Gameday Thread: #15 Baylor vs #7 Kansas

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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I hate to say this, but we seem to play better without Langston Love.

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Or, call me crazy, we're gelling and improving as a team, which is what the handful of rational posters on this board have been saying would happen all along.

Suggesting we're a worse team with Love is an all-time head scratching take. If anything, if he comes back at full strength, he raises our ceiling to potential Final Four caliber.

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Well, I actually do call you crazy because you're a leftist so it's apropos, but regardless.....

Yes, it's possible we're just gelling as a team at this moment. But it's also possible that the gelling has been facilitated because there was a shakeup in the lineup. Sometimes this happens, and a team finds itself. Sometimes an injury to a major player "wakes up" other players and they elevate their games, or they get a lot more minutes, and the result is better than it was before. That's all I'm insinuating. Love is a great player, and we're a better team talent-wise with him than without. But chemistry and dynamics factor into winning big games, probably more that overall talent. I'm just saying it seems like that's what's happening. Again, like I said I hated to say it, and I hope I'm wrong. It was just an opinion, and I'm sorry if I got the Baylor panty party that inhabits these sports boards all wadded up, which usually happens anytime there's a negative comment.

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I'm a leftist because I think our second best player in Big 12 play returning would make us a better team?

Sheesh. Partisan politics have rotted your brain.

Mitch Henessey said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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I hate to say this, but we seem to play better without Langston Love.

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Or, call me crazy, we're gelling and improving as a team, which is what the handful of rational posters on this board have been saying would happen all along.

Suggesting we're a worse team with Love is an all-time head scratching take. If anything, if he comes back at full strength, he raises our ceiling to potential Final Four caliber.

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You're right on this one, of course. We're playing really well without Love right now, but we're not playing better because Love is gone.

There are no negatives to adding him back to his bench role. We get some offensive punch from a spot we're currently getting none and don't have to play Lohner or Little as many minutes, if at all.

This is a classic case of correlation not equaling causation.

Nunn and Bridges upping their games has been huge for this team. But they could have done the same thing with Love in the rotation and will hopefully continue to play well when he returns.

Mitch Henessey said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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I hate to say this, but we seem to play better without Langston Love.

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Or, call me crazy, we're gelling and improving as a team, which is what the handful of rational posters on this board have been saying would happen all along.

Suggesting we're a worse team with Love is an all-time head scratching take. If anything, if he comes back at full strength, he raises our ceiling to potential Final Four caliber.

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Well, I actually do call you crazy because you're a leftist so it's apropos, but regardless.....

Yes, it's possible we're just gelling as a team at this moment. But it's also possible that the gelling has been facilitated because there was a shakeup in the lineup. Sometimes this happens, and a team finds itself. Sometimes an injury to a major player "wakes up" other players and they elevate their games, or they get a lot more minutes, and the result is better than it was before. That's all I'm insinuating. Love is a great player, and we're a better team talent-wise with him than without. But chemistry and dynamics factor into winning big games, probably more that overall talent. I'm just saying it seems like that's what's happening. Again, like I said I hated to say it, and I hope I'm wrong. It was just an opinion, and I'm sorry if I got the Baylor panty party that inhabits these sports boards all wadded up, which usually happens anytime there's a negative comment.

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I'm a leftist because I think our second best player in Big 12 play returning would make us a better team?

Sheesh. Partisan politics have rotted your brain.

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So you're not?

As much as I loved them Vital and Thamba had hands of stone in the paint for the most part. Missi is blessed with freakish athleticism and wonderful hands. Very rarely does he bobble or miss a pass

bear2be2 said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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I hate to say this, but we seem to play better without Langston Love.

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Or, call me crazy, we're gelling and improving as a team, which is what the handful of rational posters on this board have been saying would happen all along.

Suggesting we're a worse team with Love is an all-time head scratching take. If anything, if he comes back at full strength, he raises our ceiling to potential Final Four caliber.

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You're right on this one, of course. We're playing really well without Love right now, but we're not playing better because Love is gone.

There are no negatives to adding him back to his bench role. We get some offensive punch from a spot we're currently getting none and don't have to play Lohner or Little as many minutes, if at all.

This is a classic case of correlation not equaling causation.

Nunn and Bridges upping their games has been huge for this team. But they could have done the same thing with Love in the rotation and will hopefully continue to play well when he returns.

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There is a grain of truth to what he is saying. Love was a such a high usage offensive player, it was easy for more passive guys like Bridges to stand around and watch while he would isolate and go to work. It will be a delicate balancing act when and if Love is able to return. We obviously want Love to be as effective as he was before, but there's only one ball to go around and we need to keep Nunn and Bridges rolling.

MBB, Softball and Baseball all get the W today;

BEARS WIN! SERIES CLINCHED!

McKinney picks up his first-career win, Pendergrass drives in three, Jordan homers and Calder earns a four-inning save to seal the deal! #SicEm 🐻⚾️ | #Together pic.twitter.com/GMyimJnL8Z

— Baylor Baseball (@BaylorBaseball) March 2, 2024

Lady Bears need to win tomorrow vs the Pokettes!

boognish_bear said:

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Thank you Baylor Fam for Bringing the Energy!!!! As u can tell the Team Fed off of it! #JOY https://t.co/0hMDnIlXdk

— Scott Drew (@BUDREW) March 2, 2024

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Is there another video angle of this dunk. There's got to be I need to appreciate it from a closer view.

boognish_bear said:

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Thank you Baylor Fam for Bringing the Energy!!!! As u can tell the Team Fed off of it! #JOY https://t.co/0hMDnIlXdk

— Scott Drew (@BUDREW) March 2, 2024

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That is a gravity-defying dunk by Missi. That kid is special already. And he's only going to keep getting better.

ImABearToo said:

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The turnovers aren't.

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He only had three today, which is a good number for how much of our offense goes through him.

RayJ is a great player in the midst of a great year for us. The hyper-critical eye some watch him with is silly. He's averaging the exact same number turnovers (3.4) this year that Pierre Jackson did as a senior, and no one gave Pierre the same level of *****

Our point guards are going to turn the ball over because the ball is in their hands constantly. RayJ does way more good than bad.

Fre3dombear said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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We tried to pi s s it away. So weird. Overall pretty damn good from the line and missing key free throws in the clutch. Survived it

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We never led by less than four points for the final 13 minutes of the game. Of course Kansas is going to do their best to make runs. That's not the same thing as pissing it away. You glass half empty people are weird.

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Nah. Up 14 or so and put it in doubt. These things matter in the tourney and need to improve them wherever possible to make this team more complete

Example Nunn bricking a FT and then jakobe bricks front end 1 and 1 which created a 5 point swing instead of basically ending it there. It's a free throw. We miss too many in the clutch. That offends some y'all. Is what it is

I get most of y'all livin in 2010 baylor or Dave Aranda football baylor.

Win is great of course. Some of us look at the finer points of the game and the bigger patterns / opportunities for improvement

Obv a good W but damn some y'all get butt hurt so easy

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That's basketball, dude. It's a game of runs. Good teams are almost always going to make one.

TWD 1974 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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hitmanmw said:

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Dennis was so clutch today (7-8). Meanwhile Walter is still MIA…AGAIN!! I don't get the open airball
3s…

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Dude, chill. We won and it actually wasn't that close.

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Yeah, and he wasn't even MIA. He was all over the place on both ends. He contributes to winning in a variety of ways, even when his shot isn't falling.

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Yeah, not sure what game some folks were watching. The 8 rebounds, 2 offensive rebounds for Jakobi were huge.

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Ja'Kobe does a lot of little things that help us win. But he does need to find his shot for us to reach our full potential. Both things can be and are true.

bear2be2 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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We tried to pi s s it away. So weird. Overall pretty damn good from the line and missing key free throws in the clutch. Survived it

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We never led by less than four points for the final 13 minutes of the game. Of course Kansas is going to do their best to make runs. That's not the same thing as pissing it away. You glass half empty people are weird.

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Nah. Up 14 or so and put it in doubt. These things matter in the tourney and need to improve them wherever possible to make this team more complete

Example Nunn bricking a FT and then jakobe bricks front end 1 and 1 which created a 5 point swing instead of basically ending it there. It's a free throw. We miss too many in the clutch. That offends some y'all. Is what it is

I get most of y'all livin in 2010 baylor or Dave Aranda football baylor.

Win is great of course. Some of us look at the finer points of the game and the bigger patterns / opportunities for improvement

Obv a good W but damn some y'all get butt hurt so easy

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That's basketball, dude. It's a game of runs. Good teams are almost always going to make one.

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No kidding dude. That said, we need to improve on closing out. Almost bit us again today. We're getting there.

Both things can be true

MIRGHT

Yes

bear2be2 said:

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ImABearToo said:

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The turnovers aren't.

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He only had three today, which is a good number for how much of our offense goes through him.

RayJ is a great player in the midst of a great year for us. The hyper-critical eye some watch him with is silly. He's averaging the exact same number turnovers (3.4) this year that Pierre Jackson did as a senior, and no one gave Pierre the same level of *****

Our point guards are going to turn the ball over because the ball is in their hands constantly. RayJ does way more good than bad.

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I think the consternation about RayJ's turnovers is about how they come, not that they come. Whereas most PG turnovers are things like getting trapped and losing the ball, or a pocket pass getting fumbled in the lane and picked up by the other team, his are sometimes direct passes to the other team that lead to run out layups.

These do bother me a bit more than the types of turnovers I mentioned earlier, because it's automatic points in transition, as opposed to us being able to get back and at least set up a defense. That said, RayJ has been fantastic for us, and you take the good with the bad. His ability to find those skip passes is precisely why we're so good on offense. If he throws the occasional one away, so be it.

bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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I hate to say this, but we seem to play better without Langston Love.

---

Or, call me crazy, we're gelling and improving as a team, which is what the handful of rational posters on this board have been saying would happen all along.

Suggesting we're a worse team with Love is an all-time head scratching take. If anything, if he comes back at full strength, he raises our ceiling to potential Final Four caliber.

---

You're right on this one, of course. We're playing really well without Love right now, but we're not playing better because Love is gone.

There are no negatives to adding him back to his bench role. We get some offensive punch from a spot we're currently getting none and don't have to play Lohner or Little as many minutes, if at all.

This is a classic case of correlation not equaling causation.

Nunn and Bridges upping their games has been huge for this team. But they could have done the same thing with Love in the rotation and will hopefully continue to play well when he returns.

---

There is a grain of truth to what he is saying. Love was a such a high usage offensive player, it was easy for more passive guys like Bridges to stand around and watch while he would isolate and go to work. It will be a delicate balancing act when and if Love is able to return. We obviously want Love to be as effective as he was before, but there's only one ball to go around and we need to keep Nunn and Bridges rolling.

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If healthy and capable of playing at his previous level, there is no downside whatsoever to adding Love back to our rotation. He only makes us better.

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I understand this is the more favorable way to think, and the safe bet is that it's more likely true, but as a philosophical point no one can absolutely know this for certain. Not for any player on any team. The governing dynamics are so fluid and involve so many interdependent variables, and it would involve a kind of counterfactual knowledge that only God possesses.

You're more correct. Bear2 is making the continued mistake of stat counting/citing again. Shots put up isn't the thing. There a plenty of possessions he penetrates and it isn't there. Then kicks out late in shot clock. That is still a ball dominant possession. You are right.

You're observing that Love goes heavy head down iso and reset to try and get a shot when nobody takes the reins . I think it's fine and have no complaints on Loves offensive game. Has been great. But anybody who played knows the tendency to stand and watch especially when you are a more deferential type player. It didn't come across as any knock on Love.

Fortunately Love is also a great spot up shooter. Spacing and being ready to knock it down should help him settle in.

Fre3dombear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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We tried to pi s s it away. So weird. Overall pretty damn good from the line and missing key free throws in the clutch. Survived it

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We never led by less than four points for the final 13 minutes of the game. Of course Kansas is going to do their best to make runs. That's not the same thing as pissing it away. You glass half empty people are weird.

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Nah. Up 14 or so and put it in doubt. These things matter in the tourney and need to improve them wherever possible to make this team more complete

Example Nunn bricking a FT and then jakobe bricks front end 1 and 1 which created a 5 point swing instead of basically ending it there. It's a free throw. We miss too many in the clutch. That offends some y'all. Is what it is

I get most of y'all livin in 2010 baylor or Dave Aranda football baylor.

Win is great of course. Some of us look at the finer points of the game and the bigger patterns / opportunities for improvement

Obv a good W but damn some y'all get butt hurt so easy

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That's basketball, dude. It's a game of runs. Good teams are almost always going to make one.

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No kidding dude. That said, we need to improve on closing out. Almost bit us again today. We're getting there.

Both things can be true

MIRGHT

Yes

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It didn't come close to biting us at all. Once we went on our run, Kansas never got it to a one possession game again. You act as if there is only one team on the court. There is another top 15 team and they play offense and defense too. When it was time to make plays, we made plays.

IowaBear said:

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Also allows our guards sone rest as they're logging like 38 minutes a game right now

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Good point here....especially come tournament time when we are playing two in 3 days. (Well...hopefully we are)

And hopefully for multiple weekends

If the holder of the #TowelSnake at the end of the game would like to bring it to Scruffs and hang it from the rafters, we would be honored!#SicEm pic.twitter.com/5wNa5UtNGt

— Scruffy Murphy's (@ScruffyMurphys1) March 2, 2024

If it is noticeable that a team starts playing better after losing a player, I don't see why it's such an irrational take to think it is possible that the change in chemistry and dynamics is a significant factor. We see this happen all the time, in every sport. It's not a knock on the player, it's just an acknowledgement of how the puzzle of sports, let alone life, can be so complex as to be beyond knowable.

What's our record without LL? 4-3 or something like that?
Do you actually believe this team is better off without their most reliable guard prior to his injury? He won us several games this year.
I'm sorry but that's just an idiotic take by anyone who actually believes we're better without him

IowaBear said:

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What's our record without LL? 4-3 or something like that?
Do you actually believe this team is better off without their most reliable guard prior to his injury? He won us several games this year.
I'm sorry but that's just an idiotic take by anyone who actually believes we're better without him

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Hold on, now, I'm not saying anything about being "better off without him". Just answer - do you feel we are playing better right now, and is it possible it's in significant part due to the change?

Do I feel like we're playing better than with him?
No a simple no. We're 2-2 in our last 4. Not sure why you're acting like we're on this incredible winning streak.
His injury has caused others to lift their games out of necessity. Bridges, Nunn, Walter have all had to up their games to make up for the loss of LL.
The ceiling of this team is significantly higher with a healthy LL than without

IowaBear said:

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Do I feel like we're playing better than with him?
No a simple no. We're 2-2 in our last 4. Not sure why you're acting like we're on this incredible winning streak.
His injury has caused others to lift their games out of necessity. Bridges, Nunn, Walter have all had to up their games to make up for the loss of LL.
The ceiling of this team is significantly higher with a healthy LL than without

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Okay, then, if you don't think we're playing better now, then the point is moot for you. Others do feel we're playing better right now, including myself. Yes, I agree that Bridges, Nunn, Walter, and don't forget Missi and Dennis have all had to up their games, and the result in my mind has been better play overall compared to before. I think the wake up really happened in the second half of the Houston game, and the team found something. Since then we toasted TCU and handled Kansas pretty well. We had comfortable leads in both games. Things subjectively look smoother and the flow seems to be better. Could this have happened with LL healthy? Absolutely, but the point is it is also entirely possible that LL's absence is the catalyst. I don't think it's as "idiotic" or "head-scratching" to entertain this thought as you guys are making it out to be. I understand, though, why it might offend many of you and why many bristle at the suggestion.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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We tried to pi s s it away. So weird. Overall pretty damn good from the line and missing key free throws in the clutch. Survived it

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We never led by less than four points for the final 13 minutes of the game. Of course Kansas is going to do their best to make runs. That's not the same thing as pissing it away. You glass half empty people are weird.

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Nah. Up 14 or so and put it in doubt. These things matter in the tourney and need to improve them wherever possible to make this team more complete

Example Nunn bricking a FT and then jakobe bricks front end 1 and 1 which created a 5 point swing instead of basically ending it there. It's a free throw. We miss too many in the clutch. That offends some y'all. Is what it is

I get most of y'all livin in 2010 baylor or Dave Aranda football baylor.

Win is great of course. Some of us look at the finer points of the game and the bigger patterns / opportunities for improvement

Obv a good W but damn some y'all get butt hurt so easy

---

That's basketball, dude. It's a game of runs. Good teams are almost always going to make one.

---

No kidding dude. That said, we need to improve on closing out. Almost bit us again today. We're getting there.

Both things can be true

MIRGHT

Yes

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It didn't come close to biting us at all. Once we went on our run, Kansas never got it to a one possession game again. You act as if there is only one team on the court. There is another top 15 team and they play offense and defense too. When it was time to make plays, we made plays.

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Yep. Kansas cut it to four. We scored on the next possession, and the game was over. That's how winning basketball works. The other team makes a run and you answer it.

The key is to make sure your runs are bigger and longer than theirs.