GruntTuff said:

---

They will now pay anything to make this go away.

---

With someone else's money of course.

Thee University said:

---

At this point why does it matter? At this point who cares?

None of this would have happened had Ian been a leader (real AD), Art a disciplinarian who truly understood how the Baylor game is played in the public eye and behind closed doors and had Ken been doing his job instead of on extended vacation in Waco.

At this point in the continuing saga the University and her reputation will sink even lower in the sewer, the football program will become more and more of a hit target and less and less of a factor nationally and you guys will continue to huddle up in fetal positions crying on each other's shoulders or crotches about how much of a saint Art and his inbred staff were.

I'm still taking reservations for the mass jump off the Alico Building.

---

Wow. Incredulous.

...still jealous of Briles and the way his successes erased your name from Baylor fans' memories??!

Move on, Little Man.

Corporate Governance demands/requires that the failings of a university's handling of issues of these magnitudes be reviewed, critiqued, and corrected for the benefit of the institution's future. These issues are far from resolved..........

But, you can opt out of voicing your two cents.

bunation said:

---

Thee University said:

---

At this point why does it matter? At this point who cares?

None of this would have happened had Ian been a leader (real AD), Art a disciplinarian who truly understood how the Baylor game is played in the public eye and behind closed doors and had Ken been doing his job instead of on extended vacation in Waco.

At this point in the continuing saga the University and her reputation will sink even lower in the sewer, the football program will become more and more of a hit target and less and less of a factor nationally and you guys will continue to huddle up in fetal positions crying on each other's shoulders or crotches about how much of a saint Art and his inbred staff were.

I'm still taking reservations for the mass jump off the Alico Building.

---

Wow. Incredulous.

...still jealous of Briles and the way his successes erased your name from Baylor fans' memories??!

Move on, Little Man.

Corporate Governance demands/requires that the failings of a university's handling of issues of these magnitudes be reviewed, critiqued, and corrected for the benefit of the institution's future. These issues are far from resolved..........

But, you can opt out of voicing your two cents.

---

He was jealous enough after Briles first conf championship but It was the second one that really pushed him over the edge...

Thee University said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Quote:

---

Why didn't the BOR push for his removal or see these problems? Why didn't they get onto Art?

---

Why weren't they proactive as to prevent issues?

This will happen again and again as it has before. Scandal after scandal because regents are incompetent and want to protect themselves.

So yeah. That' why this sh/*t matters.

---

Art was winning. Baylor sold her soul.

Besides, the BOR gets together only a few times each year. It is not like any of the regents are sitting in Waco at Pat Neff with their fingers on the pulse.

Winning, regardless of the collateral damage, tends to cause good, honest folks to withhold from stepping in and nipping it in the bud. However, we all have our breaking points.

Where was Barney Fife when we needed him?

---

By your logic, you have to sell your soul to win at Baylor.
That's absurd and not true.

The highest group responsible for Baylor only meets a few times each year...despite glaring issues.
There's your problem. Lack of control and blame on those who shouldn't be in control.

You're pointing your finger at the wrong people. It's OK to blame the higher ups.

Getting rid of the BOR and cleaning house it the best thing that could happen to Baylor...but it won't.

There's no honor is protecting those scumbags.

The next scandal is upon us I guarantee it. Even preacher boy Little Matty Rhule is scandal prone with this BOR.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Eball said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Eball said:

---

This is testimony from a Regent...someone still on the BOR who was there at the time...I do not see how anyone can not be deeply concerned with how all this went down.

The bottom line is the BOR had a choice when it came to CAB and they could have kept him.

Transparency was and is needed to get past this when will the BOR get that?

---

Duh, of course they had a choice. They chose not to do so. That is your key point of contention, correct?

---

It always has been since day one....I do not have a problem with the termination of CAB it was within the BOR's discretion and there was a buy out available. The problem is they allowed folks to believe they had no choice so as to avoid criticism not only of their failures but to oust the most successful football coach we ever had. Even to this day with all the stuff out there some still believe CAB did horrible things and there was no choice but to terminate him, that is clearly not true. As a football fan I believe I have every right to be angry over what the consequences of the BOR's action were to the football program. As an alumni I think I have every right to be concerned over what the BOR's actions have done to the overall reputation of my University!

---

There was enough out there already that is enough to terminate him. He had two players convicted of sexual assault. He asked Ken Starr to intervene on Elliot's cheating. Starr did. Then two Baylor coeds were raped. The threshold was met. Other things were going on and have been documented. It is reasonable to reach the conclusion that Starr and McCaw were not the people to do the managing. The baffling part is that it is not reasonable to believe that Ramsower was capable of running the ship correctly. Quietly yes. Correctly no.

I suspect that there will never be enough "evidence" to convince you and Mr. Stewart that Briles could be fired. Go back in that Time Machine and change the vote to Briles stays - do you still even care what was happening on campus and in the boardroom? Those meanies hurt your football.

---

Point of order......those 2 co-eds were sexually assaulted not because Starr intervened and TE, thus, remained on campus. It was because RR, Doak, and others in administration didn't tell Briles and football program that he was under investigation by WPD. There's emails to this fact out there now. Once football became aware, he was kicked off. But for RR, Doak, and others not taking early action and even later informing the football program, those SAs wouldn't have happened because TE wouldn't have been around.

---

That is blatantly incorrect. The events of 2011 were a TCU girl and the MCC girl.

The emails were in October of 2011. Judicial Affairs had been informed and opened a case up in November 2011. The AD office and football were informed of the investigation by Judicial Affairs. This also had nothing to do with why TE was kicked off in the spring of 2012.

TE was kicked off the team because of the rape of Jasmine Hernandez. Briles kicked him off the team just days before his arrest. Some where around 10 days before TE was kicked off, Briles knew he was a suspect and DNA samples had been collected. He should have informed JA at this time and did not.

---

What pedantic buffoonery. Kicked off team. Arrested by Waco PD. JA investigation already pending. But Briles should've called JA again. Yeah, that would've been a real game changer.

---

O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive! - Walter Scott


The BOR roosters are coming home to roost. Their apologetics representatives are doing what they have done from the start of this mess. Nothing has changed.

The Baylor way...farting( oops do farts have lumps in them) under the covers then looking innocent and whistling the theme to the Andy Griffin show hoping nobody notices.

Thee University said:

---

Let me know how many are ready for a plank on the Alico.

I'll paint regents faces on the sidewalk below you so you can scream in and have some final satisfaction.

---

In the back of your mind, I think you know these regents will let another problem run rampant at Baylor and they will push blame on whatever the media is focused on...which will not be the actual source of the problem.

Despite knowing this, and having historical analysis to back it up (Bliss scandal) you are here to protect the BOR.

Do you fancy bureaucracies and always believe them? What is your motivation for rolling with the false narrative?

PartyBear said:

---

NoBSU is puzzling. He is a Regent critic but doesn't seem to want anyone else to be.

But NoBSU they are damaging the entire university. Not just football. Football is just a sign of what they are doing to everything else.

---

Not particularly. He is just one of the cadre that sought to project a softening of his advocacy of the Board by claims of opposition, buttressed only by a single issue of the many in which the Board has made egregious errors. "I was against them when they did "X", therefor I am not a supporter.' As more of these indicators come to light of this autocratic cabal and their egomaniac subjection of other regents, you will see these paracletes begin to use some very familiar tactics.

They will label detractors as "crackpots" and "crazies", will refer to alternate positions as "conspiracy theories", and will use an ever-broadening definition of what requires termination. In fact, you will find them equating terms like "every right to terminate" with the necessity to do so. They will dismiss every suggestion of malfeasance by these regents by denigration of the source as either being "disgruntled" or "self-serving". They will reject sworn testimony as being hearsay, even when corroborated by the person with the direct knowledge, whom they will discredit as "having a bone to pick." They will accept every statement from these illusionists to be unassailable fact, while documentation via direct record, be it audio recording, handwritten primary source, or sworn testimony, is fantasy or deliberate aggrandizement.

Of course, such machinations will only work to keep their sheep in the pasture. Their game is up when it comes to anyone not already bamboozled by their sleight-of-hand and hocus-pocus.

Keyser Soze said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Eball said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Eball said:

---

This is testimony from a Regent...someone still on the BOR who was there at the time...I do not see how anyone can not be deeply concerned with how all this went down.

The bottom line is the BOR had a choice when it came to CAB and they could have kept him.

Transparency was and is needed to get past this when will the BOR get that?

---

Duh, of course they had a choice. They chose not to do so. That is your key point of contention, correct?

---

It always has been since day one....I do not have a problem with the termination of CAB it was within the BOR's discretion and there was a buy out available. The problem is they allowed folks to believe they had no choice so as to avoid criticism not only of their failures but to oust the most successful football coach we ever had. Even to this day with all the stuff out there some still believe CAB did horrible things and there was no choice but to terminate him, that is clearly not true. As a football fan I believe I have every right to be angry over what the consequences of the BOR's action were to the football program. As an alumni I think I have every right to be concerned over what the BOR's actions have done to the overall reputation of my University!

---

There was enough out there already that is enough to terminate him. He had two players convicted of sexual assault. He asked Ken Starr to intervene on Elliot's cheating. Starr did. Then two Baylor coeds were raped. The threshold was met. Other things were going on and have been documented. It is reasonable to reach the conclusion that Starr and McCaw were not the people to do the managing. The baffling part is that it is not reasonable to believe that Ramsower was capable of running the ship correctly. Quietly yes. Correctly no.

I suspect that there will never be enough "evidence" to convince you and Mr. Stewart that Briles could be fired. Go back in that Time Machine and change the vote to Briles stays - do you still even care what was happening on campus and in the boardroom? Those meanies hurt your football.

---

Point of order......those 2 co-eds were sexually assaulted not because Starr intervened and TE, thus, remained on campus. It was because RR, Doak, and others in administration didn't tell Briles and football program that he was under investigation by WPD. There's emails to this fact out there now. Once football became aware, he was kicked off. But for RR, Doak, and others not taking early action and even later informing the football program, those SAs wouldn't have happened because TE wouldn't have been around.

---

That is blatantly incorrect. The events of 2011 were a TCU girl and the MCC girl.

The emails were in October of 2011. Judicial Affairs had been informed and opened a case up in November 2011. The AD office and football were informed of the investigation by Judicial Affairs. This also had nothing to do with why TE was kicked off in the spring of 2012.

TE was kicked off the team because of the rape of Jasmine Hernandez. Briles kicked him off the team just days before his arrest. Some where around 10 days before TE was kicked off, Briles knew he was a suspect and DNA samples had been collected. He should have informed JA at this time and did not.

---

Again, but for RR, Doak, and others not taking early action and even later informing the football program, those other SAs wouldn't have happened because TE wouldn't have been around.

So we've got documentation noted in a Waco Trib article:
- October 5, 2011 email showing Doak and RR knew TE was "assaulting young women" (note the plural used from Trib report)
- November 7, 2011 email noting that administration (Murdock, McCraw, and Martha Lou) knew of TE's "assaults" (note plural used from Trib report),
- November 2011 football told of "an incident" (note singular used from Trib report-unwanted contact)
- TE allegedly rapes a student on 4/15/12,
- Administration fully notifies football program on 4/25/12,
- Football program suspends Elliott on 4/27/12 the same day they learn Waco PD wants a cheek swab for their investigation.

You can't get around facts that have since come to light. From dated documents it appears football was never fully notified of breadth of the situation until 4/25/12. It further appears to me that that the clown show of RR, Doak, Murdock, McCraw, Martha Lou, were the problem. That's 5 senior folks in the administration that knew and did nothing.

The biggest problem is we still don't really know what happened or why. PSU, MSU, tOSU and others schools impacted by similar scandals released their investigative findings int total; in each instance the people supervising the investigators were at least partially independent of school leadership.

We do 13 pages of "findings of fact" that are not facts at all, but are conclusions. Conclusions drafted by school leadership. The actual facts dribble out from lawsuits and get twisted like everything in a lawsuit does.

I see no reason to trust the BOR on anything. They proved that in the BAA dispute that they are not honest and they doubled down big time in the way they handled the sexual assault scandal. That doesn't mean they were wrong to fire CAB; it just means they can't be trusted.

Keyser Soze said:

---

An investigation was started by Judicial Affairs in November of 2011.

Now we can likely all agree JA lacked swiftness of their investigation - but handing things over to JA is exactly what should be done. You can not say nothing was done. Just factually incorrect.

---

"Lacked swiftness"? What a friggin joke. The point is that JA, Baylor PD and Baylor counseling would not investigate sexual assault and then **** shame any girl insistent on pressing her complaint. So we fire CAB for not adhering to a broken system and we keep the guy who made sure the system was broken?

If that is what happened, it is enough to make me vomit. My school sucks.

Keyser Soze said:

---

There are many reasons they fired Briles

Deceiving your employer gets you fired anywhere - how screwed up other employees may be is not really a valid excuse

---

Not in the real world. There are some employees so valuable they get away with stuff. Has been that way forever and will always be that way. So the fact that Art covered up MIPs or marijuana possession does not bother me in the least. 80% of college football coaches do the same. In fact, 80% of the parents of Baylor students would do the same for their kids by hiring attorneys to make sure a kid's record stays clean.

We supposedly fired Art Briles becuase he covered up sexual assault. If he did, he deserved to be fired. But there is a difference between failing to report and covering up. That difference is more pronounced when the report would have gone into a black hole anyway.

Edit: and the "many reasons" line strikes me as "we need to come up with a new story now that our old one is falling apart."

Keyser Soze said:

---

An investigation was started by Judicial Affairs in November of 2011.

Now we can likely all agree JA lacked swiftness of their investigation - but handing things over to JA is exactly what should be done. You can not say nothing was done. Just factually incorrect.

---

I understand your need to defend the administration, but the facts say otherwise. There was a 10/5/11 email demonstrating at least RR and Doak knew a month before the 11/7/11 email demonstrating others in the administration knew. Football was apprised in November 2011 but of only a single incident of unwanted touching; not that TE was being watched because of multiple assaults. Saying JA lacked swiftness understates the importance and severity of not only the incidents but of also the accountability.

xiledinok said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

There are many reasons they fired Briles

Deceiving your employer gets you fired anywhere - how screwed up other employees may be is not really a valid excuse

---

Lying gets you fired.

---

Not so much.
--Urban Meyer