Waco1947 said:

---

Here's the idea. Feedback on ideas would be helpful
"According to Whitehead 2nd grade is inanimate objects I.e. rocks, cars, mountains, just being there unless acted upon by beings Again God has nothing to do with moving these thing, not in the OT and in the NT. (Certainly the witnesses of the Bible saw God moving things around but that was to engender faith not his power but in hearts. Amazement is not faith. God knew that Faith is reliance on God). So God does act in love with souls and hearts but not on Grade 1 & 2 objects.
The "God that acts on things" is a cosmology - a worldview of the Bible writers. But our cosmology, especially physics has advanced. Sure God inspires scripture but God inspires. Faith understandings in our abilities, our relationships, and in our life. God does act on hearts and souls."

---

47, I continue to read your posts. Several times I have constructed responses only to delete because I have a hard time believing you want my feedback.

You have made a decision that you trust Whitehead more than Scripture. I do not. I trust Scripture more than Whitehead. We are two skew lines.

You bring up God and hurricanes. You use physics as the final authority that God has nothing to do with hurricanes, your and Whitehead's view of reality.

I will start with 1 as the highest grade of reality.

1. God is a self existent person, free, in need of nothing having an infinite number of attributes of which we can never comprehend; but yet, we can know Him For God is a person who reveals himself to us. God existed alone before creating other personal beings. God is radically Spirit and non-physical, not made up of constituent particles of Whitehead's grade 1 or 2 realities.

2. Before the creation of what you call reality, God created a myriad of spiritual beings, persons (having a personality and free will) and having a body we are not able to determine because their bodies are not made of the constituent particles of Whitehead's grade 1 and 2 reality. The purpose of these spiritual beings is (present tense intended) to humble themselves before God and to give God all the glory. Yet in pride, one of these spiritual beings, being filled with pride, rebelled against God at some point before the creation of what you call reality. One of these spiritual beings, of its free will filled with pride rather than humility chose to exalt itself over its maker.

3. God: YHWH, Father, Son, Spirit, chose to create the physical realm, or grade 3, reality of which we are apart. This reality was perfect and consistent with the character of God. None of this creation had free will; but rather follows the laws of physics which are ordinances of God for creation.

So God is in the hurricane in the sense that the hurricane is a result of the constituent particles and interactions of this 3rd grade reality.

But unlike the deists who embrace an omnipotent god but not an eminent god, this God: YHWH, Father, Son, and Spirt, choses to make Himself known to those of us in this 3rd grade reality which he also created as a 4th grade reality with a mix of the spiritual realties of grade 1, grade 2, and grade 3 reality explained above.

47, and others, what are your thoughts about my proposed 4 grades of reality.

There's a long-time poster on this site who once wrote a PhD dissertation on Whitehead and Process thought--especially if and how Whiteheadian categories could be used in Christian conversations of Incarnational Theology.

That poster highly recommends Daniel Day Williams as a much more useable process'er than Whitehead if looking for Christian nuances.

But I think I've convinced that guy to stay out of this one. . . .

SSadler said:

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There's a long-time poster on this site who once wrote a PhD dissertation on Whitehead and Process thought--especially if and how Whiteheadian categories could be used in Christian conversations of Incarnational Theology.

That poster highly recommends Daniel Day Williams as a much more useable process'er than Whitehead if looking for Christian nuances.

But I think I've convinced that guy to stay out of this one. . . .

---

c'mon Dr Sadler, twist his arm a bit for us. It might be interesting.

Waco1947 said:

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It's simple. What "proof is there that God is all powerful?"

Your answer "The Bible says so and here's 10 examples."

Where I'd thise examples come from? " The Bible"

Any outside sources? No. Then why believe nonsense. Why not believe in a God of Live and faith? That God is real.

---

Waco1947, **please note**

I did not list those verses to "prove" something to you, or to make a circular argument.

The purpose was to show you that your beliefs are directly contradicted by the Old and New Testaments, and to elicit a response from you when confronted by this fact, for the record.

As many here have already noted, your responses show that you deny the authority of the Bible as the written word of God, which, in the very least, puts your claim of being a Christian under serious question, as well as exposes you as a false teacher.

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

---

The question for 47 is, "Did the physical body of Jesus decay?"

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

---

His answer will be "God is Love"

Kind of Waco's version of "I am Groot

Oldbear83 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

---

His answer will be "God is Love"

Kind of Waco's version of "I am Groot

---

No, 47 will say yes Jesus rose. It was a spiritual resurrection in the disciples. He will reference 1 Cor 15 to support his position.

47, will say today, we experience the spiritual resurrection as we we gather around the Table and live of life of love for God and neighbor.

47, in his construct, has no room for a "spiritual flesh" that does not under go decay and lives eternally. A spiritual flesh that is a radical transformation of our original earthly flesh.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Here's the idea. Feedback on ideas would be helpful
"According to Whitehead 2nd grade is inanimate objects I.e. rocks, cars, mountains, just being there unless acted upon by beings Again God has nothing to do with moving these thing, not in the OT and in the NT. (Certainly the witnesses of the Bible saw God moving things around but that was to engender faith not his power but in hearts. Amazement is not faith. God knew that Faith is reliance on God). So God does act in love with souls and hearts but not on Grade 1 & 2 objects.
The "God that acts on things" is a cosmology - a worldview of the Bible writers. But our cosmology, especially physics has advanced. Sure God inspires scripture but God inspires. Faith understandings in our abilities, our relationships, and in our life. God does act on hearts and souls."

---

Again, our physics has nothing to say about what God can or can't do. Tacking "because science" onto a bad theological argument doesn't change anything.

---

Then why make the claim.

Oldbear83 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

---

His answer will be "God is Love"

Kind of Waco's version of "I am Groot

---

Yes Jesus roses from the dead. See Corthinians 15

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

---

His answer will be "God is Love"

Kind of Waco's version of "I am Groot

---

Yes Jesus roses from the dead. See Corthinians 15

---

I Corthinians 15: Some of you have asked, "How will the dead be raised to life? What kind of bodies will they have?" 36 Don't be foolish. A seed must die before it can sprout from the ground. 37 Wheat seeds and all other seeds look different from the sprouts that come up. 38 This is because God gives everything the kind of body he wants it to have. 39 People, animals, birds, and fish are each made of flesh, but none of them are alike. 40 Everything in the heavens has a body, and so does everything on earth. But each one is very different from all the others. 41 The sun isn't like the moon, the moon isn't like the stars, and each star is different.

42 That's how it will be when our bodies are raised to life. These bodies will die, but the bodies that are raised will live forever."
Oldbear as Paul says "Don't be foolish,"
My body will die and God will me one appropriate to resurrection. I trust the Lord. Don't be foolish ssys Paul. It's in God's hands. It's called faith, Not all powerful or doctrine. It's called God taking care of me in death.

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Here's the idea. Feedback on ideas would be helpful
"According to Whitehead 2nd grade is inanimate objects I.e. rocks, cars, mountains, just being there unless acted upon by beings Again God has nothing to do with moving these thing, not in the OT and in the NT. (Certainly the witnesses of the Bible saw God moving things around but that was to engender faith not his power but in hearts. Amazement is not faith. God knew that Faith is reliance on God). So God does act in love with souls and hearts but not on Grade 1 & 2 objects.
The "God that acts on things" is a cosmology - a worldview of the Bible writers. But our cosmology, especially physics has advanced. Sure God inspires scripture but God inspires. Faith understandings in our abilities, our relationships, and in our life. God does act on hearts and souls."

---

Again, our physics has nothing to say about what God can or can't do. Tacking "because science" onto a bad theological argument doesn't change anything.

---

Then why make the claim.

---

Why shouldn't I?

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Here's the idea. Feedback on ideas would be helpful
"According to Whitehead 2nd grade is inanimate objects I.e. rocks, cars, mountains, just being there unless acted upon by beings Again God has nothing to do with moving these thing, not in the OT and in the NT. (Certainly the witnesses of the Bible saw God moving things around but that was to engender faith not his power but in hearts. Amazement is not faith. God knew that Faith is reliance on God). So God does act in love with souls and hearts but not on Grade 1 & 2 objects.
The "God that acts on things" is a cosmology - a worldview of the Bible writers. But our cosmology, especially physics has advanced. Sure God inspires scripture but God inspires. Faith understandings in our abilities, our relationships, and in our life. God does act on hearts and souls."

---

Again, our physics has nothing to say about what God can or can't do. Tacking "because science" onto a bad theological argument doesn't change anything.

---

Then why make the claim.

---

Why shouldn't I?

---

Because you're asking people to believe in a fairy tale. That day is gone. It does win people to Christ. Remember when tried to scare hell of people? That day is gone too. A God who love and serves is God who draws people to God's self.

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

---

His answer will be "God is Love"

Kind of Waco's version of "I am Groot

---

Yes Jesus roses from the dead. See Corthinians 15

---

I Corthinians 15: Some of you have asked, "How will the dead be raised to life? What kind of bodies will they have?" 36 Don't be foolish. A seed must die before it can sprout from the ground. 37 Wheat seeds and all other seeds look different from the sprouts that come up. 38 This is because God gives everything the kind of body he wants it to have. 39 People, animals, birds, and fish are each made of flesh, but none of them are alike. 40 Everything in the heavens has a body, and so does everything on earth. But each one is very different from all the others. 41 The sun isn't like the moon, the moon isn't like the stars, and each star is different.

42 That's how it will be when our bodies are raised to life. These bodies will die, but the bodies that are raised will live forever."
Oldbear as Paul says "Don't be foolish,"
My body will die and God will me one appropriate to resurrection. I trust the Lord. Don't be foolish ssys Paul. It's in God's hands. It's called faith, Not all powerful or doctrine. It's called God taking care of me in death.

---

Waco, have you ever noticed my signature line?

"That which does not kill me will try again, and get nastier"

I'm supposed to be dead, sir. I did not survive cancer because of the brilliance of doctors, but because God chose to save me.

Same for my daughter. She went through bacterial meningitus when an infant, endured a fever above 104 degrees for three hours and above 102 for six hours with no permanent effects, againt due to the grace of God and the power of prayer.

In 1994 I was hit broadside by a drunk driver, and my car was destroyed - the fire department had to cut me out of the vehicle and it took two hours to do it. Yet all I suffered were cuts and scratches, even though the EMTs told me not to move because I surely had serious injuries requiring immediate medical attention.

In 1990 I was a victim in a robbery and the guy pointing the gun at me tried to shoot me, but his gun misfired. He had another gun but the guy with him told him to leave because he could 'hear the cops coming', even though there were no sirens and police did not arrive until 45 minutes after I and the other victims called police when they left.

I have been on an airplane which was out of control and less than 30 feet from the ground, when for no reason it suddenly leveled out and pilots gained control of the plane. They told me later that should have been impossible.

I could go on and on, Waco. And just as you lie about what I have said in this thread, I am sure you would claim my experiences were coincidence or confusion of the facts.

Because it is you you lacks faith.

You have been provided with sixty-six books of Scripture, carefully written at the direction of the Holy Spirit. That Scripture provides law, teaching, prophecy and promises, much of which you reject simply because you prefer the words of men to God's word.

I trust God, and understand that He has complete control. That includes everything Man can do, and also the laws of Nature you like so much.

God controls all. To limit Him is to mock Him.

in conclusion, yes I too believe the words in 1st Corinthian, which by the way were written by the Apostle Paul, whom you reject and despise. Paul's words are consistent with the Book of Daniel, which reminds us of a detail you ought to keep in mind:

Daniel 12:2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt"

Choose wisely, Waco.

Polycarp said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

---

The question for 47 is, "Did the physical body of Jesus decay?"

---

So 47, the above is a simple question. Please answer.

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947, one question:

Did Jesus rise from the dead?

---

His answer will be "God is Love"

Kind of Waco's version of "I am Groot

---

Yes Jesus roses from the dead. See Corthinians 15

---

I Corthinians 15: Some of you have asked, "How will the dead be raised to life? What kind of bodies will they have?" 36 Don't be foolish. A seed must die before it can sprout from the ground. 37 Wheat seeds and all other seeds look different from the sprouts that come up. 38 This is because God gives everything the kind of body he wants it to have. 39 People, animals, birds, and fish are each made of flesh, but none of them are alike. 40 Everything in the heavens has a body, and so does everything on earth. But each one is very different from all the others. 41 The sun isn't like the moon, the moon isn't like the stars, and each star is different.

42 That's how it will be when our bodies are raised to life. These bodies will die, but the bodies that are raised will live forever."
Oldbear as Paul says "Don't be foolish,"
My body will die and God will me one appropriate to resurrection. I trust the Lord. Don't be foolish ssys Paul. It's in God's hands. It's called faith, Not all powerful or doctrine. It's called God taking care of me in death.

---

Oh foolish 47. You would have made a great Saducee back in the day. I sense many of your questions are in the same fashion as the Saducees asking Jesus, "Whose wife will she be in the resurrection?"

I appreciate you acknowledging that God will give you a body appropriate for the resurrection. Yes it is in God's hands, certainly not ours as you state. Correct again! You've got two in a row!

It's called faith. Way to go 47, that's three in a row! You are closing in on the truth. It's called God taking care of me. Again 47 you are on target!

But you insert "not all powerful or doctrine." I don't see that anywhere in 1Corinthians 15. Why do you add this phrase. Are not all the items I commend you on doctrine, which is another word for teaching?

Why are you so afraid of an all powerful God who is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness and truth(faithfulness.)?

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Here's the idea. Feedback on ideas would be helpful
"According to Whitehead 2nd grade is inanimate objects I.e. rocks, cars, mountains, just being there unless acted upon by beings Again God has nothing to do with moving these thing, not in the OT and in the NT. (Certainly the witnesses of the Bible saw God moving things around but that was to engender faith not his power but in hearts. Amazement is not faith. God knew that Faith is reliance on God). So God does act in love with souls and hearts but not on Grade 1 & 2 objects.
The "God that acts on things" is a cosmology - a worldview of the Bible writers. But our cosmology, especially physics has advanced. Sure God inspires scripture but God inspires. Faith understandings in our abilities, our relationships, and in our life. God does act on hearts and souls."

---

Again, our physics has nothing to say about what God can or can't do. Tacking "because science" onto a bad theological argument doesn't change anything.

---

Then why make the claim.

---

Why shouldn't I?

---

Because you're asking people to believe in a fairy tale. That day is gone. It does win people to Christ. Remember when tried to scare hell of people? That day is gone too. A God who love and serves is God who draws people to God's self.

---

By believing in a "fairy tale" do you mean I believe in foolishness?

An early church teaching is that the wisdom of God is foolishness to people and the wisdom of people is foolishness to God.

Applied to this discussion, the wisdom of Whitehead is foolishness to God and the wisdom of God is foolishness to Whitehead.

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Here's the idea. Feedback on ideas would be helpful
"According to Whitehead 2nd grade is inanimate objects I.e. rocks, cars, mountains, just being there unless acted upon by beings Again God has nothing to do with moving these thing, not in the OT and in the NT. (Certainly the witnesses of the Bible saw God moving things around but that was to engender faith not his power but in hearts. Amazement is not faith. God knew that Faith is reliance on God). So God does act in love with souls and hearts but not on Grade 1 & 2 objects.
The "God that acts on things" is a cosmology - a worldview of the Bible writers. But our cosmology, especially physics has advanced. Sure God inspires scripture but God inspires. Faith understandings in our abilities, our relationships, and in our life. God does act on hearts and souls."

---

Again, our physics has nothing to say about what God can or can't do. Tacking "because science" onto a bad theological argument doesn't change anything.

---

Then why make the claim.

---

Why shouldn't I?

---

Because you're asking people to believe in a fairy tale. That day is gone. It does win people to Christ. Remember when tried to scare hell of people? That day is gone too. A God who love and serves is God who draws people to God's self.

---

Yours is the spirit of antichrist, who denies the Incarnation and Resurrection. If "fairy tales" win even one person to the biblical Christ, it's one more than you and your false teachings ever will.

All sweetness and light. ""I am pushing again at the nature of God - a God incapable moving Grade 1 or Grade 2 realities. The are real. Can you prove otherwise.?"
So on one p 1 you re me physics had nothing to do with God. Not I am the AC?
SL "Again, our physics has nothing to say about what God can or can't do. Tacking "because science" onto a bad theological argument doesn't change anything."
Contradiction?

Waco1947 said:

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All sweetness and light. ""I am pushing again at the nature of God - a God incapable moving Grade 1 or Grade 2 realities. The are real. Can you prove otherwise.?"
So on one p 1 you re me physics had nothing to do with God. Not I am the AC?
SL "Again, our physics has nothing to say about what God can or can't do. Tacking "because science" onto a bad theological argument doesn't change anything."
Contradiction?

---

I'm sorry, I can't tell what you're asking here.

Sam Lowry said:

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Waco1947 said:

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All sweetness and light. ""I am pushing again at the nature of God - a God incapable moving Grade 1 or Grade 2 realities. The are real. Can you prove otherwise.?"
So on one p 1 you re me physics had nothing to do with God. Not I am the AC?
SL "Again, our physics has nothing to say about what God can or can't do. Tacking "because science" onto a bad theological argument doesn't change anything."
Contradiction?

---

I'm sorry, I can't tell what you're asking here.

---

I am saying stupid things. Jet lag. I'll try again. My apologies

Is Whitehead right?
Alfred North Whitehead
Grade 2 Reality
The 2nd grade is inanimate objects I.e. rocks, cars, mountains, just being there unless acted upon by beings Again God has nothing to do with moving these thing, not in the OT and in the NT. Yet God does act in love with souls and hearts but not on Grade objects.
The "God that acts on things" is an cosmology - worldview with our knowledge of faith he future and for instance cars. God does act on hearts and souls.

Simply asked Do you believe in a Grade 2,Reality of inanimate objects? You believe in isness do you not?
1). What acts on these grade 2 realities? My answer Grade 1 gravity, wind, water, electromagnetic forces
2). I do not believe God has that power. God has power but not those powers
3). Your evidence of an all powerful God is the Bible and you believe the Bible because the Bible says it's so. Circular logic.
4). It is still possible to believe in God just not one who moves rocks

I choose to trust God. Whitehead is just a man, so I will consider his words in their proper context, but grant them no trust or faith.

its Not Whitehead in whom I trust. I trust the the grade 1 reality.
P.S. so do you.

Canada2017 said:

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Have never witnessed any individual who craved attention more than Waco1947 .

Absolutely bizarre.

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...and in serious need of lightning rods!

Waco1947 said:

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its Not Whitehead in whom I trust. I trust the the grade 1 reality.
P.S. so do you.

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Any comment of any profoundity.
It's a real question. Do you believe in Grade1 reality?