TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I haven't 'missed' something. I have simply chosen to base my worldview on what can be verified by everyone, rather than what is felt by a few. Faith is belief without evidence and relies on dogma. Science is a process of learning, correcting, and tests for falsification. From that process science makes reliable predicitions and draws reliable conclusions about reality.

Science works whether you believe in it or not, whereas faith requires a committment without evidence. Religion is a set of fixed beliefs held regardless of evidence, while science is a tool used to discard beliefs that fail to match reality. Science is the only method we have that is self-correcting. If a scientific 'god' is proven wrong today, we update the textbooks tomorrow. The same can't be said for faith.

---

so you believe that we all just lucked into life? Thats depressing.. we are just here for no reason at all until we die, pure luck and are entirely of no consequence or need to exist.

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I haven't 'missed' something. I have simply chosen to base my worldview on what can be verified by everyone, rather than what is felt by a few. Faith is belief without evidence and relies on dogma. Science is a process of learning, correcting, and tests for falsification. From that process science makes reliable predicitions and draws reliable conclusions about reality.

Science works whether you believe in it or not, whereas faith requires a committment without evidence. Religion is a set of fixed beliefs held regardless of evidence, while science is a tool used to discard beliefs that fail to match reality. Science is the only method we have that is self-correcting. If a scientific 'god' is proven wrong today, we update the textbooks tomorrow. The same can't be said for faith.

---

so you believe that we all just lucked into life? Thats depressing.. we are just here for no reason at all until we die, pure luck and are entirely of no consequence or need to exist.

---

and when the sun burns out nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, any human has ever done will matter.

The serial rapist is equal to the heart surgeon. Grandma is equal to the mullah beating a wife. Even our decomposition won't matter.

Whether we were here or not has no bearing on the future. It changes nothing.

Have a great day

or don't. It doesn't matter.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I get that people have found value faith. It's comfort that comes from cultural and self delusion.

Science is not faith. Science is a tool and method to understanding reality. Faith is blind. Which one is flawed?

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I haven't 'missed' something. I have simply chosen to base my worldview on what can be verified by everyone, rather than what is felt by a few. Faith is belief without evidence and relies on dogma. Science is a process of learning, correcting, and tests for falsification. From that process science makes reliable predicitions and draws reliable conclusions about reality.

Science works whether you believe in it or not, whereas faith requires a committment without evidence. Religion is a set of fixed beliefs held regardless of evidence, while science is a tool used to discard beliefs that fail to match reality. Science is the only method we have that is self-correcting. If a scientific 'god' is proven wrong today, we update the textbooks tomorrow. The same can't be said for faith.

---

so you believe that we all just lucked into life? Thats depressing.. we are just here for no reason at all until we die, pure luck and are entirely of no consequence or need to exist.

---

It's not depressing. There is meaning in understanding and appreciating the magnificance of our universe, and in our interaction with others, and to exist with cognitive ability.

TexasScientist said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I haven't 'missed' something. I have simply chosen to base my worldview on what can be verified by everyone, rather than what is felt by a few. Faith is belief without evidence and relies on dogma. Science is a process of learning, correcting, and tests for falsification. From that process science makes reliable predicitions and draws reliable conclusions about reality.

Science works whether you believe in it or not, whereas faith requires a committment without evidence. Religion is a set of fixed beliefs held regardless of evidence, while science is a tool used to discard beliefs that fail to match reality. Science is the only method we have that is self-correcting. If a scientific 'god' is proven wrong today, we update the textbooks tomorrow. The same can't be said for faith.

---

so you believe that we all just lucked into life? Thats depressing.. we are just here for no reason at all until we die, pure luck and are entirely of no consequence or need to exist.

---

It's not depressing. There is meaning in understanding and appreciating the magnificance of our universe, and in our interaction with others, and to exist with cognitive ability.

---

The universe isn't ours unless we created it.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I get that people have found value faith. It's comfort that comes from cultural and self delusion.

Science is not faith. Science is a tool and method to understanding reality. Faith is blind. Which one is flawed?

---

Flawed is imagining a human invention is perfect. You admitted Science has had to correct itself over and over. Yet there remain people who treat Science as infallible, like yourself.

Faith is about greater things than empirical limits.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I get that people have found value faith. It's comfort that comes from cultural and self delusion.

Science is not faith. Science is a tool and method to understanding reality. Faith is blind. Which one is flawed?

---

Each one is a fool's errand. When the sun burns out, neither one will matter according to your world view.

Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die.

Is it the fool that chooses not to live by his world view?

I don't see why the two have to be an either/or. Science is how we explain the Universe, faith is for what science can't explain. If there was proof, faith would not matter.

Many scientist are religious as well.

IMO, Either you believe or you don't. If you don't maybe you need to go on a TV Evangelist show, say you accept Jesus as your savior (you don't even have to try and change, after all we are all sinners), write a check and you will be saved. OR talk to Tarp on this site he know what God wants and will not be shy about telling you and lasso you in...

canoso said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I haven't 'missed' something. I have simply chosen to base my worldview on what can be verified by everyone, rather than what is felt by a few. Faith is belief without evidence and relies on dogma. Science is a process of learning, correcting, and tests for falsification. From that process science makes reliable predicitions and draws reliable conclusions about reality.

Science works whether you believe in it or not, whereas faith requires a committment without evidence. Religion is a set of fixed beliefs held regardless of evidence, while science is a tool used to discard beliefs that fail to match reality. Science is the only method we have that is self-correcting. If a scientific 'god' is proven wrong today, we update the textbooks tomorrow. The same can't be said for faith.

---

so you believe that we all just lucked into life? Thats depressing.. we are just here for no reason at all until we die, pure luck and are entirely of no consequence or need to exist.

---

It's not depressing. There is meaning in understanding and appreciating the magnificance of our universe, and in our interaction with others, and to exist with cognitive ability.

---

The universe isn't ours unless we created it.

---

Do you live in your house? You need to study the nuances of the English language. We live on our planet. We live in our galaxy.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I get that people have found value faith. It's comfort that comes from cultural and self delusion.

Science is not faith. Science is a tool and method to understanding reality. Faith is blind. Which one is flawed?

---

Flawed is imagining a human invention is perfect. You admitted Science has had to correct itself over and over. Yet there remain people who treat Science as infallible, like yourself.

Faith is about greater things than empirical limits.

---

Science allows for testing and questioning of objective truths. That is not a flaw. It is a tool to refine and arrive at what is objectively true e.g. Newtonian gravity theory, refined by Einstein. Faith doesn't allow for anything other than blind unquestioning belief. Science opens the door to further learning. Faith closes that door, and doesn't permit questioning or examining "greater things."

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I get that people have found value faith. It's comfort that comes from cultural and self delusion.

Science is not faith. Science is a tool and method to understanding reality. Faith is blind. Which one is flawed?

---

Each one is a fool's errand. When the sun burns out, neither one will matter according to your world view.

Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die.

Is it the fool that chooses not to live by his world view?

---

That is not my world view. That is what religious indoctrination schooled you to believe about my world view. Morality is not exclusive to religious doctrine. Everyone lives by their world view e.g. Islam. This planet will be long gone by the time the Sun burns out.

FLBear5630 said:

---

I don't see why the two have to be an either/or. Science is how we explain the Universe, faith is for what science can't explain. If there was proof, faith would not matter.

Many scientist are religious as well.

IMO, Either you believe or you don't. If you don't maybe you need to go on a TV Evangelist show, say you accept Jesus as your savior (you don't even have to try and change, after all we are all sinners), write a check and you will be saved. OR talk to Tarp on this site he know what God wants and will not be shy about telling you and lasso you in...

---

I agree with what you have said, except that faith is belief in a supernatural/mythical explanation that resides in the ever shrinking domain of what science has yet to explain.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I get that people have found value faith. It's comfort that comes from cultural and self delusion.

Science is not faith. Science is a tool and method to understanding reality. Faith is blind. Which one is flawed?

---

Flawed is imagining a human invention is perfect. You admitted Science has had to correct itself over and over. Yet there remain people who treat Science as infallible, like yourself.

Faith is about greater things than empirical limits.

---

Science allows for testing and questioning of objective truths. That is not a flaw. It is a tool to refine and arrive at what is objectively true e.g. Newtonian gravity theory, refined by Einstein. Faith doesn't allow for anything other than blind unquestioning belief. Science opens the door to further learning. Faith closes that door, and doesn't permit questioning or examining "greater things."

---

" Faith doesn't allow for anything other than blind unquestioning belief"

You're a scientist. You like evidence.

I present to you, your own words as evidence that either you've not read or, fail to understand much of what is written in Psalms, anything regarding Doubting Thomas, Peter, Gideon and probably several more that don't immediately come to mind.

You're about as appreciative of the truth as swine are of pearls.

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I get that people have found value faith. It's comfort that comes from cultural and self delusion.

Science is not faith. Science is a tool and method to understanding reality. Faith is blind. Which one is flawed?

---

Each one is a fool's errand. When the sun burns out, neither one will matter according to your world view.

Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die.

Is it the fool that chooses not to live by his world view?

---

That is not my world view. That is what religious indoctrination schooled you to believe about my world view. Morality is not exclusive to religious doctrine. Everyone lives by their world view e.g. Islam. This planet will be long gone by the time the Sun burns out.

---

I never said morality is exclusive to religious doctrine. Not even close.

We all have a sense of morality and a conscience.

Your world view states that we are the consequence of time, matter and energy. Neither time, nor matter, nor energy is right or wrong. It just is.

A world view without God says, if I choose to open my hand to help someone it will have the same bearing on the universe as if I close that hand into a fist a punch that same person. When the sun burns out and we all cease to exist, it won't matter if I hit the person or helped the person.

It won't matter that Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao are responsible for so many deaths. We're all just matter and energy dancing to our music. We don't love but have chemical reactions.

We can all fizz and bounce as we please. Right and wrong is a construct. Neither has any bearing on the final outcome. This is the godless worldview.

Christians try to live by their worldview. Why don't you and others like you try to live by your worldview?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I get that people have found value faith. It's comfort that comes from cultural and self delusion.

Science is not faith. Science is a tool and method to understanding reality. Faith is blind. Which one is flawed?

---

Flawed is imagining a human invention is perfect. You admitted Science has had to correct itself over and over. Yet there remain people who treat Science as infallible, like yourself.

Faith is about greater things than empirical limits.

---

Science allows for testing and questioning of objective truths. That is not a flaw. It is a tool to refine and arrive at what is objectively true e.g. Newtonian gravity theory, refined by Einstein. Faith doesn't allow for anything other than blind unquestioning belief. Science opens the door to further learning. Faith closes that door, and doesn't permit questioning or examining "greater things."

---

" Faith doesn't allow for anything other than blind unquestioning belief"

You're a scientist. You like evidence.

I present to you, your own words as evidence that either you've not read or, fail to understand much of what is written in Psalms, anything regarding Doubting Thomas, Peter, Gideon and probably several more that don't immediately come to mind.

You're about as appreciative of the truth as swine are of pearls.

---

No, religious faith asks you to set aside those doubts and unquestioningly act upon faith. Those messages you refer to are critical of questioning, and are an admonition to accept a belief on faith alone.

TexasScientist said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

I don't see why the two have to be an either/or. Science is how we explain the Universe, faith is for what science can't explain. If there was proof, faith would not matter.

Many scientist are religious as well.

IMO, Either you believe or you don't. If you don't maybe you need to go on a TV Evangelist show, say you accept Jesus as your savior (you don't even have to try and change, after all we are all sinners), write a check and you will be saved. OR talk to Tarp on this site he know what God wants and will not be shy about telling you and lasso you in...

---

I agree with what you have said, except that faith is belief in a supernatural/mythical explanation that resides in the ever shrinking domain of what science has yet to explain.

---

"Ever shrinking" ? You mean how the more we learn about a single cell the more learn that we don't know?

One step forward, twenty steps back.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

I don't see why the two have to be an either/or. Science is how we explain the Universe, faith is for what science can't explain. If there was proof, faith would not matter.

Many scientist are religious as well.

IMO, Either you believe or you don't. If you don't maybe you need to go on a TV Evangelist show, say you accept Jesus as your savior (you don't even have to try and change, after all we are all sinners), write a check and you will be saved. OR talk to Tarp on this site he know what God wants and will not be shy about telling you and lasso you in...

---

I agree with what you have said, except that faith is belief in a supernatural/mythical explanation that resides in the ever shrinking domain of what science has yet to explain.

---

"Ever shrinking" ? You mean how the more we learn about a single cell the more learn that we don't know?

One step forward, twenty steps back.

---

It's one more step forward (not backward), one more step in knowledge of a cell, which moves it from the religious assigned domain of the supernatural. It is science finding new territory for exploring the unknown. Every step forward in knowledge reduces the domain where religion (primitive myths and supernatural beliefs) resides.

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

I don't see why the two have to be an either/or. Science is how we explain the Universe, faith is for what science can't explain. If there was proof, faith would not matter.

Many scientist are religious as well.

IMO, Either you believe or you don't. If you don't maybe you need to go on a TV Evangelist show, say you accept Jesus as your savior (you don't even have to try and change, after all we are all sinners), write a check and you will be saved. OR talk to Tarp on this site he know what God wants and will not be shy about telling you and lasso you in...

---

I agree with what you have said, except that faith is belief in a supernatural/mythical explanation that resides in the ever shrinking domain of what science has yet to explain.

---

"Ever shrinking" ? You mean how the more we learn about a single cell the more learn that we don't know?

One step forward, twenty steps back.

---

It's one more step forward (not backward), one more step in knowledge of a cell, which moves it from the religious assigned domain of the supernatural. It is science finding new territory for exploring the unknown. Every step forward in knowledge reduces the domain where religion (primitive myths and supernatural beliefs) resides.

---

Using your bible contradictions mantra, you say "ever shrinking" and "new territory" together.
You apply standards that you refuse to use yourself.

Hypocrite much?

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I haven't 'missed' something. I have simply chosen to base my worldview on what can be verified by everyone, rather than what is felt by a few. Faith is belief without evidence and relies on dogma. Science is a process of learning, correcting, and tests for falsification. From that process science makes reliable predicitions and draws reliable conclusions about reality.

Science works whether you believe in it or not, whereas faith requires a committment without evidence. Religion is a set of fixed beliefs held regardless of evidence, while science is a tool used to discard beliefs that fail to match reality. Science is the only method we have that is self-correcting. If a scientific 'god' is proven wrong today, we update the textbooks tomorrow. The same can't be said for faith.

---

so you believe that we all just lucked into life? Thats depressing.. we are just here for no reason at all until we die, pure luck and are entirely of no consequence or need to exist.


We are all the lucky sperm. What happens to all the unlucky sperm? Where do they go when they die?

---

BearBall said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

Anyone, including you, who has been a believer has been there or is there. I don't hide that I was as gullible as you.

---

And there it is again. You do not accept the value of faith, so you reject it. It escapes you that people who live in faith have fond something you missed.

I understand your mistake. You believe putting a man-made concept, Science, above everything else is objective and not its own decision of fealty. You ignore the inherent flaws because just as some choose to serve God, and others a different god, you have chosen your own god but imagine the definition is different because you want to say so.

---

I haven't 'missed' something. I have simply chosen to base my worldview on what can be verified by everyone, rather than what is felt by a few. Faith is belief without evidence and relies on dogma. Science is a process of learning, correcting, and tests for falsification. From that process science makes reliable predicitions and draws reliable conclusions about reality.

Science works whether you believe in it or not, whereas faith requires a committment without evidence. Religion is a set of fixed beliefs held regardless of evidence, while science is a tool used to discard beliefs that fail to match reality. Science is the only method we have that is self-correcting. If a scientific 'god' is proven wrong today, we update the textbooks tomorrow. The same can't be said for faith.

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so you believe that we all just lucked into life? Thats depressing.. we are just here for no reason at all until we die, pure luck and are entirely of no consequence or need to exist.


We are all the lucky sperm. What happens to all the unlucky sperm? Where do they go when they die?

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sperm are not alive in that sense just like skin cells are not alive in that sense or red blood cells are not alive in that sense..

I agree. At some point, theoretically, we will know everything that can be learned. The remaining is religion, faith that there is a creator and God as we know it.. In my opinion, I go into science knowing there will be a point that there is no direct evidence. We may be able to measure the output, but prove the how?

I believe God makes knowledge available to us as soon as we are able to understand it. Religion and science have to match and be consistent. That is why I am not a believer the Bible is a history book. It may tell of historical events, but the religious philosophy is more intended to deliver a message. Christ told us so much in his use of parables.


No judgements on how we use it, that is free will.



Pope to Vatican Observatory: Church embraces science to find God in Creation - Vatican News

Excellent group to read about science and religion. Science has been part of the Church since the beginning.
Vatican Observatory - Home

4th and Inches said:

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quash said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

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anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

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No True Scotsman fallacy

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John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

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Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

quash said:

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4th and Inches said:

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quash said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

---

No True Scotsman fallacy

---

John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

---

Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

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Like love and justice?

quash said:

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4th and Inches said:

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quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

---

No True Scotsman fallacy

---

John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

---

Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

---

There is no rule that says you have to believe in anything. One of the biggest errors in Christianity is that all are supposed to be in Christ, it never says that..

The Word is only for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear, not all

4th and Inches said:

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quash said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

---

No True Scotsman fallacy

---

John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

---

Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

---

There is no rule that says you have to believe in anything. One of the biggest errors in Christianity is that all are supposed to be in Christ, it never says that..

The Word is only for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear, not all

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Goats and sheep

Wheat and tares

Those with full lamps and those with empty lamps

It's for everyone.

Sam Lowry said:

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It's for everyone.

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No, it's only available to everyone.

Sam Lowry said:

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It's for everyone.

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we are to share the peace of Christ with all.. parable of the sower kicks in after that

Sprinkle in some Romans 9 as well

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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quash said:

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4th and Inches said:

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quash said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

---

No True Scotsman fallacy

---

John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

---

Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

---

Like love and justice?

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Nope

quash said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

---

No True Scotsman fallacy

---

John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

---

Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

---

Like love and justice?

---

Nope

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Quash doesn't believe in love or justice. Wow.

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

---

No True Scotsman fallacy

---

John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

---

Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

---

Like love and justice?

---

Nope

---

Quash doesn't believe in love or justice. Wow.

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For the attorney , I guess it's similar to Honest Abe's Used Cars not believing in honesty.

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

---

No True Scotsman fallacy

---

John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

---

Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

---

Like love and justice?

---

Nope

---

Quash doesn't believe in love or justice. Wow.

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As usual you are wrong.
I know both those things exist and they don't need my belief to go in existing
.

I find your willingness to deceive a poor witness

quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

quash said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: " self deception - I've already been there and done that."

Quoted to show you outed yourself, TS.

---

anybody who walks away was never in the spirit to begin with..

Nobody walks away from being in the spirit.

---

No True Scotsman fallacy

---

John 10:29 "My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch anything from my Father's hand."

It is clearly written for those that can hear and see

---

Hoo boy.

You can't snatch anything from a fake hand. You just can't.

I don't believe things that have to be believed in to be true

---

Like love and justice?

---

Nope

---

Quash doesn't believe in love or justice. Wow.

---

As usual you are wrong.
I know both those things exist and they don't need my belief to go in existing
.

I find your willingness to deceive a poor witness

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Your problem, quash, is that faith and God also do not require your support to exist, but you deny them.

Ergo, you are an hypocrite.

to the OP. why does it matter?