. Newsom against a state pandemic-related regulation that had the effect of restricting at-home Bible studies and prayer meetings by limiting all gatherings in private homes to no more than three households at a time. And then of course, while not a First Amended issue, there was NFIB v. Department of Labor, wherein the Court struck down the ridiculous OSHA mandate. And of course, these are just the Supreme Court rulings. There were a number of lower court rulings that were similar.

All of that debunking aside, I didn't actually say the Courts didn't rule in favor of some of the suspension of rights. They did indeed, but that doesn't mean such rights were not suspended. And of course, there wasn't a one of them you didn't support. I recall you saying you would have forced businesses to shut down even longer. But I can understand why you are now attempting to deflect.

---

That's a longer and more dramatic way of saying what I just said. The Covid deniers won a few discrimination cases and lost most of the rest.

The pandemic was a unique situation which didn't lend itself to neat, ideological answers. There's no conservative principle that says how long or short a lockdown should be. It's a judgment call. But the principle that cities and states have the right to take emergency action is undeniable.

Bottom line, Biden wasn't disappearing people without due process or deploying troops in American cities. If the only way to justify such policies is to harp on about masks and social distancing, it shows you have a pretty poor defense.

---

Nobody said or suggested cities didn't have a right to suspend certain fundamental rights. Again, try to read closer. What I said is that rights were suspended, and you were on board with same. In fact, for you, they weren't onerous enough.

So you can point to the legal victories all you want, but that is completely irrelevant to my point.

As for whether Trump deporting illegals and deploying national guard to cities is unconstitutional, I'll wait to see what the Supreme Court says on those things before declaring them unconstitutional. But it is correct that I generally don't have a problem with enforcing our immigration laws, nor with stepping in to protect the citizenry in lawless cities.

---

Then what is your point?

---

Mothra said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Mothra said:

---

I think we've all given Sam too much credit over the years. He is a glib and uninformed buffoon.

---

Why can't you tone down the ad hominem if you are the logician and Christian you think you are?

---

If is t ad hominem if it's true and in reference to behavior that is restricting honest discourse.

---

Not sure I understand. But the remark I quoted was not part of any logical argument-it said don't believe what Sam says becuase he is an"uniformed buffoon." Classic ad hominem and decidely un-Christian.

Also ironic--Mothra later attacks Sam for complaining about the Trump administration's attack on liberty as hypocritical because Sam allegedly supported Biden's restricton on liberty during COVID. Somehow, the same logice in revese would not apply to Mothra who supports the Trump administration's curtailing of liberties that he found so repugnant when Biden was in office. He also forgets that 90% of the restrictions were those of governors and mayors rather than Biden.

---

Fair point on the ad hom, but the way the poster at issue responded initially was ad hom, and I felt deserved a similar retort. He's a condescending and smug individual. Those are facts.

As for your complaint, it's what we would call a strawman, Frank. And quite frankly, it's a doozy. Tell me, Frank, what curtailing of liberties has Trump engaged in which you now claim I support? Try to be specific. Also point me to the specific post where I supported same. Good luck (you're going to need it)!

Finally, I didn't state, much less suggest, that it was only your boy, Biden, curtailing liberties. Try to read closer Frank. Indeed, there were equal opportunity offenders in every Democrat-run city in America. You guys were little authoritarians, and Sam was all on-board. As an ardent supporter of Biden, I am sure you were as well, which is why you're now so defensive. Got to defend your boy.

---

Mothra said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Mothra said:

---

I think we've all given Sam too much credit over the years. He is a glib and uninformed buffoon.

---

Why can't you tone down the ad hominem if you are the logician and Christian you think you are?

---

If is t ad hominem if it's true and in reference to behavior that is restricting honest discourse.

---

Not sure I understand. But the remark I quoted was not part of any logical argument-it said don't believe what Sam says becuase he is an"uniformed buffoon." Classic ad hominem and decidely un-Christian.

Also ironic--Mothra later attacks Sam for complaining about the Trump administration's attack on liberty as hypocritical because Sam allegedly supported Biden's restricton on liberty during COVID. Somehow, the same logice in revese would not apply to Mothra who supports the Trump administration's curtailing of liberties that he found so repugnant when Biden was in office. He also forgets that 90% of the restrictions were those of governors and mayors rather than Biden.

---

Fair point on the ad hom, but the way the poster at issue responded initially was ad hom, and I felt deserved a similar retort. He's a condescending and smug individual. Those are facts.

As for your complaint, it's what we would call a strawman, Frank. And quite frankly, it's a doozy. Tell me, Frank, what curtailing of liberties has Trump engaged in which you now claim I support? Try to be specific. Also point me to the specific post where I supported same. Good luck (you're going to need it)!

Finally, I didn't state, much less suggest, that it was only your boy, Biden, curtailing liberties. Try to read closer Frank. Indeed, there were equal opportunity offenders in every Democrat-run city in America. You guys were little authoritarians, and Sam was all on-board. As an ardent supporter of Biden, I am sure you were as well, which is why you're now so defensive. Got to defend your boy.

---

Goose/Gander. I'll give you the carefully recorded citations for your Trump support when you do the same for my Biden support.

As for curtailing of liberties you can tell me whether you support detaining American citizens for attending rallies or appearing Latino? https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will#:~:text=We%20found%20more%20than%20170,families%20couldn't%20find%20them.

Use aggressive search and seizure tactics to "root out" those who fundmentally disagree with your ideology? https://www.cato.org/blog/trump-administrations-attack-first-amendment-rights-enabled-fourth-amendment-shortcomings.

Attmepting to jail people on the basis of evidence that career prosecutors who you apointed say is insufficient? https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/turmoil-virginia-us-attorneys-office-comey-indictment-2/story?id=126138109

Or how about just lighting random people up becuse you say they are commiting a crime? https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/20/ecuador-says-it-has-no-evidence-that-survivor-of-us-strike-in-caribbean-committed-any-crime-00616041

Maybe taking away someone's citizenship just because they were not born here? https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2025/06/27/trump-s-attack-on-birthright-citizenship-serves-to-expand-his-authority-by-jeopardizing-the-status-of-all-americans_6742782_23.html

Turning the US military to a nationwide police force seem like a good idea to you? https://www.crossroadstoday.com/news/politics/national-politics/fact-check-trump-s-false-claims-about-the-insurrection-act/article_a40c4d44-d729-586e-b5aa-e855ea3d0b5b.html

Banning transgender indviduals from military service solely on the basis of sex: https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/nulr/vol114/iss3/4/

Trump has also gutted the government's ability to police dsicrimination. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/27/magazine/trump-civil-rights-law-discrimination.html

Note that this is different than promoting DEI.

And so much more: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/5558907-trump-authoritarian-regime-threat/

---

Well, based on what you posted, you're going to have to explain to me what you mean by "curtailing liberties." Do you mean curtailing the liberties of actual citizens, or are you referring to people here illegally? Do you mean actual legislation or EO's, or just rumors of what Trump wants to do or has attempted to do?

Because most of this is spin and utter bull*****

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

As an example, if someone is in the United States without legal status, that person does not have an inalienable right to stay here, but he or she has human rights that should not be violated and limited due process rights.

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

As an example, if someone is in the United States without legal status, that person does not have an inalienable right to stay here, but he or she has human rights that should not be violated and limited due process rights.

---

Who do grants human rights?

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Mothra said:

---

I think we've all given Sam too much credit over the years. He is a glib and uninformed buffoon.

---

Why can't you tone down the ad hominem if you are the logician and Christian you think you are?

---

If is t ad hominem if it's true and in reference to behavior that is restricting honest discourse.

---

Not sure I understand. But the remark I quoted was not part of any logical argument-it said don't believe what Sam says becuase he is an"uniformed buffoon." Classic ad hominem and decidely un-Christian.

Also ironic--Mothra later attacks Sam for complaining about the Trump administration's attack on liberty as hypocritical because Sam allegedly supported Biden's restricton on liberty during COVID. Somehow, the same logice in revese would not apply to Mothra who supports the Trump administration's curtailing of liberties that he found so repugnant when Biden was in office. He also forgets that 90% of the restrictions were those of governors and mayors rather than Biden.

---

Fair point on the ad hom, but the way the poster at issue responded initially was ad hom, and I felt deserved a similar retort. He's a condescending and smug individual. Those are facts.

As for your complaint, it's what we would call a strawman, Frank. And quite frankly, it's a doozy. Tell me, Frank, what curtailing of liberties has Trump engaged in which you now claim I support? Try to be specific. Also point me to the specific post where I supported same. Good luck (you're going to need it)!

Finally, I didn't state, much less suggest, that it was only your boy, Biden, curtailing liberties. Try to read closer Frank. Indeed, there were equal opportunity offenders in every Democrat-run city in America. You guys were little authoritarians, and Sam was all on-board. As an ardent supporter of Biden, I am sure you were as well, which is why you're now so defensive. Got to defend your boy.

---

Goose/Gander. I'll give you the carefully recorded citations for your Trump support when you do the same for my Biden support.

As for curtailing of liberties you can tell me whether you support detaining American citizens for attending rallies or appearing Latino? https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will#:~:text=We%20found%20more%20than%20170,families%20couldn't%20find%20them.

Use aggressive search and seizure tactics to "root out" those who fundmentally disagree with your ideology? https://www.cato.org/blog/trump-administrations-attack-first-amendment-rights-enabled-fourth-amendment-shortcomings.

Attmepting to jail people on the basis of evidence that career prosecutors who you apointed say is insufficient? https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/turmoil-virginia-us-attorneys-office-comey-indictment-2/story?id=126138109

Or how about just lighting random people up becuse you say they are commiting a crime? https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/20/ecuador-says-it-has-no-evidence-that-survivor-of-us-strike-in-caribbean-committed-any-crime-00616041

Maybe taking away someone's citizenship just because they were not born here? https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2025/06/27/trump-s-attack-on-birthright-citizenship-serves-to-expand-his-authority-by-jeopardizing-the-status-of-all-americans_6742782_23.html

Turning the US military to a nationwide police force seem like a good idea to you? https://www.crossroadstoday.com/news/politics/national-politics/fact-check-trump-s-false-claims-about-the-insurrection-act/article_a40c4d44-d729-586e-b5aa-e855ea3d0b5b.html

Banning transgender indviduals from military service solely on the basis of sex: https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/nulr/vol114/iss3/4/

Trump has also gutted the government's ability to police dsicrimination. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/27/magazine/trump-civil-rights-law-discrimination.html

Note that this is different than promoting DEI.

And so much more: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/5558907-trump-authoritarian-regime-threat/

---

Well, based on what you posted, you're going to have to explain to me what you mean by "curtailing liberties." Do you mean curtailing the liberties of actual citizens, or are you referring to people here illegally? Do you mean actual legislation or EO's, or just rumors of what Trump wants to do or has attempted to do?

Because most of this is spin and utter bull*****

---

Curtailing of liberties was your term. As it was not limited to U.S. citizens or residents, I take it to mean a person's inalienable rights. As an example, if someone is in the United States without legal status, that person does not have an inalienable right to stay here, but he or she has human rights that should not be violated and limited due process rights. And if you want to call it spin and BS, that is your perogative, but it does not get the discussion anywhere.

Why is concern over the documented instnaces of ICE detaining American citizens with no evidence that they have committed a crime 'spin?"

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Covid definitely broke a few people on the right. I'm afraid some of y'all got debunked one too many times and never recovered.

---

I can certainly understand the suspension of Constitutional rights, as advocated by some such as yourself, as a legitimate concern that could have caused some consternation among actual conservatives. You got scared and went all in on govt. tyranny, which is what of course makes your current concerns about this administration so comedic.

You are a walking dichotomy.

---

Meaningless words. What you call a suspension of rights was based on long-settled law. You couldn't specify a right that was actually violated if someone held a flu shot to your arm.

There were a few acts of discrimination, which I was against and the courts rightly struck down. Otherwise, these "tyrannical" restrictions were almost universally upheld by judges of all stripes.

---

I understand why such words would be meaningless to a spineless coward so willing to cast aside our rights because of his fear of COVID, but they're not meaningless to most Americans who value our Bill of Rights.

As for rights that were actually violated, well, let's begin with the First Amendment, which was repeatedly violated by states throughout the union. Contrary to your false assertions, several of those restrictions were indeed struck down. There was the Nov. 25, 2020 Supreme Court ruling wherein the Court prevented the application of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's executive order that limited the number of individuals who could gather in places of worship. There was the Feb. 5, 2021 order, wherein the Court granted a major portion of injunctive relief requested in the California case in South Bay United Pentecostal Church v. Newsom. The court prohibited the state from enforcing its prohibition against indoor worship services. And there was the April 9, 2021 order wherein the Court again weighed in on California's gathering restrictions, granting an injunction in Tandon v. Newsom against a state pandemic-related regulation that had the effect of restricting at-home Bible studies and prayer meetings by limiting all gatherings in private homes to no more than three households at a time. And then of course, while not a First Amended issue, there was NFIB v. Department of Labor, wherein the Court struck down the ridiculous OSHA mandate. And of course, these are just the Supreme Court rulings. There were a number of lower court rulings that were similar.

All of that debunking aside, I didn't actually say the Courts didn't rule in favor of some of the suspension of rights. They did indeed, but that doesn't mean such rights were not suspended. And of course, there wasn't a one of them you didn't support. I recall you saying you would have forced businesses to shut down even longer. But I can understand why you are now attempting to deflect.

---

That's a longer and more dramatic way of saying what I just said. The Covid deniers won a few discrimination cases and lost most of the rest.

The pandemic was a unique situation which didn't lend itself to neat, ideological answers. There's no conservative principle that says how long or short a lockdown should be. It's a judgment call. But the principle that cities and states have the right to take emergency action is undeniable.

Bottom line, Biden wasn't disappearing people without due process or deploying troops in American cities. If the only way to justify such policies is to harp on about masks and social distancing, it shows you have a pretty poor defense.

---

Nobody said or suggested cities didn't have a right to suspend certain fundamental rights. Again, try to read closer. What I said is that rights were suspended, and you were on board with same. In fact, for you, they weren't onerous enough.

So you can point to the legal victories all you want, but that is completely irrelevant to my point.

As for whether Trump deporting illegals and deploying national guard to cities is unconstitutional, I'll wait to see what the Supreme Court says on those things before declaring them unconstitutional. But it is correct that I generally don't have a problem with enforcing our immigration laws, nor with stepping in to protect the citizenry in lawless cities.

---

Then what is your point?

---

Re-read the last post on page 4 of this thread, where we began discussing why actual conservatives were "broken," as you called them, regarding Covid. No need to repeat it.

That reminds me: gotten your booster?

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

America is made up of a broad spectrum of ideas, needs, and beliefs - founded upon democratic ideals. A significant number of Americans voting for Trump that gave him a majority this time were not cult followers who bought into his confidence schemes, but were voters who felt the alternative was likely worse. They didn't vote for a president who would rule by presidential fiat, ignore or work around established checks and balances, and who would set about laying the ground work for an autocracy, much like Putin or Orban did in their respective countries.

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

America is made up of a broad spectrum of ideas, needs, and beliefs - founded upon democratic ideals. A significant number of Americans voting for Trump that gave him a majority this time were not cult followers who bought into his confidence schemes, but were voters who felt the alternative was likely worse. They didn't vote for a president who would rule by presidential fiat, ignore or work around established checks and balances, and who would set about laying the ground work for an autocracy, much like Putin or Orban did in their respective countries.

---

Exactly. That's why last November the rac/pist King was taken care of and democracy was restored. America saw the Hitler-esque figure before the sacred Independence Hall insanely claiming everyone that disagree with him was an enemy of the state and should be silenced or imprisoned. They got sick of the FBI being weaponized against school parents, journalists, Churches, and anyone else that disagreed with the regime. America sensed a dictatorial King and voted it out.

---

Wangchung said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

America is made up of a broad spectrum of ideas, needs, and beliefs - founded upon democratic ideals. A significant number of Americans voting for Trump that gave him a majority this time were not cult followers who bought into his confidence schemes, but were voters who felt the alternative was likely worse. They didn't vote for a president who would rule by presidential fiat, ignore or work around established checks and balances, and who would set about laying the ground work for an autocracy, much like Putin or Orban did in their respective countries.

---

They voted for Trump to stop the democrats ideas and implement the ones he ran on. You leftists will make excuses every time in order to justify your fantasies. "Sure, Trump is doing what he campaigned on but trust me, lots of people who voted for Trump are now regretting that decision due to the fact Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do. Seriously, trust me."

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

America is made up of a broad spectrum of ideas, needs, and beliefs - founded upon democratic ideals. A significant number of Americans voting for Trump that gave him a majority this time were not cult followers who bought into his confidence schemes, but were voters who felt the alternative was likely worse. They didn't vote for a president who would rule by presidential fiat, ignore or work around established checks and balances, and who would set about laying the ground work for an autocracy, much like Putin or Orban did in their respective countries.

---

Why are we currently under a government shut down?

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

America is made up of a broad spectrum of ideas, needs, and beliefs - founded upon democratic ideals. A significant number of Americans voting for Trump that gave him a majority this time were not cult followers who bought into his confidence schemes, but were voters who felt the alternative was likely worse. They didn't vote for a president who would rule by presidential fiat, ignore or work around established checks and balances, and who would set about laying the ground work for an autocracy, much like Putin or Orban did in their respective countries.

---

Exactly. That's why last November the rac/pist King was taken care of and democracy was restored. America saw the Hitler-esque figure before the sacred Independence Hall insanely claiming everyone that disagree with him was an enemy of the state and should be silenced or imprisoned. They got sick of the FBI being weaponized against school parents, journalists, Churches, and anyone else that disagreed with the regime. America sensed a dictatorial King and voted it out.

---

Biden's government may have been "weaponized" against school parents, journalists, and churches, but he didn't turn actual weapons against them. Imagine being naive enough to want to give future presidents that power.

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

America is made up of a broad spectrum of ideas, needs, and beliefs - founded upon democratic ideals. A significant number of Americans voting for Trump that gave him a majority this time were not cult followers who bought into his confidence schemes, but were voters who felt the alternative was likely worse. They didn't vote for a president who would rule by presidential fiat, ignore or work around established checks and balances, and who would set about laying the ground work for an autocracy, much like Putin or Orban did in their respective countries.

---

Why are we currently under a government shut down?

---

Senate unwillingness to compromise, presidential deference, and/or unwillingness of the Senate to eliminate the cloture rule, or override the presiding officer with a majority vote.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Covid definitely broke a few people on the right. I'm afraid some of y'all got debunked one too many times and never recovered.

---

I can certainly understand the suspension of Constitutional rights, as advocated by some such as yourself, as a legitimate concern that could have caused some consternation among actual conservatives. You got scared and went all in on govt. tyranny, which is what of course makes your current concerns about this administration so comedic.

You are a walking dichotomy.

---

Meaningless words. What you call a suspension of rights was based on long-settled law. You couldn't specify a right that was actually violated if someone held a flu shot to your arm.

There were a few acts of discrimination, which I was against and the courts rightly struck down. Otherwise, these "tyrannical" restrictions were almost universally upheld by judges of all stripes.

---

I understand why such words would be meaningless to a spineless coward so willing to cast aside our rights because of his fear of COVID, but they're not meaningless to most Americans who value our Bill of Rights.

As for rights that were actually violated, well, let's begin with the First Amendment, which was repeatedly violated by states throughout the union. Contrary to your false assertions, several of those restrictions were indeed struck down. There was the Nov. 25, 2020 Supreme Court ruling wherein the Court prevented the application of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's executive order that limited the number of individuals who could gather in places of worship. There was the Feb. 5, 2021 order, wherein the Court granted a major portion of injunctive relief requested in the California case in South Bay United Pentecostal Church v. Newsom. The court prohibited the state from enforcing its prohibition against indoor worship services. And there was the April 9, 2021 order wherein the Court again weighed in on California's gathering restrictions, granting an injunction in Tandon v. Newsom against a state pandemic-related regulation that had the effect of restricting at-home Bible studies and prayer meetings by limiting all gatherings in private homes to no more than three households at a time. And then of course, while not a First Amended issue, there was NFIB v. Department of Labor, wherein the Court struck down the ridiculous OSHA mandate. And of course, these are just the Supreme Court rulings. There were a number of lower court rulings that were similar.

All of that debunking aside, I didn't actually say the Courts didn't rule in favor of some of the suspension of rights. They did indeed, but that doesn't mean such rights were not suspended. And of course, there wasn't a one of them you didn't support. I recall you saying you would have forced businesses to shut down even longer. But I can understand why you are now attempting to deflect.

---

That's a longer and more dramatic way of saying what I just said. The Covid deniers won a few discrimination cases and lost most of the rest.

The pandemic was a unique situation which didn't lend itself to neat, ideological answers. There's no conservative principle that says how long or short a lockdown should be. It's a judgment call. But the principle that cities and states have the right to take emergency action is undeniable.

Bottom line, Biden wasn't disappearing people without due process or deploying troops in American cities. If the only way to justify such policies is to harp on about masks and social distancing, it shows you have a pretty poor defense.

---

Nobody said or suggested cities didn't have a right to suspend certain fundamental rights. Again, try to read closer. What I said is that rights were suspended, and you were on board with same. In fact, for you, they weren't onerous enough.

So you can point to the legal victories all you want, but that is completely irrelevant to my point.

As for whether Trump deporting illegals and deploying national guard to cities is unconstitutional, I'll wait to see what the Supreme Court says on those things before declaring them unconstitutional. But it is correct that I generally don't have a problem with enforcing our immigration laws, nor with stepping in to protect the citizenry in lawless cities.

---

Then what is your point?

---

Re-read the last post on page 4 of this thread, where we began discussing why actual conservatives were "broken," as you called them, regarding Covid. No need to repeat it.

That reminds me: gotten your booster?

---

Sooo…lockdowns are government tyranny, but cities have the right to impose them?

If there's a dichotomy, it would seem to be that.

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

The are a lot of people protesting in the "No Kings" Rallies. This might negate the argument that Trump has a mandate from the american people to do all the things he is doing.

Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-no-kings-protesters-at-massive-nyc-rally-reveal-motivation-for-taking-to-the-streets-disgusting

NBC:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/no-kings-protests-trump-administration-live-updates-rcna238009

The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/oct/18/anti-trump-no-kings-protests-updates

and many more. Perhaps Trump needs to listen to all americans, not just MAGA people.

---

Once again the left rallies around that which makes them unpalatable to the majority of Americans. Illegal immigrants, LGBTQ, abortion, and how they "feel". Of all the things to go at Trump on, here they are wallowing in their same stool. It is them that continue not to listen.

---

First, your factual premise is incorrect.

The majority of Americans support legal abortion.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/

A majority of Americans believe that the the manner in whihc the administration is conducting its immigration policy is unfair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/08/us/trump-deportation-illegal-immigrants-voters-poll.html

A majority of Americans believe in at least the "L" rights and the "G" rights. A significant minority believes in the "T" rights.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

Second, your argument misses the point of the rallies. The "No Kings" argument is about the use of the imperial presidency to effect legal, cultural, and economic change-the most dangerous of which is targeting people for their beliefs. The idea that being a "leftist" disqualifes one from being a professor, teacher, or government employee should be terrifying, but it is now celebrated.

When American citizens are detained because they look illegal; when the Department of Jusitce openly makes political retribution a priority through BS cases; when we elevate someone above the law through an immunity doctrine made out of whole cloth; when we convert our publicly funded education system to a religious training ground; when we use the military against our own people; when we use the military to blow small boats out of the water with no war-time declaration and without making any of the evidence supporting the decision public; when we use the federal budget as a bludgeon against those who we disagree with; when the president's family and friends treat the White House as the largest cash machine of all time; when we disregard facts abiut science and elections to please the whims of one man, we see a monarchy.

Third, some of that is admittedly hypocritical. Trump is the culmination of the imperial presidency, not the instigator. But he fully reveals its evils and people are right to speak out about it.

---

This is what I mean by wallowing in your own stool. The left's key political litmus tests have become how far the boundaries of abortion, homosexuality, and transsexualism can be pushed both culturally and through policy. Yet none of these are illegal as individual rights. So the opinion polling is a meaningless data point. Throw in the championing of illegal immigration and that's where you are as a core platform message.

You've lost all perspective. The cultural and policy pendulum already swung so far your way that to call the current moment a "religious training ground" is delusional. You're just angry that people are finally questioning the necessity of your extreme positions.

Then you bring up "political retribution," "targeting people for their beliefs," "BS cases," and "questionable immunity approaches"? Are you really going there after the past couple of decades of weaponized institutions, cancel mobs, and selective justice? The reality is you don't oppose kings, you just want your king back in power. You lost that, and now you're being confronted with the ideological contradictions of your own position. Welcome to "it's no fun since the rabbit's got the gun".

The irony is that I've long opposed the consolidation of executive authority, including much of what Trump has done and continues to do with it, even when I've agreed with his objectives. I've called it out so often that I've been accused of having "TDS," of hating Trump, or even being a "globalist liberal" lol. The truth is, I never thought I'd find myself arguing with "conservatives" over principles that once defined our side like limiting government power and defending individual and economic freedom. The principles that separated us from the left's long-standing habit of using government power to impose ideology on a free society through fear and division.

To see the left suddenly feign fear of authority simply because the machinery of societal autocracy is no longer working exclusively in their favor is the definition of hypocrisy. But go ahead, keep wallowing in the same agendas that make you look as unhinged as you think the hardcore MAGAs are.

---

America is made up of a broad spectrum of ideas, needs, and beliefs - founded upon democratic ideals. A significant number of Americans voting for Trump that gave him a majority this time were not cult followers who bought into his confidence schemes, but were voters who felt the alternative was likely worse. They didn't vote for a president who would rule by presidential fiat, ignore or work around established checks and balances, and who would set about laying the ground work for an autocracy, much like Putin or Orban did in their respective countries.

---

Exactly. That's why last November the rac/pist King was taken care of and democracy was restored. America saw the Hitler-esque figure before the sacred Independence Hall insanely claiming everyone that disagree with him was an enemy of the state and should be silenced or imprisoned. They got sick of the FBI being weaponized against school parents, journalists, Churches, and anyone else that disagreed with the regime. America sensed a dictatorial King and voted it out.

---