IF the ACC indeed says no to Stanford,
and Stanford told the Big 12 they would forfeit all TV money for 2-3 years (more?),
yet would sign a GOR for all six years of the Big 12 TV contract,
and Stanford crawled over broken glass to kiss Yormark's ring --

THEN should they be accepted?

(And they would have to come without Cal-Berkeley.)

????

(IF that happened, what other program would also abase itself to give the Big 12 an even number?)

No, I don't think this scenario would happen, but why let reality get in the way??

Given that ACC agreement (reportedly) provides for an additional share for expansion with Stanford, the ACC is in a different position than the Big 12, as the Big 12 is at the mercy of FOX and ESPN as to whether it would get more money by adding Stanford as the Big 12 contract does not provide for such a share. Given that the legacy Big 12 teams are already giving up money this year and next year for the initial 4 expansion programs and given that FOX/ESPN do not seem interested in giving the Big 12 more money, it seems unlikely that there would be a scenario where the stars would align for Stanford in the Big 12.

If the ACC falls through, Stanford's trump card would be being tired to Notre Dame committing to a conference and requiring Stanford to be added with it. That seems like an increasingly likely scenario.

I started to say that saving Stanford would be like a pet rescue; so the Big 12 could raise extra money with a Go-Fund-Me page.

Then I realized that it would be more like Save-A-Tree.

Big 12 would probably take them, but it doesn't seem all that likely to happen. Bring Notre Dame as part of a package deal and put it on paper.

The Big 12 would take them but the hypothetical is meaningless because it's not going to happen. They will go independent before they will beg the Bug 12 for membership.

Really don't see a reason why the rest of the Big XII would want to incur the increased travel expenses to go out there unless Stanford agreed to no home games for anything....which then there would be no point for them to join. Hypothetical question in the OP that is beyond this galaxy.

Reverend said:

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I'm confused. The Legacy B12 teams are giving up revenue for the first four that were added? Weren't the TV deals negotiated after they were brought in?

---

Good question. The original expansion 4 start this season - 2023 - but the new deal didn't start until 2025. As a result, the legacy 8 gave up money in order to pay them for 2023 and 2024. I would like to hope that this changed with the UT/OU early exit fees, but I haven't seen a report explicitly stating that. If not, maybe that money is being used to pay the 2nd expansion 4 for 2024?

Edit: For those that don't understand what's being said in this thread, the new Big 12 deal starts in 2025, the initial expansion 4 start this year, and the Big 12 didn't get more money for them for 2023 and 2024. You're welcome.

blackie said:

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Hypothetical question in the OP that is beyond this galaxy.

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And that's why I bring it up -- to go where nobody has gone before!

OR??

I agree with several of your comments.

But I can both dream . . . and have nightmares.

I think there are already going to be some culture challenges. Bringing in so many teams that honestly just don't want to be in the Big 12 is challenge enough but bringing in Cal or Stanford violates all good sense to me.

If I was a proud Stanford alum like Elon Musk..John Steinbeck. Tiger Woods..Tom Watson.. Sandra Day O'Connor..John Elway...I'd be embarrassed by all this begging they're doing to get into a conference..it cheapens their brand... Stanford is one of the top 3 or 4 colleges in America and definitely top 10 in world.

They can go independent and be fine. Don't.cheapen your brand.

Hell no.

Let them enjoy independence or the Mountain West.

bear2be2 said:

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It would be idiotic to add Stanford for multiple reasons.

1) They would be a Texas level pain in the ass with none of the benefit (eyeballs, prestige, etc.).
2) We're already at a point where we would need more than a half billion dollars annually to keep all 16 teams at their current level in TV distributions. Adding more mouths that don't pay for themselves will all but guarantee we'll all be taking a significant cut the next round of media negotiations.
3) They make our football and men's basketball product worse.
4) They don't have fans.

---

On point #3, I remember their MBB came to Waco a couple years ago & we beat them like a JV squad.

Total domination with a final score of 86-48.

Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick tells @dpshow it’s “a complete disaster” what’s happened in college athletics. “Everybody in the industry has to take responsibility here I'm not excluding myself from that. I think the decision making lost its way in terms on the focus of the student…

— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) August 23, 2023

BearlyBeloved said:

---

IF the ACC indeed says no to Stanford,
and Stanford told the Big 12 they would forfeit all TV money for 2-3 years (more?),
yet would sign a GOR for all six years of the Big 12 TV contract,
and Stanford crawled over broken glass to kiss Yormark's ring --

THEN should they be accepted?

(And they would have to come without Cal-Berkeley.)

????

(IF that happened, what other program would also abase itself to give the Big 12 an even number?)

No, I don't think this scenario would happen, but why let reality get in the way??

---

Top to bottom might be best athletic department in country.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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Reverend said:

---

I'm confused. The Legacy B12 teams are giving up revenue for the first four that were added? Weren't the TV deals negotiated after they were brought in?

---

Good question. The original expansion 4 start this season - 2023 - but the new deal didn't start until 2025. As a result, the legacy 8 gave up money in order to pay them for 2023 and 2024. I would like to hope that this changed with the UT/OU early exit fees, but I haven't seen a report explicitly stating that. If not, maybe that money is being used to pay the 2nd expansion 4 for 2024?

Edit: For those that don't understand what's being said in this thread, the new Big 12 deal starts in 2025, the initial expansion 4 start this year, and the Big 12 didn't get more money for them for 2023 and 2024. You're welcome.

---

The early exit fees are going to the hateful 8 to make their share of the revenue (almost) whole. The Big XII could have forced UT and OU to stay in the conference an additional year, but then there would have been no exit fees and everyone would have taken a bump downward for 2 years.


---
And yes, if Stanford came begging, I believe the Big XII would likely find a way to fit them in, but they won't.

double post - blerg - I often hit quote when I mean to edit

Mitch Blood Green said:

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BearlyBeloved said:

---

IF the ACC indeed says no to Stanford,
and Stanford told the Big 12 they would forfeit all TV money for 2-3 years (more?),
yet would sign a GOR for all six years of the Big 12 TV contract,
and Stanford crawled over broken glass to kiss Yormark's ring --

THEN should they be accepted?

(And they would have to come without Cal-Berkeley.)

????

(IF that happened, what other program would also abase itself to give the Big 12 an even number?)

No, I don't think this scenario would happen, but why let reality get in the way??

---

Top to bottom might be best athletic department in country.

---

Maybe. But if they are the snobs everyone says they are, they will want nothing to do with the Big 12.

Silly hypotheticals quickly become a waste of time.

historian said:

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Silly hypotheticals quickly become a waste of time.

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Send me a bill for your time.

wongobear said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

---

Reverend said:

---

I'm confused. The Legacy B12 teams are giving up revenue for the first four that were added? Weren't the TV deals negotiated after they were brought in?

---

Good question. The original expansion 4 start this season - 2023 - but the new deal didn't start until 2025. As a result, the legacy 8 gave up money in order to pay them for 2023 and 2024. I would like to hope that this changed with the UT/OU early exit fees, but I haven't seen a report explicitly stating that. If not, maybe that money is being used to pay the 2nd expansion 4 for 2024?

Edit: For those that don't understand what's being said in this thread, the new Big 12 deal starts in 2025, the initial expansion 4 start this year, and the Big 12 didn't get more money for them for 2023 and 2024. You're welcome.

---

The early exit fees are going to the hateful 8 to make their share of the revenue (almost) whole. The Big XII could have forced UT and OU to stay in the conference an additional year, but then there would have been no exit fees and everyone would have taken a bump downward for 2 years.


---
And yes, if Stanford came begging, I believe the Big XII would likely find a way to fit them in, but they won't.

---

Oh okay. Do we know how the Big 12 is paying Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and Arizona State for 2024?

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

wongobear said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

Reverend said:

---

I'm confused. The Legacy B12 teams are giving up revenue for the first four that were added? Weren't the TV deals negotiated after they were brought in?

---

Good question. The original expansion 4 start this season - 2023 - but the new deal didn't start until 2025. As a result, the legacy 8 gave up money in order to pay them for 2023 and 2024. I would like to hope that this changed with the UT/OU early exit fees, but I haven't seen a report explicitly stating that. If not, maybe that money is being used to pay the 2nd expansion 4 for 2024?

Edit: For those that don't understand what's being said in this thread, the new Big 12 deal starts in 2025, the initial expansion 4 start this year, and the Big 12 didn't get more money for them for 2023 and 2024. You're welcome.

---

The early exit fees are going to the hateful 8 to make their share of the revenue (almost) whole. The Big XII could have forced UT and OU to stay in the conference an additional year, but then there would have been no exit fees and everyone would have taken a bump downward for 2 years.


---
And yes, if Stanford came begging, I believe the Big XII would likely find a way to fit them in, but they won't.

---

Oh okay. Do we know how the Big 12 is paying Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and Arizona State for 2024?

---

Yep, the new TV contract allowed for the addition of up to 4 power 5 schools. ESPN agreed in the contract to pay the new schools the same as the existing schools. Fox had the option to fulfill their portion for the new schools (which it seems like they are doing). If Fox had decided not to pay the additional amount to the 4 new schools then there were a couple options

1) New schools take less
2) A new media partner could be found

But those now seem to be unnecessary as the reports are that the new schools are all receiving a full share.

wongobear said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

---

wongobear said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

Reverend said:

---

I'm confused. The Legacy B12 teams are giving up revenue for the first four that were added? Weren't the TV deals negotiated after they were brought in?

---

Good question. The original expansion 4 start this season - 2023 - but the new deal didn't start until 2025. As a result, the legacy 8 gave up money in order to pay them for 2023 and 2024. I would like to hope that this changed with the UT/OU early exit fees, but I haven't seen a report explicitly stating that. If not, maybe that money is being used to pay the 2nd expansion 4 for 2024?

Edit: For those that don't understand what's being said in this thread, the new Big 12 deal starts in 2025, the initial expansion 4 start this year, and the Big 12 didn't get more money for them for 2023 and 2024. You're welcome.

---

The early exit fees are going to the hateful 8 to make their share of the revenue (almost) whole. The Big XII could have forced UT and OU to stay in the conference an additional year, but then there would have been no exit fees and everyone would have taken a bump downward for 2 years.


---
And yes, if Stanford came begging, I believe the Big XII would likely find a way to fit them in, but they won't.

---

Oh okay. Do we know how the Big 12 is paying Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and Arizona State for 2024?

---

Yep, the new TV contract allowed for the addition of up to 4 power 5 schools. ESPN agreed in the contract to pay the new schools the same as the existing schools. Fox had the option to fulfill their portion for the new schools (which it seems like they are doing). If Fox had decided not to pay the additional amount to the 4 new schools then there were a couple options

1) New schools take less
2) A new media partner could be found

But those now seem to be unnecessary as the reports are that the new schools are all receiving a full share.

---

We aren't talking about the new agreement - we are talking about 2024. The new agreement starts in 2025 and the PAC teams start in 2024 unless I'm missing something.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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wongobear said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

wongobear said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

Reverend said:

---

I'm confused. The Legacy B12 teams are giving up revenue for the first four that were added? Weren't the TV deals negotiated after they were brought in?

---

Good question. The original expansion 4 start this season - 2023 - but the new deal didn't start until 2025. As a result, the legacy 8 gave up money in order to pay them for 2023 and 2024. I would like to hope that this changed with the UT/OU early exit fees, but I haven't seen a report explicitly stating that. If not, maybe that money is being used to pay the 2nd expansion 4 for 2024?

Edit: For those that don't understand what's being said in this thread, the new Big 12 deal starts in 2025, the initial expansion 4 start this year, and the Big 12 didn't get more money for them for 2023 and 2024. You're welcome.

---

The early exit fees are going to the hateful 8 to make their share of the revenue (almost) whole. The Big XII could have forced UT and OU to stay in the conference an additional year, but then there would have been no exit fees and everyone would have taken a bump downward for 2 years.


---
And yes, if Stanford came begging, I believe the Big XII would likely find a way to fit them in, but they won't.

---

Oh okay. Do we know how the Big 12 is paying Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and Arizona State for 2024?

---

Yep, the new TV contract allowed for the addition of up to 4 power 5 schools. ESPN agreed in the contract to pay the new schools the same as the existing schools. Fox had the option to fulfill their portion for the new schools (which it seems like they are doing). If Fox had decided not to pay the additional amount to the 4 new schools then there were a couple options

1) New schools take less
2) A new media partner could be found

But those now seem to be unnecessary as the reports are that the new schools are all receiving a full share.

---

We aren't talking about the new agreement - we are talking about 2024. The new agreement starts in 2025 and the PAC teams start in 2024 unless I'm missing something.

---

I believe that this is the final academic year for the current contract, but you are right, these contracts have been talked about as ending in 2024 and starting in 2025.

Heard yesterday that ESPN wants to make sure that Stanford and Cal have a P-5 Conference to belong to. They have been kicking the can ( ESPN ) talking with Yormork and mentioning or trying to get the Big 1 to extend offers to Stanford & Cal if they haven't heard anything , no invite from the ACC.

Read an article that came out to day that said Stanford and Cal had been talking a bit with the Big 12 ,word is they are hoping to hear a determination from the ACC either by Monday or Tuesday , and IF they don't make it with the ACC , or if they hadn't heard anything by the middle of the week, they would then turn further attention to the Big 12.

BY had said we were done with expansion, that we were happy with the number we had. Stanford and Cal bring NOTHING brand wise for the Big 12, they are average football and they suck at Basketball. - the rest is non revenue sports, - -they would however get a full share as ESPN has had the clause about the possibility of paying for additional P-5 schools.

Here is the real kicker though , the article said that IF Stanford and Cal did happen to lane here in the Big 12 that Washington State & Oregon State would be coming with them, I mean Dang if that happens then basically we just merged with the PAC - -which was said would NEVER HAPPEN

Not to worried YET as I think they will get this ACC thing done or at least I hope they do - but we just have to see

We would be stupid to go to 20 by taking in the PAC 4. Cal and Stanford make some sense. The only way it would make sense is if the media partners told BY to do it and they would take care of the money. But I still think going to 20 now with those four is getting too big too fast. The locations of WSU and OrSU make those problematic for most of the rest of the conference. Hopefully the report is inaccurate or ESPN is warning the ACC they better take them.

PartyBear said:

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We would be stupid to go to 20 by taking in the PAC 4. Cal and Stanford make some sense. The only way it would make sense is if the media partners told BY to do it and they would take care of the money. But I still think going to 20 now with those four is getting too big too fast. The locations of WSU and OrSU make those problematic for most of the rest of the conference. Hopefully the report is inaccurate or ESPN is warning the ACC they better take them.

---

I sort of agree in that it would be a political mess to take any of the remaining 4. I mean Stanford and Cal made it pretty clear that they don't want to be associated with the likes of us. There would be factions within the conference.

The only possible benefit is that maaayybbeee it would give the conference some leverage when the B1G and SEC start trying to push all other conferences out of the playoff. I really do think those 2 conferences want to be the Power 2 and shut the door on the rest of us. For that reason I also want FSU and Clemson to stay in the ACC as long as possible.

Sounds like the knee crawling has began