Flaming Moderate said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

WSJ " In the first meeting of President Trump's task force to reopen the economy, banking and financial services executives said the administration needed to dramatically increase the availability of coronavirus testing before the public would be confident enough to return to work, eat at restaurants or shop in retail establishments, according to people familiar with the call." Michael Bender

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

It is a difficult circumstance for all those you list, It is a tragic choice for government officials -- reopen but if one reopens then a real a chance for a huge pandemic.and losing the employees life and?or those they love.
The Presidents guidelines are hugely helpful and I comment him.
But all re-openings are dependent on testing.
Insurance companies and banks and brokerage house and the 1% need to return their off shore accounts to the USA and cut people a break on loans, rent, and support food banks.

even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniaclal nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

william said:

---

even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniaclal nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

---

The cure (stay at home) is not worse than the disease. The disease kills while you sip coffee.

william said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

william said:

---

even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniaclal nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

---

The cure (stay at home) is not worse than the disease. The disease kills while you sip coffee.

---

no it doesn't. 98% of the cases are in-person contact. the portable 5 minute tests are rolling out. clinical trials are well underway. off-label uses are now being rapidly approved. this is how fast-adapting capitalist societies react to problems. fast and efficient.

98% of the healthy young who contract it are just fine.

90% of the deaths are very elderly or those w/ risk factors.

we have lost trillion$ and lives and livelihoods are being destroyed.

all while Washington dithers on how to piss away another trillion and the governors and state *officials* still manage to collect their pay and benefits.

how convenient. how disgustingly hypocritical.

let them eat cake.

and Covid2 is apparently more contagious and has been circulating for longer than first estimated. meaning it has already spread around the globe 3 times and exposed the majority of us to it already.

that is a sizable herd immunity already established.

plus it is looking to be seasonal - considering the relatively few cases in the southern hemisphere. Summer is nearing.

- KKM

so - go back to sleep - assuming you have even been awake for years.

herd immunity > herd mentality.

My Work is Done Here!!

- arbysman

D!

---

This. Between the human cost of the shutdown and the reality this was not nearly as bad as predicted, we have to start considering the least of these. The most vulnerable - the old folks - likely are retired and need not get out, so we can both protect the most vulnerable to the disease and protect the most vulnerable from the shutdown.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

william said:

---

even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniac nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

---

The cure (stay at home) is not worse than the disease. The disease kills while you sip coffee.

---

How much money are you personally donating to people who lost their jobs, Waco?

S T F U, then.

---

I have donated countless hours to those who lost jobs. I have participated in 40 builds for Habitat for Humanity. These homeowners who are mostly wage earners have their loans through Habitat for Humanity Mortgage Company at 0% interest and HFH is working with clients to forbear on these loans
I also support Democrats who have for years supported livable wages, affordable healthcare, preventing all the money from going to the 1%, paid sick leave, quality education K through college and trade school etc. Changing Public Policy is one huge way to increase wealth and savings for the working poor. It is an economy of scale. I choose to have my tax dollars work to help the working poor and I choose HFH to donate my hours with countless other volunteers.

william said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

william said:

---

even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniaclal nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

---

The cure (stay at home) is not worse than the disease. The disease kills while you sip coffee.

---

no it doesn't. 98% of the cases are in-person contact. the portable 5 minute tests are rolling out. clinical trials are well underway. off-label uses are now being rapidly approved. this is how fast-adapting capitalist societies react to problems. fast and efficient.

98% of the healthy young who contract it are just fine.

90% of the deaths are very elderly or those w/ risk factors.

we have lost trillion$ and lives and livelihoods are being destroyed.

all while Washington dithers on how to piss away another trillion and the governors and state *officials* still manage to collect their pay and benefits.

how convenient. how disgustingly hypocritical.

let them eat cake.

and Covid2 is apparently more contagious and has been circulating for longer than first estimated. meaning it has already spread around the globe 3 times and exposed the majority of us to it already.

that is a sizable herd immunity already established.

plus it is looking to be seasonal - considering the relatively few cases in the southern hemisphere. Summer is nearing.

- KKM

so - go back to sleep - assuming you have even been awake for years.

herd immunity > herd mentality.

My Work is Done Here!!

- arbysman

D!

---

"Rolling out tests" is right but they are not up to scale for 320 million citizens. The disease kills.

Bruin said:

---

william said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

william said:

---

even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniaclal nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

---

The cure (stay at home) is not worse than the disease. The disease kills while you sip coffee.

---

no it doesn't. 98% of the cases are in-person contact. the portable 5 minute tests are rolling out. clinical trials are well underway. off-label uses are now being rapidly approved. this is how fast-adapting capitalist societies react to problems. fast and efficient.

98% of the healthy young who contract it are just fine.

90% of the deaths are very elderly or those w/ risk factors.

we have lost trillion$ and lives and livelihoods are being destroyed.

all while Washington dithers on how to piss away another trillion and the governors and state *officials* still manage to collect their pay and benefits.

how convenient. how disgustingly hypocritical.

let them eat cake.

and Covid2 is apparently more contagious and has been circulating for longer than first estimated. meaning it has already spread around the globe 3 times and exposed the majority of us to it already.

that is a sizable herd immunity already established.

plus it is looking to be seasonal - considering the relatively few cases in the southern hemisphere. Summer is nearing.

- KKM

so - go back to sleep - assuming you have even been awake for years.

herd immunity > herd mentality.

My Work is Done Here!!

- arbysman

D!

---

Damn fine responding post! Unfortunately wasted on a mindless fool.

---

Most socks come off as mindless fools. They are often meant to.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Bragging on your ass means nothing when you are willing to see millions lose their life savings just so you can feel good in your paranoia.

You are an hypocrite, Waco.

---

You asked. "How much money are you personally donating to people who lost their jobs, Waco?

thenS T F U," .Notice the question mark?

So, I answered. Why is that bragging to simply answer your question?

Waco said:

---

"Rolling out tests" is right but they are not up to scale for 320 million citizens. The disease kills.

---

looks to be no worse now than the ordinary flu.

- KKM

>>
Abstract

Background Addressing COVID-19 is a pressing health and social concern. To date, many epidemic projections and policies addressing COVID-19 have been designed without seroprevalence data to inform epidemic parameters. We measured the seroprevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in Santa Clara County. Methods On 4/3-4/4, 2020, we tested county residents for antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 using a lateral flow immunoassay.

Participants were recruited using Facebook ads targeting a representative sample of the county by demographic and geographic characteristics. We report the prevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in a sample of 3,330 people, adjusting for zip code, sex, and race/ethnicity. We also adjust for test performance characteristics using 3 different estimates: (i) the test manufacturer's data, (ii) a sample of 37 positive and 30 negative controls tested at Stanford, and (iii) a combination of both. Results

The unadjusted prevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in Santa Clara County was 1.5% (exact binomial 95CI 1.11-1.97%), and the population-weighted prevalence was 2.81% (95CI 2.24-3.37%). Under the three scenarios for test performance characteristics, the population prevalence of COVID-19 in Santa Clara ranged from 2.49% (95CI 1.80-3.17%) to 4.16% (2.58-5.70%). These prevalence estimates represent a range between 48,000 and 81,000 people infected in Santa Clara County by early April, 50-85-fold more than the number of confirmed cases.

Conclusions The population prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in Santa Clara County implies that the infection is much more widespread than indicated by the number of confirmed cases. Population prevalence estimates can now be used to calibrate epidemic and mortality projections.

Competing Interest Statement

The authors have declared no competing interest.

Funding Statement
We acknowledge many individual donors who generously supported this project with gift awards. The funders had no role in the design and conduct of the study, nor in the decision to prepare and submit the manuscript for publication.

Author Declarations
All relevant ethical guidelines have been followed; any necessary IRB and/or ethics committee approvals have been obtained and details of the IRB/oversight body are included in the manuscript.
Yes

All necessary patient/participant consent has been obtained and the appropriate institutional forms have been archived.
Yes

I understand that all clinical trials and any other prospective interventional studies must be registered with an ICMJE-approved registry, such as ClinicalTrials.gov. I confirm that any such study reported in the manuscript has been registered and the trial registration ID is provided (note: if posting a prospective study registered retrospectively, please provide a statement in the trial ID field explaining why the study was not registered in advance).
Yes

I have followed all appropriate research reporting guidelines and uploaded the relevant EQUATOR Network research reporting checklist(s) and other pertinent material as supplementary files, if applicable.
Yes
<<

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Bragging on your ass means nothing when you are willing to see millions lose their life savings just so you can feel good in your paranoia.

You are an hypocrite, Waco.

---

You asked. "How much money are you personally donating to people who lost their jobs, Waco?

thenS T F U," .Notice the question mark?

So, I answered. Why is that bragging to simply answer your question?

---

You did not answer, you tried to virtue signal and I noticed you don't give a penny to the people who lost their jobs because of the shutdown, and you don't plan to do so.

Therefore you are an hypocrite for demanding someone else suffer at your command.

Waco1947 said:

---

william said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

william said:

---

even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniaclal nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

---

The cure (stay at home) is not worse than the disease. The disease kills while you sip coffee.

---

no it doesn't. 98% of the cases are in-person contact. the portable 5 minute tests are rolling out. clinical trials are well underway. off-label uses are now being rapidly approved. this is how fast-adapting capitalist societies react to problems. fast and efficient.

98% of the healthy young who contract it are just fine.

90% of the deaths are very elderly or those w/ risk factors.

we have lost trillion$ and lives and livelihoods are being destroyed.

all while Washington dithers on how to piss away another trillion and the governors and state *officials* still manage to collect their pay and benefits.

how convenient. how disgustingly hypocritical.

let them eat cake.

and Covid2 is apparently more contagious and has been circulating for longer than first estimated. meaning it has already spread around the globe 3 times and exposed the majority of us to it already.

that is a sizable herd immunity already established.

plus it is looking to be seasonal - considering the relatively few cases in the southern hemisphere. Summer is nearing.

- KKM

so - go back to sleep - assuming you have even been awake for years.

herd immunity > herd mentality.

My Work is Done Here!!

- arbysman

D!

---

"Rolling out tests" is right but they are not up to scale for 320 million citizens. The disease kills.

---

Guess what kills more? Child abuse, domestic violence, depression, unemployment, poor health care, etc. So you're okay killing the lest of these because you're high risk? You could just stay home.

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

william said:

---

even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniac nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

---

The cure (stay at home) is not worse than the disease. The disease kills while you sip coffee.

---

How much money are you personally donating to people who lost their jobs, Waco?

S T F U, then.

---

I also support Democrats who have for years supported livable wages, affordable healthcare, preventing all the money from going to the 1%, paid sick leave, quality education K through college and trade school etc. Changing Public Policy is one huge way to increase wealth and savings for the working poor. It is an economy of scale. I choose to have my tax dollars work to help the working poor and I choose HFH to donate my hours with countless other volunteers.

---

Has you ever connected the dots that you've been supporting the same failed policies and the Great Society has not made a difference? You're the first one to cry about all these social problems - has it dawned on you your ideas to fix them are bad?

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

---

That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

---

You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

---

Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

---

What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

---

I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

Thanks for the comment, Wuhan Sam.

wi[q[quot said:

---

Quote:

---

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

---

---

Unemployment is never worse than death or permanent disability.

Quote:

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

---

Ouch.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

---

That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

---

You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

---

Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

---

What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

---

I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

---

Sam - not sure if I posted this here or on the other thread, but on my list were those suffering because they could not receive needed health care or surgery because of the lockdown. The sick is near the top of the list.

jupiter said:

---

Quote:

---

---

---

Agreed.

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

---

That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

---

You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

---

Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

---

What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

---

I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

---

Sam - not sure if I posted this here or on the other thread, but on my list were those suffering because they could not receive needed health care or surgery because of the lockdown. The sick is near the top of the list.

---

A short delay in elective surgery doesn't begin to compare with the suffering when emergency rooms and intensive care units are overwhelmed.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

---

That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

---

You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

---

Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

---

What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

---

I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

---

Sam - not sure if I posted this here or on the other thread, but on my list were those suffering because they could not receive needed health care or surgery because of the lockdown. The sick is near the top of the list.

---

A short delay in elective surgery doesn't begin to compare with the suffering when emergency rooms and intensive care units are overwhelmed.

---

They haven't been and aren't. Stop trying to justify your foolish belief in imaginary numbers created by garbage computer models predicting the greatest non-apocalypse since global warming killed us all 20 years ago.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

---

That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

---

You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

---

Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

---

What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

---

I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

---

Sam - not sure if I posted this here or on the other thread, but on my list were those suffering because they could not receive needed health care or surgery because of the lockdown. The sick is near the top of the list.

---

A short delay in elective surgery doesn't begin to compare with the suffering when emergency rooms and intensive care units are overwhelmed.

---

Mrs. 90s Bear is an ER doc and regional medical director overseeing multiple ER's. I would say her biggest stress right now is not becoming infected but rather how to balance shifts and staffing numbers as all staff hours and shifts (doctors, nurses, etc) are being cut due to low volume.

People don't want to go to the ER right now unless they absolutely have to and elective surgeries and procedures are a cash cow that help keep hospitals running and pay health care staff. As weird as it sounds, in the midst of a medical crisis, the medical industry and all its workers are suffering financially as well as dealing with the stress of being on the front lines.

90sBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

---

That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

---

You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

---

Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

---

What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

---

I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

---

Sam - not sure if I posted this here or on the other thread, but on my list were those suffering because they could not receive needed health care or surgery because of the lockdown. The sick is near the top of the list.

---

A short delay in elective surgery doesn't begin to compare with the suffering when emergency rooms and intensive care units are overwhelmed.

---

Mrs. 90s Bear is an ER doc and regional medical director overseeing multiple ER's. I would say her biggest stress right now is not becoming infected but rather how to balance shifts and staffing numbers as all staff hours and shifts (doctors, nurses, etc) are being cut due to low volume.

People don't want to go to the ER right now unless they absolutely have to and elective surgeries and procedures are a cash cow that help keep hospitals running and pay health care staff. As weird as it sounds, in the midst of a medical crisis, the medical industry and all its workers are suffering financially as well as dealing with the stress of being on the front lines.

---

Interesting insight, because that's exactly what my good friend who's an ER physician said. There is tremendous financial stress on hospitals due to the suspending of elective procedures.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

---

That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

---

You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

---

Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

---

What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

---

I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

---

Sam - not sure if I posted this here or on the other thread, but on my list were those suffering because they could not receive needed health care or surgery because of the lockdown. The sick is near the top of the list.

---

A short delay in elective surgery doesn't begin to compare with the suffering when emergency rooms and intensive care units are overwhelmed.

---

Sam, normally you're pretty reasoned and thoughtful. For whatever reason, you have really lost your commons sense here. Have you every sat in pain waiting on needed medical attention? What if you cannot walk or move due to excruciating pain. You want to just tell those people - it is just a short delay. Are you serious? There literally is not a single overwhelmed hospital in the United States.

jupiter said:

---

---

"A crisis is a terrible thing to waste." - Paul Romer

feel really bad for the doctors and nurses and PTs and hospital staff laid off b/c elective surgery has been cancelled.

in 90% of the country this seems like a really stupid decision made by bureaucrats whose salary hasn't been impacted one bit.

Wake Up 'Murrica!!!!

- BUmma

{ drinking too much coffee }

90sBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

tommie said:

---

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

---

So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

---

I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

---

That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

---

You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

---

Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

---

What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

---

I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

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Sam - not sure if I posted this here or on the other thread, but on my list were those suffering because they could not receive needed health care or surgery because of the lockdown. The sick is near the top of the list.

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A short delay in elective surgery doesn't begin to compare with the suffering when emergency rooms and intensive care units are overwhelmed.

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Mrs. 90s Bear is an ER doc and regional medical director overseeing multiple ER's. I would say her biggest stress right now is not becoming infected but rather how to balance shifts and staffing numbers as all staff hours and shifts (doctors, nurses, etc) are being cut due to low volume.

People don't want to go to the ER right now unless they absolutely have to and elective surgeries and procedures are a cash cow that help keep hospitals running and pay health care staff. As weird as it sounds, in the midst of a medical crisis, the medical industry and all its workers are suffering financially as well as dealing with the stress of being on the front lines.

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My wife is in the same industry. I recognize the issue, but I also know they're doing this for a reason. Our facilities were clearing their schedules before any orders came from the governor.

Flaming Moderate said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Flaming Moderate said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Flaming Moderate said:

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tommie said:

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Flaming Moderate said:

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tommie said:

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Flaming Moderate said:

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tommie said:

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Flaming Moderate said:

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tommie said:

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Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.

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So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?

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I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.

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That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?

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You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?

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Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.

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What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).

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I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.

---

You can't talk about the least of these without talking about the sick. They are among the people Jesus was referring to. Medieval Christians invented hospitals as a double act of charity - in part to care for the sick, and in part to sequester them and protect those who were not yet infected. Under the Roman empire, Christians embarrassed the authorities by taking better of care of sick pagans than their own government was doing. Too many Christians today are embarrassing themselves (and all of us) by denying science, advancing paranoid theories, embracing a superstitious belief in their own invulnerability, and focusing only on their individual rights with no concern for the wider community.

I've endured a lot of lectures from pro-abortion people who like to say conservative Christians are misogynistic and more pro-birth than pro-life. A lot of these lectures are delivered in bad faith, but the last few weeks have shown me that there's more truth in them than I realized. All these problems that are supposedly going to destroy society - financial ruin, hungry kids, domestic violence, depression, drug abuse, suicide - are the same ones used to justify abortion. If you're a woman you're supposed to suck it up and tough it out. Apparently the same doesn't apply to us guys and our small businesses and stock portfolios.

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Sam - not sure if I posted this here or on the other thread, but on my list were those suffering because they could not receive needed health care or surgery because of the lockdown. The sick is near the top of the list.

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A short delay in elective surgery doesn't begin to compare with the suffering when emergency rooms and intensive care units are overwhelmed.

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Sam, normally you're pretty reasoned and thoughtful. For whatever reason, you have really lost your commons sense here. Have you every sat in pain waiting on needed medical attention? What if you cannot walk or move due to excruciating pain. You want to just tell those people - it is just a short delay. Are you serious? There literally is not a single overwhelmed hospital in the United States.

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Yes, I've been in severe pain before. Some cases are clearly emergent, some clearly not, and some are judgment calls that should be taken on a case-by-case basis. Being told you have to reschedule can be difficult. Being triaged and allowed to die is much worse. Common sense should easily see the difference.

The claim that no hospitals have been overwhelmed is patently false. I don't know where it keeps coming from.

Common sense matters

Damn few people are relying on it here, though. Way to much depend on panic and fear.

Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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william said:

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even the TDS'ers must agree that amid the never-ending stream of miasmatic megalomaniac nonsense AO let's loose with a concise accurate common-sensical summation of things:

The Cure Cannot be Allowed to Be Worse than the Disease.

#Retumesce'Murrica

- Loaded

{ sipping coffee }

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The cure (stay at home) is not worse than the disease. The disease kills while you sip coffee.

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How much money are you personally donating to people who lost their jobs, Waco?

S T F U, then.

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I have donated countless hours to those who lost jobs. I have participated in 40 builds for Habitat for Humanity. These homeowners who are mostly wage earners have their loans through Habitat for Humanity Mortgage Company at 0% interest and HFH is working with clients to forbear on these loans
I also support Democrats who have for years supported livable wages, affordable healthcare, preventing all the money from going to the 1%, paid sick leave, quality education K through college and trade school etc. Changing Public Policy is one huge way to increase wealth and savings for the working poor. It is an economy of scale. I choose to have my tax dollars work to help the working poor and I choose HFH to donate my hours with countless other volunteers.

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So to shorten your usual self aggrandizement, you haven't given anything, while you still draw your pension or social security, whichever it may be.