Nope.Sam Lowry said:The only thing less likely than a short-term reaction is a long-term reaction. They're practically unheard of outside of live vaccines, and even with the acellular anthrax vaccine the connection is doubtful.Mothra said:So don't let the million dollars I've spent on my son's treatment and care and permanent brain damage resulting from a vaccine which we have to live for the rest of our lives make us cautious on a vaccine for a disease that kills a tiny percentage of people with comorbidities and has no long term data. That's your advice?BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
Almost any medical procedure on the planet has severe reactions or side effects for small percentages of the population. Do you advocate against surgeries that have a comparably much higher chance of serious reactions like blood clots?
Also why I am not advocating for 2 year olds to receive the vaccine. Don't let your experience with your son turn you into someone that cause the death of an adult with fear based messaging.
Wow. You're right. I am convinced. We should ignore our experience and get jabbed ad infinitum.
94% unvaccinated in Waco hospitals
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Last: 4 yr ago by Quinton
and? That's why I think government can regulate it...prevent itMothra said:I think that is an enormous leap in logic and an apples to bowling balls comparison. Among the many differences, abortion will always end the life of someone else. The child is not a part of the woman's body. It simply resides there.fadskier said:Abortion is the government making requirements on your body for the safety of others...which is why I DO think that sometimes the government has that power.Mothra said:If you are a conservative who favors individual liberty and limited govt., there shouldn't be much to think about.fadskier said:My first response to a mandate is no...but then I have to back up and think about it. I'm against abortion. I have been vaccinated by every vaccination that is offered and, quite honestly, I don't understand why people react so differently to this one.Mothra said:I don't believe any of that should be mandated. But requiring a medical procedure is decidedly different than any of the examples you used. Arguing that because the govt. mandates some things it can or should mandate others does not a good argument make.fadskier said:The mandate is a difficult and slippery slope. The fundamental question is "Is there a time when the government can and should mandate behavior for the greater good."Mothra said:That's a different way of saying the same thing I just said - we were told get vaxxed so you don't have a fatal case. It's the reason I encouraged my older in laws and dad to get the vaccine. They are more vulnerable.fadskier said:I was never told that. I was informed that if I got vaxxed and contracted the disease, it would not be fatal and would be a lighter case.Mothra said:Actually, it was. We were told get vaxxed so you don't die. That being the case, no reason to mandate a vaccine that doesn't prevent the spread. The vaxxed are not being endangered.fadskier said:No it wasn'tMothra said:No, if you're vaxxed you have nothing to fear, remember? That's the whole point of the vax.C. Jordan said:The problem is that their ignorance and stupidity are endangering other people.Canon said:BylrFan said:
https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday
QUICK! Let's take away their free will!
The irony.
We agree on the rest. It should not be a mandate.
The answer is yes and we already do...for arguments sake...why is this vaccine different that mandating legal alcohol content, abortion, wearing a helmet on a motorcycle...etc?
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you just say you AREN'T for mandates?
I mean, there are very few unvaccinated people for other diseases. Why is this one so different?
I am not sure what abortion has to do with this.
There are people who cannot handle vaccines and whose body doesn't react well to them. My son is one of them. Vaccines can and do injure people. Most vaccines are not approved until 7 years after they are tested on human subjects. That's because we typically like to take a long look at side effects. We don't have that data here. For that reason, the less vulnerable may want to take a wait and see approach.
The military mandates the anthrax vaccine on all servicemembers back during the Gulf War. About ten years later, many of these servicemembers started showing severe neurological and other issues that were caused by the vaccine. It's called Gulf War Syndrome. Point is, we don't yet know if this vaccine will have long term side effects.
No. Dad got very sick, but other than that, no bad reactions in the short term. For the record, I am not anti-vax, though that's what people like to label me. Instead, I am anti-vax for all people. There are some people who should not get this vaccine. I don't believe in a one size fits all approach.BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:So don't let the million dollars I've spent on my son's treatment and care and permanent brain damage resulting from a vaccine which we have to live for the rest of our lives make us cautious on a vaccine for a disease that kills a tiny percentage of people with comorbidities and has no long term data. That's your advice?BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
Almost any medical procedure on the planet has severe reactions or side effects for small percentages of the population. Do you advocate against surgeries that have a comparably much higher chance of serious reactions like blood clots?
Also why I am not advocating for 2 year olds to receive the vaccine. Don't let your experience with your son turn you into someone that cause the death of an adult with fear based messaging.
Wow. You're right. I am convinced. We should ignore our experience and get jabbed ad infinitum.
You are letting a very personal anecdotal experience with your son make you view the situation wholly through an emotional lens. Very fair and I get that as I have 3 young kids (2 of which have serious health issues). You said you advocated your older parents and relatives get the vaccine. Did any of them, or anyone else you know, experience encephalitis within a week of vaccination?
And for the record, I have considered getting the vaccine, and I might have to get it because of work. I would just like to wait and see what the long term data says. This is a new technology, unlike previous vaccines, so we are not entirely sure what the long term effects are.
And of course I am letting a personal experience influence me. My life and my son's have been permanently affected by a vaccine injury. That means I am going to be cautious, especially when there hasn't been the requisite amount of long-term data typical of vaccines.
That's a long winded way of admitting you are an idiot. Get vaccinated moron.Mothra said:No. Dad got very sick, but other than that, no bad reactions in the short term. For the record, I am not anti-vax, though that's what people like to label me. Instead, I am anti-vax for all people. There are some people who should not get this vaccine. I don't believe in a one size fits all approach.BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:So don't let the million dollars I've spent on my son's treatment and care and permanent brain damage resulting from a vaccine which we have to live for the rest of our lives make us cautious on a vaccine for a disease that kills a tiny percentage of people with comorbidities and has no long term data. That's your advice?BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
Almost any medical procedure on the planet has severe reactions or side effects for small percentages of the population. Do you advocate against surgeries that have a comparably much higher chance of serious reactions like blood clots?
Also why I am not advocating for 2 year olds to receive the vaccine. Don't let your experience with your son turn you into someone that cause the death of an adult with fear based messaging.
Wow. You're right. I am convinced. We should ignore our experience and get jabbed ad infinitum.
You are letting a very personal anecdotal experience with your son make you view the situation wholly through an emotional lens. Very fair and I get that as I have 3 young kids (2 of which have serious health issues). You said you advocated your older parents and relatives get the vaccine. Did any of them, or anyone else you know, experience encephalitis within a week of vaccination?
And for the record, I have considered getting the vaccine, and I might have to get it because of work. I would just like to wait and see what the long term data says. This is a new technology, unlike previous vaccines, so we are not entirely sure what the long term effects are.
And of course I am letting a personal experience influence me. My life and my son's have been permanently affected by a vaccine injury. That means I am going to be cautious, especially when there hasn't been the requisite amount of long-term data typical of vaccines.
LOL. Oh boy....clubhi said:Exactly what a petty tyrant would sayCanon said:
Stop being a petty tyrant
The irony and lack of self awareness in this post is incredible, even for you.clubhi said:That's a long winded way of admitting you are an idiot. Get vaccinated moron.Mothra said:No. Dad got very sick, but other than that, no bad reactions in the short term. For the record, I am not anti-vax, though that's what people like to label me. Instead, I am anti-vax for all people. There are some people who should not get this vaccine. I don't believe in a one size fits all approach.BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:So don't let the million dollars I've spent on my son's treatment and care and permanent brain damage resulting from a vaccine which we have to live for the rest of our lives make us cautious on a vaccine for a disease that kills a tiny percentage of people with comorbidities and has no long term data. That's your advice?BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
Almost any medical procedure on the planet has severe reactions or side effects for small percentages of the population. Do you advocate against surgeries that have a comparably much higher chance of serious reactions like blood clots?
Also why I am not advocating for 2 year olds to receive the vaccine. Don't let your experience with your son turn you into someone that cause the death of an adult with fear based messaging.
Wow. You're right. I am convinced. We should ignore our experience and get jabbed ad infinitum.
You are letting a very personal anecdotal experience with your son make you view the situation wholly through an emotional lens. Very fair and I get that as I have 3 young kids (2 of which have serious health issues). You said you advocated your older parents and relatives get the vaccine. Did any of them, or anyone else you know, experience encephalitis within a week of vaccination?
And for the record, I have considered getting the vaccine, and I might have to get it because of work. I would just like to wait and see what the long term data says. This is a new technology, unlike previous vaccines, so we are not entirely sure what the long term effects are.
And of course I am letting a personal experience influence me. My life and my son's have been permanently affected by a vaccine injury. That means I am going to be cautious, especially when there hasn't been the requisite amount of long-term data typical of vaccines.
haha, that is bs. Which hospital are you referring to and I will disprove your doctor friend.Florda_mike said:
Doctor friend of mine emailed me that these unvaccinated numbers are false. Said he works 2 hospitals. About 30 COVID patients in each. 27-28 were vaccinated in both which is 90-95% that are vaccinated. Israel has surveys showing high percentage in hospitals are vaccinated.
https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/08/israel-hospital-vaccinated.html
Why is OP trying to shame those that choose to be safe for now and see how these vaccines work before taking them or not???
Even the CDC says vaccines don't prevent a person from getting COVID nor stops them from transmitting COVID to others!
You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.Mothra said:LOL. When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. Classic Sam Lowry.Sam Lowry said:So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.Mothra said:https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.pageSam Lowry said:What state restrictions?Mothra said:Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.Sam Lowry said:I'm a bad libertarian.Mothra said:Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. Totally optional!Sam Lowry said:I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.Canon said:Booray said:The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.Canon said:BylrFan said:
https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday
QUICK! Let's take away their free will!
Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.
The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.
The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx
https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)
Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?
Sorry, brother, but I am going to have to call you out on your bull***** Anyone who goes back to our original exchange will see that we were clearly discussing state action. My initial post to you was in response to your request that Canon provide you with the names of these politicians. And then of course you requested that I identify the state actors.Sam Lowry said:You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.Mothra said:LOL. When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. Classic Sam Lowry.Sam Lowry said:So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.Mothra said:https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.pageSam Lowry said:What state restrictions?Mothra said:Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.Sam Lowry said:I'm a bad libertarian.Mothra said:Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. Totally optional!Sam Lowry said:I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.Canon said:Booray said:The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.Canon said:BylrFan said:
https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday
QUICK! Let's take away their free will!
Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.
The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.
The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx
https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)
Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?
To say otherwise is a lie, and you know it. Just admit your mistake (for once) and move on.
Ghostrider said:haha, that is bs. Which hospital are you referring to and I will disprove your doctor friend.Florda_mike said:
Doctor friend of mine emailed me that these unvaccinated numbers are false. Said he works 2 hospitals. About 30 COVID patients in each. 27-28 were vaccinated in both which is 90-95% that are vaccinated. Israel has surveys showing high percentage in hospitals are vaccinated.
https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/08/israel-hospital-vaccinated.html
Why is OP trying to shame those that choose to be safe for now and see how these vaccines work before taking them or not???
Even the CDC says vaccines don't prevent a person from getting COVID nor stops them from transmitting COVID to others!
He can't/won't. Cop out reason to ensure he can't be disproven.
Imagine a doctor working on COVID cases in Florida right now going out of his way to send Florida_Mike emails that could get him firedBearTruth13 said:Ghostrider said:haha, that is bs. Which hospital are you referring to and I will disprove your doctor friend.Florda_mike said:
Doctor friend of mine emailed me that these unvaccinated numbers are false. Said he works 2 hospitals. About 30 COVID patients in each. 27-28 were vaccinated in both which is 90-95% that are vaccinated. Israel has surveys showing high percentage in hospitals are vaccinated.
https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/08/israel-hospital-vaccinated.html
Why is OP trying to shame those that choose to be safe for now and see how these vaccines work before taking them or not???
Even the CDC says vaccines don't prevent a person from getting COVID nor stops them from transmitting COVID to others!
He can't/won't. Cop out reason to ensure he can't be disproven.
"Dear Florida_Mike,
As you know I work at 2 hospitals. Only vaccinated people are dying. I know that your three hobbies are drinking, infowars.com, and message boards so I trust you can keep this secret between us.
"
As you know I work at 2 hospitals. Only vaccinated people are dying. I know that your three hobbies are drinking, infowars.com, and message boards so I trust you can keep this secret between us.
"
clubhi said:
"Dear Florida_Mike,
As you know I work at 2 hospitals. Only vaccinated people are dying. I know that your three hobbies are drinking, infowars.com, and message boards so I trust you can keep this secret between us.
"
Lol. "Please don't start 15 threads today on the Baylor politics board with this info."
LOL
clubhi said:
"Dear Florida_Mike,
As you know I work at 2 hospitals. Only vaccinated people are dying. I know that your three hobbies are drinking, infowars.com, and message boards so I trust you can keep this secret between us.
You're becoming abit comical
I'll admit I giggled here, if even at my expense
We need more of this here, don't we?
Fact is, I'm gonna upvote it while smiling!
I know we're talking about state action. I specifically asked you about it. Keep calm, decide what you want to talk about, get back if you have a substantive response.Mothra said:Sorry, brother, but I am going to have to call you out on your bull***** %A0Anyone who goes back to our original exchange will see that we were clearly discussing state action. %A0My initial post to you was in response to your request that Canon provide you with the names of these politicians. %A0And then of course you requested that I identify the state actors.Sam Lowry said:You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.Mothra said:LOL. %A0When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. %A0Classic Sam Lowry.Sam Lowry said:So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.Mothra said:https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.pageSam Lowry said:What state restrictions?Mothra said:Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." %A0In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.Sam Lowry said:I'm a bad libertarian.Mothra said:Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. %A0Totally optional!Sam Lowry said:I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.Canon said:Booray said:The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.Canon said:BylrFan said:
https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday
QUICK! Let's take away their free will!
Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.
The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.
The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx
https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)
Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? %A0Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?
To say otherwise is a lie, and you know it. %A0Just admit your mistake (for once) and move on.
Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.contrario said:
I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:
We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.
So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.
So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.
ATL Bear said:Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.contrario said:
I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:
We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.
So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.
So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.
you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for
Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
Ah I see, you want to argue semantics - your other favorite pastime.%A0 As I stated previously, you have an interesting idea of what the word forced means.%A0 When you can't work, travel or shop, I suspect most reasonable people would agree those kind of restrictions would have a way of forcing someone to do something.%A0 No, they haven't been physically restrained and injected, but when you have to decide between providing food for yourself and your family, those kind of decisions have a way of forcing someone to take an action they may not want to.Sam Lowry said:I know we're talking about state action. I specifically asked you about it. Keep calm, decide what you want to talk about, get back if you have a substantive response.Mothra said:Sorry, brother, but I am going to have to call you out on your bull***** %A0Anyone who goes back to our original exchange will see that we were clearly discussing state action. %A0My initial post to you was in response to your request that Canon provide you with the names of these politicians. %A0And then of course you requested that I identify the state actors.Sam Lowry said:You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.Mothra said:LOL. %A0When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. %A0Classic Sam Lowry.Sam Lowry said:So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.Mothra said:https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.pageSam Lowry said:What state restrictions?Mothra said:Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." %A0In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.Sam Lowry said:I'm a bad libertarian.Mothra said:Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. %A0Totally optional!Sam Lowry said:I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.Canon said:Booray said:The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.Canon said:BylrFan said:
https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday
QUICK! Let's take away their free will!
Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.
The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.
The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx
https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)
Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? %A0Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?
To say otherwise is a lie, and you know it. %A0Just admit your mistake (for once) and move on.
Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.Osodecentx said:Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paidMothra said:Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.Osodecentx said:Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
How old? Overweight? Diabetic? History of lung issues? Those typically accompany the bad cases.Osodecentx said:He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paidMothra said:Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.Osodecentx said:Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
I am sorry for your friend. It does sound like he made a bad choice. Similar to the choice I made to have my son vaccinated. That's life in a fallen world.
Chronic ingrown hairsMothra said:How old? Overweight? Diabetic? History of lung issues? Those typically accompany the bad cases.Osodecentx said:He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paidMothra said:Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.Osodecentx said:Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
I am sorry for your friend. It does sound like he made a bad choice. Similar to the choice I made to have my son vaccinated. That's life in a fallen world.
Maybe we need this kind of shakeup in the medical world to fix the skyrocketing medical cost issues. If you're too dumb to take care of yourself, you are relegated to the dumb person hospital. Everyone else can go to the less crowded hospital and have lower insurance premiums.ATL Bear said:Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.contrario said:
I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:
We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.
So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.
So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.
Yeah, except you don't really have to decide that. All you have to do is give up Friday at Applebee's for a while, which in the grand scheme of things is a pretty small price to pay for a license to spread deadly disease and push innocent people out of the emergency room.Mothra said:Ah I see, you want to argue semantics - your other favorite pastime.%A0 As I stated previously, you have an interesting idea of what the word forced means.%A0 When you can't work, travel or shop, I suspect most reasonable people would agree those kind of restrictions would have a way of forcing someone to do something.%A0 No, they haven't been physically restrained and injected, but when you have to decide between providing food for yourself and your family, those kind of decisions have a way of forcing someone to take an action they may not want to.Sam Lowry said:I know we're talking about state action. I specifically asked you about it. Keep calm, decide what you want to talk about, get back if you have a substantive response.Mothra said:Sorry, brother, but I am going to have to call you out on your bull***** %A0Anyone who goes back to our original exchange will see that we were clearly discussing state action. %A0My initial post to you was in response to your request that Canon provide you with the names of these politicians. %A0And then of course you requested that I identify the state actors.Sam Lowry said:You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.Mothra said:LOL. %A0When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. %A0Classic Sam Lowry.Sam Lowry said:So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.Mothra said:https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.pageSam Lowry said:What state restrictions?Mothra said:Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." %A0In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.Sam Lowry said:I'm a bad libertarian.Mothra said:Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. %A0Totally optional!Sam Lowry said:I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.Canon said:Booray said:The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.Canon said:BylrFan said:
https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday
QUICK! Let's take away their free will!
Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.
The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.
The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx
https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)
Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? %A0Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?
To say otherwise is a lie, and you know it. %A0Just admit your mistake (for once) and move on.
Mothra said:How old? Overweight? Diabetic? History of lung issues? Those typically accompany the bad cases.Osodecentx said:He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paidMothra said:Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.Osodecentx said:Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
I am sorry for your friend. It does sound like he made a bad choice. Similar to the choice I made to have my son vaccinated. That's life in a fallen world.
I'm going to guess that a 35 year old is more likely to die from COVID than suffer long term brain damage from a vaccine. Guy might have been perfectly healthy.
contrario said:This comment is anecdotal, at best, but according to your doctor friend, how many of those 27-28 died?Florda_mike said:
Doctor friend of mine emailed me that these unvaccinated numbers are false. Said he works 2 hospitals. About 30 COVID patients in each. 27-28 were vaccinated in both which is 90-95% that are vaccinated. Israel has surveys showing high percentage in hospitals are vaccinated.
https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/08/israel-hospital-vaccinated.html
Why is OP trying to shame those that choose to be safe for now and see how these vaccines work before taking them or not???
Even the CDC says vaccines don't prevent a person from getting COVID nor stops them from transmitting COVID to others!
And when a population group is nearly fully vaccinated, of course a large portion of the people that are infected will be vaccinated. For the one millionth time, the vaccine doesn't prevent anyone from getting the virus. To take it one step further, if a population group was 100% vaccinated, 100% of the people that end up infected would be vaccinated. That doesn't mean the vaccine isn't accomplishing the intended purpose.
You keep talking about Israel. What's important to note is that the infections are high right now because of Delta, but the fatality numbers are significantly lower than before the vaccine. And we will know more in the coming weeks and months, but it is likely this curve will go faster than the previous ones because so much of their population is vaccinated.
And yet, by some twist of fate, with 60+% or so of the country (who knows the real number) vaccinated, covid cases are 300% higher today under Biden with a vax than under Trump without a vax
I'd say the plan y'all voted for him To Implement appears to be working Well
Insert video here if Nancy Greatest Stock and Options Trader since Hillary Pelosi saying "we can't force anyone to take a vaccine"
Except that's not what the evidence suggests is happening. 35-year-old healthy individuals aren't dying of COVID.BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:How old? Overweight? Diabetic? History of lung issues? Those typically accompany the bad cases.Osodecentx said:He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paidMothra said:Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.Osodecentx said:Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
I am sorry for your friend. It does sound like he made a bad choice. Similar to the choice I made to have my son vaccinated. That's life in a fallen world.
I'm going to guess that a 35 year old is more likely to die from COVID than suffer long term brain damage from a vaccine. Guy might have been perfectly healthy.
BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:So don't let the million dollars I've spent on my son's treatment and care and permanent brain damage resulting from a vaccine which we have to live for the rest of our lives make us cautious on a vaccine for a disease that kills a tiny percentage of people with comorbidities and has no long term data. That's your advice?BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
Almost any medical procedure on the planet has severe reactions or side effects for small percentages of the population. Do you advocate against surgeries that have a comparably much higher chance of serious reactions like blood clots?
Also why I am not advocating for 2 year olds to receive the vaccine. Don't let your experience with your son turn you into someone that cause the death of an adult with fear based messaging.
Wow. You're right. I am convinced. We should ignore our experience and get jabbed ad infinitum.
You are letting a very personal anecdotal experience with your son make you view the situation wholly through an emotional lens. Very fair and I get that as I have 3 young kids (2 of which have serious health issues). You said you advocated your older parents and relatives get the vaccine. Did any of them, or anyone else you know, experience encephalitis within a week of vaccination?
Wow. This is shameful
There have been about 30,000 Covid deaths under 50, compared to about 3,000 flu deaths in 2018-2019.Mothra said:Except that's not what the evidence suggests is happening. 35-year-old healthy individuals aren't dying of COVID.BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:How old? Overweight? Diabetic? History of lung issues? Those typically accompany the bad cases.Osodecentx said:He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paidMothra said:Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.Osodecentx said:Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
I am sorry for your friend. It does sound like he made a bad choice. Similar to the choice I made to have my son vaccinated. That's life in a fallen world.
I'm going to guess that a 35 year old is more likely to die from COVID than suffer long term brain damage from a vaccine. Guy might have been perfectly healthy.
contrario said:
I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:
We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.
So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.
So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.
Lmao
Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:
1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms
Any and all the above are preventable
These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor
The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?
It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for
He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.clubhi said:ATL Bear said:Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.contrario said:
I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:
We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.
So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.
So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.
you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for
Yeah, unvaccinated fata$$es deserve to dieMothra said:Except that's not what the evidence suggests is happening. 35-year-old healthy individuals aren't dying of COVID.BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:How old? Overweight? Diabetic? History of lung issues? Those typically accompany the bad cases.Osodecentx said:He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paidMothra said:Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.Osodecentx said:Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experienceMothra said:MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).BearTruth13 said:Mothra said:I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.BearTruth13 said:
The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.
I bet most just are afraid of needles.
Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.
At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.
Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.
I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation
I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.
I am sorry for your friend. It does sound like he made a bad choice. Similar to the choice I made to have my son vaccinated. That's life in a fallen world.
I'm going to guess that a 35 year old is more likely to die from COVID than suffer long term brain damage from a vaccine. Guy might have been perfectly healthy.
Yeah, they deserve to dieFreedomb3ar said:contrario said:
I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:
We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.
So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.
So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.
Lmao
Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:
1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms
Any and all the above are preventable
These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor
The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?
It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for