PartyBear said:

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I don't think he has the authority to pick one or two states and do a quarantine. Perhaps a POTUS can order a nationwide shelter in place and perhaps he should. NY is already under one though. As are some other states and many cities and counties in states where there isnt one. Nevertheless I can't imagine just announcing you think you can shut down NY is going to sit well with Wall Street. As it is literally in NYC and NYC is modern Rome commerce wise.

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I think Trump just gave them notice of what he will be doing shortly.

Jinx 2 said:

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contrario said:

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NYC has almost half of the US cases. NYC has more cases than every country but 4. Yes, Cuomo is doing a bang up job. If results mattered in politics, he would have been fired this week, but results don't matter. Words are all that matters and he talks a good game that appeals to the dumbest of all of us.

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How exactly was Cuomo supposed to keep people from traveling through the NYC airports from all over the globe in the absence of any federal guidance and with a POTUS who was calling the virus a hoax and not a big threat until Tucker Carlson confronted him at a party.

Mayors are having to step up and do too little too late with inadequate supplies the state and federal governments didn't do their jobs. Cuomo and the mayor of my city both mandated social distancing. My state has far more cases than adjacent states where governors took more aggressive action sooner; our mayor acted as soon as he could to mandate social distancing, quell a revolt among bar owners willing to put the entire city at risk, and shut down non-essential services and businesses. That meant we started behind.

And we don' have the density of New York.

The right-wing media narrative may be to blame local leaders, but a pandemic requires a national response and we started ours months too late.

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Very helpful. Abortions are down, hate is up.

tommie said:

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He's not on the ticket. I can't speak to his moral failings.

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As if you'd speak of his "moral failings if he was on the ticket?"

You're sly, but obviously TDS infected

PartyBear said:

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I don't think he has the authority to pick one or two states and do a quarantine. Perhaps a POTUS can order a nationwide shelter in place and perhaps he should. NY is already under one though. As are some other states and many cities and counties in states where there isnt one. Nevertheless I can't imagine just announcing you think you can shut down NY is going to sit well with Wall Street. As it is literally in NYC and NYC is modern Rome commerce wise.

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Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

J.R. said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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J.R. said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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J.R. said:

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riflebear said:

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J.R. said:

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I don't give 2 ****s about his political leanings. What I have observed is that he is so much more capable than our president. While our President continues his narcissist ways, and managing this crisis by his opinion and not facts, Gov. Cuomo, deals in facts, data, and the expertise of the best people we have. Trump deals in bull*****

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I'm amazed (not really) at the disinformation out there from people who only watch liberal media. Trump definitely is not perfect in his briefings but you don't become a Billionaire and then become President w/out knowing how to manage large projects and LISTEN and delegate. If he wasn't listening he wouldn't have put the China ban on and he wouldn't have told everyone to stay inside and follow all the health officials as the economy passes into a recession which could severely damage his election chances.

Listen to this before making blanket statements. It contradicts everything you said. I know I won't change your mind but hopefully you will be more educated.

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He didn't really become a Billionaire, he inherited $440M for daddy and has left a wake of failures behind him. Mr. Rifle, I deal in facts and data, not twitter crap. I would like you to refute anything I said in my post. Let's face it, he not leader, he's a con man.

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You mean truth like:

• His brand has been more successful than other counterparts like Richard Branson's Virgin brand. Branson has had far more duds and I am aware of people considering him a failure.
• Most people would be delighted to have the track record of wins and losses that Trump has experienced.
• You try to claim he didn't really become a billionaire but by your own claimed facts, he received $440 million and now has a net worth of $3.1 billion. That sounds like significant progress to me. I know plenty of stories of folks who turned millions into mere thousands. But how many people have turned millions into billions?
• This article says Fred Trump died in 1999 with an estimated net wealth between $250 million and $300 million according to a New York Times article at the time of death.8 While the specific amount Trump inherited from his father has not been revealed, a Jan. 2016 article from the New York Times shows that Trump's will divided $20 million after taxes among his living children including Donald. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/us/politics/for-donald-trump-lessons-from-a-brothers-suffering.html
• Don't forget that Trump ran his father's businesses during his father's twilight years. How much additional money did Donald make for his father and his estate?

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1. I don't want a president with a brand and one who keeps perpetuating it. To compare the Orange Con-Man to Richard Branson is jus laughable
2)His track record is filled with carnage and not paying his bills a screwing people, so I disagree
3)We have NO IDEA what he is worth. He lies about everything , including his wealth . If I enherited $440M, a Billion is fairly easy to do. He ain't close to $3B
4)Hell, I could run my father's business, If I inherited $440M and ran the business with Fred's capital, a couple billion ain't that hard

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1. Branson has had a lot more failed business ideas than Trump. Trump has a better batting average. If you like facts, you should be willing to accept those facts. What other personal brands can you think of?
2. One could make a similar claim about a lot of wealthy people yet you only criticize Trump. Just off the top of my head, Biden, Clinton, Sanders all have been caught doing some shady or wicked monetary things. Ethical politicians are in short supply.
3. You don't get it both ways with the numbers. It is also funny that you think the only one who lies about numbers is Trump.
4. Talk is cheap. What have you done to show that you could do the same? Are you a billionaire? Have you overseen millions for others that you grew into billions? And notice how you dodged the question about how much money Donald made for his Dad? That is money you want to pass off as him merely inheriting it. Since you don't know what that number is, you should be very reserved instead of outspoken on this point. It could well be that Donald may have helped his father considerably which would render your "he only inherited it" claim ridiculous.

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1) Show me the data on Branson vs. Trump failures
2) He's a liar, Nobody, including you have a clue what he did for daddy.
3)He does it every day. That MFer cannot tell the truth
4)Not a Billionaire. I've done well and I've done it myself. I've run a $15B company. I've started and sold 2 companies. Currently run 2 companies. I think I have some perspective. So, tell me your experience and expertise.

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You bet. Can't wait to hear about your time as the King of China whenever you decide to regale us with your experiences in that regard.

You couldn't tie Trump's shoes, but I will give you credit for being able to recite many of the talking points liberals like you believe in.

Advanced TDS is real and you're a walking example of it.

Typical lib diversion from you again

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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contrario said:

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NYC has almost half of the US cases. NYC has more cases than every country but 4. Yes, Cuomo is doing a bang up job. If results mattered in politics, he would have been fired this week, but results don't matter. Words are all that matters and he talks a good game that appeals to the dumbest of all of us.

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How exactly was Cuomo supposed to keep people from traveling through the NYC airports from all over the globe in the absence of any federal guidance and with a POTUS who was calling the virus a hoax and not a big threat until Tucker Carlson confronted him at a party.

Mayors are having to step up and do too little too late with inadequate supplies the state and federal governments didn't do their jobs. Cuomo and the mayor of my city both mandated social distancing. My state has far more cases than adjacent states where governors took more aggressive action sooner; our mayor acted as soon as he could to mandate social distancing, quell a revolt among bar owners willing to put the entire city at risk, and shut down non-essential services and businesses. That meant we started behind.

And we don' have the density of New York.

The right-wing media narrative may be to blame local leaders, but a pandemic requires a national response and we started ours months too late.

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I can't believe there are still people who believe Trump called the virus a hoax.
Just FYI - if you want people to take you seriously you can't demonstrate this level of lack of awareness.

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The Guardian is a far more reliable source than you. Among MANY other misleading claims your dear leader has made re: the virus, he called the threat posed by the virus "a hoax."

I can't believe there are still people who believe Trump has shown any sort of leadership in this crisis, much less able leadership.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/28/trump-coronavirus-misleading-claims

I've always known this is a real this is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic. I've always viewed it as very serious'


As is the case with many of Trump's statements, his claim he has always taken the pandemic seriously deviates wildly from his previous comments. Perhaps most infamously, Trump said "I don't take responsibility at all"when asked about the faltering US response.

The president has repeatedly downplayed the threat posed by Covid-19, criticising concern over the crisis as a "hoax", fretting that letting infected Americans off a cruise ship would increase the number of confirmed cases and claiming that only a couple of Americans had it as cases began to soar across the country.

He has compounded this by suggesting social distancing restrictions be lifted around Easter a timeline wildly out of kilter with public health experts who warn this would cause hospitals to overflow with sick and dying patients.

PartyBear said:

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Well now I imagine Barr has told him he can't do it and someone explained he will crash the economy more than he has by mismanaging the virus in the first place. As he just announced he has decided quarantine isn't necessary. What a clown.

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What this did was force Cuomo to say he didn't want a federal lockdown. Now Cuomo won't be able to blame the lack of a lockdown on Trump as they both run for President.

HashTag said:

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PartyBear said:

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I don't think he has the authority to pick one or two states and do a quarantine. Perhaps a POTUS can order a nationwide shelter in place and perhaps he should. NY is already under one though. As are some other states and many cities and counties in states where there isnt one. Nevertheless I can't imagine just announcing you think you can shut down NY is going to sit well with Wall Street. As it is literally in NYC and NYC is modern Rome commerce wise.

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Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

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This statute 42 USC 264 does not allow a federal lock down of states or areas. No where is that topic even hinted at in the statute. It allows for authorization to block an individual infected with a communicable disease from entering the country or a detention/quarantine of that individual for treatment or until well.

PartyBear said:

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HashTag said:

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PartyBear said:

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I don't think he has the authority to pick one or two states and do a quarantine. Perhaps a POTUS can order a nationwide shelter in place and perhaps he should. NY is already under one though. As are some other states and many cities and counties in states where there isnt one. Nevertheless I can't imagine just announcing you think you can shut down NY is going to sit well with Wall Street. As it is literally in NYC and NYC is modern Rome commerce wise.

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Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

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This statute 42 USC 264 does not allow a federal lock down of states or areas. No where is that topic even hinted at in the statute. It allows for authorization to block an individual infected with a communicable disease from entering the country or a detention/quarantine of that individual for treatment or until well.

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While there's nothing says that he can explicitly shut down a state, there's nothing that says he can't either.
__________

Federal law gives Trump vast emergency powers in times of pandemic. He could direct the quarantine of people arriving in the United States who exhibit certain symptoms or even if they're just suspected of having the virus. He could have the federal government detain individuals if their illness might wind up crossing state lines.

And under regulations revised and reissued just before Trump entered office, the government can stop and seize any plane, train or automobile to stymie the spread of contagious disease. Some even interpret the statute as meaning a president could deploy the military to cordon off a city or state.

"The federal public health power is pretty awesome awe-inspiring in its breadth," said Wendy Parmet, a law professor at Northeastern University.

While experts say such measures would be ineffective diverting resources better devoted to scaling up hospitals and aiding people in dire straits due to other impacts of the virus they might be legally possible.

Under the Public Health Service Act, federal authorities can quarantine individuals arriving in the U.S. by air, land or ship if they are suspected of infection with a list of diseases and syndromes set by executive order. The law also gives federal officials the power to try to check the spread of disease between states, although this authority is almost never used to fight human illnesses.

The Centers for Disease Control, however, maintains that its quarantine powers go quite far. Regulations finalized by the Obama administration claim that federal officials can detain individuals if their illness could spread to other states. The rules essentially give the federal government the authority to stop and seize commuters in a bid to halt the spread of contagious disease.

Whether it could allow a president to use the military to cordon off a city or a whole state is less clear, but experts say that the statutes and regulations could be read to allow for that.

"The ability to restrain interstate travel is something that could be done, but the question is would it be done?" said Jennifer Nuzzo of the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. "These are the kinds of scenarios that you think would never happen but here we are."

The CDC maintains a little publicized "do-not-board" list for domestic and international airline travel. Details on the list are thin, but it has included people with tuberculosis and measles. In 2015, CDC formally declared that individuals could be added to the list if they were suspected simply of being exposed to hemorrhagic fevers, like Ebola.

Typically, however, federal officials have relied on state and local health departments to address most disease outbreaks, even sometimes asking them to detain individuals who refuse to cooperate with doctors' recommendations.

Federal regulations give the CDC sweeping powers if a state's measures "are insufficient" to prevent a disease from spreading into another state. The CDC chief is authorized to do what he or she "deems reasonably necessary" under those circumstances. Whether that includes widespread restrictions on movement is unclear.

Parmet, the Northeastern University law professor, stresses that the Constitution still applies. Aggressive federal government action on such vague authority could face legal challenges, especially if the moves don't have a scientific basis.

On the other hand, in a crisis judges tend to defer to executive authorities, including health officials.

Canada2017 said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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contrario said:

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NYC has almost half of the US cases. NYC has more cases than every country but 4. Yes, Cuomo is doing a bang up job. If results mattered in politics, he would have been fired this week, but results don't matter. Words are all that matters and he talks a good game that appeals to the dumbest of all of us.

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How exactly was Cuomo supposed to keep people from traveling through the NYC airports from all over the globe in the absence of any federal guidance and with a POTUS who was calling the virus a hoax and not a big threat until Tucker Carlson confronted him at a party.

Mayors are having to step up and do too little too late with inadequate supplies the state and federal governments didn't do their jobs. Cuomo and the mayor of my city both mandated social distancing. My state has far more cases than adjacent states where governors took more aggressive action sooner; our mayor acted as soon as he could to mandate social distancing, quell a revolt among bar owners willing to put the entire city at risk, and shut down non-essential services and businesses. That meant we started behind.

And we don' have the density of New York.

The right-wing media narrative may be to blame local leaders, but a pandemic requires a national response and we started ours months too late.

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Oh yeah ....

Can just imagine the dozens of toxic posts you would have blasted out if Trump had closed the borders and imposed a total travel ban on all countries back in December, January or February.

Be honest for once ....you would have had an apoplectic fit .

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I love how you state a solution on my behalf that I never argued and then trash me for supporting it when it's your own idea. Your post is a whole barnfull of straw men, and Oz didn't give any of them a brain. And then you have the chutzpah to accuse me of dishonesty. If my ironometer wasn't already broken, that would have done the job.

The lockdowns necessary now show how ill-prepared we were for this pandemic. During the period when we should have been ramping up supplies of masks, ventilators, widely available tests and figuring out the logistics of how we were going to care for an influx of COVID-19 patients along with other patients, Trump was underplaying the threat and not taking these meaningful actions.

Here's how poorly prepared we were: The first responsible parties that took actions to protect me and my family were my employer and my husband's employer. Both moved quickly to a "work at home" policy; we've both been on work-at-home status since March 13.

The following week, after a downtown revolt by bar owners who wanted to continue to cater to hordes of tourists refused "guidelines" of six feet apart and photos of drunken crowds revelling downtown circulated, our mayor enforced a manditory shelter-in-place policy and closed them down. They wouldn't choose to behave responsibly, so the mayor made that choice for them. Prior to that order, my employer had a few "essential" employees still coming to the office. Since that time. we've closed our buildings completely.

NEITHER of those protection actions resulted from federal OR state leadership. Both were made by leaders who looked at the science, determined what they needed to do to protect their employees (and their families) and customers/clients in the short term, and acted quickly to do that.

New York would be a problematic area under any scenario. But, had the Trump administration acted sooner to, for example, mandate mandatory quaratine periods for anyone returning from trips abroad (because, in any airport, you're going to come in contact with people from all over the globe) and NOT done stupid things like evac people with COVID-19 and those not showing symptoms in the SAME PLANE with a plastic barrier in place, AND if they had acted--as Germany did--to have tests ready so people with COVID could be quickly identified and quaratined, we might have a better outcome. Whatever the death rate, COVID makes you really sick. I won't be surprised if people with bad cases find they have permanent lung damage.

Trump was caught with his pants down, has never admitted it, and only started taking it seriously thanks to Tucker Carlson. When Tucker Carlson has to convince our POTUS to take a threat like COVID seriously, we're in big trouble.

The only solution to prevent whats occurring would have been to close our borders along with a full international travel ban...... back in January.

Period

Our people are far too entitled and selfish to affect anything approaching real containment now that the virus is among us .


You are educated enough to realize this.....but your wide array of hatreds will permit only more deflections .

A good article that explains some of the consequences of being unprepared/not taking Covid=19 seriously until it was too late: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/28/voices-from-the-pandemic-indiana-man-recounts-partners-death-from-coronavirus/?arc404=true&utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most

I think she'd been feeling bad for a few days, but I don't remember much about what happened early on. She wasn't a complainer, and I'm not always the best at noticing. There was a cough somewhere in there. Probably a touch of a fever. But this was a few weeks back, when those things didn't mean so much. I thought she had a cold, or maybe bronchitis. She would get that sometimes, lose her voice and be fine a few days later, no big deal. But then she woke me up at about 4 in the morning and kept pointing to her throat. She said she couldn't sleep. Said her eyes hurt. Said it felt like somebody was pounding on top of her head. Birdie's usually one of those who wants to rub some dirt on it and keep moving, so when she told me to take her to the emergency room, I knew it was serious. I knew she was sick.

First it was a fever of 103. Then the doctors decided it was pneumonia and went ahead and admitted her. Then it was pneumonia in both of her lungs. If anybody was thinking it was the coronavirus, I didn't hear it at least not at first. Nobody in Indiana had it yet. Even if it was killing people in Washington state and starting to infect people in New York, it was basically happening on TV.

The best precautions weren't taken in the early stages. A few nurses wore gloves or masks when they came to see Birdie, but that seemed normal for treating pneumonia. I didn't wear anything, and nobody really asked me to. I was lying next to her in the bed or sitting in a chair and holding her hand. She didn't have much other family, and if I got up to go out into the hallway for a few minutes, I'd kiss her goodbye.

Would it have gone any different if they knew what it was? Maybe. Or maybe they would have quarantined her right then, and I would have lost a few more days with her.

See, I could analyze this to death. I'll be doing this for the rest of my life.

It was hard for me to sit there. I'm almost ashamed to say that, but it's true. She was in the bed, and I was usually a few feet away in the recliner. It was two or three days in that room, but each one felt like a year. I'm not a natural caretaker, and never claimed to be, but it seemed like no matter what I tried, I couldn't help her. It was just watch, wait, touch her forehead, apologize. I couldn't do anything. Nobody could.

She was taking so much oxygen, but it was never enough. She had two little tubes put in her nose, and she couldn't get enough air. They put a big mask on her face to get her oxygen back up, and that made her claustrophobic and panicky. She got real freaked out. I tried to count breaths with her. I kept saying: "Easy. Easy. In, out. In, out." I couldn't distract her because she was so deep in her head with panic. It labored her to talk. It labored her to breathe. I said, "Don't talk then, honey. Save your energy." There was a TV in there, but neither of us could focus on it. I sat in the quiet with her, for whatever comfort that might have brought her. I don't know. I listened to her breathing. I watched her. When she was asleep she was taking these real quick, short breaths, like she was gulping air more than breathing it. When she was awake, she was kind of mumbling to herself. Maybe it was the medication they were giving her. I hope to God it was the medication. She was talking about how her eyes hurt, her insides hurt. She would clutch her fists and hit the bed and stuff, and you don't really know how to help somebody in that frame. I mean, when she's just clutching her fists and moaning and I don't know. I don't know what I could have done. I sat there for as long as I could and then I got up every few hours to pace the hallway, or I'd drive eight minutes home to feed the dogs. I was starting to go a little crazy myself. I couldn't keep sitting there, feeling helpless, listening to her breathe.

It was an awful time. I should be thankful she's not suffering anymore, but she did suffer some.

It got worse. Her breaths got raspy. Shorter. They put her on life support. They rolled her across the hall one afternoon and tested her for the virus. At some point in there, I went home after midnight to check on the dogs, and when I came back early the next morning there was a sign that said "No Visitors" taped to the door of the hallway that led to her room. The whole thing became confusing to me. They said I couldn't go in. They said nobody could. I sat in the waiting room for hours. I peeked through the window down the hallway once and saw them moving her to a different room. It looked like she was sleeping with the tube down her throat. The doctor said she was heavily sedated to stay comfortable. I'd like to believe that, but I don't know if she was comfortable or not.

When they said the test was positive, that's when I started thinking this virus was a death sentence for her. She had every underlying condition it attacks. Damaged lungs. High blood pressure. Her body wasn't strong enough. She was lying there waiting to die.

The doctors told me to go home, but I didn't. Most of the time I sat by the elevators in the waiting room. Nobody else was in there. Sometimes one of Birdie's friends would come sit with me. The doctors kept saying, "No change." "No change." It had been five days now since she'd woken me up pointing at her throat. They sent a chaplain to talk to me. Their voices kind of kept getting softer and softer. Everyone knew what was coming. I was up most nights and sleeping some in the day. My body wore down. I started coughing, and they told me I didn't have a choice. They said I needed to go home and quarantine.

I walked circles in the house. I'm 62, fairly healthy but not indestructible, and now I'm worrying about Birdie but also about my own mortality. Pretty soon the hospital started calling me to ask about unplugging her. They said her kidneys were shutting down. That it was my decision. I told them: "How can I turn her off without looking at her? I can't take your word on this. She might be doing jumping jacks for all I know. I need to see her." That's when they started talking about setting up a video call, so they could take her off some of the meds and I could say some kind of goodbye.