Jack Bauer said:
I will apologize for this white person doing this...you could tell me this was Sacha Baren Cohen disguised as a DJ pranking the world and I would believe you.
Again,Porteroso said:I agree that communities tend to have different struggles. We'll just see what he says. I really wonder how he knows so much about all black Americans, internally, that he can tell us they won't face their problems. Like I said, an incredible statement.D. C. Bear said:I was answering you question about familial breakup.Porteroso said:I'm not saying all cultures experience all problems equally. I want to understand, before going off on oldbear, why he thinks blacks are "unwilling to address their own internal issues."D. C. Bear said:
While familial breakup is not exclusively an African American issue, it is a much more pronounced issue when it comes to African American children.
https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/bar/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race?loc=1&loct=1#1/any/false/37/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/431
I am going to assume the Annie E. Casey Foundation is providing legitimate data.
That's an incredible statement on several levels, and I'm blown away enough that I want to understand more of why he thinks that, or even finds that to be an acceptable thing to say. I get that it's the internet and all, but still.
The problem with his statement is that it treats an entire ethnic group as monolithic. There are, however, a wide number of problems in the African American community that tend to be more severe than those same problems in the broader population. There are also those who benefit from a poor relationship between law enforcement and the African American community.
Black Americans face 1 major challenge, generational poverty. For the sake of argument, take an educated white person. If that person falls into poverty for more than 3 years, the chances of regaining economic stability are very slim. Many black Americans coming from generational poverty never have a real shot. We can talk (and many on this forum do) about how everyone has the chance to make something of themselves, but it's not really true, if you've ever cared to even read an article about it. Poverty, especially when it's the only condition your entire family, and your friends, have ever known, is incredibly difficult to come out of. And it doesn't just affect blacks, there are Hispanic, white, Native American families that deal with it, and it's hard for any of them to come out of it.
My opinion is that we could combat poverty in a way that doesn't account for race, just bend over backwards at the local, state, and federal level, to give anyone in poverty a real chance at a great education. You could get all of America behind that, but before we can talk about that, we have to recognize that poverty is a problem, and we need to recognize that for many reasons, generational poverty, especially generational poverty that traces its roots back to slavery, is really, really bad for society.
And here we are, back at square one. Oldbear, why does "ignorance" so succinctly describe "generational poverty that traces its roots back to slavery?"
Anecdotal does not make an argument. He made his argument but it was a really poor one one person's opinionJack Bauer said:That's exactly what this is....one guy just made his argument.Waco1947 said:One guy does not make his argumentJack Bauer said:
Waco1947 said:Anecdotal does not make an argument. He made his argument but it was a really poor one one person's opinionJack Bauer said:That's exactly what this is....one guy just made his argument.Waco1947 said:One guy does not make his argumentJack Bauer said:
You're just incapable of having a real conversation. You won't talk about anything that doesn't fit your worldview. I'm not being nice about calling you out, and so what? I'm a tyrant? Go grab an ole Merriam Webster, one as old as you, and you won't find a definition of tyrant that fits me.Oldbear83 said:
All you have is your tired, bitter dishonest rhetoric.
You deny all the good done, and all the good people.
You are a small, petty tyrant who can only see bigotry because that's all you have in your own heart.
Porteroso said:Oldbear83 said:
All you have is your tired, bitter dishonest rhetoric.
You deny all the good done, and all the good people.
You are a small, petty tyrant who can only see bigotry because that's all you have in your own heart.
I have a lot of love in my heart, and grace, and acceptance, because god knows we all need it. You're a disgusting human being if you're being real .
Waco1947 said:
" Now, we are being shown how limited our vision is.
Because we have never been on the other side, we largely do not recognize the structural access we enjoy, the trust we think we deserve, the assumption that we always belong and do not have to earn our belonging. All this we take for granted as normal. Only the outsider can spot these attitudes in us. And we are quick to dismiss what is apparent to our neighbors who are Black, Indigenous, and People of Color from their lived experience." Richard Rohr
You're right, not that much love. I do try though. It's easier to respect a person who's trying for some measure of justice, and harder when people like oldbear use their ancestors to try to dismiss their responsibility to fight racism. This is what I get for late night posts. I still prefer to think oldbear is a 50 year old troll.Canada2017 said:chucklePorteroso said:Oldbear83 said:
All you have is your tired, bitter dishonest rhetoric.
You deny all the good done, and all the good people.
You are a small, petty tyrant who can only see bigotry because that's all you have in your own heart.
I have a lot of love in my heart, and grace, and acceptance, because god knows we all need it. You're a disgusting human being if you're being real .
Gotta luv the internet
What is bs about it? You don't think black people get to have their own perspective, their own voice? Why would you think you can dismiss other people's experiences?Johnny Bear said:Waco1947 said:
" Now, we are being shown how limited our vision is.
Because we have never been on the other side, we largely do not recognize the structural access we enjoy, the trust we think we deserve, the assumption that we always belong and do not have to earn our belonging. All this we take for granted as normal. Only the outsider can spot these attitudes in us. And we are quick to dismiss what is apparent to our neighbors who are Black, Indigenous, and People of Color from their lived experience." Richard Rohr
What a bunch of leftist BS.
Why do other people think that they can dismiss mine? Or that their experiences are superior to mine?Porteroso said:What is bs about it? You don't think black people get to have their own perspective, their own voice? Why would you think you can dismiss other people's experiences?Johnny Bear said:Waco1947 said:
" Now, we are being shown how limited our vision is.
Because we have never been on the other side, we largely do not recognize the structural access we enjoy, the trust we think we deserve, the assumption that we always belong and do not have to earn our belonging. All this we take for granted as normal. Only the outsider can spot these attitudes in us. And we are quick to dismiss what is apparent to our neighbors who are Black, Indigenous, and People of Color from their lived experience." Richard Rohr
What a bunch of leftist BS.
My father started coaching and teaching at SHHS three years after Starr graduated and was there until moving on to BU in '73. Although there was the occasional militant confrontation, there was mostly a peaceful coexistence. Many of his black athletes spent more time in our home eating my mother's biscuits than they did in their own homes.curtpenn said:Trivia note: most of the kids in my neighborhood went to Ken Starr's alma mater, Sam Houston HS. My mother was a public school teacher and didn't want me going there. There were a few ways to get a transfer from one's newly designated district. One way was to take courses not offered in your assigned school. Mostly intended for vocational education. Anyway, I ended up attending Highlands by taking Russian. They had a wonderful guy who managed to escape the USSR and found his way to Texas teaching his native language. I've been interested in Russia ever since. Yeah, just turned 65 recently, too. Old fart here.Canada2017 said:curtpenn said:Stayed home several days my senior year due to random hallway beatings perpetrated by blacks. Was just glad to leave. Went to Baylor where these problems didn't exist. Takeway/lesson? Obviously, my quality of life was better in the bubble.engiBEAR said:It sounds like you and I came from similar backgrounds. I too had loving and involved parents, though we didn't have much money either. I had a better start than some but had disadvantages compared to others. It sounds like you did, too.bearassnekkid said:I had the "advantage" of living in a home with two loving parents, who set good examples for me and had high expectations of me. We didn't have money though. So what?engiBEAR said:Good question, and I'll answer: no, I don't blame anyone for enjoying a privilege. I've enjoyed quite a bit of privilege myself. I've also worked hard to get to where I am in life. Neither takes away from the other, and I'm comfortable with that. The reality is that I, as a white male, had opportunities in life that some of my black/brown peers haven't. Not all, but many of those instances, are because of the "hand I was dealt", which are either directly or indirectly linked to my race/ethnicity. My connections in life, whether it be from friends, family, church, etc. got me the opportunities I had. Thankfully, I worked hard and took advantage of them. But I can tell you from experience that I almost assuredly wouldn't have those connections if I wasn't white. I can give examples if you'd like. The point is not that privileged people can't take advantage of their privilege - heck, even build on it (like in your example of your friend's inheritance). The point is that we shouldn't be naive to think that privilege doesn't play a part and be comfortable enough to admit that to ourselves and others. As I said, I'm perfectly fine saying that I'm fortunate and was privileged to be given the opportunity for success that I was. It doesn't mean that my hard work didn't matter -- it just means that my hard work was a little (or a lot) more efficient because I didn't have to prove I belonged in the process.bearassnekkid said:Serious question: What is wrong with enjoying a privilege? I know people who have money because it was passed down to them by their parents (who worked hard and saved so they could give it to their children). Should those people feel bad that their parents left them money? Should they not enjoy the gift they received, simply because it wasn't something everyone else got? Did you ever get a bike one year for Christmas? Did you feel horrible about it, and refuse to enjoy it because some other kids didn't get a bike? The "privilege" talking point is moronic. I wasn't born with the ability to run a 4.3 forty yard dash. But I'm not telling the guy who was that he should feel bad about it, and that it isn't fair that he got a college scholarship, and that he should apologize for using his advantage and running faster than me. Life isn't fair. I'm not "owed" anything, nor do I expect outside forces to "level the playing field" for me.engiBEAR said:Perhaps it's worth an honest self-evaluation and deciding if you are quiet about this because you actually do enjoy the privileges you've enjoyed in your life? I'd have to say that you are compliant if you don't disagree with what's going on in our society.whitetrash said:What if we speak up and tell him to STFU? Can't be accused of being silent then.Jack Bauer said:
Stephen A just told white people that if they are silent, then they are compliant.
Must be why every single upper-class white woman has to post a 3 paragraph statement on Facebook this week.
This is absolute madness. It also, by the way, isn't about skin pigmentation. At all. It is almost entirely solely socio-economic. What disadvantage does a black child face in comparison to a white child in a trailer park outside Marshall, TX with no dad in the home and mother on meth? What does their skin color have to do with the "opportunities" they each have? And how is the trailer park kid "privileged?"
Make an intelligent case or GTFO with this crap. It is insulting.
Your argument about skin color not being a factor is simply inaccurate. Countless studies have been done on this subject, and it is generally accepted in the helping professions to not be true. In your example, their skin color is actually going to affect them a lot. I can recommend some resources if you'd like to study up on the subject.
And if you're so insulted by my perspective, then stop responding. But if you'd like to have an intelligent conversation, keep your snide comments to yourself.
What is the objective here? What is the point? If you're just saying "Man, it's so unfair that more white-skinned people have 'connections' or have 'nuclear families' or 'money from their family", then my response is "Ok. So what?" What do you want to do about it? What do you expect of me? Am I supposed to do something? Or just apologize that everyone doesn't start out with the exact same cards? I didn't get the best starting cards either. A LOT of people had extreme advantages over me. Do I get to complain or demand something be done about it?
And why? To what end? Should we take away everyone's money and start them all off at zero, and then give each person an equal amount of money so it's a level playing field? When did life give us "perfectly fair in all respects" guarantee? And how do we account for physical advantages? Should we make the faster guy in the race carry a weight plate on his back so the race is "fair?" Or make the better boxer fight with one hand tied behind his back? How is that "fair?"
What. Do. You. Want. To. See. Happen? Tell me what you think the problem is, and how you'd like it solved.
I used to think similarly to you. I thought "Why should I care if it largely doesn't affect me? The problem is too big so why should I even try to understand?" For context, I've largely voted red during my life, am an active business person and pro-capitalist, and was born and raised in the south. It's not like I'm some "leftist nutjob". I just admitted that things weren't adding up and started trying to find out why. I haven't solved the issue and am not saying I'm going to. But the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. So let's start there.
There are a lot of things I would ultimately like to see happen but would take quite a while to type. I'll just start with what I feel is a good first step...
I would like each of us to be willing to admit that we have implicit biases based on our background and that it is possible (even likely) that some of them are not accurate. Then do the work to read and listen to people who have studied these topics -- in this case, multiple topics involving race. The key is being willing to unlearn something that isn't true and relearn what is. Not everything you and I learned is false, but some things are.
The reality is that people of color are imprisoned and are dying at a disproportionately high rate based on their circumstances. That's not someone's opinion...it is a statistic. I finally decided that if I really am going to profess to care about people above anything else, I should learn why that is. I'm sure you would agree with me that there is nothing inherently better or worse about a person based on the color of their skin. So if it's not "nature" (i.e. genetics, intelligence, etc.) then it must be some other cause. This is far from my area of expertise, so I consulted numerous people and resources that have dedicated their lives to these topics.
I'm just asking that you and some others on this board do the same.
In 1972 they started busing black kids into my high school. The black students were (justifiably) furious . They didn't want to get bused clear across town . Fights broke out constantly . Teachers were threatened , principal got beat up. KKK and Black Panthers stuffed their propaganda in our lockers . One brawl in the lunch room was so huge it made Walter Cronkite's CBS national news. Argued for 18 months with a proud, very smart black girl about everything under the sun . At our 10 year reunion we met and I introduced her to my wife. She introduced us to her white husband . I absolutely loved it .
One of my best friends in high school coached basketball at Sam Houston for many years - probably '80s-90s. Sadly, lost touch with him.Malbec said:My father started coaching and teaching at SHHS three years after Starr graduated and was there until moving on to BU in '73. Although there was the occasional militant confrontation, there was mostly a peaceful coexistence. Many of his black athletes spent more time in our home eating my mother's biscuits than they did in their own homes.curtpenn said:Trivia note: most of the kids in my neighborhood went to Ken Starr's alma mater, Sam Houston HS. My mother was a public school teacher and didn't want me going there. There were a few ways to get a transfer from one's newly designated district. One way was to take courses not offered in your assigned school. Mostly intended for vocational education. Anyway, I ended up attending Highlands by taking Russian. They had a wonderful guy who managed to escape the USSR and found his way to Texas teaching his native language. I've been interested in Russia ever since. Yeah, just turned 65 recently, too. Old fart here.Canada2017 said:curtpenn said:Stayed home several days my senior year due to random hallway beatings perpetrated by blacks. Was just glad to leave. Went to Baylor where these problems didn't exist. Takeway/lesson? Obviously, my quality of life was better in the bubble.engiBEAR said:It sounds like you and I came from similar backgrounds. I too had loving and involved parents, though we didn't have much money either. I had a better start than some but had disadvantages compared to others. It sounds like you did, too.bearassnekkid said:I had the "advantage" of living in a home with two loving parents, who set good examples for me and had high expectations of me. We didn't have money though. So what?engiBEAR said:Good question, and I'll answer: no, I don't blame anyone for enjoying a privilege. I've enjoyed quite a bit of privilege myself. I've also worked hard to get to where I am in life. Neither takes away from the other, and I'm comfortable with that. The reality is that I, as a white male, had opportunities in life that some of my black/brown peers haven't. Not all, but many of those instances, are because of the "hand I was dealt", which are either directly or indirectly linked to my race/ethnicity. My connections in life, whether it be from friends, family, church, etc. got me the opportunities I had. Thankfully, I worked hard and took advantage of them. But I can tell you from experience that I almost assuredly wouldn't have those connections if I wasn't white. I can give examples if you'd like. The point is not that privileged people can't take advantage of their privilege - heck, even build on it (like in your example of your friend's inheritance). The point is that we shouldn't be naive to think that privilege doesn't play a part and be comfortable enough to admit that to ourselves and others. As I said, I'm perfectly fine saying that I'm fortunate and was privileged to be given the opportunity for success that I was. It doesn't mean that my hard work didn't matter -- it just means that my hard work was a little (or a lot) more efficient because I didn't have to prove I belonged in the process.bearassnekkid said:Serious question: What is wrong with enjoying a privilege? I know people who have money because it was passed down to them by their parents (who worked hard and saved so they could give it to their children). Should those people feel bad that their parents left them money? Should they not enjoy the gift they received, simply because it wasn't something everyone else got? Did you ever get a bike one year for Christmas? Did you feel horrible about it, and refuse to enjoy it because some other kids didn't get a bike? The "privilege" talking point is moronic. I wasn't born with the ability to run a 4.3 forty yard dash. But I'm not telling the guy who was that he should feel bad about it, and that it isn't fair that he got a college scholarship, and that he should apologize for using his advantage and running faster than me. Life isn't fair. I'm not "owed" anything, nor do I expect outside forces to "level the playing field" for me.engiBEAR said:Perhaps it's worth an honest self-evaluation and deciding if you are quiet about this because you actually do enjoy the privileges you've enjoyed in your life? I'd have to say that you are compliant if you don't disagree with what's going on in our society.whitetrash said:What if we speak up and tell him to STFU? Can't be accused of being silent then.Jack Bauer said:
Stephen A just told white people that if they are silent, then they are compliant.
Must be why every single upper-class white woman has to post a 3 paragraph statement on Facebook this week.
This is absolute madness. It also, by the way, isn't about skin pigmentation. At all. It is almost entirely solely socio-economic. What disadvantage does a black child face in comparison to a white child in a trailer park outside Marshall, TX with no dad in the home and mother on meth? What does their skin color have to do with the "opportunities" they each have? And how is the trailer park kid "privileged?"
Make an intelligent case or GTFO with this crap. It is insulting.
Your argument about skin color not being a factor is simply inaccurate. Countless studies have been done on this subject, and it is generally accepted in the helping professions to not be true. In your example, their skin color is actually going to affect them a lot. I can recommend some resources if you'd like to study up on the subject.
And if you're so insulted by my perspective, then stop responding. But if you'd like to have an intelligent conversation, keep your snide comments to yourself.
What is the objective here? What is the point? If you're just saying "Man, it's so unfair that more white-skinned people have 'connections' or have 'nuclear families' or 'money from their family", then my response is "Ok. So what?" What do you want to do about it? What do you expect of me? Am I supposed to do something? Or just apologize that everyone doesn't start out with the exact same cards? I didn't get the best starting cards either. A LOT of people had extreme advantages over me. Do I get to complain or demand something be done about it?
And why? To what end? Should we take away everyone's money and start them all off at zero, and then give each person an equal amount of money so it's a level playing field? When did life give us "perfectly fair in all respects" guarantee? And how do we account for physical advantages? Should we make the faster guy in the race carry a weight plate on his back so the race is "fair?" Or make the better boxer fight with one hand tied behind his back? How is that "fair?"
What. Do. You. Want. To. See. Happen? Tell me what you think the problem is, and how you'd like it solved.
I used to think similarly to you. I thought "Why should I care if it largely doesn't affect me? The problem is too big so why should I even try to understand?" For context, I've largely voted red during my life, am an active business person and pro-capitalist, and was born and raised in the south. It's not like I'm some "leftist nutjob". I just admitted that things weren't adding up and started trying to find out why. I haven't solved the issue and am not saying I'm going to. But the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. So let's start there.
There are a lot of things I would ultimately like to see happen but would take quite a while to type. I'll just start with what I feel is a good first step...
I would like each of us to be willing to admit that we have implicit biases based on our background and that it is possible (even likely) that some of them are not accurate. Then do the work to read and listen to people who have studied these topics -- in this case, multiple topics involving race. The key is being willing to unlearn something that isn't true and relearn what is. Not everything you and I learned is false, but some things are.
The reality is that people of color are imprisoned and are dying at a disproportionately high rate based on their circumstances. That's not someone's opinion...it is a statistic. I finally decided that if I really am going to profess to care about people above anything else, I should learn why that is. I'm sure you would agree with me that there is nothing inherently better or worse about a person based on the color of their skin. So if it's not "nature" (i.e. genetics, intelligence, etc.) then it must be some other cause. This is far from my area of expertise, so I consulted numerous people and resources that have dedicated their lives to these topics.
I'm just asking that you and some others on this board do the same.
In 1972 they started busing black kids into my high school. The black students were (justifiably) furious . They didn't want to get bused clear across town . Fights broke out constantly . Teachers were threatened , principal got beat up. KKK and Black Panthers stuffed their propaganda in our lockers . One brawl in the lunch room was so huge it made Walter Cronkite's CBS national news. Argued for 18 months with a proud, very smart black girl about everything under the sun . At our 10 year reunion we met and I introduced her to my wife. She introduced us to her white husband . I absolutely loved it .
Speaking of dismissing other people's experiences...Porteroso said:What is bs about it? You don't think black people get to have their own perspective, their own voice? Why would you think you can dismiss other people's experiences?Johnny Bear said:Waco1947 said:
" Now, we are being shown how limited our vision is.
Because we have never been on the other side, we largely do not recognize the structural access we enjoy, the trust we think we deserve, the assumption that we always belong and do not have to earn our belonging. All this we take for granted as normal. Only the outsider can spot these attitudes in us. And we are quick to dismiss what is apparent to our neighbors who are Black, Indigenous, and People of Color from their lived experience." Richard Rohr
What a bunch of leftist BS.
You said someone else's opinion was bs. Why are you dismissing their experience? You haven't shared any experience yet to be dismissed, are you worried that you'll be dismissed or viewed as inferior?57Bear said:Why do other people think that they can dismiss mine? Or that their experiences are superior to mine?Porteroso said:What is bs about it? You don't think black people get to have their own perspective, their own voice? Why would you think you can dismiss other people's experiences?Johnny Bear said:Waco1947 said:
" Now, we are being shown how limited our vision is.
Because we have never been on the other side, we largely do not recognize the structural access we enjoy, the trust we think we deserve, the assumption that we always belong and do not have to earn our belonging. All this we take for granted as normal. Only the outsider can spot these attitudes in us. And we are quick to dismiss what is apparent to our neighbors who are Black, Indigenous, and People of Color from their lived experience." Richard Rohr
What a bunch of leftist BS.
Logic is hard, we know this. The original quote is about people dismissing the experience of minorities, then this guy says it's bs, so I ask why, and somehow I'm dismissing his experience? This forum should be exhibit A in an effort to replace Baylor's required polisci with Logic 101.curtpenn said:Speaking of dismissing other people's experiences...Porteroso said:What is bs about it? You don't think black people get to have their own perspective, their own voice? Why would you think you can dismiss other people's experiences?Johnny Bear said:What a bunch of leftist BS.Waco1947 said:
" Now, we are being shown how limited our vision is.
Because we have never been on the other side, we largely do not recognize the structural access we enjoy, the trust we think we deserve, the assumption that we always belong and do not have to earn our belonging. All this we take for granted as normal. Only the outsider can spot these attitudes in us. And we are quick to dismiss what is apparent to our neighbors who are Black, Indigenous, and People of Color from their lived experience." Richard Rohr
The irony is strong in this one.
Is your generational poverty kind of like generational sin?Porteroso said:
Black Americans face 1 major challenge, generational poverty. For the sake of argument, take an educated white person. If that person falls into poverty for more than 3 years, the chances of regaining economic stability are very slim. Many black Americans coming from generational poverty never have a real shot. We can talk (and many on this forum do) about how everyone has the chance to make something of themselves, but it's not really true, if you've ever cared to even read an article about it. Poverty, especially when it's the only condition your entire family, and your friends, have ever known, is incredibly difficult to come out of. And it doesn't just affect blacks, there are Hispanic, white, Native American families that deal with it, and it's hard for any of them to come out of it.
My opinion is that we could combat poverty in a way that doesn't account for race, just bend over backwards at the local, state, and federal level, to give anyone in poverty a real chance at a great education. You could get all of America behind that, but before we can talk about that, we have to recognize that poverty is a problem, and we need to recognize that for many reasons, generational poverty, especially generational poverty that traces its roots back to slavery, is really, really bad for society.
And here we are, back at square one. Oldbear, why does "ignorance" so succinctly describe "generational poverty that traces its roots back to slavery?"
Porteroso said:You're right, not that much love. I do try though. It's easier to respect a person who's trying for some measure of justice, and harder when people like oldbear use their ancestors to try to dismiss their responsibility to fight racism. This is what I get for late night posts. I still prefer to think oldbear is a 50 year old troll.Canada2017 said:chucklePorteroso said:Oldbear83 said:
All you have is your tired, bitter dishonest rhetoric.
You deny all the good done, and all the good people.
You are a small, petty tyrant who can only see bigotry because that's all you have in your own heart.
I have a lot of love in my heart, and grace, and acceptance, because god knows we all need it. You're a disgusting human being if you're being real .
Gotta luv the internet
Also don't you have me on ignore? I don't have real world experience, right?
Porteroso said:I agree that communities tend to have different struggles. We'll just see what he says. I really wonder how he knows so much about all black Americans, internally, that he can tell us they won't face their problems. Like I said, an incredible statement.D. C. Bear said:I was answering you question about familial breakup.Porteroso said:I'm not saying all cultures experience all problems equally. I want to understand, before going off on oldbear, why he thinks blacks are "unwilling to address their own internal issues."D. C. Bear said:
While familial breakup is not exclusively an African American issue, it is a much more pronounced issue when it comes to African American children.
https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/bar/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race?loc=1&loct=1#1/any/false/37/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/431
I am going to assume the Annie E. Casey Foundation is providing legitimate data.
That's an incredible statement on several levels, and I'm blown away enough that I want to understand more of why he thinks that, or even finds that to be an acceptable thing to say. I get that it's the internet and all, but still.
The problem with his statement is that it treats an entire ethnic group as monolithic. There are, however, a wide number of problems in the African American community that tend to be more severe than those same problems in the broader population. There are also those who benefit from a poor relationship between law enforcement and the African American community.
Black Americans face 1 major challenge, generational poverty. For the sake of argument, take an educated white person. If that person falls into poverty for more than 3 years, the chances of regaining economic stability are very slim. Many black Americans coming from generational poverty never have a real shot. We can talk (and many on this forum do) about how everyone has the chance to make something of themselves, but it's not really true, if you've ever cared to even read an article about it. Poverty, especially when it's the only condition your entire family, and your friends, have ever known, is incredibly difficult to come out of. And it doesn't just affect blacks, there are Hispanic, white, Native American families that deal with it, and it's hard for any of them to come out of it.
My opinion is that we could combat poverty in a way that doesn't account for race, just bend over backwards at the local, state, and federal level, to give anyone in poverty a real chance at a great education. You could get all of America behind that, but before we can talk about that, we have to recognize that poverty is a problem, and we need to recognize that for many reasons, generational poverty, especially generational poverty that traces its roots back to slavery, is really, really bad for society.
And here we are, back at square one. Oldbear, why does "ignorance" so succinctly describe "generational poverty that traces its roots back to slavery?"
Apparently self awareness if really hard, as well.Porteroso said:Logic is hard, we know this. The original quote is about people dismissing the experience of minorities, then this guy says it's bs, so I ask why, and somehow I'm dismissing his experience? This forum should be exhibit A in an effort to replace Baylor's required polisci with Logic 101.curtpenn said:Speaking of dismissing other people's experiences...Porteroso said:What is bs about it? You don't think black people get to have their own perspective, their own voice? Why would you think you can dismiss other people's experiences?Johnny Bear said:What a bunch of leftist BS.Waco1947 said:
" Now, we are being shown how limited our vision is.
Because we have never been on the other side, we largely do not recognize the structural access we enjoy, the trust we think we deserve, the assumption that we always belong and do not have to earn our belonging. All this we take for granted as normal. Only the outsider can spot these attitudes in us. And we are quick to dismiss what is apparent to our neighbors who are Black, Indigenous, and People of Color from their lived experience." Richard Rohr
The irony is strong in this one.
Man, that is a frickin' AMAZING stat! I am skeptical that it is true. The mainstream news media would have us believe that 99 percent of blacks are shackled in chains under the duress of their evil white masters!!!!D. C. Bear said:Porteroso said:I agree that communities tend to have different struggles. We'll just see what he says. I really wonder how he knows so much about all black Americans, internally, that he can tell us they won't face their problems. Like I said, an incredible statement.D. C. Bear said:I was answering you question about familial breakup.Porteroso said:I'm not saying all cultures experience all problems equally. I want to understand, before going off on oldbear, why he thinks blacks are "unwilling to address their own internal issues."D. C. Bear said:
While familial breakup is not exclusively an African American issue, it is a much more pronounced issue when it comes to African American children.
https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/bar/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race?loc=1&loct=1#1/any/false/37/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/431
I am going to assume the Annie E. Casey Foundation is providing legitimate data.
That's an incredible statement on several levels, and I'm blown away enough that I want to understand more of why he thinks that, or even finds that to be an acceptable thing to say. I get that it's the internet and all, but still.
The problem with his statement is that it treats an entire ethnic group as monolithic. There are, however, a wide number of problems in the African American community that tend to be more severe than those same problems in the broader population. There are also those who benefit from a poor relationship between law enforcement and the African American community.
Black Americans face 1 major challenge, generational poverty. For the sake of argument, take an educated white person. If that person falls into poverty for more than 3 years, the chances of regaining economic stability are very slim. Many black Americans coming from generational poverty never have a real shot. We can talk (and many on this forum do) about how everyone has the chance to make something of themselves, but it's not really true, if you've ever cared to even read an article about it. Poverty, especially when it's the only condition your entire family, and your friends, have ever known, is incredibly difficult to come out of. And it doesn't just affect blacks, there are Hispanic, white, Native American families that deal with it, and it's hard for any of them to come out of it.
My opinion is that we could combat poverty in a way that doesn't account for race, just bend over backwards at the local, state, and federal level, to give anyone in poverty a real chance at a great education. You could get all of America behind that, but before we can talk about that, we have to recognize that poverty is a problem, and we need to recognize that for many reasons, generational poverty, especially generational poverty that traces its roots back to slavery, is really, really bad for society.
And here we are, back at square one. Oldbear, why does "ignorance" so succinctly describe "generational poverty that traces its roots back to slavery?"
More than 50 percent of African Americans are middle class, upper middle class or upper class.
