historian said:

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My entire explanation is based on politics, economics, and the history of both. You are stuck on the Leftist propaganda and cannot (or refuse to) see the lies.

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You are coming up with your own biased ideas and then saying anyone that doesnt agree is not willing to see the lies?

No, I'm using accurate definitions based on reality instead of Marxist propaganda.

Use what you want, but when you pass it off as something it isnt you are who looks foolish. Not visionary, not intelligent, just another flunkie, zealot or propaganda bot...

What is foolish is to treat Marxist propaganda as dogma and be unwilling to see it for what it is.

historian said:

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What is foolish is to treat Marxist propaganda as dogma and be unwilling to see it for what it is.

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You are wasting your time with this guy. It's not his fault; three or four decades of running script lines with the bureaucracy makes a permanent imprint on a person's brain. My mother was headed in the same direction after 25 years with the VA until she had the good fortune of being summoned to a position in the union. A couple of years of defending the most idiotic behavior by employees imaginable in jobs they could never lose finally sent her racing back to the other side.

Fauci was just another case of the government's Peter Principle in action. It only showed itself once he reached a level where his power could inflate his wallet, and then that power put the welfare of the people in a shlt can. Add the narcissistic pull of fame and rubbing elbows with the A-listers, and it was more than he could resist, no matter the cost to the peons and their grandmothers. So much so that merely coming clean even with the guarantee of freedom from legal consequences couldn't spur decency in the man. At least he kept that wicked curve ball of his.

You guys keep only focusing on Fauci. I said if they are going to read his diary and grill him
Grill them all, I want Donald, Pence, Biden and the actual decision makers, not Fauci and Dr scarf-lady. They were subject matter experts and went with the rest of the world. Lets get Gen Kelly in there and hear, he would love to tell what happened. You guys dont seem to call for that, only Fauci... You think Trump wants Kelly talkin

You seem to be suggesting that we expect our presidents to make decisions on matters with which they have zero experience or expertise without expert counsel, and that the very people that we task with providing the expertise on vitally crucial matters in the safety and welfare of our citizens should bear no responsibility for making up protocols without scientific basis, lying about pathogenic mortality rates at ten times the base, failing to truthfully disseminate vital information representing the vast consensus of his colleagues and engaging in play-acting with regard to the restrictive edicts that he used fear-mongering to elicit. Not to mention doing such as the highest paid employee in the entire government.

To further suggest that Fauci is somehow absolved because he "went with the rest of the world" is the rankest sort of placation that is so typical of a bureaucrat. Fauci is not responsible for the citizens of Italy or Kenya or Canada, or any other country under the spell of the China-influenced WHO; he is responsible for Americans. That's why the taxpayers paid him more than any other of their advisors.

If what Fauci did was right, or was wrong but based on the scientific evidence with known data, he would have no reason to refuse to answer questions from anybody regarding his actions and advice. He had nothing to fear legally regarding anything he did, even if testified that he did something that was against the law. And yet, he was so concerned over what those answers would reveal, that he invoked a constitutional protection, that didn't even apply to a pardoned individual, over 100 times; something that he never did once in the more than 250 times he had testified before congress prior.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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historian said:

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The fascists wanted to mandate the lockdowns & the vax nationally. Thankfully, red state leaders had better ideas. DeSantis was one of the best and smartest in his leadership. Abbott, was a bit late.

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Simply not true. There was no effort or even suggestion by the Trump administration to mandate national lockdowns.

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Parsing words.

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So...the president shouldn't be allowed to issue non-binding recommendations without approval from Congress? Or the states, counties, and municipalities shouldn't be allowed to exercise their own powers without approval from Congress? Where exactly are you going with this?

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Talk to me about how many states opted out. Presidential "recommendations" strings attached.

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State lockdowns ranged from 40-60 days at the low end to 250+ days at the high end, so attributing it all to a slogan about "two weeks to stop the spread" is rather silly. You're just looking for an easy scapegoat.

Malbec said:

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You seem to be suggesting that we expect our presidents to make decisions on matters with which they have zero experience or expertise without expert counsel, and that the very people that we task with providing the expertise on vitally crucial matters in the safety and welfare of our citizens should bear no responsibility for making up protocols without scientific basis, lying about pathogenic mortality rates at ten times the base, failing to truthfully disseminate vital information representing the vast consensus of his colleagues and engaging in play-acting with regard to the restrictive edicts that he used fear-mongering to elicit. Not to mention doing such as the highest paid employee in the entire government.

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Except that none of that actually happened.

Malbec said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Malbec said:

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You seem to be suggesting that we expect our presidents to make decisions on matters with which they have zero experience or expertise without expert counsel, and that the very people that we task with providing the expertise on vitally crucial matters in the safety and welfare of our citizens should bear no responsibility for making up protocols without scientific basis, lying about pathogenic mortality rates at ten times the base, failing to truthfully disseminate vital information representing the vast consensus of his colleagues and engaging in play-acting with regard to the restrictive edicts that he used fear-mongering to elicit. Not to mention doing such as the highest paid employee in the entire government.

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Except that none of that actually happened.

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The guy admitted to every one of those things. Good grief.

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Nope.

historian said:

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Fascism is of the Left. There is no such thing is right wing fascism, that's a myth started by the Soviets a century ago. It's amazing how long lies can be ingrained in public thinking! That's the impact of relentless propaganda for decades.

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Fascism's philosophical origins were socialist, but it was reactionary in practice. It had plenty of support from conservative elites, nationalist politicians, and big business, all of whom saw it as an antidote to communism.

Simply calling yourself conservative or right-wing doesn't inoculate you from any association with fascism. Such a claim would be thoroughly ahistorical and dishonest.

Sam Lowry said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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historian said:

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The fascists wanted to mandate the lockdowns & the vax nationally. Thankfully, red state leaders had better ideas. DeSantis was one of the best and smartest in his leadership. Abbott, was a bit late.

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Simply not true. There was no effort or even suggestion by the Trump administration to mandate national lockdowns.

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Parsing words.

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So...the president shouldn't be allowed to issue non-binding recommendations without approval from Congress? Or the states, counties, and municipalities shouldn't be allowed to exercise their own powers without approval from Congress? Where exactly are you going with this?

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Talk to me about how many states opted out. Presidential "recommendations" strings attached.

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State lockdowns ranged from 40-60 days at the low end to 250+ days at the high end, so attributing it all to a slogan about "two weeks to stop the spread" is rather silly. You're just looking for an easy scapegoat.

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It's interesting what you ignore when you really want to.

You are mixing numerous subjects.

First, the "Buck Stops Here". That's the job, as least as it is set up in the 21st Century. President's don't go to Congress anymore to go to war or do many things. He has the best information in the world and access to the world. They control military, economy, social, health, science, interior, energy and all are policies they have to decide. So, yes. We do expect them to make decisions on things they know nothing about, everyday.

Second, Fauci was not asked science or medical questions by Paul. It was a political stunt to drag the guy into the media and read his personal diary publicly. He already has a pardon, just like most everyone else involved has no liability clauses or direct pardons. There is no reason for him to go against legal advice and answer anything about personal writings that are normally protected. This was a witch hunt meant as a grandstand by Paul. You would do the same thing, why? Because you counsel would have told you to. And only stupid people go against their legal advice.

Third, nothing the guy advised the President was contrary or different than the rest of the world. We didn't do anything out in left field, everyone else was in the same position. Doing the same things. You guys act like he was doing something different.

Finally, he did have anything to do with the vaccines. He received nothing from Moderna or Pfizer. Warp Speed was Trump's idea. Look into it, Fauci stressed the need for vigorous clinical trials. Trump pushed to skip them or redice the time. "Never been done before faster"...

Fauci's biggest crime is liking the lime light and being very unlikable. As for the "awards", that I don't know about and it was not part of COVID. They should investigate that separately, to determine if anything illegal was done. It is 4 months before elections, now is a good time for grandstanding.

Sam Lowry said:

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historian said:

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Fascism is of the Left. There is no such thing is right wing fascism, that's a myth started by the Soviets a century ago. It's amazing how long lies can be ingrained in public thinking! That's the impact of relentless propaganda for decades.

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Fascism's philosophical origins were socialist, but it was reactionary in practice. It had plenty of support from conservative elites, nationalist politicians, and big business, all of whom saw it as an antidote to communism.

Simply calling yourself conservative or right-wing doesn't inoculate you from any association with fascism. Such a claim would be thoroughly ahistorical and dishonest.

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Lots of radical movements gain support from a variety of forces for a variety of reasons. Those who helped put Hitler in power thought they could control him. They were wrong. These movements have their "useful idiots" that help them and ard then discarded when no longer needed.

Repeating a Leftist propaganda line doesn't inoculate you from any association with fascism. It's thoroughly ahistorical and dishonest.

Sam Lowry said:

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Malbec said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Malbec said:

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You seem to be suggesting that we expect our presidents to make decisions on matters with which they have zero experience or expertise without expert counsel, and that the very people that we task with providing the expertise on vitally crucial matters in the safety and welfare of our citizens should bear no responsibility for making up protocols without scientific basis, lying about pathogenic mortality rates at ten times the base, failing to truthfully disseminate vital information representing the vast consensus of his colleagues and engaging in play-acting with regard to the restrictive edicts that he used fear-mongering to elicit. Not to mention doing such as the highest paid employee in the entire government.

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Except that none of that actually happened.

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The guy admitted to every one of those things. Good grief.

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Nope.

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Gotta say, you stick to your guns no matter how wrong you are. Kudos

Yeah him and Flunaticbear take so many Ls and die on their hills every time

Making up protocols without scientific basis: FALSE
Lying about pathogenic mortality rates at ten times the base: FALSE
Failing to truthfully disseminate vital information representing the vast consensus of his colleagues: FALSE
Engaging in play-acting with regard to the restrictive edicts that he used fear-mongering to elicit: ???

It's not even clear what the last point means, but it's certainly not anything Fauci admitted to.