ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Kyle said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Kyle said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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We are not basing our policy on different metrics for measuring death rates. Approximately 1% is an estimate of the total infection fatality rate, not the diagnosed case fatality rate.

http://theconversation.com/the-coronavirus-looks-less-deadly-than-first-reported-but-its-definitely-not-just-a-flu-133526

---

That link still uses the 35 million for flu infections when there weren't 35 million confirmed cases of flu. Under the metrics they advocate for (IFR), flu would still have a higher death rate by a multiple factor. No one has an assessment of how many actual cases of C-19 are out there, from South Korea to the US. One thing that is being borne out is fortunately it's a comparatively mild virus (mortality) by any standard of measure.

---

I'm not sure that's right. CDC estimates to-date there have been 38 million cases of the flu as well as 390K hospitalizations and 23K deaths. Wouldn't that 38M be the denominator of the IFR? The number of positive tests was much lower. Interestingly, if you look at the CDC site, its data shows 232,654 cases of positive flu tests for A&B with an estimated annual mortality of 23,000. So by CFR, that would put its mortality rate at 10%, which seems really high.

---

That's my exact point. If we measured flu mortality similar to how we're doing C-19, its mortality would look horrible. For example, if one were to estimate that right now 1 million people in the US have or had C-19, the current mortality rate would be .02%. If we took the number of hospitalizations from the flu and divided by deaths it would still have a high mortality. The missing number in this equation is an estimate of existing and past infections from C-19 since it was first confirmed in January.

---

I think maybe you flipped IFR and CFR, which led to the confusion.

---

The confusion is there is no similar data point for IFR for C-19 as there is with the flu which has the biggest variant impact. The 38 million estimate for the flu is enormous from a ratio impact. The IFR on C-19 is only using known cases. But I think we'd all agree that there are thousands if not 10's or 100's of thousands of C-19 cases that haven't been found or were never logged as official as the symptoms were beaten/mild.

Even today due to the lack of available testing most people are being told to quarantine and only elevate if serious symptoms start to manifest. Many never experience them or require hospitalization so they never become a "stat" or are tested.

---

Basing an IFR only on known cases is a contradiction in terms. Can you show me where anyone is doing that?

---

You're link. It has no corresponding estimates of non verified infections. It simply parrots something from the cruise ship and runs with 1%.

EDIT: For Covid-19 that is.

---

Click the link:

Quote:

---

This statistic is harder to calculate, as it requires estimating the number of undetected infections. The Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) is the number of deaths divided by the true number of infections (including both confirmed and undiagnosed cases). One estimate of the IFR for COVID-19 puts this figure at 1%, and some new data suggests this is credible.

---

---

I did and it's incomparable. Their IFR factor is .94% for Covid-19 whereas the flu in comparison is 13%. I also think they need to update their models with new data. Still using older China data.

---

I meant the link in the quote. Where do you get an IFR of 13% for the flu?

---

That's the percentage of people estimated to be infected by the flu as a percentage of US population.

---

So, not an IFR and not the comparable number.

---

That number is used in the IFR.

---

IFR = fatalities/estimated cases. It doesn't have anything to do with percentage of the population.

Kyle said:

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jupiter said:

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Too bad our government was focused on impeachment pens.

---

Anyone ever test those pens, to make sure they were sanitary?

Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Kyle said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Kyle said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We are not basing our policy on different metrics for measuring death rates. Approximately 1% is an estimate of the total infection fatality rate, not the diagnosed case fatality rate.

http://theconversation.com/the-coronavirus-looks-less-deadly-than-first-reported-but-its-definitely-not-just-a-flu-133526

---

That link still uses the 35 million for flu infections when there weren't 35 million confirmed cases of flu. Under the metrics they advocate for (IFR), flu would still have a higher death rate by a multiple factor. No one has an assessment of how many actual cases of C-19 are out there, from South Korea to the US. One thing that is being borne out is fortunately it's a comparatively mild virus (mortality) by any standard of measure.

---

I'm not sure that's right. CDC estimates to-date there have been 38 million cases of the flu as well as 390K hospitalizations and 23K deaths. Wouldn't that 38M be the denominator of the IFR? The number of positive tests was much lower. Interestingly, if you look at the CDC site, its data shows 232,654 cases of positive flu tests for A&B with an estimated annual mortality of 23,000. So by CFR, that would put its mortality rate at 10%, which seems really high.

---

That's my exact point. If we measured flu mortality similar to how we're doing C-19, its mortality would look horrible. For example, if one were to estimate that right now 1 million people in the US have or had C-19, the current mortality rate would be .02%. If we took the number of hospitalizations from the flu and divided by deaths it would still have a high mortality. The missing number in this equation is an estimate of existing and past infections from C-19 since it was first confirmed in January.

---

I think maybe you flipped IFR and CFR, which led to the confusion.

---

The confusion is there is no similar data point for IFR for C-19 as there is with the flu which has the biggest variant impact. The 38 million estimate for the flu is enormous from a ratio impact. The IFR on C-19 is only using known cases. But I think we'd all agree that there are thousands if not 10's or 100's of thousands of C-19 cases that haven't been found or were never logged as official as the symptoms were beaten/mild.

Even today due to the lack of available testing most people are being told to quarantine and only elevate if serious symptoms start to manifest. Many never experience them or require hospitalization so they never become a "stat" or are tested.

---

Basing an IFR only on known cases is a contradiction in terms. Can you show me where anyone is doing that?

---

You're link. It has no corresponding estimates of non verified infections. It simply parrots something from the cruise ship and runs with 1%.

EDIT: For Covid-19 that is.

---

Click the link:

Quote:

---

This statistic is harder to calculate, as it requires estimating the number of undetected infections. The Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) is the number of deaths divided by the true number of infections (including both confirmed and undiagnosed cases). One estimate of the IFR for COVID-19 puts this figure at 1%, and some new data suggests this is credible.

---

---

I did and it's incomparable. Their IFR factor is .94% for Covid-19 whereas the flu in comparison is 13%. I also think they need to update their models with new data. Still using older China data.

---

I meant the link in the quote. Where do you get an IFR of 13% for the flu?

---

That's the percentage of people estimated to be infected by the flu as a percentage of US population.

---

So, not an IFR and not the comparable number.

---

That number is used in the IFR.

---

IFR = fatalities/estimated cases. It doesn't have anything to do with percentage of the population.

---

13% = the number of estimates cases. 38 million.

Bearitto said:

---

quash said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is trying into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's important to call a thing by its correct name. Chinese virus or Wuhan virus are correct. It's important to not advance communist Chinese propaganda and cover up Chinese malfeasance that led to this outbreak. The left continues working exceptionally hard on behalf of the Chinese communist party.

---

This thing is a disease. There are conventions for naming diseases. If you really think it is important to use a correct name please set out which convention you and the president are following.

---

Origin or attributable origin.

Here are 17 other diseases named after populations or places of origin. Hope this helps you understand.

West Nile Virus
Named after the West Nile District of Uganda discovered in 1937.

Guinea Worm
Named by European explorers for the Guinea coast of West Africa in the 1600s.

Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Named after the mountain range spreading across western North America first recognized first in 1896 in Idaho.

Lyme Disease
Named after a large outbreak of the disease occurred in Lyme and Old Lyme, Connecticut in the 1970s.

Ross River Fever
Named after a mosquito found to cause the disease in the Ross River of Queensland, Australia by the 1960s. The first major outbreak occurred in 1928.

Omsk Hemorrhagic Fever
Named after its 1940s discovery in Omsk, Russia.

Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever
Named in 1976 for the Ebola River in Zaire located in central Africa.

Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)
Also known as "camel flu," MERS was first reported in Saudi Arabia in 2012 and all cases are linked to those who traveled to the Middle Eastern peninsula.

Valley Fever
Valley Fever earned its nickname from a 1930s outbreak San Joaquin Valley of California, though its first case came from Argentina.

Marburg Virus Disease
Named after Marburg, Germany in 1967.

Norovirus
Named after Norwalk, Ohio after an outbreak in 1968.

Zika Fever
First discovered in 1947 and named after the Zika Forest in Uganda.

Japanese Encephalitis
Named after its first case in Japan in 1871.

German Measles
Named after the German doctors who first described it in the 18th century. The disease is also sometimes referred to as "Rubella."

Spanish Flu
While the true origins of the Spanish Flu remain unknown, the disease earned its name after Spain began to report deaths from the flu in its newspapers.

Lassa Fever
Named after the being found in Lassa, Nigeria in 1969.

Legionnaire's Disease
Named in 1976 following an outbreak of people contracting the lung infection after attending an American Legion convention in Philadelphia.

---

All precede the current convention. But if it makes you feel patriotic power on.

"current convention" being "hey how can we use this against Trump", but carry on ...

Oldbear83 said:

---

"current convention" being "hey how can we use this against Trump", but carry on ...

---

The current convention set the proper name. Trump used it. Then he went to Chinese virus.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"current convention" being "hey how can we use this against Trump", but carry on ...

---

The current convention set the proper name. Trump used it. Then he went to Chinese virus.

---

Chinese virus is accurate. Sorry you have trouble accepting that fact.

quash said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

quash said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is trying into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's important to call a thing by its correct name. Chinese virus or Wuhan virus are correct. It's important to not advance communist Chinese propaganda and cover up Chinese malfeasance that led to this outbreak. The left continues working exceptionally hard on behalf of the Chinese communist party.

---

This thing is a disease. There are conventions for naming diseases. If you really think it is important to use a correct name please set out which convention you and the president are following.

---

Origin or attributable origin.

Here are 17 other diseases named after populations or places of origin. Hope this helps you understand.

West Nile Virus
Named after the West Nile District of Uganda discovered in 1937.

Guinea Worm
Named by European explorers for the Guinea coast of West Africa in the 1600s.

Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Named after the mountain range spreading across western North America first recognized first in 1896 in Idaho.

Lyme Disease
Named after a large outbreak of the disease occurred in Lyme and Old Lyme, Connecticut in the 1970s.

Ross River Fever
Named after a mosquito found to cause the disease in the Ross River of Queensland, Australia by the 1960s. The first major outbreak occurred in 1928.

Omsk Hemorrhagic Fever
Named after its 1940s discovery in Omsk, Russia.

Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever
Named in 1976 for the Ebola River in Zaire located in central Africa.

Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)
Also known as "camel flu," MERS was first reported in Saudi Arabia in 2012 and all cases are linked to those who traveled to the Middle Eastern peninsula.

Valley Fever
Valley Fever earned its nickname from a 1930s outbreak San Joaquin Valley of California, though its first case came from Argentina.

Marburg Virus Disease
Named after Marburg, Germany in 1967.

Norovirus
Named after Norwalk, Ohio after an outbreak in 1968.

Zika Fever
First discovered in 1947 and named after the Zika Forest in Uganda.

Japanese Encephalitis
Named after its first case in Japan in 1871.

German Measles
Named after the German doctors who first described it in the 18th century. The disease is also sometimes referred to as "Rubella."

Spanish Flu
While the true origins of the Spanish Flu remain unknown, the disease earned its name after Spain began to report deaths from the flu in its newspapers.

Lassa Fever
Named after the being found in Lassa, Nigeria in 1969.

Legionnaire's Disease
Named in 1976 following an outbreak of people contracting the lung infection after attending an American Legion convention in Philadelphia.

---

All precede the current convention. But if it makes you feel patriotic power on.

---

Lol! Ok. It's a good thing UN politicians 'discovered' this new convention in 2015 and decided to mandate the change to stop "negative impacts by stigmatizing certain communities or economic sectors". This is yet another political issue the UN is wrong about. China owns this virus and should be punished for it in every way possible. If the UN thinks the name is stigmatizing, great. Rational adults will stick with the tried and true (and effective) naming convention that isn't 5 minutes old and created by the organization that said the Chinese Wuhan virus was not a global emergency and there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission outside China, while China was on fire. Or overwhelmingly praised Iran in November for its human rights record while it was in the midst of a brutal political crackdown on free speech. The UN makes only political decisions. The US is sovereign and shouldn't abide by UN political decisions.

Happy to help you understand what rational people already knew.

Guy ate a bat to start the virus. Call it the Ozzy Virus.

quash said:

---

Guy ate a bat to start the virus. Call it the Ozzy Virus.

---

LOL. Genius. I like Beer Virus too. But Kung Flu is really funny.

Kyle said:

---

quash said:

---

Guy ate a bat to start the virus. Call it the Ozzy Virus.

---

LOL. Genius. I like Beer Virus too. But Kung Flu is really funny.

---

I'm glad you see levity in all of this. Typical response on this board.

Kyle said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

tommie said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is turning into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's messaging. Trump has to make sure his supporters know that it's not his fault. That will not change that it is his responsibility.

His supporters are especially vulnerable because of his delayed action.

---

The adults are focused on solutions. The children are focusing on how to blame someone.

---

.....and thank heaven that Trump and his administration are the adults focusing on solutions.

---

When they're not blaming China, Obama or ripping Europe's response.

The folks on both sides of this stupid debate need to start acting like adults and stop politicizing a pandemic. And that includes our president, who can't get through one freaking press conference without starting/prolonging one childish spat or another.

China's cover-up in the early stages of the COVID-19 outbreak is a big deal, without question. And it needs to be dealt with appropriately at the appropriate time. But the top priority now is slowing the spread in our own country. And rants about China, Europe and the press only serve to distract from that.

---

I agree with you 100%. However, this issue follows the usual pattern:
1. Unquestionably this virus was called the "Chinese Coronavirus" or "Wuhan Virus" or somesuch
2. A few woke wingnuts started to lose their mind and call it racism, so the broader Left picked up these Talking Points
3. The Right went, "huh?" and many reacted to the reaction
4. Now, the thread of "why are we worried about the name when millions are dying in the streets?"

Exactly. I agree with you. Why is NYT, CNN, WaPo, etc. spending one second worried about calling it the Chinese or Wuhan anything.

---

Why am I worried? Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people.
45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.

Waco1947 said:

---

Why am I worried? Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people.
45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.

---

Leave it to Waco to spew lies and malice, then pretend he is fighting against same.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Why am I worried? Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people.
45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.

---

Leave it to Waco to spew lies and malice, then pretend he is fighting against same.

---

Break it down for me - which are the lies and why:
1. Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people..Fact actual Asians have beat for being in Asia.
2. 45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Fact "China Virus" is a dog whistle. Ask any Asian American
3, Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.Fact he has done it his whole Campaign and Presidency
Puerto Rico, Pocahontas epitaph, Chancellorsville's "Good people on both sides"
Feel free to do some research like with minority community
I welcome your rational reply

chuckle

Yeah 83

'Break it down ' for old Waco47. Give him a reason to stay awake for an hour or two . Jello time is a long way off .

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Why am I worried? Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people.
45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.

---

Leave it to Waco to spew lies and malice, then pretend he is fighting against same.

---

Break it down for me - which are the lies and why:
1. Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people..Fact actual Asians have beat for being in Asia.
2. 45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Fact "China Virus" is a dog whistle. Ask any Asian American
3, Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.Fact he has done it his whole Campaign and Presidency
Puerto Rico, Pocahontas epitaph, Chancellorsville's "Good people on both sides"
Feel free to do some research like with minority community
I welcome your rational reply

---

1. I understand English may not be your first language. But it is hard to respond when your posts literally make no sense in the language.
2. Yeah, no. ****** - everyone called it Wuhan Virus or Chinese Coronavirus until you ******s stared politicizing a public health crisis.
3. Yeah, a bunch of Nigerians attacking Asians on cold Chicago nights in MAGA hats is the sum of the consequences.

You ****** continues to repeat lies - you have no desire to have an honest conversation because you're an unethical, soulless liar who believes killing babies is the nation's top priority.

blackie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

quash said:

---

Guy ate a bat to start the virus. Call it the Ozzy Virus.

---

LOL. Genius. I like Beer Virus too. But Kung Flu is really funny.

---

I'm glad you see levity in all of this. Typical response on this board.

---

The NoZe taught us that nothing is off limits.

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Why am I worried? Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people.
45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.

---

Leave it to Waco to spew lies and malice, then pretend he is fighting against same.

---

Break it down for me - which are the lies and why:
1. Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people..Fact actual Asians have beat for being in Asia.
2. 45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Fact "China Virus" is a dog whistle. Ask any Asian American
3, Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.Fact he has done it his whole Campaign and Presidency
Puerto Rico, Pocahontas epitaph, Chancellorsville's "Good people on both sides"
Feel free to do some research like with minority community
I welcome your rational reply

---

Well at least liberals don't use "dog whistle", they are just straight up racist and Waco47 couldn't give a ****.

FFS, for the last time about the comments made about "Chancelorsville" (wherever the F, that is)

Quote:

---

"Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Why am I worried? Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people.
45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.

---

Leave it to Waco to spew lies and malice, then pretend he is fighting against same.

---

Break it down for me - which are the lies and why:
1. Because the racist idiots hear 45 and go do stupid stuff like beat people..Fact actual Asians have beat for being in Asia.
2. 45 continues to divide this country with his dog whistle comments. Fact "China Virus" is a dog whistle. Ask any Asian American
3, Simple declarations of "I am not racist" belie the reality. His words have consequences - intended or not
45 doesn't have to admit racism but he should at least watch his tongue.Fact he has done it his whole Campaign and Presidency
Puerto Rico, Pocahontas epitaph, Chancellorsville's "Good people on both sides"
Feel free to do some research like with minority community
I welcome your rational reply

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1. Stop throwing the word "racist" every time you don't like someone, it's not truthful and makes you look ignorant.

2. The impeachment was a blatant attempt to divide this country on false charges, and is similar to your moral failure in point 1

3. No one is "racist" just because you say so. See point 1

4. Chewing on Trump's statements out of context, while ignoring far worse from the Left makes you quite a hypocrite, Waco.

5. I suppose you feel the need to vent, but you are not making a case for anything but to confirm your own malice and delusion, Waco.

Yes, my answers are rational, and sadly necessary in this thread.

You're going to kill the old ****** if he has to access her brain.

So, who is willing to own it:
1. 200 people dead from Kung Flu (20K / year of the flu; 200 die / day on roads)
2. Economy destroyed - millions will lost everything

So, who is willing to say it is worth it? Is the Swamp that important to you?

Kyle said:

---

So, who is willing to own it:
1. 200 people dead from Kung Flu (20K / year of the flu; 200 die / day on roads)
2. Economy destroyed - millions will lost everything

So, who is willing to say it is worth it? Is the Swamp that important to you?

---

The death toll is more than double that and, sadly, will grow considerably in the coming weeks.

And by virtually all projections, the numbers would have been absolutely catastrophic if we had not acted in the manner we did.

You can keep denying it, but the experts have spoken and they're not on your side. The same people who two weeks ago were saying, "There are only 500 cases here, I don't know why we're all freaking out," just keep moving the goalposts as our case and death numbers continue their exponential rise. At some point, you'll have no choice but to admit you've been a science-denying doofus. The longer you wait, the more silly you'll look when it happens.

bear2be2 said:

---

Kyle said:

---

So, who is willing to own it:
1. 200 people dead from Kung Flu (20K / year of the flu; 200 die / day on roads)
2. Economy destroyed - millions will lost everything

So, who is willing to say it is worth it? Is the Swamp that important to you?

---

The death toll is more than double that and, sadly, will grow considerably in the coming weeks.

And by virtually all projections, the numbers would have been absolutely catastrophic if we had not acted in the manner we did.

You can keep denying it, but the experts have spoken and they're not on your side. The same people who two weeks ago were saying, "There are only 500 cases here, I don't know why we're all freaking out," just keep moving the goalposts as our case and death numbers continue to their exponential rise. At some point, you'll have no choice but to admit you've been a science-denying doofus. The longer you wait, the more silly you'll look when it happens.

---

He has no choice but to shut up eventually. Every day that goes by he looks a little bit dumber. He must've missed that week of math class where they taught exponents.

Oldbear83 said:

---

"current convention" being "hey how can we use this against Trump", but carry on ...

---

Yep. CNN is on a continual loop against our own administration.

This has been completely politicised.


Just heard the City Administrator from Dallas saying that if the entire state doesn't totally shut down, 450,000 Texans will die from this.

That is simply sensationalism. Taking worse than the worse case scenario and presenting it as fact as a political weapon.

Shameful.

Have common sense. Stay away from people if possible. Don't gather around large crowds of people.

Shutting down a small business such as a telemarketing firm is senseless, They don't meet the public.

While at the same time there are 300 people freely moving around a Home Depot and the Super Kroger spreading this with virtually no limit.

Close restaurants and churchs and exercise facilities and bars and public gathering places. There is no need to shut down a small office of 5 people who are all in their own office well over 6 feet from each other that doesn't open it's doors.

Kyle said:

---

So, who is willing to own it:
1. 200 people dead from Kung Flu (20K / year of the flu; 200 die / day on roads)
2. Economy destroyed - millions will lost everything

So, who is willing to say it is worth it? Is the Swamp that important to you?

---

80,000 died of the flu in 2018.

The CDC models that are scaring the hell out of everyone are running with an estimate that 40%-70% of Americans will be infected. On the low end that's ~150 million people. That's over 3 times the flu. We've had the virus around for 2 months. If we took it out another 5 or 6 months in order to get there we would need a pace of 1-1.2 MILLION new infections a day for 5-6 months. Even if we said for every positive test there are another 10 untested infected, we'd still be way behind being close to the CDC estimates.

Exponent math doesn't operate in a vacuum. It is tempered by variant influence and multi-event probability. It is also one thing to exponent from 1,000 to 100,000, it's completely another to go from 100,000 to 100 million.

I give Andrew Cuomo credit, he is a pretty sensible voice in this thing, that with NYC being by far the worst hit out there.

Of course the worst incidents are where people are crammed in like sardines such as NYC. And even the governor there is being sensible.

When I heard the Dallas guy this morning trying to spread hysteria, that is shameful.

Canada2017 said:

---

chuckle

Yeah 83

'Break it down ' for old Waco47. Give him a reason to stay awake for an hour or two . Jello time is a long way off .

---

That's all you got? Name calling -and demeaning? You got nothing. You're a coward not to post a rational argument that is open to criticism. I put out there for your verbal abuse. You are afraid.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

I give Andrew Cuomo credit, he is a pretty sensible voice in this thing, that with NYC being by far the worst hit out there.

Of course the worst incidents are where people are crammed in like sardines such as NYC. And even the governor there is being sensible.

When I heard the Dallas guy this morning trying to spread hysteria, that is shameful.

---

Cuomo is doing a good job.

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

chuckle

Yeah 83

'Break it down ' for old Waco47. Give him a reason to stay awake for an hour or two . Jello time is a long way off .

---

That's all you got? Name calling -and demeaning? You got nothing. You're a coward not to post a rational argument that is open to criticism. I put out there for your verbal abuse. You are afraid.

---

chuckle

Absolutely scared out to death.

Now ask your caregiver to give you that 'special' green pill so you wont wet yourself again tonight.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"current convention" being "hey how can we use this against Trump", but carry on ...

---

Yep. CNN is on a continual loop against our own administration.

This has been completely politicised.


Just heard the City Administrator from Dallas saying that if the entire state doesn't totally shut down, 450,000 Texans will die from this.

That is simply sensationalism. Taking worse than the worse case scenario and presenting it as fact as a political weapon.

Shameful.

Have common sense. Stay away from people if possible. Don't gather around large crowds of people.

Shutting down a small business such as a telemarketing firm is senseless, They don't meet the public.

While at the same time there are 300 people freely moving around a Home Depot and the Super Kroger spreading this with virtually no limit.

Close restaurants and churchs and exercise facilities and bars and public gathering places. There is no need to shut down a small office of 5 people who are all in their own office well over 6 feet from each other that doesn't open it's doors.

---

"Common sense is not so common."
Voltaire

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

Kyle said:

---

So far, 97 people have died. Each day, 102 people die in automobile accidents.

We're at least 15,000 deaths away from reaching H1N1 totals, and 20,000 away from annual influenza totals.

Was it worth it to destroy tens of millions of lives as well as our economy?

Was it worth it to try and win an election?

What will put a bigger strain on health care, 5,000 Wuhan Virus cases or a 20% unemployment rate?

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I thought Republicans were the "pro-life" party?