Just FYI, transgenderism has long been (and still is) termed a form of mental illness by pretty much every medical organization in the United States.Bona Fide Bear said:IASIP Rocks said:I guess I missed what I'm forcing them to do?Bona Fide Bear said:I said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again, you are forcing them to do something that is against their beliefs. Just because you think it is immoral, wrong or whatever, that is still their beliefs. The pronoun issue is tangential to the larger topic here. If you don't want to refer to a male to female transgender, who you would most likely think was a female anyways, that is just moronic. Whatever, that doesn't really matter. The bigger issue at hand is that you think they shouldn't live that life, which means you are imposing your beliefs on them. Don't you realize how hypocritical you are being?IASIP Rocks said:Bona Fide Bear said:IASIP Rocks said:Bona Fide Bear said:IASIP Rocks said:Bona Fide Bear said:
Why does it matter? How does it impact you if a person born with male genitalia thinks they are a woman? How does this impact your life that it makes them feel more comfortable to live as a woman? Let them he who they want to be. We have much bigger issues as a country to deal with.
It matters when people force us to agree with them. See the California law that criminalizes health care workers who don't refer to people by their preferred pronoun. That's just the beginning.
You do realize you are trying to force them to agree with you, right? You are getting upset about a pronoun, but you are asking them to completely change their lives from what they feel is comfortable. It might be a mental health issue, it may not be biological at all, but they don't feel comfortable living in the gender they were born with. And you want to force them to live a certain way so you don't have to be inconvenienced about a pronoun and so you don't have to think in the back of your mind that some people are living a life that you think is immoral. Like I said, we have much bigger issues to deal with than this. And if we are going to focus on bedroom issues, where does it stop? Are you going to force that couple in your church that really loves anal to stop? I guarantee you someone in your church enjoys that. What about adultery? Are you going to force the adulterers to stop? Are we going to make it our position to stop people from doing what they do, or are we going to let humans have free will and let God decide on judgement day?
No but no one in that is engaged in adultery is making me pretend that I think it's ok with state penalty if I don't. That is the end result of what the left is pushing for with the LGBT agenda. I (not they, but me) must accept and acquiesce, or the power of the government and it's enforcement mechanism will come down on me.
And how is me not choosing to refer to someone they way they think they should be referred to forcing them to do anything? I'm not ripping their dress off. I'm just not using their preferred pronoun. Again, if I am the one publicly shamed for not doing that (and perhaps have the power of the government brought down on me for the same) then preeeetty sure I would be the one being forced to do something.
This can become a circular argument really quick. If you are really upset because another human, who happens to be transgendered, would prefer to be called by a certain pronoun, then I don't know what to say. It's such an illogical and irrational thing to be upset about, especially when you consider all the real issues we should address as a country. But whatever, keep letting inconsequential issues like this occupy your time and mind, that's what the republicans and democrats really want anyways - for the populace to be distracted from the real issues.
I'm not upset about what anyone chooses to do with their life. But if someone forces me to do something against my beliefs, that's when I get upset.
They believe they were born in the wrong body. However you want to classify that, that is their belief. If you don't want to call a person that is living as a woman the female pronoun, then you are forcing your beliefs on them. If you (the collective you) take it further and say they have a mental illness and don't even try to understand what is going on in their heads or in their life, and you just say they shouldn't be, then you are forcing your beliefs on them. This really isn't that hard to understand.
Let people live however they want. It really has no impact on you. They just want to live life and not be judged for how they live their life, just like all of us.
The question for us as a society is how far we go in letting people's choices define them, when science and biology state otherwise? Is it forcing one's belief on a transgender man when we say you are unable to compete with women because your biology gives you a distinct and unfair advantage? Or should we ignore science and biology (not to mention the unfair advantage) for fear or causing hurt feelings or worse, ostracization or depression?
I don't think there is any black and white lines that can be drawn here.