BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why be against full discovery of who is here?

---

If you're supporting the citizenship question -which we know will depress responses- then you're not really supporting the full discovery.

---

But it will reveal who isn't a citizen.

Everything any of these yo-yos do whether they are labeled "R" or "D" or named Trump or Clinton is always politically motivated. Is there a need to ask?

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why be against full discovery of who is here?

---

If you're supporting the citizenship question -which we know will depress responses- then you're not really supporting the full discovery.

---

But it will reveal who isn't a citizen.

---

You can't say you want all kids to be able to participate at your summer camp, if you insist on offering peanut butter sandwiches for lunch everyday, especially if you know there's a group of kids who have peanut allergies.

But that's not the only issue here. Our administration isn't only doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons. It's openly lying about it. That doesn't bother anyone? Are we all so incredibly and irredeemably cynical that we can't be upset about that?

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

Here's the thing: The Bible these people read and claim as their guide for life apparently doesn't include the parable of the good Samaritan, where the lesson is that YOU do the right thing and take care of people unable to care for and advocate for themselves regardless of what other people do or whether you believe they're untouchable or have some other convenient excuse to pass them by, ignore them or discourage them from responding to the census. And the damage has probably been done. In the unlikely event, given the general lack of respect for the rule of law that characterizes this administration, Census takers do seek to count these people, how many do you think will respond?

The churches they go to apparently never sing the old hymn, "In Christ there is no East or West" (I've pasted the lyrics in below).

The ONLY census they want to take is for the only people they believe really count--white people and conservatives. Liberals, black people, brown people, refugees, immigrants, and women and children who aren't under the care and supervision of a conservative, religious white man aren't worth any investment of taxpayer dollars (and they don't really want to be taxpayers, anyway). Everyone who isn't exactly like them and doesn't share their race and "worldview" is viewed as deserving of hate and scorn, and that's what they get on this site, thanks at least in part to a couple of posters who constantly salt this forum with 8Chan-style propaganda. It's hard to believe Sicem's moderators don't see what's going on; I can only conclude that they do and are complicit.

The level of contempt I see on a daily basis on this forum toward all of those groups not only disregards a constitution that originally gave white landowners the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and which we have extended to women and non-white citizens (a step too far beyond originalism for these guys), but also disregards the Biblical imperative of living in community and caring for orphans and widows and the sick and disabled. If you disagree with that very narrow comfort zone, you're a Samaritan--a foreigner. I hope enough Samaritans get out and vote that we elect a leader willing to do the hard work required to help us learn to live in community and stop destroying the planet. These people may oppose abortion, but they despise life in the form of actual people who aren't white and conservative and either male or under conservative male supervision, and they want to do everything they possibly can to make people who aren't like them so unwelcome they stop showing up at the borders or give up on living in states where they and their families have lived for generations and leave.

1 In Christ there is no east or west,
in him no south or north,
but one great fellowship of love
throughout the whole wide earth.
2 In Christ shall true hearts everywhere
their high communion find;
his service is the golden cord
close-binding humankind.
3 Join hands, disciples of the faith,
whate'er your race may be.
All children of the living God
are surely kin to me.
4 In Christ now meet both east and west;
in him meet south and north.
All Christly souls are one in him
throughout the whole wide earth.

Jinx 2 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

Here's the thing: The Bible these people read and claim as their guide for life apparently doesn't include the parable of the good Samaritan, where the lesson is that YOU do the right thing and take care of people unable to care for and advocate for themselves regardless of what other people do or whether you believe they're untouchable or have some other convenient excuse to pass them by, ignore them or discourage them from responding to the census. And the damage has probably been done. In the unlikely event, given the general lack of respect for the rule of law that characterizes this administration, Census takers do seek to count these people, how many do you think will respond?

The churches they go to apparently never sing the old hymn, "In Christ there is no East or West" (I've pasted the lyrics in below).

The ONLY census they want to take is for the only people they believe really count--white people and conservatives. Liberals, black people, brown people, refugees, immigrants, and women and children who aren't under the care and supervision of a conservative, religious white man aren't worth any investment of taxpayer dollars (and they don't really want to be taxpayers, anyway). Everyone who isn't exactly like them and doesn't share their race and "worldview" is viewed as deserving of hate and scorn, and that's what they get on this site, thanks at least in part to a couple of posters who constantly salt this forum with 8Chan-style propaganda. It's hard to believe Sicem's moderators don't see what's going on; I can only conclude that they do and are complicit.

The level of contempt I see on a daily basis on this forum toward all of those groups not only disregards a constitution that originally gave white landowners the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and which we have extended to women and non-white citizens (a step too far beyond originalism for these guys), but also disregards the Biblical imperative of living in community and caring for orphans and widows and the sick and disabled. If you disagree with that very narrow comfort zone, you're a Samaritan--a foreigner. I hope enough Samaritans get out and vote that we elect a leader willing to do the hard work required to help us learn to live in community and stop destroying the planet. These people may oppose abortion, but they despise life in the form of actual people who aren't white and conservative and either male or under conservative male supervision, and they want to do everything they possibly can to make people who aren't like them so unwelcome they stop showing up at the borders or give up on living in states where they and their families have lived for generations and leave.

1 In Christ there is no east or west,
in him no south or north,
but one great fellowship of love
throughout the whole wide earth.
2 In Christ shall true hearts everywhere
their high communion find;
his service is the golden cord
close-binding humankind.
3 Join hands, disciples of the faith,
whate'er your race may be.
All children of the living God
are surely kin to me.
4 In Christ now meet both east and west;
in him meet south and north.
All Christly souls are one in him
throughout the whole wide earth.

---

We don't have unlimited resources though. Not all in need can be taken care of. So who do we take care of? Well according the liberals who want to say Trump is destroying the economy and living wages aren't enough to live on, we have plenty of American citizens who need help. We have soldiers who return from war with nothing who gave everything for our country... they need help too. So save me the "Good Samaritan" speech and trying to make conservatives out to be Satanists.

I am a Good Samaritan, and I want to take care of all people. But we can't. So let's take care of our tribe.

JCWortsman said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

Here's the thing: The Bible these people read and claim as their guide for life apparently doesn't include the parable of the good Samaritan, where the lesson is that YOU do the right thing and take care of people unable to care for and advocate for themselves regardless of what other people do or whether you believe they're untouchable or have some other convenient excuse to pass them by, ignore them or discourage them from responding to the census. And the damage has probably been done. In the unlikely event, given the general lack of respect for the rule of law that characterizes this administration, Census takers do seek to count these people, how many do you think will respond?

The churches they go to apparently never sing the old hymn, "In Christ there is no East or West" (I've pasted the lyrics in below).

The ONLY census they want to take is for the only people they believe really count--white people and conservatives. Liberals, black people, brown people, refugees, immigrants, and women and children who aren't under the care and supervision of a conservative, religious white man aren't worth any investment of taxpayer dollars (and they don't really want to be taxpayers, anyway). Everyone who isn't exactly like them and doesn't share their race and "worldview" is viewed as deserving of hate and scorn, and that's what they get on this site, thanks at least in part to a couple of posters who constantly salt this forum with 8Chan-style propaganda. It's hard to believe Sicem's moderators don't see what's going on; I can only conclude that they do and are complicit.

The level of contempt I see on a daily basis on this forum toward all of those groups not only disregards a constitution that originally gave white landowners the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and which we have extended to women and non-white citizens (a step too far beyond originalism for these guys), but also disregards the Biblical imperative of living in community and caring for orphans and widows and the sick and disabled. If you disagree with that very narrow comfort zone, you're a Samaritan--a foreigner. I hope enough Samaritans get out and vote that we elect a leader willing to do the hard work required to help us learn to live in community and stop destroying the planet. These people may oppose abortion, but they despise life in the form of actual people who aren't white and conservative and either male or under conservative male supervision, and they want to do everything they possibly can to make people who aren't like them so unwelcome they stop showing up at the borders or give up on living in states where they and their families have lived for generations and leave.

1 In Christ there is no east or west,
in him no south or north,
but one great fellowship of love
throughout the whole wide earth.
2 In Christ shall true hearts everywhere
their high communion find;
his service is the golden cord
close-binding humankind.
3 Join hands, disciples of the faith,
whate'er your race may be.
All children of the living God
are surely kin to me.
4 In Christ now meet both east and west;
in him meet south and north.
All Christly souls are one in him
throughout the whole wide earth.

---

We don't have unlimited resources though. Not all in need can be taken care of. So who do we take care of? Well according the liberals who want to say Trump is destroying the economy and living wages aren't enough to live on, we have plenty of American citizens who need help. We have soldiers who return from war with nothing who gave everything for our country... they need help too. So save me the "Good Samaritan" speech and trying to make conservatives out to be Satanists.

I am a Good Samaritan, and I want to take care of all people. But we can't. So let's take care of our tribe.

---

Who is "our tribe"?

Jinx 2 said:

---

JCWortsman said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

Here's the thing: The Bible these people read and claim as their guide for life apparently doesn't include the parable of the good Samaritan, where the lesson is that YOU do the right thing and take care of people unable to care for and advocate for themselves regardless of what other people do or whether you believe they're untouchable or have some other convenient excuse to pass them by, ignore them or discourage them from responding to the census. And the damage has probably been done. In the unlikely event, given the general lack of respect for the rule of law that characterizes this administration, Census takers do seek to count these people, how many do you think will respond?

The churches they go to apparently never sing the old hymn, "In Christ there is no East or West" (I've pasted the lyrics in below).

The ONLY census they want to take is for the only people they believe really count--white people and conservatives. Liberals, black people, brown people, refugees, immigrants, and women and children who aren't under the care and supervision of a conservative, religious white man aren't worth any investment of taxpayer dollars (and they don't really want to be taxpayers, anyway). Everyone who isn't exactly like them and doesn't share their race and "worldview" is viewed as deserving of hate and scorn, and that's what they get on this site, thanks at least in part to a couple of posters who constantly salt this forum with 8Chan-style propaganda. It's hard to believe Sicem's moderators don't see what's going on; I can only conclude that they do and are complicit.

The level of contempt I see on a daily basis on this forum toward all of those groups not only disregards a constitution that originally gave white landowners the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and which we have extended to women and non-white citizens (a step too far beyond originalism for these guys), but also disregards the Biblical imperative of living in community and caring for orphans and widows and the sick and disabled. If you disagree with that very narrow comfort zone, you're a Samaritan--a foreigner. I hope enough Samaritans get out and vote that we elect a leader willing to do the hard work required to help us learn to live in community and stop destroying the planet. These people may oppose abortion, but they despise life in the form of actual people who aren't white and conservative and either male or under conservative male supervision, and they want to do everything they possibly can to make people who aren't like them so unwelcome they stop showing up at the borders or give up on living in states where they and their families have lived for generations and leave.

1 In Christ there is no east or west,
in him no south or north,
but one great fellowship of love
throughout the whole wide earth.
2 In Christ shall true hearts everywhere
their high communion find;
his service is the golden cord
close-binding humankind.
3 Join hands, disciples of the faith,
whate'er your race may be.
All children of the living God
are surely kin to me.
4 In Christ now meet both east and west;
in him meet south and north.
All Christly souls are one in him
throughout the whole wide earth.

---

We don't have unlimited resources though. Not all in need can be taken care of. So who do we take care of? Well according the liberals who want to say Trump is destroying the economy and living wages aren't enough to live on, we have plenty of American citizens who need help. We have soldiers who return from war with nothing who gave everything for our country... they need help too. So save me the "Good Samaritan" speech and trying to make conservatives out to be Satanists.

I am a Good Samaritan, and I want to take care of all people. But we can't. So let's take care of our tribe.

---

Who is "our tribe"?

---

American citizens. Those here legally and who have been here. Those who truly can't work and need to provide for their children (but not "don't want to work"). Those who have fought for our country and need help to get back into society, or who can't go back into normal work because they were injured,

This doesn't mean that I don't support immigration when done legally, but we don't have the resources to offer those who come here without jobs or housing assistance. My grandfather came here, and I have his immigration paper work. They wanted to know where he was living. Who sponsored him. What he planned to do for work. They basically wanted to make sure that he was not going to be a drain on the economy by being here. We can't do that if someone sneaks over.

bearassnekkid said:

---

. Why don't you care about people coming here illegally?

---

Where did I say I didn't "care about" people coming here illegally?

And what exactly does "care about people coming here illegally" mean to you? I get the feeling that it means being angry, ala Fox News, that people sneak across the border to work here, and not whether I care about why people would do that and or about making sure that we respect their human rights if we apprehend them and don't detain them indefinitely in really expensive for-profit facilities in such remote areas family and lawyers can't visit. Those facilitates are really expensive. Even if you want to lock them up and throw away the key for sneaking into this country, surely you don't want to pay to give them a cot and 3 hots for months, and even years, if the only purpose is to punish them.

What do you think "coming here illegally" mean? Coming to the U.S. border to seek asylum is NOT illegal. We have the discretion to grant asylum or not. But presenting yourself at the border and requesting asylum is entirely legal.

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

Florda_mike said:

---

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

---

There is some truth to the voting aspect, but perhaps republicans should start playing the long game and not concede all these future votes to the democrats. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

---

There is some truth to the voting aspect, but perhaps republicans should start playing the long game and not concede all these future votes to the democrats. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

---

Democrats want the illiterate non English speaking that'll never contribute

Those will never be republicans

I'll concede that for sure

Immigration was originally for those that could contribute to our country. Those would be republicans and democrats don't want them

Wake up people

Jinx 2 said:

---

JCWortsman said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

JCWortsman said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

Here's the thing: The Bible these people read and claim as their guide for life apparently doesn't include the parable of the good Samaritan, where the lesson is that YOU do the right thing and take care of people unable to care for and advocate for themselves regardless of what other people do or whether you believe they're untouchable or have some other convenient excuse to pass them by, ignore them or discourage them from responding to the census. And the damage has probably been done. In the unlikely event, given the general lack of respect for the rule of law that characterizes this administration, Census takers do seek to count these people, how many do you think will respond?

The churches they go to apparently never sing the old hymn, "In Christ there is no East or West" (I've pasted the lyrics in below).

The ONLY census they want to take is for the only people they believe really count--white people and conservatives. Liberals, black people, brown people, refugees, immigrants, and women and children who aren't under the care and supervision of a conservative, religious white man aren't worth any investment of taxpayer dollars (and they don't really want to be taxpayers, anyway). Everyone who isn't exactly like them and doesn't share their race and "worldview" is viewed as deserving of hate and scorn, and that's what they get on this site, thanks at least in part to a couple of posters who constantly salt this forum with 8Chan-style propaganda. It's hard to believe Sicem's moderators don't see what's going on; I can only conclude that they do and are complicit.

The level of contempt I see on a daily basis on this forum toward all of those groups not only disregards a constitution that originally gave white landowners the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and which we have extended to women and non-white citizens (a step too far beyond originalism for these guys), but also disregards the Biblical imperative of living in community and caring for orphans and widows and the sick and disabled. If you disagree with that very narrow comfort zone, you're a Samaritan--a foreigner. I hope enough Samaritans get out and vote that we elect a leader willing to do the hard work required to help us learn to live in community and stop destroying the planet. These people may oppose abortion, but they despise life in the form of actual people who aren't white and conservative and either male or under conservative male supervision, and they want to do everything they possibly can to make people who aren't like them so unwelcome they stop showing up at the borders or give up on living in states where they and their families have lived for generations and leave.

1 In Christ there is no east or west,
in him no south or north,
but one great fellowship of love
throughout the whole wide earth.
2 In Christ shall true hearts everywhere
their high communion find;
his service is the golden cord
close-binding humankind.
3 Join hands, disciples of the faith,
whate'er your race may be.
All children of the living God
are surely kin to me.
4 In Christ now meet both east and west;
in him meet south and north.
All Christly souls are one in him
throughout the whole wide earth.

---

We don't have unlimited resources though. Not all in need can be taken care of. So who do we take care of? Well according the liberals who want to say Trump is destroying the economy and living wages aren't enough to live on, we have plenty of American citizens who need help. We have soldiers who return from war with nothing who gave everything for our country... they need help too. So save me the "Good Samaritan" speech and trying to make conservatives out to be Satanists.

I am a Good Samaritan, and I want to take care of all people. But we can't. So let's take care of our tribe.

---

Who is "our tribe"?

---

American citizens. Those here legally and who have been here. Those who truly can't work and need to provide for their children (but not "don't want to work"). Those who have fought for our country and need help to get back into society, or who can't go back into normal work because they were injured,

This doesn't mean that I don't support immigration when done legally, but we don't have the resources to offer those who come here without jobs or housing assistance. My grandfather came here, and I have his immigration paper work. They wanted to know where he was living. Who sponsored him. What he planned to do for work. They basically wanted to make sure that he was not going to be a drain on the economy by being here. We can't do that if someone sneaks over.

---

On this forum, I don't see "your tribe" as "American citizens."

There are frequent threads about how black people have an "inferior culture."

"Libs" are discussed with such absolute loathing I wouldn't be surprised if someone advocated rounding us up and shooting us as a good reason for making sure guns that can fire lots of rounds remain widely available.

Muslims are defined as criminals. All of them. Let me state very explicitly that, at least in this day and time, Islam has spawned an unusually large number of fundamentalist sects that hate each other, consider people of any other branch of Islam and those of other religions infidels, and treat women like breeders and property rather than like people. I don't like Islam as a religion, and I'm happy to see that the ISIS remnants are confined to camps because their home countries don't want them back. But extremely fundamentalist branches of ANY religion--Mormonism (FLDS), Jews (numerous ultra-conservative sects), Catholics (want to eliminate contraception, a basic human right), Scientology (forcing people to work like slaves), various Covenant churches that ignore abuse of women and children in their congregations; Jehovah's Witnesses, etc etc. It's not just the religion; it's the leadership's interpretation of it and how that's implemented).

I see less explicit racism aimed at hispanics, and my guess is that's because most people posting here live in Texas, where hispanics are well-integrated into the culture.

But the only "tribe" I see people here advocating for are conservative white Republican Christians (and Mormons and others who fit the "conservative white" description).

I think we need to control entry to this country, too. But, rather than kidnapping people's kids or confining them in awful facilities and camps, why aren't we working with other countries, including Mexico, to deal with a humanitarian crisis in several countries from which people are fleeing. We are going to see more and more asylums, not fewer, as climate change creates "climate refugees," people who are flooded or droughted out of their homes. Things are either going to get uglier than they already are, or we are going to figure out how to work with other countries to deal with asylees fleeing their home countries for whatever reason. Calling them all liars isn't productive or accurate. Some may be. But they have the right to make their case.

---

I have said none of those things about "my tribe." I consider myself a pro-choice, pro-gun, pro-LGBTQ, pro-whatever religion you want to be, libertarian. Do what you want, but don't hurt people with it and don't expect me to pay for it.

We have a big problem with immigration, however we have a lot of big problems that need solutions, most of them involve those who are legal residents of the USA. While I hate that those who try to enter the country are being put into these positions, I don't have an answer to putting them in awful facilities except to say, if they are worse than where they came from, they probably should have stayed.

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

---

There is some truth to the voting aspect, but perhaps republicans should start playing the long game and not concede all these future votes to the democrats. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

---

Democrats want the illiterate non English speaking that'll never contribute

Those will never be republicans

I'll concede that for sure

Immigration was originally for those that could contribute to our country. Those would be republicans and democrats don't want them

Wake up people

---

Concede away. By the millions. Not a particularly smart strategy imo, but I'm sure the dems will be glad to take those votes if the republicans don't want them.

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

---

There is some truth to the voting aspect, but perhaps republicans should start playing the long game and not concede all these future votes to the democrats. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

---

Democrats want the illiterate non English speaking that'll never contribute

Those will never be republicans

I'll concede that for sure

Immigration was originally for those that could contribute to our country. Those would be republicans and democrats don't want them

Wake up people

---

Concede away. By the millions. Not a particularly smart strategy imo, but I'm sure the dems will be glad to take those votes if the republicans don't want them.

---

But immigrants don't vote, right?

Yes we absolutely have a ton of problems as a result of politicians just laying down any morals, and our country, in order to get re-elected

Gotta have them votes

Census OP is just a symptom

Last thing these politicians on both sides want is someone to come in and expose the politicians eff ups

Hence all the Trump hate and lack of support from his own party

Sux

Florda_mike said:

---

Yes we absolutely have a ton of problems as a result of politicians just laying down any morals, and our country, in order to get re-elected

Gotta have them votes

Census OP is just a symptom

Last thing these politicians on both sides want is someone to come in and expose the politicians eff ups

Hence all the Trump hate and lack of support from his own party

Sux

---

Agreed.

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

---

There is some truth to the voting aspect, but perhaps republicans should start playing the long game and not concede all these future votes to the democrats. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

---

Democrats want the illiterate non English speaking that'll never contribute

Those will never be republicans

I'll concede that for sure

Immigration was originally for those that could contribute to our country. Those would be republicans and democrats don't want them

Wake up people

---

Concede away. By the millions. Not a particularly smart strategy imo, but I'm sure the dems will be glad to take those votes if the republicans don't want them.

---

Go try to win an election in Deep South texas speaking English and preaching about working hard to make it, eventually, with no government assistance

See how that works

You'll see what I speak in time

On an aside, Tech just lost

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

---

There is some truth to the voting aspect, but perhaps republicans should start playing the long game and not concede all these future votes to the democrats. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

---

Democrats want the illiterate non English speaking that'll never contribute

Those will never be republicans

I'll concede that for sure

Immigration was originally for those that could contribute to our country. Those would be republicans and democrats don't want them

Wake up people

---

Concede away. By the millions. Not a particularly smart strategy imo, but I'm sure the dems will be glad to take those votes if the republicans don't want them.

---

Go try to win an election in Deep South texas speaking English and preaching about working hard to make it, eventually, with no government assistance

See how that works

You'll see what I speak in time

On an aside, Tech just lost

---

Self fulfilling prophecy. Things can change drastically.

Maybe Crash is right on not giving up on em as the democrat message is scandalous in what it does to people

Criminal actually how enslaves people to poverty and dysfunction

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

---

There is some truth to the voting aspect, but perhaps republicans should start playing the long game and not concede all these future votes to the democrats. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

---

Democrats want the illiterate non English speaking that'll never contribute

Those will never be republicans

I'll concede that for sure

Immigration was originally for those that could contribute to our country. Those would be republicans and democrats don't want them

Wake up people

---

Concede away. By the millions. Not a particularly smart strategy imo, but I'm sure the dems will be glad to take those votes if the republicans don't want them.

---

Go try to win an election in Deep South texas speaking English and preaching about working hard to make it, eventually, with no government assistance

See how that works

You'll see what I speak in time

On an aside, Tech just lost

---

Self fulfilling prophecy. Things can change drastically.

---

I pray your second sentence comes to pass

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

All about getting them some votes with democrats here and far

They can give friggin excuse after excuse about how dam self righteous they are but getting more democrat voters is all immigration is about.

Democrats are hemorrhaging "legal" Hispanics and black voters that are catching on to democrats just want us all on their plantation

Democrats need illiterates that will never speak our language and be able to support themselves here. Hence, open them borders up baby

And democrats work hard to make others illiterate and unable to support themselves

Libertarians fall for this democrat scam almost always too

---

There is some truth to the voting aspect, but perhaps republicans should start playing the long game and not concede all these future votes to the democrats. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

---

Democrats want the illiterate non English speaking that'll never contribute

Those will never be republicans

I'll concede that for sure

Immigration was originally for those that could contribute to our country. Those would be republicans and democrats don't want them

Wake up people

---

Concede away. By the millions. Not a particularly smart strategy imo, but I'm sure the dems will be glad to take those votes if the republicans don't want them.

---

Go try to win an election in Deep South texas speaking English and preaching about working hard to make it, eventually, with no government assistance

See how that works

You'll see what I speak in time

On an aside, Tech just lost

---

Self fulfilling prophecy. Things can change drastically.

---

I pray your second sentence comes to pass

---

It isn't going to happen with the status quo.

Jinx 2 said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

. Why don't you care about people coming here illegally?

---

Where did I say I didn't "care about" people coming here illegally?

And what exactly does "care about people coming here illegally" mean to you? I get the feeling that it means being angry, ala Fox News, that people sneak across the border to work here, and not whether I care about why people would do that and or about making sure that we respect their human rights if we apprehend them and don't detain them indefinitely in really expensive for-profit facilities in such remote areas family and lawyers can't visit. Those facilitates are really expensive. Even if you want to lock them up and throw away the key for sneaking into this country, surely you don't want to pay to give them a cot and 3 hots for months, and even years, if the only purpose is to punish them.

What do you think "coming here illegally" mean? Coming to the U.S. border to seek asylum is NOT illegal. We have the discretion to grant asylum or not. But presenting yourself at the border and requesting asylum is entirely legal.

---

Huh? I wasn't talking to you. I responded to and quoted BBL. But I'll be happy to respond to your post as well.

Crash Davis said:

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bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

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GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

First, for the love of everything holy, PLEASE stop using the uber lame excuse of "asylum." It is an outright lie, everyone knows it, and it makes you and anyone else who uses it look like a complete IDIOT to any sane people trying to discuss this topic. I am embarrassed for anyone who keeps trying play this moronic card and expects anyone to take them seriously. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows that "asylum" is not why people are entering our country ILLEGALLY. Just stop. It insults us both.

People aren't streaming over our borders illegally to escape tyranny and government oppression. They're coming here to avail themselves of a booming economy, good schools, good hospitals, and all the other great things about America. There is a system in place for anyone who wants to come be a citizen of the USA. I am totally fine with any person who wants to come here and become an American, and does so in a legal fashion. I'm not ok with people sneaking in. I have NO idea why in the world you apparently are. It is mind boggling.

Second, I am fine with counting ALL people, including those who have come here illegally. The constitution says to count all people, so great, let's do it. I'd also like to know which people are citizens and which ones aren't. The constitution doesn't say we aren't allowed to know that. I have no idea why you wouldn't want to know that, other than the reason you are feigning denial of. So give me another one. Why don't you care about people coming here illegally?

---

Not really. At least not much of one. If you are a poor person from another country that wants to come chase the American dream, your odds of doing so through legal means are laughable. Might as well give up, because the odds are heavily stacked against that dream ever coming to fruition.

You are against illegal immigration and that is fine by me, but let's be honest about it. The people that are coming into the country illegally have almost no chance of doing it "the right way."

---

Agree to disagree. If you really want to become a citizen of the U.S., you go through the process. Get a green card, then fill out your naturalization application after the appropriate time. If you aren't willing or able to do those basic things, you don't get to be a citizen. The process is in place for a reason. Follow it. Don't decide "nah, I'll just break the law and sneak in" and then expect me to be fine with it. I am absolutely baffled at people who are.

CRash: "This isn't really an agree to disagree situation"

Of course it is. You said the illegals entering the country could not do it legally.

I and others disagree.

Crash: " I said their odds of gaining citizenship through legal means are extraordinarily low. That is the truth. "

And others disagree. Your opinion is not de facto "truth".

Jinx 2 said:

---

JCWortsman said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

JCWortsman said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

Here's the thing: The Bible these people read and claim as their guide for life apparently doesn't include the parable of the good Samaritan, where the lesson is that YOU do the right thing and take care of people unable to care for and advocate for themselves regardless of what other people do or whether you believe they're untouchable or have some other convenient excuse to pass them by, ignore them or discourage them from responding to the census. And the damage has probably been done. In the unlikely event, given the general lack of respect for the rule of law that characterizes this administration, Census takers do seek to count these people, how many do you think will respond?

The churches they go to apparently never sing the old hymn, "In Christ there is no East or West" (I've pasted the lyrics in below).

The ONLY census they want to take is for the only people they believe really count--white people and conservatives. Liberals, black people, brown people, refugees, immigrants, and women and children who aren't under the care and supervision of a conservative, religious white man aren't worth any investment of taxpayer dollars (and they don't really want to be taxpayers, anyway). Everyone who isn't exactly like them and doesn't share their race and "worldview" is viewed as deserving of hate and scorn, and that's what they get on this site, thanks at least in part to a couple of posters who constantly salt this forum with 8Chan-style propaganda. It's hard to believe Sicem's moderators don't see what's going on; I can only conclude that they do and are complicit.

The level of contempt I see on a daily basis on this forum toward all of those groups not only disregards a constitution that originally gave white landowners the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and which we have extended to women and non-white citizens (a step too far beyond originalism for these guys), but also disregards the Biblical imperative of living in community and caring for orphans and widows and the sick and disabled. If you disagree with that very narrow comfort zone, you're a Samaritan--a foreigner. I hope enough Samaritans get out and vote that we elect a leader willing to do the hard work required to help us learn to live in community and stop destroying the planet. These people may oppose abortion, but they despise life in the form of actual people who aren't white and conservative and either male or under conservative male supervision, and they want to do everything they possibly can to make people who aren't like them so unwelcome they stop showing up at the borders or give up on living in states where they and their families have lived for generations and leave.

1 In Christ there is no east or west,
in him no south or north,
but one great fellowship of love
throughout the whole wide earth.
2 In Christ shall true hearts everywhere
their high communion find;
his service is the golden cord
close-binding humankind.
3 Join hands, disciples of the faith,
whate'er your race may be.
All children of the living God
are surely kin to me.
4 In Christ now meet both east and west;
in him meet south and north.
All Christly souls are one in him
throughout the whole wide earth.

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We don't have unlimited resources though. Not all in need can be taken care of. So who do we take care of? Well according the liberals who want to say Trump is destroying the economy and living wages aren't enough to live on, we have plenty of American citizens who need help. We have soldiers who return from war with nothing who gave everything for our country... they need help too. So save me the "Good Samaritan" speech and trying to make conservatives out to be Satanists.

I am a Good Samaritan, and I want to take care of all people. But we can't. So let's take care of our tribe.

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Who is "our tribe"?

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American citizens. Those here legally and who have been here. Those who truly can't work and need to provide for their children (but not "don't want to work"). Those who have fought for our country and need help to get back into society, or who can't go back into normal work because they were injured,

This doesn't mean that I don't support immigration when done legally, but we don't have the resources to offer those who come here without jobs or housing assistance. My grandfather came here, and I have his immigration paper work. They wanted to know where he was living. Who sponsored him. What he planned to do for work. They basically wanted to make sure that he was not going to be a drain on the economy by being here. We can't do that if someone sneaks over.

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On this forum, I don't see "your tribe" as "American citizens."

There are frequent threads about how black people have an "inferior culture."

"Libs" are discussed with such absolute loathing I wouldn't be surprised if someone advocated rounding us up and shooting us as a good reason for making sure guns that can fire lots of rounds remain widely available.

Muslims are defined as criminals. All of them. Let me state very explicitly that, at least in this day and time, Islam has spawned an unusually large number of fundamentalist sects that hate each other, consider people of any other branch of Islam and those of other religions infidels, and treat women like breeders and property rather than like people. I don't like Islam as a religion, and I'm happy to see that the ISIS remnants are confined to camps because their home countries don't want them back. But extremely fundamentalist branches of ANY religion--Mormonism (FLDS), Jews (numerous ultra-conservative sects), Catholics (want to eliminate contraception, a basic human right), Scientology (forcing people to work like slaves), various Covenant churches that ignore abuse of women and children in their congregations; Jehovah's Witnesses, etc etc. It's never just the religion; it's the leadership's interpretation of it and how that's implemented in the treatment of church members and others.

I see less explicit racism aimed at hispanics, and my guess is that's because most people posting here live in Texas, where hispanics are well-integrated into the culture.

But the only "tribe" I see people here advocating for are conservative white Republican Christians (and Mormons and others who fit the "conservative white" description.

I think we need to control entry to this country, too. But, rather than kidnapping people's kids or confining them in awful facilities and camps, why aren't we working with other countries, including Mexico, to deal with a humanitarian crisis in several countries from which people are fleeing. We are going to see more and more asylees, not fewer, as climate change creates "climate refugees," people who are flooded or droughted out of their homes. Things are either going to get uglier than they already are, or we are going to figure out how to work with other countries to deal with asylees fleeing their home countries for whatever reason. Calling them all liars isn't productive or accurate. Some may be. But they have the right to make their case.

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"Climate refugees"??? Your stuff is nuts, but this beats it all. I'm sure glad to hear that climate change ends at our border. Whew!

Yes, it's your opinion, which is fine. But no, I am not obliged to go find evidence you say exists which may or may not say what you claim.

Again your opinion is not fact just because you like it.

Oldbear83 said:

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Yes, it's your opinion, which is fine. But no, I am not obliged to go find evidence you say exists which may or may not say what you claim.

Again your opinion is not fact just because you like it.

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LMAO