MBB: Baylor (6-3) vs SFA (5-4) Preview & Game Thread

bularry said:

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Bear8084 said:

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BearBuck said:

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Clark played well and Makai was ok. Vital was good on boards (only). Everyone else sucked tonight. And our last offensive possession was awful.

Man that was a frustrating loss. This could be a long season. Might we go winless in Big 12 action?

Drew is a remarkable coach and it's gonna be an uphill battle to get this ragtag group playing like a team.

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Will be a long season, yes, but we won't go winless in the Big 12. The team that played at Arizona could play with almost anybody with that fire and play. The team from tonight can't beat anyone in the Big 12. I think we will see both as the season goes on.

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AZ ain't that good. I'm sure we'll squeak out a couple of wins, but we'll finish last. Without much hope for the future

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They will get better. I remember some bad seasons in the past, and Drew will build a respectable team in time. I figure post-season in 2019-20, and an NCAA run soon after. But this season is going to be a long, frustrating season. We might finish as high as 7th if things click, or dead last if it all stays crappy. Best guess I offer is a 4 or 5 conference win season.

Johnny Bear said:

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bularry said:

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Vital has to shoot ft better

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I appreciate his athleticism, hustle, rebounding ability and his defense, but for the love of Pete how can you be a scholarship D1 bball player in a P5 conference and constantly just throw up bricks off the back iron from the FT line and never improve even a little bit.

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The comparisons to Rodman are not without merit

Drew can be a good coach and simultaneously take the blame for tonight.

4 or 5 wins might be too many. An 8th place team would be an achievement. It would mean Mayer played well with Clark and Vital being two of best cleaning up overflowing garbage ball in the league.

bularry said:

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Bear8084 said:

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BearBuck said:

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Clark played well and Makai was ok. Vital was good on boards (only). Everyone else sucked tonight. And our last offensive possession was awful.

Man that was a frustrating loss. This could be a long season. Might we go winless in Big 12 action?

Drew is a remarkable coach and it's gonna be an uphill battle to get this ragtag group playing like a team.

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Will be a long season, yes, but we won't go winless in the Big 12. The team that played at Arizona could play with almost anybody with that fire and play. The team from tonight can't beat anyone in the Big 12. I think we will see both as the season goes on.

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AZ ain't that good. I'm sure we'll squeak out a couple of wins, but we'll finish last. Without much hope for the future

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Still winning at their place breaking the streak they have was impressive. And there is always hope for the future, it is not as bleak as it looks.

Some observations I found from the game tonight... Obviously this isn't Kansas, or a top 25 team, but there are flashes of a blueprint to a winning team that kill me when this team throws it away...
1. Tristan Clark needs more touches
I don't know if this is Drew's gameplay or if the fault lies with the guards, but makai mason running around on the Three point line waving off Clark and iso'ing isn't going to cut it. We have yet to really see Clark post up this season and has only really being used as a putback machine. Which to his credit, he is doing what he can with 23 points on only 9 shots.. We need more in the paint.. I don't know why we continue to think the three is going to fall after shooting the way we did this game. Work inside to out and take what the defense gives you with the advantage of Clark
2. The Interior defense is... bad
This one is completely a baffle to me with vital and Clark in the paint. this zone tonight was atrocious and opened up so many easy layups and dunks which in turn opened up the 3 pt shot for SFA
3. Mario Kegler is unplayable
Offensive fouls, 0-6 shooting and sinking in the zone have me wanting more Darius Allen. Oh boy.... has kegler become a disappointment indeed... I really don't know what to say except for me I'd rather see Mayer learn on the court than see Kegler's jack up another brick... sure Mayer get's too caught up with himself after a three, but he at least makes shots.
I love this team, as a Baylor junior I've seen Manu and Motley and Maston... I know this team isn't the past two years, but when you see this team you see IF they can fix the turnovers, defense and the identity of going into the paint first over outside shooting I think they can turn into a team that can pull off some upsets in Big 12 play.

Vital is going to have to come off the floor in the late stages of games. His futility at the free throw line and his lack of a shot from out on the floor makes him a liability, and teams knowing that will increasingly take advantage of his deficiencies coming down the stretch. Platooning can work to a degree, but having him out there is much like teams having Shaq out there - teams know that the foul is likely to give them a chance to cut the deficit by at least couple of points, so they will continue to do that until Baylor changes the lineup to prevent it.

Ashley, Kegler has not lived up to your expectations. What do you attribute this to at this point in the season?
I am astonished that Clark only got nine shots up tonight. I was unable to watch the game as it was unavailable out here, but I listened to the first half and it seemed that every time Clark got his hands on the ball he scored with it. I expected the poor free throw shooting of this team to cost them at least a couple of games, if not more.

Too much has been made of the win at Tucson, in my view. Arizona was awful in that game and Baylor was not nearly as bad as they were, but that certainly does not mean that Baylor is very good. I expected much more from their guards and perimeter players, but the lack of offense by this group of players is a head-scratcher for me. Individually they are much better than this, but the sum of the parts does not match up with the individual talent. Something is amiss.

At least 3, probably 4 of Clark's shots were easy dunks because of his position. The defender was fronting him and Clark got position 8 ft from the bucket. Mason threw perfect entry lob passes and Clark just turned and had easy dunks. It was as if the ref drew an 8 ft radius around the bucket and told SFA that no defenders were allowed.

I was fairly certain the Arizona win was fool's gold. Of course that turns out to be the case. Drew has spectacularly failed with building this team.

EGOTbear said:

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I was fairly certain the Arizona win was fool's gold. Of course that turns out to be the case. Drew has spectacularly failed with building this team.

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Just curious ... do you pee in your cheerios right before eating them, or the night before so the urine sinks into the cereal?

Of course our resident drama queen is quiet after the AZ win but is quick to chime in after a loss. What a miserable sack of sht.

Confirmed bad year. Arizona win wasn't impressive because they are awful. Most of us can deal wuth a down year or two but, man, has Kegler been a complete letdown. All the bluster about him the past year and a half. What were people watching? Must be a practice guy only because he is painful. Vital has regressed and Clark just isn't involved enough. I thought we'd have a good core moving forward to make noise the next two year but........

That 2-10 from King. Yeesh. Thanks for the Louisville game, buddy.

rudylaw said:

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Confirmed bad year. Arizona win wasn't impressive because they are awful. Most of us can deal wuth a down year or two but, man, has Kegler been a complete letdown. All the bluster about him the past year and a half. What were people watching? Must be a practice guy only because he is painful. Vital has regressed and Clark just isn't involved enough. I thought we'd have a good core moving forward to make noise the next two year but........

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Clark had 24 points. Exactly how would you define more involved?

King mcclure has to be one of the most disappoint BU players ever.

We knew what King was 2 years ago. Hes a solid player, very streaky, and not ever going to be the leader of this team. Anyone who is feeling let down by him only has themselves to blame. There is nothing surprising about him. He will finish his senior season just like the others. We are going to see a few really good games from him and several in which he just blends in.

There isn't a pure shooter on this team. There isn't a guy that can create his own shot on this team. This season hinges on defense and getting to the basket.

Drew should start setting limits on 3-pt attempts, because this team isn't winning games from deep.

BaylorOkie said:

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We knew what King was 2 years ago. Hes a solid player, very streaky, and not ever going to be the leader of this team. Anyone who is feeling let down by him only has themselves to blame. There is nothing surprising about him. He will finish his senior season just like the others. We are going to see a few really good games from him and several in which he just blends in.

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You are wrong. He was hyped up from the beginning as the future big time scorer for us. Has never happened.

EGOTbear said:

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BaylorOkie said:

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We knew what King was 2 years ago. Hes a solid player, very streaky, and not ever going to be the leader of this team. Anyone who is feeling let down by him only has themselves to blame. There is nothing surprising about him. He will finish his senior season just like the others. We are going to see a few really good games from him and several in which he just blends in.

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You are wrong. He was hyped up from the beginning as the future big time scorer for us. Has never happened.

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That's might be what you heard, but that's not the reality of what people were saying.

Flat out embarrassing.

Failure in almost every aspect.

A win by 8 points over that undermanned squad is still a failure. When we are playing a team that dresses out 8 players, there is no compelling reason to shoot the ball from more than 5 feet away. Draw fouls, draw fouls. I dont care how poorly we shoot from the line.

Just draw fouls, beginning to end.

boognish_bear said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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bularry said:

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Vital has to shoot ft better

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I appreciate his athleticism, hustle, rebounding ability and his defense, but for the love of Pete how can you be a scholarship D1 bball player in a P5 conference and constantly just throw up bricks off the back iron from the FT line and never improve even a little bit.

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The comparisons to Rodman are not without merit

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Rodman could at least hit some shots here and there that weren't point blank put backs or dunks.

EGOTbear said:

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BaylorOkie said:

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We knew what King was 2 years ago. Hes a solid player, very streaky, and not ever going to be the leader of this team. Anyone who is feeling let down by him only has themselves to blame. There is nothing surprising about him. He will finish his senior season just like the others. We are going to see a few really good games from him and several in which he just blends in.

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You are wrong. He was hyped up from the beginning as the future big time scorer for us. Has never happened.

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No. I'm not wrong. I don't care how he was hyped. I said 2 years ago we knew what he is and I am right. After he finished his sophomore year we knew all that we were going to know. He was over hyped as a recruit and that is not his problem or mine. If you still want to hang on to that and be pissed off and disappointed then that's on you.

Okie, I was one of those who thought that McClure would become a fine player by his junior and senior years when his physical problems were in his past. Why he has not done this, I can't say. If you watched him shoot as a first and second year player, the form was perfect, the rotation of the ball and the geometric arc was perfect, and he had an NBA body, with strength and sufficient quickness to get to the basket and finish there, or to pull up and take that good midrange shot that he shows occastionally. A player who averaged well over thirty points a game his senior year in high school with an excellent balance between perimeter threes and shots at the rim did not suddenly forget how to shoot and how to score.

The game he had against Louisville two years ago was indicative of his capabilities, but his inconsistency was bothersome and hard to fathom. He seemed to be too passive and too uncertain of his role and it is clear that seniority has not really changed that attitude very much. He also seems to have put on weight and that may have affected his quickness. When he arrived at Baylor he had a quick first step that enabled him to get past a primary defender and get to the basket, but it is not much in evidence now. Get him out in transition and the speed is commendable, but that sudden explosiveness to the rim is not in evidence in the half court sets we use.

I have been surprised and disappointed thus far in this, his last year, with the level of play I have seen from him.
I do not put the condition of this team on him, however, as much as an elevated level of play from him would have made a huge difference in a team seemingly devoid of leadership. Clearly I misjudged some elements in play with King, elements not readily visible in terms of skill and capability, elements that are difficult to measure but are crucial to a player reaching his full potential. This team needed things from King that he has not shown himself capable of providing. I cannot disagree with your assessment, and I accept my own limitations in judging the capabilities of this player, as I have of others.

Completely agree SetShot. Normally I am extremely positive but Arizona is HORRENDOUS. They will not make the tourney. We just weren't as bad as you say.

We lack shooters and more worrisome effort and intensity. We didn't even attempt to stop the FSU shooter from traveling basket to basket for an easy layup. Concerning. It is going to be a LOOOOONG season and with our pathetic fan support even in good years I fear for the empty ferrell center.....

setshot said:

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Okie, I was one of those who thought that McClure would become a fine player by his junior and senior years when his physical problems were in his past. Why he has not done this, I can't say. If you watched him shoot as a first and second year player, the form was perfect, the rotation of the ball and the geometric arc was perfect, and he had an NBA body, with strength and sufficient quickness to get to the basket and finish there, or to pull up and take that good midrange shot that he shows occastionally. A player who averaged well over thirty points a game his senior year in high school with an excellent balance between perimeter threes and shots at the rim did not suddenly forget how to shoot and how to score.

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That's interesting you thought he had perfect form. His shooting form has always kind of bugged me. You have to see the shot straight on to see what I'm talking about but first his elbow goes off to the right (instead of closer to 90 degrees like good shooters) and then his hand goes off to the right at the end. I always thought that's what made him a streaky shooter. I was always hoping someone would help him fix his shot. Watch his shooting form 21 seconds into the video clip with the angle from his elbow to hand on the shot almost closer to 45 degrees than 90 degrees at on point. Its not always this bad though and you only really notice it from straight on.

Drew did not use his success in 2010 and 2012 to build on. Recruiting has become "projects". He is the John Morris of Baylor basketball. A nice guy who doesn't appear inspired to be elite. HIs success seems to fit the bill of 80% of the posters on this site so his job is secure as it should be.

In general. He's mostly been an observer this year comparative to what I think most think he can be.

BaylorOkie said:

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EGOTbear said:

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BaylorOkie said:

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We knew what King was 2 years ago. Hes a solid player, very streaky, and not ever going to be the leader of this team. Anyone who is feeling let down by him only has themselves to blame. There is nothing surprising about him. He will finish his senior season just like the others. We are going to see a few really good games from him and several in which he just blends in.

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You are wrong. He was hyped up from the beginning as the future big time scorer for us. Has never happened.

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No. I'm not wrong. I don't care how he was hyped. I said 2 years ago we knew what he is and I am right. After he finished his sophomore year we knew all that we were going to know. He was over hyped as a recruit and that is not his problem or mine. If you still want to hang on to that and be pissed off and disappointed then that's on you.

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Not a word out of place here.