D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

Oldbear83 said:

---

"covering the exact same ground ."

Agreed, so how about this?

1. We're not going to get to 100% vaccination. So what should be the target for the adult population?
2. Natural immunity for those who already had COVID is known to be more than twenty times stronger than vaccination. So why is that ignored when discussing vaccination requirements, especially among doctors and nurses who had the virus already?

If we can discuss those without bitterness, this thread could be worth the while.

---

My friend Rebecca, who is just recovering from her second bout with Covid, would like to know more about this natural immunity.

JXL said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"covering the exact same ground ."

Agreed, so how about this?

1. We're not going to get to 100% vaccination. So what should be the target for the adult population?
2. Natural immunity for those who already had COVID is known to be more than twenty times stronger than vaccination. So why is that ignored when discussing vaccination requirements, especially among doctors and nurses who had the virus already?

If we can discuss those without bitterness, this thread could be worth the while.

---

My friend Rebecca, who is just recovering from her second bout with Covid, would like to know more about this natural immunity.

---

Well, the fact that she's actually recovering, especially from her second bout, probably says something about the natural immunity and antibodies.

Reminds of a funny and true story. A friend of mine who is a Realtor told me about the appointment he was on 13 or 14 years ago. He was talking to this seller about listing his house. The house had been on the market for a year, with 2 different real estate agents and the listing had expired for the second time.

Anyway, at the listing meeting, the seller asks, "Hey, do you put flyers out in the those boxes you put in the front yard". My buddy tell him that he actually doesn't do flyers (anymore), but instead does it better by using this text for more information service. My buddy then gives him a demonstration (which I have to admit, was way cooler than flyers).

Anyway, the seller looks at my friends and says, "I don't know about that texting, but I can tell you those flyers are great and really work." My buddy asks him explain. The seller then tells him that his last Realtor would put like 50 flyers out on Friday and by Sunday evening, the box was empty! "Those flyers are great, people pick those up left and right. I can look from my window and watch people grab one".

My friend looks at the seller and says, "I hate to break this to you, but if those flyers really worked, I wouldn't be here today talking to you about listing your house because it didn't sell again."

He got the listing and got it sold in less than 30 days.

The point of the story: Someone's opinion of what works or doesn't work is often vastly different than reality.

D. C. Bear said:

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Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

---

It is not "in my own mind" that you aren't very good at interpreting data. Your "reasoning" is literally the kind of example one would use to teach students what not to do when looking at data. You start by getting the data wrong and then you fail to use basic reasoning skills. This isn't my opinion, this is just a fact.

There have been roughly 700,000 deaths in the United States from COVID. A little over 5,000 of those COVID deaths have been among fully vaccinated individuals. So, roughly 695,000 out of 700,000 deaths have been among unvaccinated individuals. For more meaningful numbers, take the deaths since April 2021, when vaccines were widely available. In those cases, about 220,000 of 225,000 deaths have been unvaccinated individuals. So, roughly 98 percent of the COVID deaths in the United States have been among unvaccinated since vaccines became widely available.

Therefore, the idea that these vaccines are not working is not supported by data, no matter whether you want it to be or not. Had we been able to get everyone vaccinated, COVID deaths would be orders of magnitude lower.

---

singapore line 1! Please pick up

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

---

It is not "in my own mind" that you aren't very good at interpreting data. Your "reasoning" is literally the kind of example one would use to teach students what not to do when looking at data. You start by getting the data wrong and then you fail to use basic reasoning skills. This isn't my opinion, this is just a fact.

There have been roughly 700,000 deaths in the United States from COVID. A little over 5,000 of those COVID deaths have been among fully vaccinated individuals. So, roughly 695,000 out of 700,000 deaths have been among unvaccinated individuals. For more meaningful numbers, take the deaths since April 2021, when vaccines were widely available. In those cases, about 220,000 of 225,000 deaths have been unvaccinated individuals. So, roughly 98 percent of the COVID deaths in the United States have been among unvaccinated since vaccines became widely available.

Therefore, the idea that these vaccines are not working is not supported by data, no matter whether you want it to be or not. Had we been able to get everyone vaccinated, COVID deaths would be orders of magnitude lower.

---

singapore line 1! Please pick up

---

Is that supposed to mean something?

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

---

It is not "in my own mind" that you aren't very good at interpreting data. Your "reasoning" is literally the kind of example one would use to teach students what not to do when looking at data. You start by getting the data wrong and then you fail to use basic reasoning skills. This isn't my opinion, this is just a fact.

There have been roughly 700,000 deaths in the United States from COVID. A little over 5,000 of those COVID deaths have been among fully vaccinated individuals. So, roughly 695,000 out of 700,000 deaths have been among unvaccinated individuals. For more meaningful numbers, take the deaths since April 2021, when vaccines were widely available. In those cases, about 220,000 of 225,000 deaths have been unvaccinated individuals. So, roughly 98 percent of the COVID deaths in the United States have been among unvaccinated since vaccines became widely available.

Therefore, the idea that these vaccines are not working is not supported by data, no matter whether you want it to be or not. Had we been able to get everyone vaccinated, COVID deaths would be orders of magnitude lower.

---

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I never said that the vaccine didn't protect some people from death. That was your assumption. Unfortunately in your zeal to defend the experimental vaccine, you've read a whole lot more into my brief comments than what I said or intended.

My point was broader. We've been told from the get go that once the vaccine becomes prevalent deaths would decrease. And we've seen just the opposite. The saturation of the vaccine has not prevented the spread by or the death rate. And that's troubling with a population more than 50% vaccinated.

Next time just ask for clarification instead of making insulting assumptions.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

---

There have been roughly 700,000 deaths in the United States from COVID. A little over 5,000 of those COVID deaths have been among fully vaccinated individuals. So, roughly 695,000 out of 700,000 deaths have been among unvaccinated individuals. For more meaningful numbers, take the deaths since April 2021, when vaccines were widely available. In those cases, about 220,000 of 225,000 deaths have been unvaccinated individuals. So, roughly 98 percent of the COVID deaths in the United States have been among unvaccinated since vaccines became widely available.

---

Although I support an individual's right not to get vaccinated .........this paragraph should end all reasonable debate on the merits of the vaccine itself .

D. C. Bear said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

---

It is not "in my own mind" that you aren't very good at interpreting data. Your "reasoning" is literally the kind of example one would use to teach students what not to do when looking at data. You start by getting the data wrong and then you fail to use basic reasoning skills. This isn't my opinion, this is just a fact.

There have been roughly 700,000 deaths in the United States from COVID. A little over 5,000 of those COVID deaths have been among fully vaccinated individuals. So, roughly 695,000 out of 700,000 deaths have been among unvaccinated individuals. For more meaningful numbers, take the deaths since April 2021, when vaccines were widely available. In those cases, about 220,000 of 225,000 deaths have been unvaccinated individuals. So, roughly 98 percent of the COVID deaths in the United States have been among unvaccinated since vaccines became widely available.

Therefore, the idea that these vaccines are not working is not supported by data, no matter whether you want it to be or not. Had we been able to get everyone vaccinated, COVID deaths would be orders of magnitude lower.

---

singapore line 1! Please pick up

---

Is that supposed to mean something?

---

pick up the white Courtesy phone and find out

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

---

It is not "in my own mind" that you aren't very good at interpreting data. Your "reasoning" is literally the kind of example one would use to teach students what not to do when looking at data. You start by getting the data wrong and then you fail to use basic reasoning skills. This isn't my opinion, this is just a fact.

There have been roughly 700,000 deaths in the United States from COVID. A little over 5,000 of those COVID deaths have been among fully vaccinated individuals. So, roughly 695,000 out of 700,000 deaths have been among unvaccinated individuals. For more meaningful numbers, take the deaths since April 2021, when vaccines were widely available. In those cases, about 220,000 of 225,000 deaths have been unvaccinated individuals. So, roughly 98 percent of the COVID deaths in the United States have been among unvaccinated since vaccines became widely available.

Therefore, the idea that these vaccines are not working is not supported by data, no matter whether you want it to be or not. Had we been able to get everyone vaccinated, COVID deaths would be orders of magnitude lower.

---

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I never said that the vaccine didn't protect some people from death. That was your assumption. Unfortunately in your zeal to defend the experimental vaccine, you've read a whole lot more into my brief comments than what I said or intended.

My point was broader. We've been told from the get go that once the vaccine becomes prevalent deaths would decrease. And we've seen just the opposite. The saturation of the vaccine has not prevented the spread by or the death rate. And that's troubling with a population more than 50% vaccinated.

Next time just ask for clarification instead of making insulting assumptions.

---

My reading comprehension is fine, your understanding of data is not

We have seen deaths plummet among the population that has been vaccinated. When 98 percent of the deaths are among unvaccinated individuals (even though the most vulnerable are over represented in the vaccinated population) there is no "except" to my statement that the vaccines are saving lives and it is unfortunate that we did not have it sooner and that more people have not taken it. The vaccine does not just protect "some people" from death, it protects nearly everyone who takes it from death by COVID. We have two populations right now in our country. One is vaccinated and one is not. For the vaccinated population, COVID is less dangerous than a staircase.

D. C. Bear said:

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Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

---

It is not "in my own mind" that you aren't very good at interpreting data. Your "reasoning" is literally the kind of example one would use to teach students what not to do when looking at data. You start by getting the data wrong and then you fail to use basic reasoning skills. This isn't my opinion, this is just a fact.

There have been roughly 700,000 deaths in the United States from COVID. A little over 5,000 of those COVID deaths have been among fully vaccinated individuals. So, roughly 695,000 out of 700,000 deaths have been among unvaccinated individuals. For more meaningful numbers, take the deaths since April 2021, when vaccines were widely available. In those cases, about 220,000 of 225,000 deaths have been unvaccinated individuals. So, roughly 98 percent of the COVID deaths in the United States have been among unvaccinated since vaccines became widely available.

Therefore, the idea that these vaccines are not working is not supported by data, no matter whether you want it to be or not. Had we been able to get everyone vaccinated, COVID deaths would be orders of magnitude lower.

---

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I never said that the vaccine didn't protect some people from death. That was your assumption. Unfortunately in your zeal to defend the experimental vaccine, you've read a whole lot more into my brief comments than what I said or intended.

My point was broader. We've been told from the get go that once the vaccine becomes prevalent deaths would decrease. And we've seen just the opposite. The saturation of the vaccine has not prevented the spread by or the death rate. And that's troubling with a population more than 50% vaccinated.

Next time just ask for clarification instead of making insulting assumptions.

---

For 97+% of the world population, COVID is less dangerous than a staircase.

---

Hey, I'm just here waiting for the two week flatten the curve strategy to be finished

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

fadskier said:

---

More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

---

Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

---

Yes, thank God the vaccine is saving lives. Too bad we didn't have the vaccine widely available sooner, and too bad more people haven't taken it so that more lives could be saved.

---

Uh huh. Except the numbers are worse and most of the public is vaccinated.

---

You are not very good at interpreting data are you?

---

I not as good as you are in your own mind, that's for sure.

---

It is not "in my own mind" that you aren't very good at interpreting data. Your "reasoning" is literally the kind of example one would use to teach students what not to do when looking at data. You start by getting the data wrong and then you fail to use basic reasoning skills. This isn't my opinion, this is just a fact.

There have been roughly 700,000 deaths in the United States from COVID. A little over 5,000 of those COVID deaths have been among fully vaccinated individuals. So, roughly 695,000 out of 700,000 deaths have been among unvaccinated individuals. For more meaningful numbers, take the deaths since April 2021, when vaccines were widely available. In those cases, about 220,000 of 225,000 deaths have been unvaccinated individuals. So, roughly 98 percent of the COVID deaths in the United States have been among unvaccinated since vaccines became widely available.

Therefore, the idea that these vaccines are not working is not supported by data, no matter whether you want it to be or not. Had we been able to get everyone vaccinated, COVID deaths would be orders of magnitude lower.

---

singapore line 1! Please pick up

---

Is that supposed to mean something?

---

pick up the white Courtesy phone and find out

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I had looked at them. Still not sure what you are trying to say about Singapore.

Rawhide said:

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Hey, I'm just here waiting for the two week flatten the curve strategy to be finished

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expectaion is Neveruary.. on schedule so far

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

They would if 'contributing health conditions' were used to add to the score.

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

They would if 'contributing health conditions' were used to add to the score.

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

They would if 'contributing health conditions' were used to add to the score.

---

---

BS and you know it.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

They would if 'contributing health conditions' were used to add to the score.

---

---

BS and you know it.

---

The only 'BS' is what we hear from Fauci.

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

---

with not of.. yawn

My uncle didnt die of covid, he died of stage 4 lung cancer. He was covid positive within 2 weeks of when he died. He was basically on hospic care when he got covid. Guess who is in that stat count you spout?

You guys swear by your stats having no clue about how they are calculated and what relavence they may have..

Excess death totals is probably closer but then some of those are from people failing to get needed medical care when hospitals were shut down.

Since the total excess death count less than total covid deaths, that covid death stat is complete garbage.

You keep living in your little land of fear though.. we are probably looking at around half that number being directly related to a death caused or severely complicated by covid.

I know I am not changing your mind but I will keep pointing out the logical inconsistency of your argument.

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

---

with not of.. yawn

My uncle didnt die of covid, he died of stage 4 lung cancer. He was covid positive within 2 weeks of when he died. He was basically on hospic care when he got covid. Guess who is in that stat count you spout?

You guys swear by your stats having no clue about how they are calculated and what relavence they may have..

Excess death totals is probably closer but then some of those are from people failing to get needed medical care when hospitals were shut down.

Since the total excess death count less than total covid deaths, that covid death stat is complete garbage.

You keep living in your little land of fear though.. we are probably looking at around half that number being directly related to a death caused or severely complicated by covid.

I know I am not changing your mind but I will keep pointing out the logical inconsistency of your argument.

---

You keep lying about me "living in fear," and let's assume, based on your supposition, that only 350,000 of those who are said to have died from COVID actually died from COVID. That's still not insignificant, and is still orders of magnitude greater than the staircase example, and those who are vaccinated are still at about as much risk from COVID as they are from falling down stairs, if not less risk.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

They would if 'contributing health conditions' were used to add to the score.

---

---

BS and you know it.

---

its ok that you dont know that you dont know..

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

---

with not of.. yawn

My uncle didnt die of covid, he died of stage 4 lung cancer. He was covid positive within 2 weeks of when he died. He was basically on hospic care when he got covid. Guess who is in that stat count you spout?

You guys swear by your stats having no clue about how they are calculated and what relavence they may have..

Excess death totals is probably closer but then some of those are from people failing to get needed medical care when hospitals were shut down.

Since the total excess death count less than total covid deaths, that covid death stat is complete garbage.

You keep living in your little land of fear though.. we are probably looking at around half that number being directly related to a death caused or severely complicated by covid.

I know I am not changing your mind but I will keep pointing out the logical inconsistency of your argument.

---

and those who are vaccinated are still at about as much risk from COVID as they are from falling down stairs, if not less risk.

---

Which is why it should be only common sense for those over 50 to get vaccinated ........but not coerced into doing so .

If younger adults want to leap 3 steps at a time...more power to em.

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

---

with not of.. yawn

My uncle didnt die of covid, he died of stage 4 lung cancer. He was covid positive within 2 weeks of when he died. He was basically on hospic care when he got covid. Guess who is in that stat count you spout?

You guys swear by your stats having no clue about how they are calculated and what relavence they may have..

Excess death totals is probably closer but then some of those are from people failing to get needed medical care when hospitals were shut down.

Since the total excess death count less than total covid deaths, that covid death stat is complete garbage.

You keep living in your little land of fear though.. we are probably looking at around half that number being directly related to a death caused or severely complicated by covid.

I know I am not changing your mind but I will keep pointing out the logical inconsistency of your argument.

---

You keep lying about me "living in fear," and let's assume, based on your supposition, that only 350,000 of those who are said to have died from COVID actually died from COVID. That's still not insignificant, and is still orders of magnitude greater than the staircase example, and those who are vaccinated are still at about as much risk from COVID as they are from falling down stairs, if not less risk.

---

prove it.. you cant because the data set is incomplete but i want to watch you try anyway..

61 deaths per 100k for deaths due to falling in US in 2016(1 of 1639)- first thing that popped on the google search

Covid deaths at were i put them is 1 of 942(mas y menos). The covid surges continue to happen and then vax death toll contines to climb world wide. Your assumptions about the miracle immunity granted to humans by the vax would be like Florda Mike telling you the death toll in aug of 21 is higher than the death toll in aug of 2020 so the vax doesnt work. Two different surge time lines so not comparable. We are also incomplete in our 21 data set plus the 2 prior surges produced large amounts of the population with natural immunity so there are less unprotected to die from the disease..

I can poke a dozen holes in your argument without thinking hard.

Do we really need to keep doing this?

Canada2017 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

---

with not of.. yawn

My uncle didnt die of covid, he died of stage 4 lung cancer. He was covid positive within 2 weeks of when he died. He was basically on hospic care when he got covid. Guess who is in that stat count you spout?

You guys swear by your stats having no clue about how they are calculated and what relavence they may have..

Excess death totals is probably closer but then some of those are from people failing to get needed medical care when hospitals were shut down.

Since the total excess death count less than total covid deaths, that covid death stat is complete garbage.

You keep living in your little land of fear though.. we are probably looking at around half that number being directly related to a death caused or severely complicated by covid.

I know I am not changing your mind but I will keep pointing out the logical inconsistency of your argument.

---

and those who are vaccinated are still at about as much risk from COVID as they are from falling down stairs, if not less risk.

---

Which is why it should be only common sense for those over 50 to get vaccinated ........but not coerced into doing so .

If younger adults want to leap 3 steps at a time...more power to em.

---

Maybe over 50 or fat under 50, but I have never advocated for coercing them to be vaccinated in any event.

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

---

with not of.. yawn

My uncle didnt die of covid, he died of stage 4 lung cancer. He was covid positive within 2 weeks of when he died. He was basically on hospic care when he got covid. Guess who is in that stat count you spout?

You guys swear by your stats having no clue about how they are calculated and what relavence they may have..

Excess death totals is probably closer but then some of those are from people failing to get needed medical care when hospitals were shut down.

Since the total excess death count less than total covid deaths, that covid death stat is complete garbage.

You keep living in your little land of fear though.. we are probably looking at around half that number being directly related to a death caused or severely complicated by covid.

I know I am not changing your mind but I will keep pointing out the logical inconsistency of your argument.

---

You keep lying about me "living in fear," and let's assume, based on your supposition, that only 350,000 of those who are said to have died from COVID actually died from COVID. That's still not insignificant, and is still orders of magnitude greater than the staircase example, and those who are vaccinated are still at about as much risk from COVID as they are from falling down stairs, if not less risk.

---

prove it.. you cant because the data set is incomplete but i want to watch you try anyway..

---

Prove what? That if I accept your "numbers" my point still stands? That's precisely what I did.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

---

with not of.. yawn

My uncle didnt die of covid, he died of stage 4 lung cancer. He was covid positive within 2 weeks of when he died. He was basically on hospic care when he got covid. Guess who is in that stat count you spout?

You guys swear by your stats having no clue about how they are calculated and what relavence they may have..

Excess death totals is probably closer but then some of those are from people failing to get needed medical care when hospitals were shut down.

Since the total excess death count less than total covid deaths, that covid death stat is complete garbage.

You keep living in your little land of fear though.. we are probably looking at around half that number being directly related to a death caused or severely complicated by covid.

I know I am not changing your mind but I will keep pointing out the logical inconsistency of your argument.

---

and those who are vaccinated are still at about as much risk from COVID as they are from falling down stairs, if not less risk.

---

Which is why it should be only common sense for those over 50 to get vaccinated ........but not coerced into doing so .

If younger adults want to leap 3 steps at a time...more power to em.

---

Maybe over 50 or fat under 50, but I have never advocated for coercing them to be vaccinated in any event.

---

Man is THAT ever another conversation .

Fat under 50.......try fat under 20. Horrible health problem throughout the US.

I realize you haven't advocated coercion of any kind and your latest statistics definitely impressed.

Doubt they will change anyone's mind though. People have their minds made up...come what may .

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Staircases don't kill 1 in 500 Americans.

---

you dont know of a virus that has either

---

Covid is closer to one in 467, so 1 in 500 isn't far off.

---

Its actually not but whatever..

---

330,000,000/700,000 ish is about 1 in 470.

---

with not of.. yawn

My uncle didnt die of covid, he died of stage 4 lung cancer. He was covid positive within 2 weeks of when he died. He was basically on hospic care when he got covid. Guess who is in that stat count you spout?

You guys swear by your stats having no clue about how they are calculated and what relavence they may have..

Excess death totals is probably closer but then some of those are from people failing to get needed medical care when hospitals were shut down.

Since the total excess death count less than total covid deaths, that covid death stat is complete garbage.

You keep living in your little land of fear though.. we are probably looking at around half that number being directly related to a death caused or severely complicated by covid.

I know I am not changing your mind but I will keep pointing out the logical inconsistency of your argument.

---

You keep lying about me "living in fear," and let's assume, based on your supposition, that only 350,000 of those who are said to have died from COVID actually died from COVID. That's still not insignificant, and is still orders of magnitude greater than the staircase example, and those who are vaccinated are still at about as much risk from COVID as they are from falling down stairs, if not less risk.

---

prove it.. you cant because the data set is incomplete but i want to watch you try anyway..

---

Prove what? That if I accept your "numbers" my point still stands? That's precisely what I did.

---

nope, you feel the need to claim vctory in the game after completeing a pass in the first quarter. Too much game left to know all the stats. The trends in places like Israel and UK have been encouraging but were also effected by prior surges. Singapore is different because they never had a significant prior surge. The 92% vaxed population is getting hit with record level deaths.

Mothra said:

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fadskier said:

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More people have died from coronavirus in 2021 than in 2020. Why aren't people on here calling out and blaming Biden for these deaths as they blamed Trump?

Biden's own words:

• October 5, 2020: "More than 200,000 Americans have died. 50,000 Americans are getting the virus every day. 1,000 a day are dying. This is a national emergency. The President should take responsibility."
• October 15, 2020: "We're eight months into this pandemic, and Donald Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control. I do."
• October 27, 2020: "If you give me the honor of serving as your president, I won't waste any time getting this virus under control and building our nation back better."
• October 30, 2020: "I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus."
• November 1, 2020: "More than 230,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and Donald Trump has given up on trying to get the virus under control. He may have quit on you, but I promise I never will."

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Thank God the vaccine is saving lives! I mean, err...never mind.

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The vaccines have saved millions. Stop your antiscience bs. Save the stupidity for politics.