BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Let's be real, the downfall began after the 19th amendment. Long before any of our generations lmao

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Wow

BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Let's be real, the downfall began after the 19th amendment. Long before any of our generations lmao

---

Ha!

Better not let wifey hear that. She may cut it off!

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

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That's a fig leaf. Look at what you're defending and tell me they have effective access to counsel. It's a calculated method of removing prominent businessmen, doctors, teachers, and other community leaders in order to force compliance with land grabs. In other words, taking hostages by the tens of thousands.

---

Don't add lying to your hyperbole efforts.

---

Are you sure it isn't true, or do you just not care?

https://www.google.com

---

Of course it's true. Because businessmen, doctors, teachers, and community leaders would never be part of Hamas or its network…

---

Sarcasm isn't evidence. Why not put them on trial and find out?

---

First you'd have to solve the problem of Geneva POW status, lack of statehood, and Israel's own unlawful combatant law.

---

The State of Palestine has been recognized as a party to the Geneva Conventions since at least 2014. POW status under the Third Convention is a red herring. It's the Fourth Convention relative to the protection of civilians that applies. It provides extensive rights for civilian detainees, including enemy combatants, subject to extremely narrow exceptions that should never be based on mere suspicion. Even in those cases the detainee has a right to meaningful review. There's simply no excuse under any of these laws to hold a prisoner indefinitely without notice of the evidence, the witnesses, or even the charges.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

historian said:

---

They've already been proven false repeatedly on almost every thread the topic has been mentioned. If you are genuinely interested it should be easy to find. In my mind it's patently obvious unless one does not believe the state of Israel has a right to exist or to defend itself. If you don't believe either then there isn't much hope for you.

---

I don't recall any such proof being offered. Let's start with some specific accusations from the UN Special Committee. Which of them are false, or alternatively, which of these practices are justified by Israel's right to exist?

Quote:

---

C. Detentions

The Special Committee has received disturbing briefings on the systematic and widespread perpetration of sexual and gender-based violence, torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment inflicted on Palestinian detainees by Israeli military and security forces, as also reported by the Commission of Inquiry. Thousands of individuals were reportedly held in Israeli prisons and military camps, some under the "Incarceration of Unlawful Combatants Law". Most were detained without due process, without access to family and in severely unhygienic conditions. Detainees faced daily physical and psychological abuse and torture, and many suffered from scabies and other skin infections due to the appalling environment. The torture and ill-treatment were such that special procedure mandate holders denounced them as a crime against humanity, warning that the high-profile case of the gang-rape of a detainee in the Israel Defense Forces detention facility of Sde Teiman represented the tip of the iceberg. The Special Committee also received information about the use of rape and gang-rape, including anal rape with objects, targeting both male and female detainees, amid a near-total absence of prison or military investigations and complete lack of accountability. Numerous Palestinian detainees released during the ceasefire in early 2025 required urgent medical treatment, and some bore signs of acute malnutrition and other forms of torture.

Israel has arrested, arbitrarily detained or held incommunicado tens of thousands of Palestinians since 7 October 2023, raising concerns of enforced disappearance. Verifying figures is difficult given the lack of information shared by the authorities, the denial of access to lawyers and relatives, and the fact that Israel continues to deny visits to places of detention by the International Committee of the Red Cross. On 18 July 2025, special procedure mandate holders warned that about 4,000 Palestinians, including children and older persons, and 51 Israelis were still missing since 7 October 2023. They called upon the authorities in both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory to clarify the fate and whereabouts of all victims of enforced disappearance, no matter the circumstances, whether in detention or deceased. The Special Committee echoes that call.

On 14 July 2025, the non-governmental organization Palestinian Prisoners Society reported that, since 7 October 2023, over 18,000 Palestinians, including 1,450 children and 560 women, had been arrested by Israeli security forces in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, in addition to an unidentified number of detained Palestinians from Gaza. Over the same period, 73 identified Palestinian detainees had died in custody. That number amounted to almost a quarter of the 310 identified Palestinians who had died in Israeli custody since 1967 and had been recorded by the Palestinian Prisoners Society. For the first time since 1967, a juvenile Palestinian detainee, aged 17 years old, died in custody in April 2025, as a result of malnutrition and denial of medical care. In a report, the Commission of Inquiry concluded that the systematic abuse of Palestinian detainees was directly and causally linked to statements made by Israeli officials, including the Minister of National Security, who was responsible for the Israel Prison Service, and other members of the coalition Government, legitimizing revenge and violence against Palestinians.

According to the Jerusalem Legal Aid and Human Rights Center, as at 30 July 2025, Israel retained the bodies of 460 Palestinians (of whom 6 were women and 46 were children), including for use as leverage in negotiations an Israeli practice long predating October 2023. In August 2024, Israeli forces sent the remains of over 80 unidentified Palestinians to a crossing point into Gaza; it was not clear whether the remains were those of bodies dug up from cemeteries in Gaza or of detainees who had died in detention.

For the second year in a row, Israel was included in the annual report of the Secretary-General on children and armed conflict. The highest number of grave violations against children in the world in 2024 was verified in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (8,554), in addition to the verification of another 2,788 grave violations that occurred in 2023 in the Gaza Strip. The overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers. Among those violations, including killings, maiming, the destruction of schools, the use of children as human shields and the denial of humanitarian access, the United Nations also verified the detention in 2024, for alleged security offences, of 951 Palestinian children (940 boys, 11 girls) in the West Bank (602), in East Jerusalem (259) and the Gaza Strip (90), including the detention of a Palestinian girl whose whereabouts remained unknown. Over 110 Palestinian children were being held in administrative detention, without charge or trial as at 31 December 2024, and, in addition, 25 children had been transferred to Israel from the Gaza Strip and detained under the "unlawful combatant" designation. The Special Committee is particularly concerned by the targeting of children and their treatment in detention, and urges the Government of Israel to immediately release all children held in administrative and other arbitrary detention and cease the ill-treatment and torture of detainees. Moreover, the Special Committee echoes the concluding observations of the Committee on the Rights of the Child on the combined fifth and sixth reports of Israel and the recommendations contained therein.

---

---

You realize the report is including violations by Palestinian groups too (human shields for example).

---

As stated in the report, "the overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers."

That includes the use of human shields. Contrary to popular belief, unfortunately, the practice is not unique to terrorist groups.

Quote:

---

A United Nations committee focused on youth rights accused Israel Thursday of failing to stop the mistreatment of Palestinian children in military and police custody.

The group's report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields, and alleges that detained children in some cases face torture, solitary confinement and threats of sexual assault.

One of the more explosive allegations in the report is the "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants," of which the report says 14 cases have been reported in the last 3 years.

"[Israel's] soldiers have used Palestinian children to enter potentially dangerous buildings ahead of them and to stand in front of military vehicles in order to stop the throwing of stones against those vehicles," the committee writes in the report, citing the U.N.'s Special Rapporteur on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights and Fundemental Freedoms while Countering Terrorism.

According to the report, such activity has largely gone unpunished.

"The soldiers convicted for having forced at gunpoint a nine-year old child to search bags suspected of containing explosives only received a suspended sentence of three months and were demoted."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

historian said:

---

They've already been proven false repeatedly on almost every thread the topic has been mentioned. If you are genuinely interested it should be easy to find. In my mind it's patently obvious unless one does not believe the state of Israel has a right to exist or to defend itself. If you don't believe either then there isn't much hope for you.

---

I don't recall any such proof being offered. Let's start with some specific accusations from the UN Special Committee. Which of them are false, or alternatively, which of these practices are justified by Israel's right to exist?

Quote:

---

C. Detentions

The Special Committee has received disturbing briefings on the systematic and widespread perpetration of sexual and gender-based violence, torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment inflicted on Palestinian detainees by Israeli military and security forces, as also reported by the Commission of Inquiry. Thousands of individuals were reportedly held in Israeli prisons and military camps, some under the "Incarceration of Unlawful Combatants Law". Most were detained without due process, without access to family and in severely unhygienic conditions. Detainees faced daily physical and psychological abuse and torture, and many suffered from scabies and other skin infections due to the appalling environment. The torture and ill-treatment were such that special procedure mandate holders denounced them as a crime against humanity, warning that the high-profile case of the gang-rape of a detainee in the Israel Defense Forces detention facility of Sde Teiman represented the tip of the iceberg. The Special Committee also received information about the use of rape and gang-rape, including anal rape with objects, targeting both male and female detainees, amid a near-total absence of prison or military investigations and complete lack of accountability. Numerous Palestinian detainees released during the ceasefire in early 2025 required urgent medical treatment, and some bore signs of acute malnutrition and other forms of torture.

Israel has arrested, arbitrarily detained or held incommunicado tens of thousands of Palestinians since 7 October 2023, raising concerns of enforced disappearance. Verifying figures is difficult given the lack of information shared by the authorities, the denial of access to lawyers and relatives, and the fact that Israel continues to deny visits to places of detention by the International Committee of the Red Cross. On 18 July 2025, special procedure mandate holders warned that about 4,000 Palestinians, including children and older persons, and 51 Israelis were still missing since 7 October 2023. They called upon the authorities in both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory to clarify the fate and whereabouts of all victims of enforced disappearance, no matter the circumstances, whether in detention or deceased. The Special Committee echoes that call.

On 14 July 2025, the non-governmental organization Palestinian Prisoners Society reported that, since 7 October 2023, over 18,000 Palestinians, including 1,450 children and 560 women, had been arrested by Israeli security forces in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, in addition to an unidentified number of detained Palestinians from Gaza. Over the same period, 73 identified Palestinian detainees had died in custody. That number amounted to almost a quarter of the 310 identified Palestinians who had died in Israeli custody since 1967 and had been recorded by the Palestinian Prisoners Society. For the first time since 1967, a juvenile Palestinian detainee, aged 17 years old, died in custody in April 2025, as a result of malnutrition and denial of medical care. In a report, the Commission of Inquiry concluded that the systematic abuse of Palestinian detainees was directly and causally linked to statements made by Israeli officials, including the Minister of National Security, who was responsible for the Israel Prison Service, and other members of the coalition Government, legitimizing revenge and violence against Palestinians.

According to the Jerusalem Legal Aid and Human Rights Center, as at 30 July 2025, Israel retained the bodies of 460 Palestinians (of whom 6 were women and 46 were children), including for use as leverage in negotiations an Israeli practice long predating October 2023. In August 2024, Israeli forces sent the remains of over 80 unidentified Palestinians to a crossing point into Gaza; it was not clear whether the remains were those of bodies dug up from cemeteries in Gaza or of detainees who had died in detention.

For the second year in a row, Israel was included in the annual report of the Secretary-General on children and armed conflict. The highest number of grave violations against children in the world in 2024 was verified in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (8,554), in addition to the verification of another 2,788 grave violations that occurred in 2023 in the Gaza Strip. The overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers. Among those violations, including killings, maiming, the destruction of schools, the use of children as human shields and the denial of humanitarian access, the United Nations also verified the detention in 2024, for alleged security offences, of 951 Palestinian children (940 boys, 11 girls) in the West Bank (602), in East Jerusalem (259) and the Gaza Strip (90), including the detention of a Palestinian girl whose whereabouts remained unknown. Over 110 Palestinian children were being held in administrative detention, without charge or trial as at 31 December 2024, and, in addition, 25 children had been transferred to Israel from the Gaza Strip and detained under the "unlawful combatant" designation. The Special Committee is particularly concerned by the targeting of children and their treatment in detention, and urges the Government of Israel to immediately release all children held in administrative and other arbitrary detention and cease the ill-treatment and torture of detainees. Moreover, the Special Committee echoes the concluding observations of the Committee on the Rights of the Child on the combined fifth and sixth reports of Israel and the recommendations contained therein.

---

---

You realize the report is including violations by Palestinian groups too (human shields for example).

---

As stated in the report, "the overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers."

That includes the use of human shields. Contrary to popular belief, unfortunately, the practice is not unique to terrorist groups.

Quote:

---

A United Nations committee focused on youth rights accused Israel Thursday of failing to stop the mistreatment of Palestinian children in military and police custody.

The group's report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields, and alleges that detained children in some cases face torture, solitary confinement and threats of sexual assault.

One of the more explosive allegations in the report is the "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants," of which the report says 14 cases have been reported in the last 3 years.

"[Israel's] soldiers have used Palestinian children to enter potentially dangerous buildings ahead of them and to stand in front of military vehicles in order to stop the throwing of stones against those vehicles," the committee writes in the report, citing the U.N.'s Special Rapporteur on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights and Fundemental Freedoms while Countering Terrorism.

According to the report, such activity has largely gone unpunished.

"The soldiers convicted for having forced at gunpoint a nine-year old child to search bags suspected of containing explosives only received a suspended sentence of three months and were demoted."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/

---

---

Do you even understand what is happening in this conflict and how this is reported/accused? Using Israeli requirements of reporting and embedding of UN legal advisors and requirements of state actors vs non states like Hamas that barely have a guy taking notes and zero organizational structure or accountability. But it makes for great political fodder.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

That's a fig leaf. Look at what you're defending and tell me they have effective access to counsel. It's a calculated method of removing prominent businessmen, doctors, teachers, and other community leaders in order to force compliance with land grabs. In other words, taking hostages by the tens of thousands.

---

Don't add lying to your hyperbole efforts.

---

Are you sure it isn't true, or do you just not care?

https://www.google.com

---

Of course it's true. Because businessmen, doctors, teachers, and community leaders would never be part of Hamas or its network…

---

Sarcasm isn't evidence. Why not put them on trial and find out?

---

First you'd have to solve the problem of Geneva POW status, lack of statehood, and Israel's own unlawful combatant law.

---

The State of Palestine has been recognized as a party to the Geneva Conventions since at least 2014. POW status under the Third Convention is a red herring. It's the Fourth Convention relative to the protection of civilians that applies. It provides extensive rights for civilian detainees, including enemy combatants, subject to extremely narrow exceptions that should never be based on mere suspicion. Even in those cases the detainee has a right to meaningful review. There's simply no excuse under any of these laws to hold a prisoner indefinitely without notice of the evidence, the witnesses, or even the charges.

---

Aside from the U.S. and Israel both not recognizing "the Palestinian State", the tangential stretch of their signature was by Abbas of the PLO and not even recognized as authority by Hamas the de facto government and party in this conflict.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

historian said:

---

They've already been proven false repeatedly on almost every thread the topic has been mentioned. If you are genuinely interested it should be easy to find. In my mind it's patently obvious unless one does not believe the state of Israel has a right to exist or to defend itself. If you don't believe either then there isn't much hope for you.

---

I don't recall any such proof being offered. Let's start with some specific accusations from the UN Special Committee. Which of them are false, or alternatively, which of these practices are justified by Israel's right to exist?

Quote:

---

C. Detentions

The Special Committee has received disturbing briefings on the systematic and widespread perpetration of sexual and gender-based violence, torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment inflicted on Palestinian detainees by Israeli military and security forces, as also reported by the Commission of Inquiry. Thousands of individuals were reportedly held in Israeli prisons and military camps, some under the "Incarceration of Unlawful Combatants Law". Most were detained without due process, without access to family and in severely unhygienic conditions. Detainees faced daily physical and psychological abuse and torture, and many suffered from scabies and other skin infections due to the appalling environment. The torture and ill-treatment were such that special procedure mandate holders denounced them as a crime against humanity, warning that the high-profile case of the gang-rape of a detainee in the Israel Defense Forces detention facility of Sde Teiman represented the tip of the iceberg. The Special Committee also received information about the use of rape and gang-rape, including anal rape with objects, targeting both male and female detainees, amid a near-total absence of prison or military investigations and complete lack of accountability. Numerous Palestinian detainees released during the ceasefire in early 2025 required urgent medical treatment, and some bore signs of acute malnutrition and other forms of torture.

Israel has arrested, arbitrarily detained or held incommunicado tens of thousands of Palestinians since 7 October 2023, raising concerns of enforced disappearance. Verifying figures is difficult given the lack of information shared by the authorities, the denial of access to lawyers and relatives, and the fact that Israel continues to deny visits to places of detention by the International Committee of the Red Cross. On 18 July 2025, special procedure mandate holders warned that about 4,000 Palestinians, including children and older persons, and 51 Israelis were still missing since 7 October 2023. They called upon the authorities in both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory to clarify the fate and whereabouts of all victims of enforced disappearance, no matter the circumstances, whether in detention or deceased. The Special Committee echoes that call.

On 14 July 2025, the non-governmental organization Palestinian Prisoners Society reported that, since 7 October 2023, over 18,000 Palestinians, including 1,450 children and 560 women, had been arrested by Israeli security forces in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, in addition to an unidentified number of detained Palestinians from Gaza. Over the same period, 73 identified Palestinian detainees had died in custody. That number amounted to almost a quarter of the 310 identified Palestinians who had died in Israeli custody since 1967 and had been recorded by the Palestinian Prisoners Society. For the first time since 1967, a juvenile Palestinian detainee, aged 17 years old, died in custody in April 2025, as a result of malnutrition and denial of medical care. In a report, the Commission of Inquiry concluded that the systematic abuse of Palestinian detainees was directly and causally linked to statements made by Israeli officials, including the Minister of National Security, who was responsible for the Israel Prison Service, and other members of the coalition Government, legitimizing revenge and violence against Palestinians.

According to the Jerusalem Legal Aid and Human Rights Center, as at 30 July 2025, Israel retained the bodies of 460 Palestinians (of whom 6 were women and 46 were children), including for use as leverage in negotiations an Israeli practice long predating October 2023. In August 2024, Israeli forces sent the remains of over 80 unidentified Palestinians to a crossing point into Gaza; it was not clear whether the remains were those of bodies dug up from cemeteries in Gaza or of detainees who had died in detention.

For the second year in a row, Israel was included in the annual report of the Secretary-General on children and armed conflict. The highest number of grave violations against children in the world in 2024 was verified in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (8,554), in addition to the verification of another 2,788 grave violations that occurred in 2023 in the Gaza Strip. The overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers. Among those violations, including killings, maiming, the destruction of schools, the use of children as human shields and the denial of humanitarian access, the United Nations also verified the detention in 2024, for alleged security offences, of 951 Palestinian children (940 boys, 11 girls) in the West Bank (602), in East Jerusalem (259) and the Gaza Strip (90), including the detention of a Palestinian girl whose whereabouts remained unknown. Over 110 Palestinian children were being held in administrative detention, without charge or trial as at 31 December 2024, and, in addition, 25 children had been transferred to Israel from the Gaza Strip and detained under the "unlawful combatant" designation. The Special Committee is particularly concerned by the targeting of children and their treatment in detention, and urges the Government of Israel to immediately release all children held in administrative and other arbitrary detention and cease the ill-treatment and torture of detainees. Moreover, the Special Committee echoes the concluding observations of the Committee on the Rights of the Child on the combined fifth and sixth reports of Israel and the recommendations contained therein.

---

---

You realize the report is including violations by Palestinian groups too (human shields for example).

---

As stated in the report, "the overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers."

That includes the use of human shields. Contrary to popular belief, unfortunately, the practice is not unique to terrorist groups.

Quote:

---

A United Nations committee focused on youth rights accused Israel Thursday of failing to stop the mistreatment of Palestinian children in military and police custody.

The group's report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields, and alleges that detained children in some cases face torture, solitary confinement and threats of sexual assault.

One of the more explosive allegations in the report is the "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants," of which the report says 14 cases have been reported in the last 3 years.

"[Israel's] soldiers have used Palestinian children to enter potentially dangerous buildings ahead of them and to stand in front of military vehicles in order to stop the throwing of stones against those vehicles," the committee writes in the report, citing the U.N.'s Special Rapporteur on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights and Fundemental Freedoms while Countering Terrorism.

According to the report, such activity has largely gone unpunished.

"The soldiers convicted for having forced at gunpoint a nine-year old child to search bags suspected of containing explosives only received a suspended sentence of three months and were demoted."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/

---

---

Do you even understand what is happening in this conflict and how this is reported/accused? Using Israeli requirements of reporting and embedding of UN legal advisors and requirements of state actors vs non states like Hamas that barely have a guy taking notes and zero organizational structure or accountability. But it makes for great political fodder.

---

Israel has killed hundreds of UN personnel (and hundreds more journalists) since 2023. There is no way they would tolerate UN observers embedded in their combat units. They have their own legal advisers, whose job is to manage risk and defend troops against prosecution. Anyone who has read independent reports knows how much good that does.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

That's a fig leaf. Look at what you're defending and tell me they have effective access to counsel. It's a calculated method of removing prominent businessmen, doctors, teachers, and other community leaders in order to force compliance with land grabs. In other words, taking hostages by the tens of thousands.

---

Don't add lying to your hyperbole efforts.

---

Are you sure it isn't true, or do you just not care?

https://www.google.com

---

Of course it's true. Because businessmen, doctors, teachers, and community leaders would never be part of Hamas or its network…

---

Sarcasm isn't evidence. Why not put them on trial and find out?

---

First you'd have to solve the problem of Geneva POW status, lack of statehood, and Israel's own unlawful combatant law.

---

The State of Palestine has been recognized as a party to the Geneva Conventions since at least 2014. POW status under the Third Convention is a red herring. It's the Fourth Convention relative to the protection of civilians that applies. It provides extensive rights for civilian detainees, including enemy combatants, subject to extremely narrow exceptions that should never be based on mere suspicion. Even in those cases the detainee has a right to meaningful review. There's simply no excuse under any of these laws to hold a prisoner indefinitely without notice of the evidence, the witnesses, or even the charges.

---

Aside from the U.S. and Israel both not recognizing "the Palestinian State", the tangential stretch of their signature was by Abbas of the PLO and not even recognized as authority by Hamas the de facto government and party in this conflict.

---

As a party to the GC, Israel is bound regardless. Even their own courts recognize this.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

historian said:

---

They've already been proven false repeatedly on almost every thread the topic has been mentioned. If you are genuinely interested it should be easy to find. In my mind it's patently obvious unless one does not believe the state of Israel has a right to exist or to defend itself. If you don't believe either then there isn't much hope for you.

---

I don't recall any such proof being offered. Let's start with some specific accusations from the UN Special Committee. Which of them are false, or alternatively, which of these practices are justified by Israel's right to exist?

Quote:

---

C. Detentions

The Special Committee has received disturbing briefings on the systematic and widespread perpetration of sexual and gender-based violence, torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment inflicted on Palestinian detainees by Israeli military and security forces, as also reported by the Commission of Inquiry. Thousands of individuals were reportedly held in Israeli prisons and military camps, some under the "Incarceration of Unlawful Combatants Law". Most were detained without due process, without access to family and in severely unhygienic conditions. Detainees faced daily physical and psychological abuse and torture, and many suffered from scabies and other skin infections due to the appalling environment. The torture and ill-treatment were such that special procedure mandate holders denounced them as a crime against humanity, warning that the high-profile case of the gang-rape of a detainee in the Israel Defense Forces detention facility of Sde Teiman represented the tip of the iceberg. The Special Committee also received information about the use of rape and gang-rape, including anal rape with objects, targeting both male and female detainees, amid a near-total absence of prison or military investigations and complete lack of accountability. Numerous Palestinian detainees released during the ceasefire in early 2025 required urgent medical treatment, and some bore signs of acute malnutrition and other forms of torture.

Israel has arrested, arbitrarily detained or held incommunicado tens of thousands of Palestinians since 7 October 2023, raising concerns of enforced disappearance. Verifying figures is difficult given the lack of information shared by the authorities, the denial of access to lawyers and relatives, and the fact that Israel continues to deny visits to places of detention by the International Committee of the Red Cross. On 18 July 2025, special procedure mandate holders warned that about 4,000 Palestinians, including children and older persons, and 51 Israelis were still missing since 7 October 2023. They called upon the authorities in both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory to clarify the fate and whereabouts of all victims of enforced disappearance, no matter the circumstances, whether in detention or deceased. The Special Committee echoes that call.

On 14 July 2025, the non-governmental organization Palestinian Prisoners Society reported that, since 7 October 2023, over 18,000 Palestinians, including 1,450 children and 560 women, had been arrested by Israeli security forces in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, in addition to an unidentified number of detained Palestinians from Gaza. Over the same period, 73 identified Palestinian detainees had died in custody. That number amounted to almost a quarter of the 310 identified Palestinians who had died in Israeli custody since 1967 and had been recorded by the Palestinian Prisoners Society. For the first time since 1967, a juvenile Palestinian detainee, aged 17 years old, died in custody in April 2025, as a result of malnutrition and denial of medical care. In a report, the Commission of Inquiry concluded that the systematic abuse of Palestinian detainees was directly and causally linked to statements made by Israeli officials, including the Minister of National Security, who was responsible for the Israel Prison Service, and other members of the coalition Government, legitimizing revenge and violence against Palestinians.

According to the Jerusalem Legal Aid and Human Rights Center, as at 30 July 2025, Israel retained the bodies of 460 Palestinians (of whom 6 were women and 46 were children), including for use as leverage in negotiations an Israeli practice long predating October 2023. In August 2024, Israeli forces sent the remains of over 80 unidentified Palestinians to a crossing point into Gaza; it was not clear whether the remains were those of bodies dug up from cemeteries in Gaza or of detainees who had died in detention.

For the second year in a row, Israel was included in the annual report of the Secretary-General on children and armed conflict. The highest number of grave violations against children in the world in 2024 was verified in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (8,554), in addition to the verification of another 2,788 grave violations that occurred in 2023 in the Gaza Strip. The overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers. Among those violations, including killings, maiming, the destruction of schools, the use of children as human shields and the denial of humanitarian access, the United Nations also verified the detention in 2024, for alleged security offences, of 951 Palestinian children (940 boys, 11 girls) in the West Bank (602), in East Jerusalem (259) and the Gaza Strip (90), including the detention of a Palestinian girl whose whereabouts remained unknown. Over 110 Palestinian children were being held in administrative detention, without charge or trial as at 31 December 2024, and, in addition, 25 children had been transferred to Israel from the Gaza Strip and detained under the "unlawful combatant" designation. The Special Committee is particularly concerned by the targeting of children and their treatment in detention, and urges the Government of Israel to immediately release all children held in administrative and other arbitrary detention and cease the ill-treatment and torture of detainees. Moreover, the Special Committee echoes the concluding observations of the Committee on the Rights of the Child on the combined fifth and sixth reports of Israel and the recommendations contained therein.

---

---

You realize the report is including violations by Palestinian groups too (human shields for example).

---

As stated in the report, "the overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers."

That includes the use of human shields. Contrary to popular belief, unfortunately, the practice is not unique to terrorist groups.

Quote:

---

A United Nations committee focused on youth rights accused Israel Thursday of failing to stop the mistreatment of Palestinian children in military and police custody.

The group's report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields, and alleges that detained children in some cases face torture, solitary confinement and threats of sexual assault.

One of the more explosive allegations in the report is the "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants," of which the report says 14 cases have been reported in the last 3 years.

"[Israel's] soldiers have used Palestinian children to enter potentially dangerous buildings ahead of them and to stand in front of military vehicles in order to stop the throwing of stones against those vehicles," the committee writes in the report, citing the U.N.'s Special Rapporteur on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights and Fundemental Freedoms while Countering Terrorism.

According to the report, such activity has largely gone unpunished.

"The soldiers convicted for having forced at gunpoint a nine-year old child to search bags suspected of containing explosives only received a suspended sentence of three months and were demoted."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/

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Do you even understand what is happening in this conflict and how this is reported/accused? Using Israeli requirements of reporting and embedding of UN legal advisors and requirements of state actors vs non states like Hamas that barely have a guy taking notes and zero organizational structure or accountability. But it makes for great political fodder.

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Israel has killed hundreds of UN personnel (and hundreds more journalists) since 2023. There is no way they would tolerate UN observers embedded in their combat units. They have their own legal advisers, whose job is to manage risk and defend troops against prosecution. Anyone who has read independent reports knows how much good that does.

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They aren't going to like this one…

Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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historian said:

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They've already been proven false repeatedly on almost every thread the topic has been mentioned. If you are genuinely interested it should be easy to find. In my mind it's patently obvious unless one does not believe the state of Israel has a right to exist or to defend itself. If you don't believe either then there isn't much hope for you.

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I don't recall any such proof being offered. Let's start with some specific accusations from the UN Special Committee. Which of them are false, or alternatively, which of these practices are justified by Israel's right to exist?

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C. Detentions

The Special Committee has received disturbing briefings on the systematic and widespread perpetration of sexual and gender-based violence, torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment inflicted on Palestinian detainees by Israeli military and security forces, as also reported by the Commission of Inquiry. Thousands of individuals were reportedly held in Israeli prisons and military camps, some under the "Incarceration of Unlawful Combatants Law". Most were detained without due process, without access to family and in severely unhygienic conditions. Detainees faced daily physical and psychological abuse and torture, and many suffered from scabies and other skin infections due to the appalling environment. The torture and ill-treatment were such that special procedure mandate holders denounced them as a crime against humanity, warning that the high-profile case of the gang-rape of a detainee in the Israel Defense Forces detention facility of Sde Teiman represented the tip of the iceberg. The Special Committee also received information about the use of rape and gang-rape, including anal rape with objects, targeting both male and female detainees, amid a near-total absence of prison or military investigations and complete lack of accountability. Numerous Palestinian detainees released during the ceasefire in early 2025 required urgent medical treatment, and some bore signs of acute malnutrition and other forms of torture.

Israel has arrested, arbitrarily detained or held incommunicado tens of thousands of Palestinians since 7 October 2023, raising concerns of enforced disappearance. Verifying figures is difficult given the lack of information shared by the authorities, the denial of access to lawyers and relatives, and the fact that Israel continues to deny visits to places of detention by the International Committee of the Red Cross. On 18 July 2025, special procedure mandate holders warned that about 4,000 Palestinians, including children and older persons, and 51 Israelis were still missing since 7 October 2023. They called upon the authorities in both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory to clarify the fate and whereabouts of all victims of enforced disappearance, no matter the circumstances, whether in detention or deceased. The Special Committee echoes that call.

On 14 July 2025, the non-governmental organization Palestinian Prisoners Society reported that, since 7 October 2023, over 18,000 Palestinians, including 1,450 children and 560 women, had been arrested by Israeli security forces in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, in addition to an unidentified number of detained Palestinians from Gaza. Over the same period, 73 identified Palestinian detainees had died in custody. That number amounted to almost a quarter of the 310 identified Palestinians who had died in Israeli custody since 1967 and had been recorded by the Palestinian Prisoners Society. For the first time since 1967, a juvenile Palestinian detainee, aged 17 years old, died in custody in April 2025, as a result of malnutrition and denial of medical care. In a report, the Commission of Inquiry concluded that the systematic abuse of Palestinian detainees was directly and causally linked to statements made by Israeli officials, including the Minister of National Security, who was responsible for the Israel Prison Service, and other members of the coalition Government, legitimizing revenge and violence against Palestinians.

According to the Jerusalem Legal Aid and Human Rights Center, as at 30 July 2025, Israel retained the bodies of 460 Palestinians (of whom 6 were women and 46 were children), including for use as leverage in negotiations an Israeli practice long predating October 2023. In August 2024, Israeli forces sent the remains of over 80 unidentified Palestinians to a crossing point into Gaza; it was not clear whether the remains were those of bodies dug up from cemeteries in Gaza or of detainees who had died in detention.

For the second year in a row, Israel was included in the annual report of the Secretary-General on children and armed conflict. The highest number of grave violations against children in the world in 2024 was verified in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (8,554), in addition to the verification of another 2,788 grave violations that occurred in 2023 in the Gaza Strip. The overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers. Among those violations, including killings, maiming, the destruction of schools, the use of children as human shields and the denial of humanitarian access, the United Nations also verified the detention in 2024, for alleged security offences, of 951 Palestinian children (940 boys, 11 girls) in the West Bank (602), in East Jerusalem (259) and the Gaza Strip (90), including the detention of a Palestinian girl whose whereabouts remained unknown. Over 110 Palestinian children were being held in administrative detention, without charge or trial as at 31 December 2024, and, in addition, 25 children had been transferred to Israel from the Gaza Strip and detained under the "unlawful combatant" designation. The Special Committee is particularly concerned by the targeting of children and their treatment in detention, and urges the Government of Israel to immediately release all children held in administrative and other arbitrary detention and cease the ill-treatment and torture of detainees. Moreover, the Special Committee echoes the concluding observations of the Committee on the Rights of the Child on the combined fifth and sixth reports of Israel and the recommendations contained therein.

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You realize the report is including violations by Palestinian groups too (human shields for example).

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As stated in the report, "the overwhelming majority (7,188) of the verified violations were attributed to Israeli armed and security forces, and another 42 to Israeli settlers."

That includes the use of human shields. Contrary to popular belief, unfortunately, the practice is not unique to terrorist groups.

Quote:

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A United Nations committee focused on youth rights accused Israel Thursday of failing to stop the mistreatment of Palestinian children in military and police custody.

The group's report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields, and alleges that detained children in some cases face torture, solitary confinement and threats of sexual assault.

One of the more explosive allegations in the report is the "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants," of which the report says 14 cases have been reported in the last 3 years.

"[Israel's] soldiers have used Palestinian children to enter potentially dangerous buildings ahead of them and to stand in front of military vehicles in order to stop the throwing of stones against those vehicles," the committee writes in the report, citing the U.N.'s Special Rapporteur on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights and Fundemental Freedoms while Countering Terrorism.

According to the report, such activity has largely gone unpunished.

"The soldiers convicted for having forced at gunpoint a nine-year old child to search bags suspected of containing explosives only received a suspended sentence of three months and were demoted."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/

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Do you even understand what is happening in this conflict and how this is reported/accused? Using Israeli requirements of reporting and embedding of UN legal advisors and requirements of state actors vs non states like Hamas that barely have a guy taking notes and zero organizational structure or accountability. But it makes for great political fodder.

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Israel has killed hundreds of UN personnel (and hundreds more journalists) since 2023. There is no way they would tolerate UN observers embedded in their combat units. They have their own legal advisers, whose job is to manage risk and defend troops against prosecution. Anyone who has read independent reports knows how much good that does.

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No, the statement is not accurateit's a significant exaggeration, particularly regarding UN personnel.
UN Personnel
UNRWA (UN agency for Palestinian refugees) staff: Reports from UNRWA situation updates indicate around 382392 UNRWA colleagues killed in Gaza since October 7, 2023 (as of late 2025/early 2026).
This includes local Palestinian staff working for the agency. Broader UN figures for all humanitarian/aid workers in Gaza are higher (hundreds total across organizations), but not "hundreds of UN personnel" in the sense of international or core UN staff killed directly by Israel.
These deaths occurred amid intense urban warfare in a densely populated area where Hamas operates embedded among civilians. Israel has disputed many claims, noting that some UNRWA staff had ties to Hamas (a UN investigation confirmed some involvement), and many incidents involved strikes on military targets or collateral damage. The high number is tragic and unprecedented for UN staff in a single conflict, but the claim overstates and simplifies responsibility.
Broader humanitarian worker deaths in Gaza (including NGOs) are in the hundreds, contributing to record global aid worker fatalities, but again, not precisely "UN personnel" in the hundreds killed by deliberate Israeli targeting as implied.
Journalists
Hundreds killed? Closer here but still contested.
The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) and similar groups have reported around 180260+ Palestinian journalists/media workers killed in Gaza since late 2023 (figures vary by date and source, with CPJ around 263 total in the broader conflict zone at points).
Palestinian/Gaza media offices claim even higher numbers (e.g., 260+).
Caveats: Many of those listed as "journalists" had documented affiliations with Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad media arms (e.g., Al-Aqsa TV), and some were confirmed combatants. CPJ itself has reviewed and removed names from its database upon evidence of militant activity. Independent verification is extremely difficult in Gaza due to Hamas control of information. Israel maintains it does not target journalists and investigates incidents, attributing many deaths to crossfire, Hamas using media sites, or misidentification.
Context
The Israel-Hamas war (post-Oct 7, 2023) has been devastating, with high civilian and non-combatant casualties on the Palestinian side due to Hamas's tactics (human shields, tunnels under civilian infrastructure) and Israel's military response to dismantle Hamas. Claims like this often come from sources aligned with Palestinian narratives or UN bodies criticized for bias (e.g., disproportionate focus on Israel while downplaying Hamas). Total Palestinian deaths are reported in the tens of thousands by Gaza Health Ministry (Hamas-run), but these include combatants and are not independently verified in detail.
The statement frames Israel as having systematically "killed hundreds" of protected categories without context, which is misleading propaganda. Tragic losses have occurred on all sides, including Israeli civilians, soldiers, and hostages, but the specific numbers here are inflated or lack nuance. For the most reliable tracking, refer to primary sources like UNRWA reports, CPJ databases, and cross-checked military statements.

Hannity: Lindsey probably has a heavenly version of Mar a Lago. It may even be a little bigger. He may have a little more gold in the Oval Office in his mansion in heaven. And I wouldn't be surprised if he added one big beautiful ballroom and an arch somewhere on the property.… pic.twitter.com/YetsYIxRg2

— Acyn (@Acyn) July 28, 2026

Trump scared a lot of Washington Republicans when he tapped this coffin. Many feared Lyndsay might out them. To his credit, he took gay to the grave.

Trump taps on Lindsey Graham's casket pic.twitter.com/NJtU4d7Led

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 28, 2026