Flaming Moderate said:

---

fadskier said:

---

blackie said:

---

I think to be fair in hindsight, some here that throw out the "TDS" label freely at the hint of any criticism should have been diagnosed as having "ODS" a few years ago. I'll assume you are smart enough to be able to figure out what the "O" in that means.

Trump does some things good and some things bad, but the disappointment I see in some posters is that defense of him is done for some things that just don't deserve any support, and it is obvious to anyone not wearing orange colored glasses.

I think any terms like "TDS" or "ODS" are really childish attempts to ridicule the poster verses to legitimately debate the issue. But that happens quite frequently in this forum whether it be political or something else.

---

I only use it when people post frequently over the most trivial of events OR when they continue to post misquotes or debunked quotes/theories.

---

Unfortunately, this is not really unique to Trump. Bush received pretty similar treatment IIRC. I realize this is naive, but if we all could agree only to discuss reality vs. accusations, we could have healthier discussions. But we're all addicted to winning at all cost.

---

It was done to Obama but I've never seen anything like what has been done to Trump. Some people (jinx, waco47) are offended daily by everything he does. It's just completely amazing.

I voted for Obama the first time and then learned there was no hope or change BUT I did not come on a university message board (or any message board for that matter) and rant...

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

You are an idiot for posting that garbage. You, the radical extremists on the left and the radical extremists on the right, are what's wrong with our country. You are seriously as dumb as the Democrats that burned crosses outside of black churches.

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

Was watching Patrick's appearance on Carlson in real time. His position has to be be one of the most misrepresented (or, lied about) statements of all time. TDS/PDS. Incredible.

fadskier said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

fadskier said:

---

blackie said:

---

I think to be fair in hindsight, some here that throw out the "TDS" label freely at the hint of any criticism should have been diagnosed as having "ODS" a few years ago. I'll assume you are smart enough to be able to figure out what the "O" in that means.

Trump does some things good and some things bad, but the disappointment I see in some posters is that defense of him is done for some things that just don't deserve any support, and it is obvious to anyone not wearing orange colored glasses.

I think any terms like "TDS" or "ODS" are really childish attempts to ridicule the poster verses to legitimately debate the issue. But that happens quite frequently in this forum whether it be political or something else.

---

I only use it when people post frequently over the most trivial of events OR when they continue to post misquotes or debunked quotes/theories.

---

Unfortunately, this is not really unique to Trump. Bush received pretty similar treatment IIRC. I realize this is naive, but if we all could agree only to discuss reality vs. accusations, we could have healthier discussions. But we're all addicted to winning at all cost.

---

It was done to Obama but I've never seen anything like what has been done to Trump. Some people (jinx, waco47) are offended daily by everything he does. It's just completely amazing.

I voted for Obama the first time and then learned there was no hope or change BUT I did not come on a university message board (or any message board for that matter) and rant...

---

This may be totally wrong, but I think it is a matter of degree. There always are hyper-partisan groups on both sides, and I sort of assume that those folks are going to snip regardless, and I discount them. However, what I think we see with Bush and to unprecedented levels with Trump is the "mainstream" people doing it. It is things like constantly mis-characterizing the Charlottesville quote - you just do not see that occurring with others. The problem is that creates a cynicism and mistrust. Take on the other thread, the CBS using Italy footage to portray New York. Why do you think it would do that?

Flaming Moderate said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

fadskier said:

---

blackie said:

---

I think to be fair in hindsight, some here that throw out the "TDS" label freely at the hint of any criticism should have been diagnosed as having "ODS" a few years ago. I'll assume you are smart enough to be able to figure out what the "O" in that means.

Trump does some things good and some things bad, but the disappointment I see in some posters is that defense of him is done for some things that just don't deserve any support, and it is obvious to anyone not wearing orange colored glasses.

I think any terms like "TDS" or "ODS" are really childish attempts to ridicule the poster verses to legitimately debate the issue. But that happens quite frequently in this forum whether it be political or something else.

---

I only use it when people post frequently over the most trivial of events OR when they continue to post misquotes or debunked quotes/theories.

---

Unfortunately, this is not really unique to Trump. Bush received pretty similar treatment IIRC. I realize this is naive, but if we all could agree only to discuss reality vs. accusations, we could have healthier discussions. But we're all addicted to winning at all cost.

---

It was done to Obama but I've never seen anything like what has been done to Trump. Some people (jinx, waco47) are offended daily by everything he does. It's just completely amazing.

I voted for Obama the first time and then learned there was no hope or change BUT I did not come on a university message board (or any message board for that matter) and rant...

---

This may be totally wrong, but I think it is a matter of degree. There always are hyper-partisan groups on both sides, and I sort of assume that those folks are going to snip regardless, and I discount them. However, what I think we see with Bush and to unprecedented levels with Trump is the "mainstream" people doing it. It is things like constantly mis-characterizing the Charlottesville quote - you just do not see that occurring with others. The problem is that creates a cynicism and mistrust. Take on the other thread, the CBS using Italy footage to portray New York. Why do you think it would do that?

---

I agree. Part of the panic of this Covid-19 is the mainstream media WANTING us to panic. They have even on again partially-quoted Trump just to make him look bad. Luckily, most Americans are now fully on board the media slander.

curtpenn said:

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Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

Was watching Patrick's appearance on Carlson in real time. His position has to be be one of the most misrepresented (or, lied about) statements of all time. TDS/PDS. Incredible.

---

Agree. Not even close.

I'm shocked

TexasScientist said:

---

TDS is a continuum between derangement and delusion. It can apply equally to left and right.

---

Uh huh

Oh yeah

You're right, kid

riflebear said:

---

I'm shocked

---

^^^ Who'd a thunk it?

Lmao

Florda_mike said:

---

riflebear said:

---

I'm shocked

---

^^^ Who'd a thunk it?

Lmao

---

Guy is dead because his wife is an idiot. That is not a reason to laugh.

D. C. Bear said:

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Florda_mike said:

---

riflebear said:

---

I'm shocked

---

^^^ Who'd a thunk it?

Lmao

---

Guy is dead because his wife is an idiot. That is not a reason to laugh.

---

Oh I see now

Sorry about that miss

Thought it only was talking about her and didn't realize this was case where someone died

Again sorry I missed that

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

Johnny Bear said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

---

If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

---

If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

---

So it's all those Tea Party Republicans partying in the streets at WVU, flocking to the beaches on the coasts, and spreading COVID-19 like wildfire throughout New York City? I was on board with your post until you jumped the shark with your last sentence.

Are you a millennial?

FormerFlash said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

---

If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

---

So it's all those Tea Party Republicans partying in the streets at WVU, flocking to the beaches on the coasts, and spreading COVID-19 like wildfire throughout New York City? I was on board with your post until you jumped the shark with your last sentence.

---

No, but it is primarily Republicans, most of the Tea Party variety, who are advocating that we open all businesses and send everyone back to work before COVID-19 has been contained. The people you described, who are ignoring recommendations in the interest of partying, are selfish morons. That's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones who are taking an ideological stance against our current containment measures. That group is comprised almost exclusively of Tea Party Republicans, many of whom are too damn smart to be so shortsighted.

I think all of us here want a quick recovery with minimum casualties. I disagree with some of the actions taken, and grieve for the costs at different levels and of different kinds. Even when I understand with an action, I see problems with many of the assumptions.

That means that I will disagree somewhat with most here. For example, keeping distance does matter in protecting people from infection, especially since some can infect others when they show no signs themselves. That's why, even though my wife shows no symptoms from her trip to Hong Kong, she and I and our daughter have been self-quarantining. I do not want to take the chance of causing anyone to catch the virus, no matter how small the risk.

But with that said, I see the cost this virus is taking on real people. My company's receptionist, for example, cannot work because her duty does not allow her to work from home - so a single mom with a disabled son is losing paychecks because a judge - who is personally getting every penny of her pay, by the way - says she has to stay home. We had to let a temp employee go for the same reason, and she too is raising a family by herself but is now unemployed for no reason besides a judge's order.

The shutdown order is bull**** as put into place. I agree that restaurants and night clubs where hundreds of people would gather are a risk, but hundreds of people enter grocery stores at a time, while businesses which see less then 50 people in a day are shut down for no good reason. Liquor stores are designated "essential", no one can say why, but it's illegal to have a Bible study.

And we the people did not get to vote even once on this.

Like I said, there's some good reasons behind some of the actions, and there's some stupidity all around which gets sold as necessary just because somebody popular gets behind it.

The longer things are shut down, the higher the number of people who will lose their livelihood over business closures. Many small businesses are not capable of withstanding a 3+ month loss of revenue. Everyone wants to protect the health and well being of others. At the same time, we have to determine the right course of action and time frame for lowering the spread of the virus while also getting Americans back to work. Shooting too far one way or the other on the time frame will have dire consequences one way or another. We can't all rush back to work and see the virus spread out of control. We also can't take a 12 month hiatus from business "just to be sure" without ruining the lives and businesses of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Being realistic about ramifications of a prolonged economic shutdown isn't inconsiderate or insensitive to the virus and it's effects. Ignoring that side of the conversation would be a grave mistake.

And others seem to be struggling with the concept that it is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time, meaning we can take prudent and reasonable precautions to protect everyone, including the most vulnerable, against the virus while at the same time cautiously reopening the economy and thereby rescuing a far, far greater number of vulnerable people from certain economic disaster. It isn't an either or choice between killing the elderly or saving the economy.

Furthermore, you keep referring to the nursing home residents in Washington that recently died. Yes, it's tragic and sad if coronavirus ended up being the thing that finally ended their lives, but let's face it - with extremely rare exceptions if you're in a nursing home you are near or at death's door as it is and something is going to finally push you over the edge usually sooner rather than later, be it coronavirus or any of a number of other things. I will repeat, if coronavirus cost these unfortunate people some extra days, weeks, months or even one or more years of their lives, that's sad and that's a tragedy. In the big picture, however, a far, far greater tragedy and disaster is in the process of unfolding for millions of Americans if we continue to treat this situation as an "either or choice".

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

---

If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

---

Tap the brakes there assigning blame to the tea party republicans. I happen to be one of those you describe yet, I agree with you on Patrick and especially agree with your second paragraph above. I seriously doubt there has been any polling supporting your assertion. It is simply that, a wrong assertion by you, another (feel in category of political ilk).

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

---

If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

---

Tap the brakes there assigning blame to the tea party republicans. I happen to be one of those you describe yet, I agree with you on Patrick and especially agree with your second paragraph above. I seriously doubt there has been any polling supporting your assertion. It is simply that, a wrong assertion by you, another (feel in category of political ilk).

---

I'm not suggesting that all Tea Party Republicans share Dan Patrick's opinion. I'm saying the vast majority who do are Tea Party Republicans.

It's an ideological debate that only that group seems to be having.

If my posts above don't describe you, then don't be offended. I'm not talking about you. But if you are offended by proxy or feel a tribal obligation to defend a viewpoint you don't even share, I would be interested in knowing the why behind that response.

Johnny Bear said:

---

And others seem to be struggling with the concept that it is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time, meaning we can take prudent and reasonable precautions to protect everyone, including the most vulnerable, against the virus while at the same time cautiously reopening the economy and thereby rescuing a far, far greater number of vulnerable people from certain economic disaster. It isn't an either or choice between killing the elderly or saving the economy.

Furthermore, you keep referring to the nursing home residents in Washington that recently died. Yes, it's tragic and sad if coronavirus ended up being the thing that finally ended their lives, but let's face it - with extremely rare exceptions if you're in a nursing home you are near or at death's door as it is and something is going to finally push you over the edge usually sooner rather than later, be it coronavirus or any of a number of other things. I will repeat, if coronavirus cost these unfortunate people some extra days, weeks, months or even one or more years of their lives, that's sad and that's a tragedy. In the big picture, however, a far, far greater tragedy and disaster is in the process of unfolding for millions of Americans if we continue to treat this situation as an "either or choice".

---

No one is struggling with that concept. We've just listened to both the medical experts and economists, who share a consensus that what you're suggesting here is impossible.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, it absolutely is an either/or choice. We are in a no-win situation, and our choice is short-term economic gains (that will end as soon as our hospitals are overrun) or our current containment efforts.

There is simply no way to open businesses back up right now without dramatically increasing the spread of COVID-19 -- the effects of which would trickle down to the nation's most vulnerable populations. Trump's own people are saying that 100,000-200,000 American deaths is the best case scenario with our current containment protocols, and we've still got people here who think we can "walk and chew gum at the same time" without catastrophic results.

FormerFlash said:

---

The longer things are shut down, the higher the number of people who will lose their livelihood over business closures. Many small businesses are not capable of withstanding a 3+ month loss of revenue. Everyone wants to protect the health and well being of others. At the same time, we have to determine the right course of action and time frame for lowering the spread of the virus while also getting Americans back to work. Shooting too far one way or the other on the time frame will have dire consequences one way or another. We can't all rush back to work and see the virus spread out of control. We also can't take a 12 month hiatus from business "just to be sure" without ruining the lives and businesses of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Being realistic about ramifications of a prolonged economic shutdown isn't inconsiderate or insensitive to the virus and it's effects. Ignoring that side of the conversation would be a grave mistake.

---

I think everyone understands this. We'll all feel the economic effects of this pandemic in one way or another. Many of us already have. No one is ignoring that side of the conversation. We're just acknowledging the grim reality that there's no real choice to be made here. We can either do what we're doing until we get the all clear from the experts or we can watch hundreds of thousands of people die needlessly, and the economy take an inevitable hit anyway.

There seems to be this view among some that only hard right ideologues care about the economy. That's simply not true. Every country in the world cares about its economy and virtually all are taking the same approach we are. That's because there's no valid alternative. No one on the planet would rather return to business as usual more or faster than Donald Trump. But with the best available information at his disposal, he's extended the "lockdown" another month.

Even he knows this is what it is. There's no winning scenario here. You're either losing life or money.

bear2be2 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

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Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

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This is TDS.

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That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

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Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

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He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

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Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

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I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

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Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

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If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

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Tap the brakes there assigning blame to the tea party republicans. I happen to be one of those you describe yet, I agree with you on Patrick and especially agree with your second paragraph above. I seriously doubt there has been any polling supporting your assertion. It is simply that, a wrong assertion by you, another (feel in category of political ilk).

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I'm not suggesting that all Tea Party Republicans share Dan Patrick's opinion. I'm saying the vast majority who do are Tea Party Republicans.

It's an ideological debate that only that group seems to be having.

If my posts above don't describe you, then don't be offended. I'm not talking about you. But if you are offended by proxy or feel a tribal obligation to defend a viewpoint you don't even share, I would be interested in knowing the why behind that response.

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You probably wondered why Baylor football players were upset when fans of other schools called them rapist. Lots of words but very little logic. Try again.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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bear2be2 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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fadskier said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Flaming Moderate said:

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jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

---

If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

---

Tap the brakes there assigning blame to the tea party republicans. I happen to be one of those you describe yet, I agree with you on Patrick and especially agree with your second paragraph above. I seriously doubt there has been any polling supporting your assertion. It is simply that, a wrong assertion by you, another (feel in category of political ilk).

---

I'm not suggesting that all Tea Party Republicans share Dan Patrick's opinion. I'm saying the vast majority who do are Tea Party Republicans.

It's an ideological debate that only that group seems to be having.

If my posts above don't describe you, then don't be offended. I'm not talking about you. But if you are offended by proxy or feel a tribal obligation to defend a viewpoint you don't even share, I would be interested in knowing the why behind that response.

---

You probably wondered why Baylor football players were upset when fans of other schools called them rapist. Lots of words but very little logic. Try again.

---

So are you offended by proxy or defending a viewpoint you don't actually share? I've explained since my first post, which admittedly could have been worded better, exactly who I'm talking about and it's not you. So why are you so triggered?

bear2be2 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

---

If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

---

Tap the brakes there assigning blame to the tea party republicans. I happen to be one of those you describe yet, I agree with you on Patrick and especially agree with your second paragraph above. I seriously doubt there has been any polling supporting your assertion. It is simply that, a wrong assertion by you, another (feel in category of political ilk).

---

I'm not suggesting that all Tea Party Republicans share Dan Patrick's opinion. I'm saying the vast majority who do are Tea Party Republicans.

It's an ideological debate that only that group seems to be having.

If my posts above don't describe you, then don't be offended. I'm not talking about you. But if you are offended by proxy or feel a tribal obligation to defend a viewpoint you don't even share, I would be interested in knowing the why behind that response.

---

Genuinely curious, not arguing with you. What database do you use to identify tea party Republicans. I honestly did not even know those groups were still around. How do identify and track them? (serious question) I can see "Bernie voters" or "Trump supporters" but how do you know who is in one of the tea party groups?

bear2be2 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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bear2be2 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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fadskier said:

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Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

---

I've watched the interview. He introduced the idea of senior citizens sacrificing to limit the economic impact felt by their children and grandchildren, using himself as the hypothetical example.

It was another case of empty grandstanding and opportunism -- two hallmarks of his political career.

---

Only if you consider a practical, common sense recommendation to be "empty grandstanding and opportunism". And I totally believe his anecdotal claim about many senior citizens believing they're smart enough to take the proper precautions and protect themselves without destroying the lives and economic futures of their kids and their grand kids. I'm one of them.

---

If only those poor *******s in that Washington nursing home had been smart enough to take the proper precautions and preotect themselves ...

These measures aren't in place to protect Dan Patrick or you. They're in place to protect those who can't protect themselves and to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

This isn't about any individual's health. It's about the greater good. For some reason, many (mostly tea party Republicans) seem to be struggling with this concept.

---

Tap the brakes there assigning blame to the tea party republicans. I happen to be one of those you describe yet, I agree with you on Patrick and especially agree with your second paragraph above. I seriously doubt there has been any polling supporting your assertion. It is simply that, a wrong assertion by you, another (feel in category of political ilk).

---

I'm not suggesting that all Tea Party Republicans share Dan Patrick's opinion. I'm saying the vast majority who do are Tea Party Republicans.

It's an ideological debate that only that group seems to be having.

If my posts above don't describe you, then don't be offended. I'm not talking about you. But if you are offended by proxy or feel a tribal obligation to defend a viewpoint you don't even share, I would be interested in knowing the why behind that response.

---

You probably wondered why Baylor football players were upset when fans of other schools called them rapist. Lots of words but very little logic. Try again.

---

So are you offended by proxy or defending a viewpoint you don't actually share? I've explained since my first post, which admittedly could have been worded better, exactly who I'm talking about and it's not you. So why are you so triggered?

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The flaming moderate was a step ahead of me.

Imagine getting a classification lecture from a group that labels anyone left of George H.W. a socialist.

But Tea Party Republicans can be loosely defined as the most ideologically conservative wing of the Republican Party, particularly on fiscal issues, which (when taken to its extremes) can produce opinions like those bearitto has quite proudly shared on this board.

And more narrowly defined, the Tea Party proper has blessed us with the only congressman to mock COVID-19 by wearing a gas mask to a funding vote (Matt Gaetz), the two most prominent men to call for senior citizens to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the economy (Dan Patrick and Glenn Beck) and the only university president I'm aware of to call his students back to class in the middle of a pandemic out of principle (Jerry Falwell Jr.).

If these views don't match your own, I am not talking about you. But if you don't know who I'm talking about at this stage, you haven't been paying attention.

There has only been one ideological sect that has vocalized these types of opinions. And even if it's just a vocal minority of Tea Party Republicans who have so brazenly prioritized the economy over human health/life during this crisis, it's one the right must own, account for and call out as extreme.

TLDR: bear2be2 just threw out an emotional label.

No facts involved. If he doesn't like you, you get 'the label'.

The tea party never was about fiscal issues, it was always cultural issues they were really about but claimed it was fiscal issues they were concerned about to be more politically presentable. If they were about fiscal issues, they would have risen up during the Bush era rabidly upset about Clinton surpluses being turned back into huge deficits and then not have gone silent during Trump's fiscal nightmare. They aren't about balanced budgets etc at all in reality.

Too broad a brush. If you have watched Rick Santelli on CNBC from the floor of the CME his opposition to stimulus plans, i.e. bailouts, created the tea party remark in Chicago which spread.

There are many many Tea Party believers who firmly believe the government has caused fiscal foolishness.

Since Tea Party believers are mainly from the GOP those who tend to vote Republican will do so whether there is fiscal responsibility or not.

My point is MOST Americans are not interested in fiscal responsible. A person tends to be conservative if it's going out and liberal if its coming in.

I'm not sure why disasters happen during Republican administrations but it does give one pause that Democrats use to talk about balanced budgets. Trump is the furthest from Tea Party as Bernie Sanders.

AOC has been a thorn in the butt of Pelosi so much that even Nancy has gone full nut job on the left.

bear2be2 said:

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Imagine getting a classification lecture from a group that labels anyone left of George H.W. a socialist.

But Tea Party Republicans can be loosely defined as the most ideologically conservative wing of the Republican Party, particularly on fiscal issues, which (when taken to its extremes) can produce opinions like those bearitto has quite proudly shared on this board.

And more narrowly defined, the Tea Party proper has blessed us with the only congressman to mock COVID-19 by wearing a gas mask to a funding vote (Matt Gaetz), the two most prominent men to call for senior citizens to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the economy (Dan Patrick and Glenn Beck) and the only university president I'm aware of to call his students back to class in the middle of a pandemic out of principle (Jerry Falwell Jr.).

If these views don't match your own, I am not talking about you. But if you don't know who I'm talking about at this stage, you haven't been paying attention.

There has only been one ideological sect that has vocalized these types of opinions. And even if it's just a vocal minority of Tea Party Republicans who have so brazenly prioritized the economy over human health/life during this crisis, it's one the right must own, account for and call out as extreme.

---

I'm honestly seeking to understand. Are you identifying anyone you disagree with as a "Tea Party Republican" or are they self-identifying. I also did not even realize Glenn Beck was still around. I just have not heard the phrase "Tea Party" in a long time. Are there Tea Party facebook groups or somesuch calling for a return to normal.

I just did a quick search, and I guess www.teaparty.org is the group? I did not see any calls for senior citizen sacrifices. How are they proposing sacrificing senior citizens? Is the thought that if we "sacrifice" them to the Wuhan it will go away, like a virgin sacrifice? How do they propose said sacrifices occur?

Johnny Bear said:

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fadskier said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Flaming Moderate said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Orange man good, its the only play in their playbook. Aren't you willing to throw away your parents and grandparents for the "Cause"?

---

This is TDS.

---

That's not even about Trump. It's about Dan Patrick's stupid ass.

Is it in poor taste? Probably. But so is the lieutenant governor of Texas suggesting that senior citizens should sacrifice their lives for the economy during a global pandemic.

---

Of course he said nothing of the sort, but please carry on with your false narrative.

---

He actually did suggest that. I am a mostly-Republican voter but Patrick is a complete embarrassment.

---

Wrong. Listen to all of the actual interview he did with Tucker Carlson in context.

I did. He's suggesting that grandparents would die to save their grandchildren's economy.

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