Sam Lowry said:

---

You're smarter than this.

---

I do not think you understand what is exponential growth. For this week, new cases reported (re-post) by the CDC:
3/23 - 18,185
3/25 - 10,779
3/26 - 10,270
3/26 - 13, 987

It is not subjective. Do some research on exponential growth, and I think it will make sense. Not being sarcastic, I just don't think you understand the concept. It is growing but not exponentially.

tommie said:

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I'm told the proper measure is deaths. Experts say that increase in positive results are related to increase in testing.

For example. If I test 10 today and get 3 positives and 20 tomorrow with 6 positives, that doesn't properly show the rate of growth. It shows increase in testing.

3 deaths today and 6 tomorrow better represents the growth.

---

I agree but it's more than that.

So far about 1046 deaths in the US.

This has gone on pretty unabated for about a month.

To match the 1918-19 Flu which everybody says this matches, there would be about 3.5 million deaths to match the per capita death rate.


So either this doesn't really match the 1918-19 Flu as everybody is saying, or we as a nation are doing a damned good job controlling it so far.

Maybe the talking heads quit condemning the response and realize if this really is the 1918-19 level version, we are doing an incredible job.

Considering just regular Flu has killed 4000 a week in the recent past, we are off the charts doing a good job, if in fact this is the same level as the 1918 version.

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

You're smarter than this.

---

I do not think you understand what is exponential growth. For this week, new cases reported (re-post) by the CDC:
3/23 - 18,185
3/25 - 10,779
3/26 - 10,270
3/26 - 13, 987

It is not subjective. Do some research on exponential growth, and I think it will make sense. Not being sarcastic, I just don't think you understand the concept. It is growing but not exponentially.

---

Look at the numbers from 2/15 to 2/18 and see what they tell you.

That's the problem with cherry-picking.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

You're smarter than this.

---

I do not think you understand what is exponential growth. For this week, new cases reported (re-post) by the CDC:
3/23 - 18,185
3/25 - 10,779
3/26 - 10,270
3/26 - 13, 987

It is not subjective. Do some research on exponential growth, and I think it will make sense. Not being sarcastic, I just don't think you understand the concept. It is growing but not exponentially.

---

Look at the numbers from 2/15 to 2/18 and see what they tell you.

That's the problem with cherry-picking.

---

Now that is a problem with grammar. The virus WAS growing exponentially. Maybe I mis-read, but I believe you posted it IS growing exponentially. Math is objective - it is not debatable. Just do some research on exponential growth, and I think it will make more sense.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

tommie said:

---

I'm told the proper measure is deaths. Experts say that increase in positive results are related to increase in testing.

For example. If I test 10 today and get 3 positives and 20 tomorrow with 6 positives, that doesn't properly show the rate of growth. It shows increase in testing.

3 deaths today and 6 tomorrow better represents the growth.

---

I agree but it's more than that.

So far about 1046 deaths in the US.

This has gone on pretty unabated for about a month.

To match the 1918-19 Flu which everybody says this matches, there would be about 3.5 million deaths to match the per capita death rate.


So either this doesn't really match the 1918-19 Flu as everybody is saying, or we as a nation are doing a damned good job controlling it so far.

Maybe the talking heads quit condemning the response and realize if this really is the 1918-19 level version, we are doing an incredible job.

Considering just regular Flu has killed 4000 a week in the recent past, we are off the charts doing a good job, if in fact this is the same level as the 1918 version.

---

We don't know the upper limit. My hope is we can get this under control quickly and modern medicine Can keep us way south of 20K

quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Just because it gets an entry in wikipedia, does not change the actual definition of 'exponential'

---

x to the power of n is an exponent. And if you look at history, virus growth is parabolic, not exponential.

---

It is often exponential at first. It depends largely on the amount of intervention (a.k.a. "panic and hysteria") applied to the situation early on. The best you can say in this case is that if it isn't exponential, it's close enough that it's hard for most experts to tell the difference.

---

Absolute BS. "Exponential" does not mean "at first". Geometric expansion could be called "exponential" using words that carelessly.

At some point it's going to be obvious that dozens of millions of people in the US will be exposed to C-19, and we'll see maybe 2 million cases. That's serious of course, but it means less than one percent of the population will contract the disease.

When people understand that A) the virus will infect millions, but also B) most Americans won't be infected, nor will someone in their family. That will create pressure for Congress to come up with a plan which protects against spread of the virus, but puts people back to work and backs off on restrictions.

Frankly, I don't see anyone right now smart enough to figure out a plan which does both of those goals.

---

S. Korea implemented that plan upfront: test, quarantine the positives and test their contacts. Our systemic failure has been testing.

---

I disagree. Korea has a much smaller population, so we should be compared to other large populations who are also highly mobile.

---

Scale doesn't change the solution. And Koreans are highly mobile.

---

Scale matters. Locking down a city which is compliant by nature and one of a few of any size is much easier than the same effort here.

Cherry-picking what you want to consider is no way to find valid answers.

---

Asian societies are far more conformist while Western culture is far more individualistic. I made that point on this board weeks ago.

You wanted a plan, I gave you one, plus a successful example. Test, track, quarantine.

If you've got a better plan to meet your two criteria post up.

---

I like the pool testing, we are already tracking but need an established method to make sure everyone is using the same way of counting, and quarantine of patients and those they have contacted is also already in place.

The focus now should be what we do during late spring/early summer. If we are going to really beat this, a sound plan for prevention beyond hoping for a vaccine or just shutting down the country needs to be built.

But thanks for your plan. I just think we are already doing most of that,

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

You're smarter than this.

---

I do not think you understand what is exponential growth. For this week, new cases reported (re-post) by the CDC:
3/23 - 18,185
3/25 - 10,779
3/26 - 10,270
3/26 - 13, 987

It is not subjective. Do some research on exponential growth, and I think it will make sense. Not being sarcastic, I just don't think you understand the concept. It is growing but not exponentially.

---

Look at the numbers from 2/15 to 2/18 and see what they tell you.

That's the problem with cherry-picking.

---

Now that is a problem with grammar. The virus WAS growing exponentially. Maybe I mis-read, but I believe you posted it IS growing exponentially. Math is objective - it is not debatable. Just do some research on exponential growth, and I think it will make more sense.

---

There's nothing about it that doesn't make sense. Cases are still doubling in a little less than three days.

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

Kyle said:

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Guy Noir said:

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Kyle said:

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contrario said:

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We'll know in November. This could backfire on the democrats if Trump gets us out of this and the economy begins to recover before the election.

Every person I've talked to, regardless of age, race or political affiliation knows the hysteria is ridiculous. That doesn't mean they think the virus isn't dangerous, it absolutely is, but the panic is disproportionate to the actual threat. And most people are seeing that.

---

Yes, but when are influential people going to start calling for return to normality. When are Establishment leaders going to put people and country above politics and principle?

---

Asking people to stay home and keep social distances is putting people and country, above politics. I do not understand your use of the word principle. This virus is spreading very quickly. The best solutions are to social distance people. The USA economy needs to be able to be on hold for a month (maybe more). That is the reality of the situation.

I would like to note that the borders need to be controlled because of this event. The argument for open borders that was discussed last year, is now shown to be a poor approach.

---

Why did we not take similar precautions during the H1N1 pandemic?

Mark my words, 90% of the people calling for the hysteria have not thought it through. When they realize the treatment was worse than the disease, they are going to get amnesia and blame president Trump and Republicans for destroying the economy.

---

H1N1 was nothing like this virus. This is bigger than US politics. Take a world view.

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

This may or may not be the same/similar to H1N1. Everyone's convinced themselves otherwise, but in reality we don't know. H1N1 was a novel virus, it infected about 50-70 million Americans and killed another 13,000. Another estimated 300,000+ people died worldwide. The biggest difference is that H1N1 killed mostly younger people.

Our approach to this virus has been completely different, politically, socially, and economically. The fear around Covid-19 is some part reality and some part manufactured. Let's hope we can deal with the former effectively and weed out the latter as we move forward.

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

Wow, that was quite a bit of research you did today.

You know what would really help? Fight the last war, and critique the media from 2009.

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

H1N1 was first detected on American soil April 15. Public Health Emergency declared April 26. Test approved and released April 28. Test shipped May 1.

WHO declares pandemic June 11. New Vaccine released in September.

COVID-19 first case in January. It's March and we just got testing and declaration. We don't know the upper limit, so talking about it makes no sense.

Again, the biggest difference between the two presidents is Trump downplayed the seriousness of COVID-19 and convinced people it was a media plot against him (it ain't).

tommie said:

---

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

H1N1 was first detected on American soil April 15. Public Health Emergency declared April 26. Test approved and released April 28. Test shipped May 1.

WHO declares pandemic June 11. New Vaccine released in September.

COVID-19 first case in January. It's March and we just got testing and declaration. We don't know the upper limit, so talking about it makes no sense.

---

National emergency wasn't declared until 6 months later, in October. Read my post again.

January 21st - First case of C-19 on US soil

January 29, 2020 The White House announces the formation of a new task force that will help monitor and contain the spread of the virus, and ensure Americans have accurate and up-to-date health and travel information, it says.

January 31, 2020 Trump administration declared public health emergency and announces it will deny entry to foreign nationals who have traveled in China in the last 14 days. Many liberal media outlets and opposing political "leaders" announce Trump is racist.

March 13, 2020 Trump declares a national emergency to free up $50 billion in federal resources to combat coronavirus.


Trump waited 6 weeks until declaring a national emergency, unlike his predecessor, who waited 6 months. 60 million infected, 300,000 hospitalization, over 12,000 deaths and no social distancing, no shelter in place, no gov't daily press conferences..... Like I said, Obama gets an 'F' on H1N1 response.

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

H1N1 was first detected on American soil April 15. Public Health Emergency declared April 26. Test approved and released April 28. Test shipped May 1.

WHO declares pandemic June 11. New Vaccine released in September.

COVID-19 first case in January. It's March and we just got testing and declaration. We don't know the upper limit, so talking about it makes no sense.

---

National emergency wasn't declared until 6 months later, in October. Read my post again.

January 21st - First case of C-19 on US soil

January 29, 2020 The White House announces the formation of a new task force that will help monitor and contain the spread of the virus, and ensure Americans have accurate and up-to-date health and travel information, it says.

January 31, 2020 Trump administration declared public health emergency and announces it will deny entry to foreign nationals who have traveled in China in the last 14 days. Many liberal media outlets and opposing political "leaders" announce Trump is racist.

March 13, 2020 Trump declares a national emergency to free up $50 billion in federal resources to combat coronavirus.


Trump waited 6 weeks until declaring a national emergency, unlike his predecessor, who waited 6 months. 60 million infected, 300,000 hospitalization, over 12,000 deaths and no social distancing, no shelter in place, no gov't daily press conferences..... Like I said, Obama gets an 'F' on H1N1 response.

---

Obama declared a public health emergency almost immediately. That declaration allowed the federal government to do everything it needed to medically. National Emergency is when the problem has broader impacts.

The bottom line is that H1N1 never posed a threat of overwhelming our healthcare system and because it was the flu there was already therapeutics available. This is a completely different animal.

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

---

I think, and this is just spitballing, is that Trump is listening to his gut. That will annoy some folks, but his instincts have helped him win in tough situations before.

Remember that Trump ran against "The Swamp". So when you turn on the TV, and you see strangers you never met before, all paraded by the media as "experts" we are supposed to obey just because the media says they are "experts", well, at some level there is an internal conflict between trying to be safe and resisting becoming a slave to nameless government.

Trump knows, on the one hand, that we have to stay at home as much as possible, to avoid spreading the virus. He also knows that at some point, people will start ignoring stay at home orders if they feel the reason is not justified, and we are already seeing some businesses in Houston defy the lockdown order because they see it as arbitrary. So Trump is trying to get people to comply with the orders while offering hope that they have an end we can see. Trump's suggested that it would be nice to see people able to go to church for Easter, for example - he did not say it was certain, nor did he say it would be without conditions to protect, but it offered some hope and was a nod to a desire for people to be able to meet in activities they consider important.

It's a balancing act, not as eloquent as I might hope, but certainly not the careless opinions the Left has claimed.

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

---

Shoot, until last week, I knew people, both liberal and conservative, that were basically still blowing this off, even though the warnings had been out there for a while.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

---

Shoot, until last week, I knew people, both liberal and conservative, that were basically still blowing this off, even though the warnings had been out there for a while.

---

No kidding. Even people blasting Trump on the China travel ban as racist

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

---

Shoot, until last week, I knew people, both liberal and conservative, that were basically still blowing this off, even though the warnings had been out there for a while.

---

Thus the need for more honesty and less wishful thinking.

No matter how one spins it ...Obama butchered his handling of the swine flu pandemic.

Millions got sick and over 12,000 died.

Never closed the southern border even when it was shown
the virus was entering the US through Mexico .

All fall sporting events were played on schedule even though the 2nd wave was more virulent than the first and most of the deaths followed .

But Obama was half black ...and if the media gave him even 20% of the vicious attacks that Trump has endured it would have been termed 'racist '.

But Obama's bungling was nothing compared to the tragic- criminal behavior of Woodrow Wilson during the 1918 Spanish Influenza pandemic . He suppressed much of the news about the vast numbers of deaths in order to continue the war effort in France .

Booray said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

---

Shoot, until last week, I knew people, both liberal and conservative, that were basically still blowing this off, even though the warnings had been out there for a while.

---

Thus the need for more honesty and less wishful thinking.

---

I like how you label being hopeful as wishful thinking

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

H1N1 was first detected on American soil April 15. Public Health Emergency declared April 26. Test approved and released April 28. Test shipped May 1.

WHO declares pandemic June 11. New Vaccine released in September.

COVID-19 first case in January. It's March and we just got testing and declaration. We don't know the upper limit, so talking about it makes no sense.

---

National emergency wasn't declared until 6 months later, in October. Read my post again.

January 21st - First case of C-19 on US soil

January 29, 2020 The White House announces the formation of a new task force that will help monitor and contain the spread of the virus, and ensure Americans have accurate and up-to-date health and travel information, it says.

January 31, 2020 Trump administration declared public health emergency and announces it will deny entry to foreign nationals who have traveled in China in the last 14 days. Many liberal media outlets and opposing political "leaders" announce Trump is racist.

March 13, 2020 Trump declares a national emergency to free up $50 billion in federal resources to combat coronavirus.


Trump waited 6 weeks until declaring a national emergency, unlike his predecessor, who waited 6 months. 60 million infected, 300,000 hospitalization, over 12,000 deaths and no social distancing, no shelter in place, no gov't daily press conferences..... Like I said, Obama gets an 'F' on H1N1 response.

---

How is your grade on Obama gonna help you today?

tommie said:

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HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

H1N1 was first detected on American soil April 15. Public Health Emergency declared April 26. Test approved and released April 28. Test shipped May 1.

WHO declares pandemic June 11. New Vaccine released in September.

COVID-19 first case in January. It's March and we just got testing and declaration. We don't know the upper limit, so talking about it makes no sense.

Again, the biggest difference between the two presidents is Trump downplayed the seriousness of COVID-19 and convinced people it was a media plot against him (it ain't).

---

In fairness, Trump was actually ahead of others on it. When Trump was calling for action, it was the Democrats downplaying it. We should be intellectually honest. There is plenty of irrefutable evidence to that point. I am not saying Trump hit a home run, but he was ahead of others.

HashTag said:

---

Booray said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

---

Shoot, until last week, I knew people, both liberal and conservative, that were basically still blowing this off, even though the warnings had been out there for a while.

---

Thus the need for more honesty and less wishful thinking.

---

I like how you label being hopeful as wishful thinking

---

Hopeful: We will beat this, life will return to normal.

Wishful thinking: We will see churches packed at Easter.

Clear enough? I have about a thousand other examples.

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

H1N1 was first detected on American soil April 15. Public Health Emergency declared April 26. Test approved and released April 28. Test shipped May 1.

WHO declares pandemic June 11. New Vaccine released in September.

COVID-19 first case in January. It's March and we just got testing and declaration. We don't know the upper limit, so talking about it makes no sense.

Again, the biggest difference between the two presidents is Trump downplayed the seriousness of COVID-19 and convinced people it was a media plot against him (it ain't).

---

In fairness, Trump was actually ahead of others on it. When Trump was calling for action, it was the Democrats downplaying it. We should be intellectually honest. There is plenty of irrefutable evidence to that point. I am not saying Trump hit a home run, but he was ahead of others.

---

He hit a single and then was picked off.

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

H1N1 was first detected on American soil April 15. Public Health Emergency declared April 26. Test approved and released April 28. Test shipped May 1.

WHO declares pandemic June 11. New Vaccine released in September.

COVID-19 first case in January. It's March and we just got testing and declaration. We don't know the upper limit, so talking about it makes no sense.

Again, the biggest difference between the two presidents is Trump downplayed the seriousness of COVID-19 and convinced people it was a media plot against him (it ain't).

---

In fairness, Trump was actually ahead of others on it. When Trump was calling for action, it was the Democrats downplaying it. We should be intellectually honest. There is plenty of irrefutable evidence to that point. I am not saying Trump hit a home run, but he was ahead of others.

---

Things like this is as often the message as it is the action. IMO, Trump has done a disservice to his supporters as they initially believe this was a hoax.

And they acted as such.

So, as bad as this seems in the northeast and west will quickly come to the south and be devastating. And that's gonna suck for us.

So if he did good, he undermined the good he did.

quash said:

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You know what would really help? Fight the last war, and critique the media from 2009.

---

Or if we had some way to predict how coronavirus was going to affect our healthcare system, as opposed to just arguing and speculating. For example, if the epidemic had spread on other continents first, we might have some actual data to work with and get an idea of what to expect. Oh, well.

Booray said:

---

HashTag said:

---

Booray said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

---

Shoot, until last week, I knew people, both liberal and conservative, that were basically still blowing this off, even though the warnings had been out there for a while.

---

Thus the need for more honesty and less wishful thinking.

---

I like how you label being hopeful as wishful thinking

---

Hopeful: We will beat this, life will return to normal.

Wishful thinking: We will see churches packed at Easter.

Clear enough? I have about a thousand other examples.

---

Trump said it would be great to see churches packed at Easter, not a prediction that it would happen.

A little more of that honesty you like would be nice.

tommie said:

---

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

HashTag said:

---

tommie said:

---

Kyle said:

---

Scattershooting while wondering why no one can explain why we did not react this way in 2009? Only one thing was different?

---

Different virus. Different Messenger. Different Relationships. Different Origin. Different goal.

COVID-19 is much more contagious but was being messaged as "no big deal." This outward messaging was followed with a slow response and a counter message from trusted sources that this is not to be messed with.

I'd argue the biggest difference is the messenger. Trump and conservative media kept arguing this bug was somehow a plot against Donald Trump. It's not.

H1N1 originated in Mexico and very early on had a cooperative relationship between the US/Mexico/Canada. Now, it's America First. We had little information from China.

Finally, our supply chains for PPE and equipment are disrupted. We will lose a tremendous number of front line workers who working with serious risk to themselves.

Finally, Trump is addressing this pandemic as an economic problem. It's a health problem.

---

Obama grossly mishandled the H1N1 virus. 60 million infected, almost 300,000 hospitalized and over 12,000 deaths. Didn't declare it a national emergency until 6 months later.

Spin all you want, we know you will, but the numbers are against you on this.

---

H1N1 was first detected on American soil April 15. Public Health Emergency declared April 26. Test approved and released April 28. Test shipped May 1.

WHO declares pandemic June 11. New Vaccine released in September.

COVID-19 first case in January. It's March and we just got testing and declaration. We don't know the upper limit, so talking about it makes no sense.

---

National emergency wasn't declared until 6 months later, in October. Read my post again.

January 21st - First case of C-19 on US soil

January 29, 2020 The White House announces the formation of a new task force that will help monitor and contain the spread of the virus, and ensure Americans have accurate and up-to-date health and travel information, it says.

January 31, 2020 Trump administration declared public health emergency and announces it will deny entry to foreign nationals who have traveled in China in the last 14 days. Many liberal media outlets and opposing political "leaders" announce Trump is racist.

March 13, 2020 Trump declares a national emergency to free up $50 billion in federal resources to combat coronavirus.


Trump waited 6 weeks until declaring a national emergency, unlike his predecessor, who waited 6 months. 60 million infected, 300,000 hospitalization, over 12,000 deaths and no social distancing, no shelter in place, no gov't daily press conferences..... Like I said, Obama gets an 'F' on H1N1 response.

---

How is your grade on Obama gonna help you today?

---

How is your TDS going to help you today?

Booray said:

---

HashTag said:

---

Booray said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I'm a lighter grader on both cases. Presidents do not expect to have to face pandemics, nor should they as a general rule. Each President gets advice from professionals whom he trusts to give him good information. From what I see, both Trump and Obama had a mix of good advice and some errors, and they made some good calls and missed a few. In neither case was the President guilty of negligence or incompetence.

My gut tells me that if the Democrats attack Trump over COVID-19, they will regret it. Certainly I think the Presidents could each have done things better, but again, I also believe they respond to advice and conditions in the most responsible manner they believe possible.

---

Tend to agree with this although future Presidents should "expect to have to face a pandemic."

The truth is we would be in much better shape if we had locked down harder and earlier. The other truth is that locking down Americans harder and earlier would have been politically impossible.

Now that we are in the fight, I wish POTUS would give us a little more honesty and a little less wishful thinking.

---

Shoot, until last week, I knew people, both liberal and conservative, that were basically still blowing this off, even though the warnings had been out there for a while.

---

Thus the need for more honesty and less wishful thinking.

---

I like how you label being hopeful as wishful thinking

---

Hopeful: We will beat this, life will return to normal.

Wishful thinking: We will see churches packed at Easter.

Clear enough? I have about a thousand other examples.

---

First, he didn't say we'd be back to normal by Easter... he's hopeful they could be. Once again, hopeful... But you be you and see what you believe instead of the other way around.